[FIST] Deck and GenCon stuff
Joshua Duffin
play-by-play of the Throne War finals up now:
http://www.shadowfist.com/tournaments/gencon2000_report.shtml
and
http://www.shadowfist.com/tournaments/gencon2000_pbp.shtml
as well as those lovely pictorials.
But they haven't posted the decklists. So here's the
one I used, with a few comments and such.
"Delicious Demons"
sites:
5 Cave Network
4 Whirlpool of Blood
2 Möbius Gardens
1 Hall of Brilliance
1 Imperial Palace (never got the combo out)
bobos:
5 Sinister Priest
5 Palace Guard (these are awesome!)
3 Earth Poisoner (this guy rocks too)
hitters and other characters:
1 Eater of Fortune (never actually played, but
the theory's good)
4 Evil Twin (yeah, why not)
3 Underworld Tracker (freaking excellent, though he
spent more time threatening to
come back than actually coming
back)
3 Two Hundred Knives of Pain (didn't end up seeing
much play, just cause
I didn't draw them)
1 Four Burning Fists (I like him, but he is perhaps a
little *too* scary)
1 Demon Emperor (nice)
1 Thing with a 1000 Tongues (saw play once in, umm,
eight games - but I did win
that one...)
1 Gao Zhang (new) (he is *amazing* if you have some
Pawns to back him up. won the only
game I played him in, too.)
events & edges:
3 Glimpse of the Abyss (I think I played this once...)
5 Die!!! (really great, used it all the time)
1 Infernal Pact (never got to use it, but it sounds good)
3 Inauspicious Return (obviously brilliant with Die!!!;
even more might've been better)
2 Tortured Memories (solid but didn't do anything really
amazing for me, I think)
3 Discerning Fire (I like this a lot, but didn't get to
use it much at all)
2 The Hungry (probably makes you a *much* too obvious
target in a multiplayer tournament; rarely
ended up playing them)
The moral of the story is, Cave Networks are good.
This is actually somewhat similar to Brad Solberg's
"Blood&Destruction" deck, based on Caves and Bloody
Hordes and Evil Twins, except that I was using the
new 3-cost Lotus characters instead of the self-
reinforcing Bloody Hordes. Plus my hitters aren't
bobos (as Hordes are), so I used more 1-cost bobos.
And no support faction. OK, so what the decks have
in common is mostly Caves and Lotus Demons.
In the finals, I blame Kronengold for me not winning.
;-) Actually, in retrospect (and looking at the play-
by-play), it's obvious that Steve Valladolid (playing
an Ascended/Architects "Juicer" variant) was building
up a much stronger power/site base (with those Family
Estates) than the rest of us, but avoided being taken
down a notch or three because David Smith (playing a
mono-Jammer new-good-stuff deck) and I kept threatening
to win and thus had to stop each other. Joshua
Kronengold (playing his "Walk Softly" mono-Dragons big-
hitters/Brawls/NYMUsMad deck) had also avoided being
attacked much early on because he didn't play a character
until his third turn (a Stunt Man, which had to Die!!!
when it attacked me), and then also didn't play any on
his fourth or fifth turns (adding Feng Shui instead).
In fact, the next thing he played was the Queen of
Iciness, on his seventh turn, which attacked, but did
not get a Charmed Life, and thus died in Steve's first
Neutron Bomb, which he followed up with an Adrienne Hart
who seized a stolen Stone Garden from me. (I probably
should have burned that Stone Garden, but I was paranoid
about Steve having Bites the whole game.)
So then when Steve went for a winning attack on his
eighth turn, Joshua brought the Queen out on a Golden
Comeback, which popped both my Underworld Trackers
out as well. But, getting greedy, Joshua declined
to intercept Adrienne Hart with the Queen, forcing me
to intercept with both my Trackers. Sadly, Steve had
an Imprison for one Tracker, which kept his attack
from failing, and then he dropped another Bomb to send
the Queen right back to the netherworld, brought out
Shinobu Yashida, and won at my site.
In short, it's all Kronengold's fault. ;-) Except
that we all should have been paying more attention
to Steve. To whom congratulations for being the
sneaky one, which is always the best way to win. ;-)
Z-Man still has no news as to what Steve will ask for,
or for which faction, but apparently they'll let us
know when he decides.
Josh
another day, another fist
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
james gorham
Thanks for the deck,congrats bud!!
Wish the finalists for the 1v1 and the other multi player finalists would
post theors(hint,hint)
Later,
Jamie
Joshua Duffin <jt...@cornell.edu> wrote in message
news:8o0nks$iuh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Joshua Kronengold
james gorham <jgro...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Wish the finalists for the 1v1 and the other multi player finalists would
>post theors(hint,hint)
But...that would require writing mine down -again-. Better to wait for
someone else to do the dirty work.
And yeah, it was all my fault...except that as the weakest player by far, "got
greedy" equates to "was trying to get into the game, and for some reason
though someone else might have saved up stoppers".
--
Joshua Kronengold (mn...@io.com) |\ _,,,--,,_ ,)
---^---- /,`.-'`' -, ;-;;'
/\\ "What part of "Prhrhrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" |,4- ) )-,_ ) /\
-/-\\\-- didn't you understand?" '---''(_/--' (_/-'
Joshua Duffin
mn...@fnord.io.com (Joshua Kronengold) wrote:
> In article <8o7kgb$r84$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>,
> james gorham <jgro...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >Wish the finalists for the 1v1 and the other multi player finalists
would
> >post theors(hint,hint)
>
> But...that would require writing mine down -again-. Better to wait
for
> someone else to do the dirty work.
>
> And yeah, it was all my fault...except that as the weakest player by
far, "got
> greedy" equates to "was trying to get into the game, and for some
reason
> though someone else might have saved up stoppers".
Well, yeah.
But there are no Jammers stoppers. Except maybe
Weird Science, which would not have helped here.
There could have been an Orbital Laser Strike,
but there wasn't.
I could have had a Die!!!, but that's no good
after a Neutron Bomb. Likewise Discerning Fire.
And Steve probably *did* have more stoppers, but
he wasn't going to play them against himself. ;-)
In theory, Z-Man does have our decklists and (I
think) plans to post them at some point. Hard to
say when that might be, though; everybody there
has day jobs too.
Also, apparently the writeup for the mano-a-mano
tourney got lost, so the decklists might've been
too. Jan Malina (1st) and Andrew Davidson (2nd)
should be able to post 'em, though...
Tor Swanson (3rd) was playing an Ascended deck
that I lent him. But I don't have a decklist
for it, and he hasn't returned it yet (and doesn't
have web/news access) so it may be a few days yet
before I can post that one. Don't know who came
in 4th.
Josh
not the big man now
Joshua Kronengold
Joshua Duffin <jt...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>> And yeah, it was all my fault...except that as the weakest player by
>> far, "got greedy" equates to "was trying to get into the game, and for some
>> reason though someone else might have saved up stoppers".
>Weird Science, which would not have helped here.
>There could have been an Orbital Laser Strike,
>but there wasn't.
uh-huh. Orbital Laser Strike is nice for this purpose. So is Satilite
Intelligence, though I don't remember whether you had a non-feng-shui. And,
of course, there are lots and lots of -site- stoppers. Which one would expect
the Jammers to play, considering.
Basically, I didn't know anybody's decklist, and I certainly didn't know that
>I could have had a Die!!!, but that's no good
>after a Neutron Bomb. Likewise Discerning Fire.
Well, since I didn't know your decklist, you -could- have had a Tortured
Memory or a shattering fire, or, for that matter a Reburial to respond to the
Bomb with (though while I'm sure you could have wiped out half of Steve's
resources, I'm not at all certain you could have killed the right ones).
>And Steve probably *did* have more stoppers, but
>he wasn't going to play them against himself. ;-)
Maybe -- too my memory he was pretty tapped out (or he would have just zapped
-both- your defenders and not worried about bombing).
>not the big man now
Josh -- nor. :)
Joshua Duffin
mn...@fnord.io.com (Joshua Kronengold) wrote:
> In article <8odu8g$9c4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> Joshua Duffin <jt...@cornell.edu> wrote:
> >But there are no Jammers stoppers. Except maybe
> >Weird Science, which would not have helped here.
> >There could have been an Orbital Laser Strike,
> >but there wasn't.
>
> uh-huh. Orbital Laser Strike is nice for this purpose. So is
Satilite
> Intelligence, though I don't remember whether you had a non-feng-
shui. And,
> of course, there are lots and lots of -site- stoppers. Which one
would expect
> the Jammers to play, considering.
Ah, and Nuked, which could have worked. 75%
chance, at least.
David seemed to be using more Petroglyphs than
things that could be Petroglyphed... if any.
Don't think I had any non-FS out at the time, no.
> Basically, I didn't know anybody's decklist, and I certainly didn't
know that
>
> >I could have had a Die!!!, but that's no good
> >after a Neutron Bomb. Likewise Discerning Fire.
>
> Well, since I didn't know your decklist, you -could- have had a
Tortured
> Memory or a shattering fire, or, for that matter a Reburial to
respond to the
> Bomb with (though while I'm sure you could have wiped out half of
Steve's
> resources, I'm not at all certain you could have killed the right
ones).
Oh yeah, I forgot about that - I could have had
a Tortured Memories too; I was playing 2 of 'em.
Shattering Fire and Reburial didn't make the cut.
I hate drawing Hackers...
> >And Steve probably *did* have more stoppers, but
> >he wasn't going to play them against himself. ;-)
>
> Maybe -- too my memory he was pretty tapped out (or he would have
just zapped
> -both- your defenders and not worried about bombing).
Yes, that would make sense, wouldn't it?
You know, I'd like to see his decklist, too...
someday our webmaster will come.
Josh
when there's something going wrong
you must zap it
Steven Horton
> Memory or a shattering fire, or, for that matter a Reburial to respond to the
> Bomb with (though while I'm sure you could have wiped out half of Steve's
> resources, I'm not at all certain you could have killed the right ones).
Inauspicious Reburial doesn't work that way anymore.
Spending power and resources to play a card is part of the initiation, and
as such can't be affected by responses that remove resources from the
pool.
Responding to a Orbital Laser Strike with a Reburial still works, cause
the 1<TECH> is part of the intiation, but the X is part of the resolution.
I know it's in the new rulebook somewhere, I don't have it with me...
-Steve
Joshua Kronengold
Steven Horton <sho...@expert.cc.purdue.edu> wrote:
>> Well, since I didn't know your decklist, you -could- have had a Tortured
>> Memory or a shattering fire, or, for that matter a Reburial to respond to the
>> Bomb with (though while I'm sure you could have wiped out half of Steve's
>> resources, I'm not at all certain you could have killed the right ones).
>Inauspicious Reburial doesn't work that way anymore.
They way you think it worked? It never did.
What -I- was describing was Reburying in response to the Bomb to deny the
player resources to play followup characters (so as to make another attack).
The player will still have resources from the characters on the table that are
about to die, but nothing else.
Of course, one could respond to the reburrial by playing characters,
but said characters would get smoked in the Bomb.
>Responding to a Orbital Laser Strike with a Reburial still works, cause
>the 1<TECH> is part of the intiation, but the X is part of the resolution.
>I know it's in the new rulebook somewhere, I don't have it with me...
This is incorrect unless the new rulebook broke the timing rules --
traditionally, effects count on generation, not resolution.
Joshua Duffin
100...@expert.cc.purdue.edu>,
Steven Horton <sho...@expert.cc.purdue.edu> wrote:
> > Well, since I didn't know your decklist, you -could- have had a
Tortured
> > Memory or a shattering fire, or, for that matter a Reburial to
respond to the
> > Bomb with (though while I'm sure you could have wiped out half of
Steve's
> > resources, I'm not at all certain you could have killed the right
ones).
>
> Inauspicious Reburial doesn't work that way anymore.
initiation, and
> as such can't be affected by responses that remove resources from the
> pool.
You're right, but Inauspicious Reburial never worked
that way (meaning to cancel the Bomb itself).
I think Mr. Kronengold meant that I could (theoretically)
have Buried all (or most) of Steve's Ascended resources,
which would have prevented him from playing a Shinobu
Yashida to follow up the Bomb.
> Responding to a Orbital Laser Strike with a Reburial still works,
cause
> the 1<TECH> is part of the intiation, but the X is part of the
resolution.
Yep, that does work.
Josh
almost like a rulemonger
Steven Horton
> >> Memory or a shattering fire, or, for that matter a Reburial to respond to the
> >> Bomb with (though while I'm sure you could have wiped out half of Steve's
> >> resources, I'm not at all certain you could have killed the right ones).
> >Inauspicious Reburial doesn't work that way anymore.
>
Whoa! OK, I misinterpreted your statements above. No need to get snippy
about it.
Just out of curiosity, why would it matter what characters were hit with
the Reburial? Which are the "right" characters? Almost every Ascended
gives one ascended resource; a couple of the Architects give tech, but I
don't think Steve was playing any of them. Did you mean the hypothetical
Reburial might have hit all Ascended or all Architect characters,
preventing a heavy hitter from appearing from one faction?
If so, I suppose if someone had Reburied several Ascended, Steve wouldn't
have played his Ascended guy after the Bomb went off and won the game...
hypothetically.
-Steve
Jan Malina
Joshua Duffin wrote:
> > Well, since I didn't know your decklist, you -could- have had a
> Tortured
> > Memory or a shattering fire, or, for that matter a Reburial to
> respond to the
> > Bomb with (though while I'm sure you could have wiped out half of
> Steve's
> > resources, I'm not at all certain you could have killed the right
> ones).
>
> Oh yeah, I forgot about that - I could have had
> a Tortured Memories too; I was playing 2 of 'em.
> Shattering Fire and Reburial didn't make the cut.
> I hate drawing Hackers...
>
> > >And Steve probably *did* have more stoppers, but
> > >he wasn't going to play them against himself. ;-)
> >
> > Maybe -- too my memory he was pretty tapped out (or he would have
> just zapped
> > -both- your defenders and not worried about bombing).
>
> Yes, that would make sense, wouldn't it?
>
> You know, I'd like to see his decklist, too...
> someday our webmaster will come.
>
> Josh
>
He had stopage in the fact that he did have a festival circle that he
could have used and an operation killdear in hand if I am not mistaken
but Steve will have to correct me as I was distracted slightly. I have
the decklist for the deck seeing as it was built by me and another bay
area fister named Ken Ho and I lent it to Steve to play with. If you
want to see it now shoot me a mail as I dislike posting decklists because
it leads to copying of decks such as in Magic. The reason the report for
the Big Man turney was not in is because it was never recorded to my
knowledge. I gave them a list for my deck and I think I could give a
fairly accurate discription of the event if people are interested.
Anyway anyone in the Bay Area or willing to make a drive there is going
to be a demo/gathering of fisters at BallPark Game Center in San
Francisco on 9th Ave. and Judha. Call the store at 415-759-5363 for
directions if you want them. Hope to see you there,
Jan Malina
Connie
the new rulebook. Also 4.3.1 Resources Revisited pg. 31. I think this may
address the issue best. Below is copy of what it says:
You only check for the correct number of resources when you generate an
effect. If for some reason you lose resources before your effect resolves,
that in and of itself doesn't cancel your effect. Also, resource provisions
from Characters and Sites are in your resource pool as soon as the card
enters play, so you may start using those resources right away (by
generating an effect in response that uses those new
resources, for example).
Hope this helps and doesn't just muddy the waters : )
Connie Beerbower
Connie
about effects, timing ect. It is chapter 5 pg.45. I believe that this
excerpt from pg. 46 about covers it.
When you generate an effect, you must satisfy all preconditions. To play a
Character from your hand, for example, you must pay the cost of the card
(spend Power), check that you meet the resource conditions (have at least
the indicated number and type of resources in your resource pool), and place
the Character at a location you control. Other effects may have
preconditions such as turning a card, choosing one or more targets, and
choosing what the card affects if it doesn't explicit-itly target.
How do you tell what the preconditions are? You'll be right most of the
time if you assume that everything that requires a choice happens at
generation (all choices made, all payments made, all conditions checked)
unless the effect specifically says otherwise. In most cases if you read the
card as "Do this and this to do that and that," everything on the left of
"to" must be done on generation, and everything on the right of "to" is done
on resolution. But if a card says "This happens. This other thing hap-pens."
then both of those are done on resolution, in the order they appear on the
card. For particularly complicated cards, you will see a double colon :: in
the rules text to separate the preconditions (what happens at generation)
from the results (what happens at resolution).
All preconditions are considered to be paid/satisfied simultaneously. And
pre-conditions only need to be satisfied at generation-if you can no longer
meet the preconditions at the time your effect resolves, that doesn't keep
your effect from resolving. For example, if you just played a Character and
an opponent generates an effect in response that causes you to lose all your
resources, that by itself doesn't stop your Character from entering play.
Likewise, any effect you generate must be legal at
the time you generate it; if it becomes illegal as a result of other effects
in the scene, that doesn't by itself stop it from resolving.
Connie Beerbower
Julian Lighton
Joshua Duffin <jt...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>In article <Pine.GSO.3.96.1000828143003.28992B-
>100...@expert.cc.purdue.edu>,
>>cause
>> the 1<TECH> is part of the intiation, but the X is part of the
>>resolution.
>
>Yep, that does work.
It doesn't work. All the counting is done at generation. (Don't ask
me where it is in the rulebook, but it ought to be there somewhere.
It also worked that way under the old rules.)
--
Julian Lighton jl...@fragment.com
"Don't see the storms are forming / Don't see or heed the warning
Don't hear the sound of tyrants / Surrounded by the silence"
-- Savatage
Julian Lighton
Jan Malina <jma...@uclink4.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>If you
>want to see it now shoot me a mail as I dislike posting decklists because
>it leads to copying of decks such as in Magic.
I'm not sure deck cloning is ever going to be as prevalent in Fist as
it is in Magic. Actual play skill seems to be far more important than
the precise deck construction. (At least in multiplayer.)
Also, the nature of the game makes getting the deck precisely "right"
less important. Seeing most decks in action lets you clone them
sufficiently for most purposes.
--
Julian Lighton jl...@fragment.com
"Some will die in hot pursuit, in fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit, while sifting through my ashes"
-- Butthole Surfers
Shadowfist Rules
>About generation and resolution check Chapter 4.3 Playing Cards pg. 29
>in the new rulebook. Also 4.3.1 Resources Revisited pg. 31. I think
>this may address the issue best. Below is copy of what it says:
>
>You only check for the correct number of resources when you generate an
>effect. If for some reason you lose resources before your effect
>resolves, that in and of itself doesn't cancel your effect. Also,
>resource provisions from Characters and Sites are in your resource pool
>as soon as the card enters play, so you may start using those resources
>right away (by generating an effect in response that uses those new
>resources, for example).
>
>Hope this helps and doesn't just muddy the waters : )
>
>Connie Beerbower
>
>
Thanks Connie! Also check page 47 - the first example on that page
describes how Shattering Fire counts resources at the time of generation,
not on resolution. Orbital Laser Strike works the same way.
--
^stefan
rules*SPAMMO*@shadowfist.com
(remove the *SPAMMO* to reply. But you guessed that, didn't you?)
Visit the Shadowfist website at http://www.shadowfist.com
Andrew S. Davidson
>>Responding to a Orbital Laser Strike with a Reburial still works, cause
>>the 1<TECH> is part of the intiation, but the X is part of the resolution.
>>I know it's in the new rulebook somewhere, I don't have it with me...
>
>This is incorrect unless the new rulebook broke the timing rules --
>traditionally, effects count on generation, not resolution.
The new rulebook states (p85)
"For events, X is fixed at generation. For cards in play with
conditional abilities, recalculate X immediately after any game action
(a card enters play, leaves play, an effect resolves, etc.)."
So Orbital Laser Strike is fixed at generation. It's not clear if the
latter part changes anything. The cards in play with conditional X,
usually have it as a fighting score and that's not an effect. CAT
Tactics is clearly counted at generation. The only awkward case is
Agony Grenade which reads:
>Weapon. When you declare an attack with subject character,
>sacrifice Agony Grenade to choose X characters that may not intercept
>subject. X = number of damage counters on subject.
There's all kinds of problems with this card so it's just as well that
no-one uses it ....
Andrew
Joshua Duffin
jl...@fragment.com (Julian Lighton) wrote:
> In article <8oeh18$u5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> Joshua Duffin <jt...@cornell.edu> wrote:
> >In article <Pine.GSO.3.96.1000828143003.28992B-
> >100...@expert.cc.purdue.edu>,
> >> Responding to a Orbital Laser Strike with a Reburial still works,
> >>cause
> >> the 1<TECH> is part of the intiation, but the X is part of the
> >>resolution.
> >
> >Yep, that does work.
>
> It doesn't work. All the counting is done at generation. (Don't ask
> me where it is in the rulebook, but it ought to be there somewhere.
> It also worked that way under the old rules.)
Doh. Almost like a rulemonger, except not at
all. Yeah. I should've known that...
Josh
and to think I'm teaching new players the game...
of course, there aren't any reburials in YOTD decks
Joshua Duffin
> could have used and an operation killdear in hand if I am not mistaken
> but Steve will have to correct me as I was distracted slightly. I
have
> the decklist for the deck seeing as it was built by me and another bay
> want to see it now shoot me a mail as I dislike posting decklists
because
for
> the Big Man turney was not in is because it was never recorded to my
> knowledge. I gave them a list for my deck and I think I could give a
> fairly accurate discription of the event if people are interested.
> Anyway anyone in the Bay Area or willing to make a drive there is
going
> to be a demo/gathering of fisters at BallPark Game Center in San
> Francisco on 9th Ave. and Judha. Call the store at 415-759-5363 for
> directions if you want them. Hope to see you there,
Yeah, if you could post a writeup for the Who's
the Big Man Now tourney that'd be great. I know
I'd be interested, anyway...
as Julian said, deck copying will probably not get
you that far in Shadowfist, and even if it did,
it doesn't seem to me like there's really any
'secret tech' to be had in Fist. But if you don't
want to post it publicly, I'd appreciate a copy by
email: duff...@bls.gov.
Josh
oh the cuckoo she's a pretty bird
she wobbles when she flies
Joshua Kronengold
Steven Horton <sho...@expert.cc.purdue.edu> wrote:
>Whoa! OK, I misinterpreted your statements above. No need to get snippy
>about it.
Sorry; assumptions of ignorance (specifically in matters where I'm very much
not ignorant) tend to get my back up.
>don't think Steve was playing any of them. Did you mean the hypothetical
>Reburial might have hit all Ascended or all Architect characters,
>preventing a heavy hitter from appearing from one faction?
As people mentioned...yup.
>If so, I suppose if someone had Reburied several Ascended, Steve wouldn't
>have played his Ascended guy after the Bomb went off and won the game...
>hypothetically.
Exactly, yes. Reburrial isn't normally a stopper, but in this instance it
could have been.
Andy Holt
"Andrew S. Davidson" wrote:
> .... The only awkward case is
> Agony Grenade which reads:
>
> >Weapon. When you declare an attack with subject character,
> >sacrifice Agony Grenade to choose X characters that may not intercept
> >subject. X = number of damage counters on subject.
>
> There's all kinds of problems with this card so it's just as well that
> no-one uses it ....
>
As a simple quiz to check that those at the back are still awake:
What is the duration of this effect
a) Under the new rules?
b) Under the old rules?
Comment!
Andy
benjamin barnett
>> .... The only awkward case is
>> Agony Grenade which reads:
>>
>> >Weapon. When you declare an attack with subject character,
>> >sacrifice Agony Grenade to choose X characters that may not intercept
>> >subject. X = number of damage counters on subject.
>>
>> There's all kinds of problems with this card so it's just as well that
>> no-one uses it ....
hullo, andrew. okay, I'll be the gimp on this one -- what's the problem(s)
with agony grenade again? I know I SHOULD remember this, but I can't for the
life of me dredge it up....
benjamin
jbad...@my-deja.com
>
> > In article <UJvq5.535337$MB.81...@news6.giganews.com>,
> > mn...@fnord.io.com (Joshua Kronengold) wrote:
> > > Joshua Duffin <jt...@cornell.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > >But there are no Jammers stoppers. Except maybe
> > > >Weird Science, which would not have helped here.
> > > >There could have been an Orbital Laser Strike,
> > > >but there wasn't.
David was in fact playing Laser Strikes. I know because he stopped 2 of my
win attempts in the previous round with them. Very annoying :P I figured
that if he used one against Josh D. it wouldn't have been too bad since he
was going next and was in a fairly good position. I didn't think that David
had the cards to pull off a win with the amount of stoppage that was
potentially out there.
Basically, I took a risk (albeit a good one) in going for the win when I
did. I was sure that Joshua K had a GC that would bring back his Queen and
trigger the two Trackers. I was also certain that he wouldn't intercept with
the queen given the fact that his position was weak the whole game and Josh D
was going next which would make him have to intercept with both Trackers for
fear of Killdeer (which I didn't have) or an Imprison (which I did have). I
chose to play a random Pledge to join Adrienne in the attack in the event
that David was playing Death-O-Rama (which I was nearly certain he wasn't) to
help take down Adrienne with his single intercepter. The rest was is pretty
much history as I had a bunch of power, 2 hitters, bomb and an active
Festival Circle.
In regards to the reburial, I don't know if it could have stripped me of the
resources to play Shinobu for the win. Remember that I had two Family
Estates in play at the time.
I hope that clears up what I was thinking. Gen Con was a blast and I'm
definitely planning on attending next year.
-Steve Valladolid
Joshua Duffin
jbad...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > > > In article <8odu8g$9c4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> > > > Joshua Duffin <jt...@cornell.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > > >But there are no Jammers stoppers. Except maybe
> > > > >Weird Science, which would not have helped here.
> > > > >There could have been an Orbital Laser Strike,
> > > > >but there wasn't.
>
> David was in fact playing Laser Strikes. I know because he stopped 2
of my
> win attempts in the previous round with them. Very annoying :P I
figured
> that if he used one against Josh D. it wouldn't have been too bad
since he
> was going next and was in a fairly good position. I didn't think
that David
> had the cards to pull off a win with the amount of stoppage that was
> potentially out there.
Oh, I figured David had Laser Strikes in. I just
meant there wasn't one *then*.
I agree that me and David would probably not have
managed to do anything severely bad if David had
stopped you by Striking my site.
> Basically, I took a risk (albeit a good one) in going for the win
when I
> did. I was sure that Joshua K had a GC that would bring back his
Queen and
> trigger the two Trackers. I was also certain that he wouldn't
intercept with
> the queen given the fact that his position was weak the whole game
and Josh D
> was going next which would make him have to intercept with both
Trackers for
> fear of Killdeer (which I didn't have) or an Imprison (which I did
have). I
> chose to play a random Pledge to join Adrienne in the attack in the
event
> that David was playing Death-O-Rama (which I was nearly certain he
wasn't) to
> help take down Adrienne with his single intercepter. The rest was is
pretty
> much history as I had a bunch of power, 2 hitters, bomb and an active
> Festival Circle.
Yeah, your analysis was good. ;-) I guess I
wasn't thinking ahead nearly as much; it didn't
occur to me to figure that Josh K was holding a
Comeback for the Queen but was going to force
me to intercept (until he did it).
> In regards to the reburial, I don't know if it could have stripped me
of the
> resources to play Shinobu for the win. Remember that I had two
Family
> Estates in play at the time.
Oh yeah, good point, you would only have needed
one more [Asc] in your smoked pile to play
Shinobu... pretty irrelevant anyway, though, since
I wasn't playing Reburials.
> I hope that clears up what I was thinking. Gen Con was a blast and
I'm
> definitely planning on attending next year.
Yeah, I want to go back too. Lots of fun.
Thanks for posting!
Josh
kill kill kill kill kill the poor
Shadowfist Rules
<C46AC38FEB4EC8EA.FE3565EE...@lp.airnews.net>:
>On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:55:11 GMT, Joshua Kronengold wrote:
>
>>>Responding to a Orbital Laser Strike with a Reburial still works,
>>>cause the 1<TECH> is part of the intiation, but the X is part of the
>>>resolution. I know it's in the new rulebook somewhere, I don't have it
>>>with me...
>>
>>This is incorrect unless the new rulebook broke the timing rules --
>>traditionally, effects count on generation, not resolution.
>
>The new rulebook states (p85)
>
>"For events, X is fixed at generation. For cards in play with
>conditional abilities, recalculate X immediately after any game action
>(a card enters play, leaves play, an effect resolves, etc.)."
>
>So Orbital Laser Strike is fixed at generation. It's not clear if the
>latter part changes anything. The cards in play with conditional X,
>usually have it as a fighting score and that's not an effect.
which is why the definition says "abilities" not just "effects" (see quote
above :)
>CAT
>Tactics is clearly counted at generation. The only awkward case is
>Agony Grenade which reads:
>
>>Weapon. When you declare an attack with subject character,
>>sacrifice Agony Grenade to choose X characters that may not intercept
>>subject. X = number of damage counters on subject.
>
>There's all kinds of problems with this card so it's just as well that
>no-one uses it ....
>
>Andrew
Agony Grenade falls under the heading of old cards that need to be reworded
for timing clarity. If it were to be reprinted (and its ability weren't
improved :), it would say something like this:
Weapon. When subject Character is declared as an attacker, you may
sacrifice Agony Grenade and choose X Characters :: The chosen Characters
cannot intercept subject during this attack. X= the number of damage
counters on subject when this card is sacrificed.