Rare Entries DJT03 Results

[Dan Tilque]

Rare Entries DJT03 is over and the winner is "Calvin"! Runners up are
Erland and Mark Brader. Congratulations!


Dan Tilque wrote:
>
> As usual, reply only by email to dti...@frontier.com

I forgot to set the "Followup-To:" correctly, but fortunately no one
posted to either newsgroup by mistake.


>
> The reply email should only have a set of answers numbered 0 to 9. Do
> not include any of the text from this post in your reply. (Note: it's
> much easier to score the contest without intruding text, so please
> leave it off.)

Erland is (as usual) chastized for violating this rule.

> Make sure the subject line of your reply contains the string
> "DJT03".

Everyone did this. Thank you.


> Wrong answers will get a score that's 3 plus the highest score for a
> valid answer for that item.

There were surprisingly few wrong answers this time. Only 3. Good work
everyone.

Answer slates from the top three finishers:

"Calvin" Erland Mark
0. Juno 0. Juno 0. Voyager 2
1. Turkey 1. Norway 1. Iceland
2. Austria 2. Sweden 2. Finland
3. Cook Islands 3. Kosovo 3. Brazil
4. mercury 4. tellurium 4. plutonium
5. Iowa 5. Oregon 5. South Dakota
6. Legends Football League 6. MLS 6. American Hockey League

7. FIBA 7. FINA 7. FIBA
8. blue beret 8. black belt 8. Brownshirts
9. Sea of Azov 9. Sea of Azov 9. Sea of Galilee



0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
----------------------------
72 "Calvin" 2 3 2 1 1 1 1 3 1 2
144 Erland Sommarskog 2 6 3 1 2 1 1 1 1 2
192 Mark Brader 1 4 4 2 1 1 1 3 1 2
288 Sam Buttrey 1 4 3 2 2 2 1 3 1 1
288 Joshua Kreitzer 1 6 2 2 2 1 1 3 1 2
648 FatPhil 3 4 1 1 1 3 2 3 1 3
768 Bruce Bowler 3 1 2 2 2 1 4 2 1 4
1728 gerson 3 6 2 2 1 2 2 3 1 2
5184 Björn Lundin W 6 4 2 2 1 1 3 1 3
5184 Stephen Perry W 3 2 1 2 3 4 3 1 2
6912 Dan Blum 3 6 3 2 2 2 2 2 1 4
6912 Lieven Marchand 1 3 4 1 2 W 2 3 2 4
9216 Peter Smyth 3 4 2 2 2 2 4 2 2 3
13824 Ted Schuerzinger 3 6 4 1 2 3 4 2 1 4



>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> 0. Name a spacecraft that has visited Jupiter, either flyby or orbit.

3 Pioneer 11
3 Ulysses
2 Juno
1 Galileo
1 New Horizons
1 Voyager 1
1 Voyager 2


Wrong answers
Pioneer 12
Rosetta

All the valid answers were given except Cassini-Huygens and Pioneer 10.
There never waa Pioneer 12 and Rosetta flew past Mars, but not Jupiter.


The interesting thing about the next two questions is that the EU and
NATO have the same number of members: 28. That means the number of valid
answers for each question is the same: 6 as it happens.

>
> 1. Name a country that is a member of NATO but is not in the EU.

6 Norway
4 Iceland
3 Turkey
1 USA

Lots of love for Norway, but none for Albania and Canada. Not sure what
that says about anything.

>
> 2. Name a country that is in the EU but is not a member of NATO.

4 Finland
3 Sweden
2 Austria
2 Cyprus
2 Ireland
1 Malta

All valid answers were given. Nordic countries were in favor in both
questions, for some reason.

>
> 3. Name a country whose flag has more than 5 stars on it.

2 Australia
2 Brazil
2 Tajikistan
2 Uzbekistan
1 Cook Islands
1 Dominica
1 Grenada
1 Kosovo
1 USA
1 Venezuela

Very even spread of answers. As far as I can tell, there are only three
valid answers not given: Bosnia, Cape Verde, and Tuvalu.

I'm sure there's going to be some objection to the Cook Islands being
accepted as valid. While it's true that they are in a free association
with New Zealand so that New Zealand handles their foreign affairs, they
seem to be doing lots of foreign relations on their own. Among other
things, having diplomatic relations in their own name with 43 countries
and being a member of several international bodies on an equal basis
with other countries. Based on that, I conclude they are, for all
intents and purposes, an independent country.

>
> 4. Name a chemical element that was named after a Solar System body.

2 cerium
2 helium
2 neptunium
2 selenium
2 tellurium
1 mercury
1 palladium
1 plutonium
1 uranium

Again, another very even spread of answers. I believe all valid answers
were given.

>
> 5. Name a US state whose future territory the Lewis and Clark
> Expedition travelled in between 14 May 1804 and 23 Sept 1806.

3 Nebraska
2 Kansas
2 North Dakota
1 Idaho
1 Illinois
1 Iowa
1 Montana
1 Oregon
1 South Dakota

Wrong answer
Louisiana

Only two valid answers were not given: Missouri and Washington.

Some may wonder about Illinois. Before the expedition started, they set
up camp on the Illinois side of the Mississippi River, because the
transfer of the Louisiana Purchase hadn't been completed yet. So that
was where they left from on the first day of the trip.


>
> 6. Name a professional sports league that currently has at least one
> team in the US and at least one in Canada.

4 Major League Baseball (=American League)
2 National Basketball Association
2 National Lacrosse League
1 American Association of Independent Professional Baseball
1 American Hockey League
1 Legends Football League
1 Major League Soccer
1 National Hockey League
1 Northwest League (baseball minor league)

I'm sure that there's other valid answers. This was one question where I
didn't make a list of them beforehand.

I accepted American League as the same as MLB. Technically, it's a
subdivision of MLB, not an actual league (despite its name), but I was
feeling generous. No doubt some other scorer would have rejected it.

The Legends Football League is a bit questionable, although I accepted
it. It's a league playing 7-person American Football. The players are
women and their "uniforms" are ... well let's say that their shoulder
pads cover more of their body than the rest of the uniform. It used to
be called the Lingerie Football League. The reason it's questionable is
that the US teams play a separate schedule than the Canadian ones do. In
fact, they don't even play during the same time of the year, I think.
However, it's a single organization, so I'm accepting it.


>
> 7. Name an international sports federation whose usual acronym is 4
> letters beginning with FI--. The federation must be the highest level
> organization for its sport. The sport must be athletic in nature, so
> board games, card games, etc. are right out.

3 FIBA International Basketball Federation
3 FIFA International Federation of Association Football
3 FIPV International Federation of Basque Pelota
2 FISA International Rowing Federation
2 FIVB International Volleyball Federation
1 FINA International Swimming Federation

Another where I don't know all the valid answers. I imagine there may be
others.

>
> 8. Give a two-part compound term which has an idiomatic meaning
> different from the literal meaning of the words. The first part of the
> term must be a color and the second must be an article of clothing,
> headgear, or footwear. For example, if the question had asked for a fish
> instead of clothing, then "red herring" would be a valid answer.

2 black hat
1 black belt
1 blue beret
1 brownshirts
1 green belt
1 green beret (=green basker)
1 grey hat
1 pink collar
1 purple helmet
1 red hat
1 red shirt
1 white shoe
1 White Stockings

I expected this extreme spread on this question. There's more valid
answers out there. For instance, a bluestocking is an old term for a
female intellectual.

"Basker" is Swedish for "beret". I accepted it because not all the
entrants have English as their first language. Some other definitions:

"blue beret" is a term for UN Peacekeepers
"grey hat" is a non-malicious computer hacker
"purple helmet" is a term for the head of an engorged male sexual organ
"white shoe" is a term refering to "leading professional services firms
in the United States" (to quote Wikipedia), especially older ones in New
York and Boston
"White Stockings" is the name of the Chicago White Sox when they first
moved to Chicago

>
> 9. Give the name of a body of water whose English name is of the form
> "Sea of Xxxx", where Xxxx can be a name of any length.

4 Sea of Okhotsk
3 Sea of Marmara
2 Sea of Azov
2 Sea of Crete
2 Sea of Galilee
1 Sea of Chiloé

The only one I know of that was missed is the Sea of Japan. But it's
possible there are others.


Thank you to every one who participated. It was actually a slightly
better turnout than I expected. I appreciate all your contributions.


--
Dan Tilque

[Mark Brader]

Dan Tilque:

> I forgot to set the "Followup-To:" correctly, but fortunately no one
> posted to either newsgroup by mistake.

You're accusing Lieven Marchand of doing it on purpose?
--
Mark Brader "There are three rules for writing the novel.
Toronto Unfortunately no one knows what they are."
m...@vex.net -- Maugham

[Mark Brader]

Dan Tilque:

> > 3. Name a country whose flag has more than 5 stars on it.

...

> I'm sure there's going to be some objection to the Cook Islands being
> accepted as valid.

I duly object.

> > 6. Name a professional sports league that currently has at least one
> > team in the US and at least one in Canada.

> ...
> The Legends Football League is a bit questionable... [because]

> the US teams play a separate schedule than the Canadian ones do.

I think it's questionable for a more fundamental reason: as far as I can
tell from the Internet, their Canadian branch no longer exists.

> Thank you to every one who participated.

Thank you for running the contest.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Close your tag and give it a rest, Jason"
m...@vex.net | --FoxTrot (Bill Amend)

My text in this article is in the public domain.

[gerson]

> "Mark Brader" wrote in message news:AbadnWOeYOVrnw3K...@giganews.com...

> Dan Tilque:
> > > 3. Name a country whose flag has more than 5 stars on it.
> ...
> > I'm sure there's going to be some objection to the Cook Islands being
> > accepted as valid.

> I duly object.

Me too, it's not a country !,

and Lievian Marchand's answer to qn 7 is wrong (are there others ? )

and thanks lots to Dan Tilque for the contest,

[Dan Tilque]

Mark Brader wrote:
> Dan Tilque:
>> I forgot to set the "Followup-To:" correctly, but fortunately no one
>> posted to either newsgroup by mistake.
>
> You're accusing Lieven Marchand of doing it on purpose?

Did not see any such posting. Perhaps he cancelled it before I saw it.

--
Dan Tilque

[Dan Tilque]

gerson wrote:
>
>
>> "Mark Brader" wrote in message
>> news:AbadnWOeYOVrnw3K...@giganews.com...
>
>> Dan Tilque:
>> > > 3. Name a country whose flag has more than 5 stars on it.
>> ...
>> > I'm sure there's going to be some objection to the Cook Islands
>> being > accepted as valid.
>
>> I duly object.
>
> Me too, it's not a country !,

In my view, such an assertion does not pass the duck test. You'll have
to come up with a better argument.

>
> and Lievian Marchand's answer to qn 7 is wrong (are there others ? )

# 7 was about the international sports organization. He answered FIFA.
I'm going to guess that you're objecting because he gave the acronym and
not the full name. Is that right or is there something else wrong with it?


--
Dan Tilque

[Dan Tilque]

Mark Brader wrote:
> Dan Tilque:

>> > 6. Name a professional sports league that currently has at least one
>> > team in the US and at least one in Canada.
>
>> ...
>> The Legends Football League is a bit questionable... [because]
>> the US teams play a separate schedule than the Canadian ones do.
>
> I think it's questionable for a more fundamental reason: as far as I can
> tell from the Internet, their Canadian branch no longer exists.

Hmm.. yes, I can't find any evidence that they played this year, and
probably not last year either. Any one have any evidence otherwise?

--
Dan Tilque

[gerson]

> Dan Tilque

> > Me too, it's not a country !,

(about the Cook Islands)

> In my view, such an assertion does not pass the duck test. You'll have
> to come up with a better argument.

Oh, not an argument. It doesn't appear in the list of
independent states of the world at
|
Independent States in the World - US Department of State
www.state.gov/s/inr/rls/4250.htm

That is, If you can't trust the government, who can you trust?

It does appear in the CIA factbook as a country to search for, but so do
Baker Island, Christmas Island, Cocos (Keeling) Islands, French Polynesia,
Guam, Howland Island, Jarvis Island, and indeed Johnston Atoll

> >
> > and Lievian Marchand's answer to qn 7 is wrong (are there others ? )

> # 7 was about the international sports organization. He answered FIFA.
> I'm going to guess that you're objecting because he gave the acronym and

> not the full name. Is that right ...

Yes, yes, of course, I mean you said to "name an" (etc.), and an acronym isn't
a name really.

(although)
Collins dictionary says a "name" is a "word or term", and says that
a "term" is "a name, expression, or word used for some particular thing"

but on the other hand, it says for "acronym" "a pronounceable name made
up of a series of initial letters or parts of words ..."

Somewhat contradictory this is, - But the way the question
is put, it's asking for something other than the acronym.

[Dan Tilque]

gerson wrote:
>
>> > > and Lievian Marchand's answer to qn 7 is wrong (are there others ? )
>
>> # 7 was about the international sports organization. He answered FIFA.
>> I'm going to guess that you're objecting because he gave the acronym
>> and not the full name. Is that right ...
>
> Yes, yes, of course, I mean you said to "name an" (etc.), and an acronym
> isn't
> a name really.
>

One thing I learned in the last Rare Entry contest I ran was that if I
want the answers in a specific form, I have to spell it out quite
explicitly. More so than just "name an". In this case, I didn't care
what form it was in, so I didn't do that. And not surprisingly, I got
answers in several forms: acronyms, full name in English, full name in
French, and even two of these. I accepted them all.

This wasn't the only question that kind of thing happened on. The same
thing happened for the sports league question (except no French names).
For the last question, some gave the full Sea of Xxxx and some just gave
Xxxx. Again, I accepted them all.


As far as the Cook Is. goes, I'll reconsider, but am not likely to
change my mind.

--
Dan Tilque

[Ted S.]

On 07/20/2016 10:23 PM, gerson wrote:
> Oh, not an argument. It doesn't appear in the list of
> independent states of the world at |
> Independent States in the World - US Department of State
> www.state.gov/s/inr/rls/4250.htm
> That is, If you can't trust the government, who can you trust?

Notes 3 and 6 could be taken to imply that Taiwan, the other of the two
Chinas, is not an independent country. Which is of course nonsense.

Of course, I finished in last place. So what do I know? :-)

--
Ted Schuerzinger
Catskill Mtns, NY, USA

[Björn Lundin]

On 2016-07-20 22:20, Dan Tilque wrote:
> Rare Entries DJT03 is over and the winner is "Calvin"! Runners up are
> Erland and Mark Brader. Congratulations!
>
>>

>> 0. Name a spacecraft that has visited Jupiter, either flyby or orbit.
>
> 3 Pioneer 11
> 3 Ulysses
> 2 Juno
> 1 Galileo
> 1 New Horizons
> 1 Voyager 1
> 1 Voyager 2
>
>
> Wrong answers
> Pioneer 12
> Rosetta
>
> All the valid answers were given except Cassini-Huygens and Pioneer 10.
> There never waa Pioneer 12 and Rosetta flew past Mars, but not Jupiter.
>

I say that Rosetta did fly by Jupiter, and so does Wikipedia.


<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_(spacecraft)#Mission_firsts>

"""
The Rosetta mission planned to achieve many historic firsts.[34]

On its way to comet 67P, Rosetta passed through the main asteroid belt,
and made the first European close encounter with several of these
primitive objects. Rosetta was the first spacecraft to fly close to
Jupiter's orbit using solar cells as its main power source.

"""


--
Björn

[Björn Lundin]

On 2016-07-21 12:52, Björn Lundin wrote:

>> All the valid answers were given except Cassini-Huygens and Pioneer 10.
>> There never waa Pioneer 12 and Rosetta flew past Mars, but not Jupiter.
>>
>
> I say that Rosetta did fly by Jupiter, and so does Wikipedia.

Hmm. I take that back. Only Wikipedia says that.
unfortuantly not ESA
<http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/Rosetta/The_long_trek>



--
Björn

[Mark Brader]

Björn Lundin:
> I say that Rosetta did fly by Jupiter, and so does Wikipedia...

> Rosetta was the first spacecraft to fly close to
> Jupiter's orbit using solar cells as its main power source.

That does not say it flew by Jupiter.
--
Mark Brader | "My mind is like a steel trap; it snaps closed
Toronto | and is almost impossible to pry open"
m...@vex.net | --Michael Wares

[gerson]

> "Dan Tilque" wrote

> One thing I learned in the last Rare Entry contest I ran was that if I want the answers in a specific form, I have to spell it out

> quite explicitly. ...

And I thought I was being so clever with "archery", and now I've really been prompted. Like about words, and their meanings, and
who's an authority. Anyhow, if or when you set another one, I'll be trying to wiggle inside anticipating your judgments.
Anticipating the setter's judgments has always been part of the game, although, I think, nevertheless, that there ought to to be
some sorts of constraints. There ought to be some set of rules, otherwise people are like to be left floundering! "Not that anyone
cares". [hilarity]. Chuck Lorre for president, I say. Hazel nuts in May?

Seeing Ted's message, I say Ted, "You've got a score, it's there, it's there!" - In past Rare Entries competitions some of us
haven't been given a score at all. We've been told it's because it's too big whatever, but I think well, yes, but it's maybe really
because really big scores don't fit in the column width. However, and by the way, not knowing such scores makes the publishees have
to suffer horrible and perpetual ignominy.

fake sig:
Apologie. Read my website, and you'll find out something you didn't know.

I'm a maverick now, sorry, at the moment. I'm breaking rules, including and possibly only at the least, my own.

p.s.
The caterpillar says "the word means what i mean it to mean"

Stuart talking to Sheldon at Sheldon's door (Gradations of Wrong) about tomatoes vegetables and a suspension bridge, which
|
is about "qualifying an absolute", you *can* qualify an absolute, you can say "quite unique" or "very unique" or "a bit unique" or
"not that unique really" or indeed "not unique at all", and so on, and so on, because saying things like these conveys meaning,
which is what language is about in the long run, see Stephen Pinker "The Language Instinct", one of the best books I ever read.
(Which in the matter of qualifying absolutes has nothing to say). He writes really well, and I was quite impressed. Or the other way
round.

[Björn Lundin]

On 2016-07-21 18:17, Mark Brader wrote:
> Björn Lundin:
>> I say that Rosetta did fly by Jupiter, and so does Wikipedia...
>
>> Rosetta was the first spacecraft to fly close to
>> Jupiter's orbit using solar cells as its main power source.
>
> That does not say it flew by Jupiter.

No, I realize that now

--
--
Björn

[Dan Tilque]

Ted S. wrote:
> On 07/20/2016 10:23 PM, gerson wrote:
>> Oh, not an argument. It doesn't appear in the list of
>> independent states of the world at |
>> Independent States in the World - US Department of State
>> www.state.gov/s/inr/rls/4250.htm
>> That is, If you can't trust the government, who can you trust?
>
> Notes 3 and 6 could be taken to imply that Taiwan, the other of the two
> Chinas, is not an independent country. Which is of course nonsense.

That's a good point. The situation between Taiwan and Cook Is. has some
parallels. Neither is in the UN and both are recognized by only a
minority of the other governments in the world. So why is one a country
and one not?

I'm still wavering on this one. I'd like to see what Calvin (who
submitted it) says about it. He hasn't joined the discussion yet.

--
Dan Tilque

[Erland Sommarskog]

gerson (ger...@bigpond.net.au) writes:
> Yes, yes, of course, I mean you said to "name an" (etc.), and an acronym
> isn't a name really.
>
> (although)
> Collins dictionary says a "name" is a "word or term", and says that
> a "term" is "a name, expression, or word used for some particular thing"
>
> but on the other hand, it says for "acronym" "a pronounceable name made
> up of a series of initial letters or parts of words ..."
>
> Somewhat contradictory this is, - But the way the question
> is put, it's asking for something other than the acronym.

Disclosure: I entered both FINA and MLS.

I think that abbreviation which is commonly used, certainly can serve as
a name. Ask people what the name is of international association for
football, they will say "Fifa". If you ask them to read out the
abbreviation, very few will do it correctly.

I would suggest the same is true for most FI* organisations.

For MLS or NHL it is possibly a little different, since people in this
case at least know what the abbreviations stand for in general. Then again,
I would suggest that MLS is far more often referred to that way then the
I full name. On the other hand, if someone had entered PL for Premier
League (and it had been a valid answer), you would have had a case. I don't
see PL very often, and the same is true for.

Anyway, for personal reasons I'm a little thrilled about what the final
verdict will be on that Legends Football League. But we'll see.


--
Erland Sommarskog, Stockholm, esq...@sommarskog.se

[Lieven Marchand]

I cancelled it but that's been hit-or-miss since the beginning of
usenet.

--
Although the invention of computer science has presented several inconveniences
to mankind - ask ordinary Iraqis what they think of the computers on a cruise
missile -, it offers a great advantage to mathematical pedagogy: a proof is
totally correct if a suitably programmed computer could understand it. Godement

[Dan Tilque]

I'm tired of waiting for Calvin's input about the two items (Legends
Football and Cook Is.) and have decided that they are both wrong. I
waffled back and forth on the Cook Is., but decided that since I didn't
give a new definition of "country", Mark's rules will be in effect. In
future games, I may write a new rule that includes more countries, not
just the Cook Is. but several others such as Somaliland.

The new winner is Erland, with Mark as runner up and a tie between Sam
Buttrey and Joshua for third. Congratulations!

Answer slates from the top finishers:

Erland Mark
0. Juno 0. Voyager 2
1. Norway 1. Iceland
2. Sweden 2. Finland
3. Kosovo 3. Brazil
4. tellurium 4. plutonium

5. Oregon 5. South Dakota

6. MLS 6. American Hockey League

7. FINA 7. FIBA

8. black belt 8. Brownshirts

9. Sea of Azov 9. Sea of Galilee

Sam Buttrey Joshua Kreitzer
0: New Horizons 0. Voyager 1
1: Iceland 1. Norway
2: Sweden 2. Cyprus
3: Brazil 3. Tajikistan
4: Selenium 4. cerium
5: North Dakota 5. Illinois
6: Northwest League 6. AAIPB
7: FIPV 7. FIPV
8: Pink collar 8. white shoe
9: Sea of Chiloe 9. Sea of Crete

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
----------------------------

144 Erland Sommarskog 2 6 3 1 2 1 1 1 1 2
192 Mark Brader 1 4 4 2 1 1 1 3 1 2
288 Sam Buttrey 1 4 3 2 2 2 1 3 1 1
288 Joshua Kreitzer 1 6 2 2 2 1 1 3 1 2
648 FatPhil 3 4 1 1 1 3 2 3 1 3
768 Bruce Bowler 3 1 2 2 2 1 4 2 1 4
1728 gerson 3 6 2 2 1 2 2 3 1 2

2520 "Calvin" 2 3 2 W 1 1 W 3 1 2

5184 Björn Lundin W 6 4 2 2 1 1 3 1 3
5184 Stephen Perry W 3 2 1 2 3 4 3 1 2
6912 Dan Blum 3 6 3 2 2 2 2 2 1 4
6912 Lieven Marchand 1 3 4 1 2 W 2 3 2 4
9216 Peter Smyth 3 4 2 2 2 2 4 2 2 3
13824 Ted Schuerzinger 3 6 4 1 2 3 4 2 1 4





--

Dan Tilque

[Dan Tilque]

Forgot to change the Subject line.

[Erland Sommarskog]

Dan Tilque (dti...@frontier.com) writes:
> The new winner is Erland, with Mark as runner up and a tie between Sam
> Buttrey and Joshua for third. Congratulations!
>

Amazing! I think it's the first time I win one of these. So this is really
a rare entry!

[swp]

where's the like button? :-)

swp

[Calvin]

It's your call. I'm fine with whatever you decide.

cheers,
calvin