The Real PT Report, 1
Dan Lewis
First off, Congratulations. But!
You said:
"In game 2, Eric casts the Haups, and I lose a lot of land and 3 quality
creatures. Luckily I have a ZOrb on the board, and go up to 34 lives.
He lays a Glaciers. Shit. I lay a Glaciers with a Swamp in my hand.
On his turn, he untaps the Glaciers, and lays an Outpost. He taps the
Outpost to activate the Glaciers before it goes to his graveyard. I yell
for the judge, because I know this is _way_ illegal, and allowing him to
have that kind of post-haups advantage will be the death of me. Tony
lets Eric off easy, saying that the Outpost just goes to his graveyard.
Eric is really mad at me for calling Tony, and at Tony for making the
correct ruling. I think Eric is lucky Tony didn't boot him out of the
tournament for another rules-infraction. Anyway, I drop a Necro, and
with me at 34 lives, he has no way to cope with the card-advantage. I
annihilate every land he drops, and finish him quickly with a pump
Knight. All right now, just one more game..."
Tony made the *wrong* ruling here. Under 4E rules, the Outpost could be
tapped for mana during damage prevention. HOWEVER, PTQs are 5E rules. Under
5E, it is legal because adding the {W} is at the speed of a maan source
(tapping a land for mana) and can be done before the land goes to the
graveyard.
Dan Lewis
Head Judge, Kcoltam Tournaments and Conventions
DanL on IRC
Adam Ruprecht
>In game 2, Eric casts the Haups, and I lose a lot of land and 3 quality
>creatures. Luckily I have a ZOrb on the board, and go up to 34 lives.
>He lays a Glaciers. Shit. I lay a Glaciers with a Swamp in my hand.
>On his turn, he untaps the Glaciers, and lays an Outpost. He taps the
>Outpost to activate the Glaciers before it goes to his graveyard. I yell
>for the judge, because I know this is _way_ illegal, and allowing him to
>have that kind of post-haups advantage will be the death of me. Tony
>lets Eric off easy, saying that the Outpost just goes to his graveyard.
>Eric is really mad at me for calling Tony, and at Tony for making the
>correct ruling. I think Eric is lucky Tony didn't boot him out of the
>tournament for another rules-infraction. Anyway, I drop a Necro, and
>with me at 34 lives, he has no way to cope with the card-advantage. I
>annihilate every land he drops, and finish him quickly with a pump
>Knight. All right now, just one more game...
Ummm... since when is it illegal to tap an outpost without
sacrificing a plains? This is the key to the landless 1st turn tax,
and it's legal unless they've re-ruled it very recently... under 4E,
you can tap it during DP as it is going to the graveyard (same principle
as the energy flux trick), and under 5E you can tap it as a mana source
before the triggered effect fires off... the judge misruled this one.
Adam Ruprecht
Rand, James D.
In article <53r5p4$m...@netnews.upenn.edu>, mfl...@mail2.sas.upenn.edu (Michael J Flores) writes...
>
>In game 2, Eric casts the Haups, and I lose a lot of land and 3 quality
>creatures. Luckily I have a ZOrb on the board, and go up to 34 lives.
>He lays a Glaciers. Shit. I lay a Glaciers with a Swamp in my hand.
>On his turn, he untaps the Glaciers, and lays an Outpost. He taps the
>Outpost to activate the Glaciers before it goes to his graveyard. I yell
>for the judge, because I know this is _way_ illegal, and allowing him to
>have that kind of post-haups advantage will be the death of me. Tony
>lets Eric off easy, saying that the Outpost just goes to his graveyard.
>Eric is really mad at me for calling Tony, and at Tony for making the
>correct ruling. I think Eric is lucky Tony didn't boot him out of the
>tournament for another rules-infraction. Anyway, I drop a Necro, and
What is illegal about what he did??? It's perfectly legal to drop an
Outpost, tap it for white in response to the triggered effect of burying
it. You should count yourself fortunate that the judge ruled in _your_
favor, because this is a legal play, and he should have been able to
glacier his way back into the game. :)
Neuro
Michael J Flores
So it was very late Friday night when the Captain America deck ( a red,
white, and blue Jester's Cap deck) still couldn't take a game. I had
previously played this deck in an IA/Alliances tournament, but she just
couldn't hang with the new breed of decks I had designed for my friends
for the qualifier. If I couldn't even beat a small pool of decks, I had
no business going at all.
So on that fateful Friday night, I did something I pledged never to do: I
pulled three Necropotence out of my binder and started constructing a B/R
control deck for the next day. She had about 10 land destruction in the
main deck with more in the sideboard, 8 knights, and of course, the
DARKNESS.
I got an hour of sleep before I had to go to the convention...
Round 1 Me vs. Andrew
Andrew was a genuinely nice junior who was playing the BANE of my deck,
G/R/w Stormbind. I realistically think that my deck will beat every
typical deck in the IA/Alliances metagame consistently, except for this
one, and probably a Browse deck with a good draw. I was terrified.
Game 1
Andrew got out some Deadly Insects and other small toughness creatures.
His Stormbind was making quick work of my weenies, and his Incinerates
handled my Lim-Dul's High Guard. Luckily I had two Withering Wisps in
hand, and eliminated all of his creatures quickly. Two Incinerates and a
Lava Burst later, it was game 2.
Andrew gets a ridiculous draw this time. 2 Insects and Stormbind are out
before I can blink, and there is no Withering Wisps or Dystopia to be
found. He makes short work of me.
I own the third game. Dystopia annihilates everything he can bring out,
and I crush him with a flurry of land destruction and weenies.
Match 1-0, games 2-1
Round 2 Me vs. Steve
Steve was playing an aggressive mono-red deck. He eventually went on to
make the semifinals of the tournament, so I suppose it was a good deck.
Unfortunately for Steve, I had an _ungodly_ measure of land destruction
in both of my opening draws. He was dead to Specters, Knights, and fire
before he could really do anything defensive. Our match was over in
under seven minutes--and in the second game, I even had two _more_
Pillage in my hand when he conceded!
Match 2-0, games 4-1
Round 3 Me vs. Jeff
Jeff was playing a u/W Outpost deck. I eat these decks for breakfast.
The trick is to eliminate all their Thawing Glaciers and blue mana.
Without these resources, they have no way of eliminating your Knights of
Stromgald, and you can walk all over them before they can mount a plan
with their Outpost tokens.
Jeff's deck had the unique dynamic of Skull Catapult, which, when
combined with the Outpost, _can_ beat my Knights of Stromgald! Luckily
for me, I stole all of Jeff's hand with an enormous Mind Warp. He had an
Order of White Shield on the board, as well as a Zuran Orb, but I had
more land, a Zuran Orb, and a Withering Wisps. Needless to say, his
Order kept my Wisps on the board, while I annihilated him with it for
enormous amounts of damage. Oh yeah, I was also plinking away with a
(regenerating) Lim-Dul's High Guard, but I eventually had to let him go
because it was tedious to regenerate him after each 1-point Wisps plink.
In game 2, Jeff got out an Outpost and a CoP Black. I got out Dystopia,
but had to (effectively) Dystopia down to -6 life (I had a Zuran Orb on
the table of course) before eliminating it, due to his making an Outpost
token each turn. After it was gone, there was nothing left to stop my
pump Knight who hit Jeff for like 10 damage for each of two turns. Game
over, man.
Match 3-0, Games 6-1
Round 4, me vs. Doug Dixon
Dixon is a great guy. We playtest together, and have met in many
tournaments. The great irony of our match was that I was playing B/R
Necropotence, which was Doug's deck last year, before Necro was even
popular. Doug was running U/W control, which, as everyone knows, is _my_
signature Type II deck. Funny how IA/Alliances format forces you to
change your normal playing style...
In the first game, I go down to 2 life, but am never in any real danger
to Doug's Ivory Gargoyles and Outpost tokens. Like I said, once my
Knights of Stromgald hit the table, it's usually game over for a U/W
player. Doug did eliminate some of my boys with Deflection (on my
Incinerates) and Ray of Command, but I take this one handily.
In the second game, Dixon pretty much owns me, and I concede when I have
around 14 life. If there's one thing about me, I know when I'm beaten,
and I won't waste anyone's precious time in a tournament dragging out a
game that I can't win. I really hate it when I am playing U/W control
and I lock somebody up really hard, and then I don't win for 30 turns.
That costs everybody Swiss points, and in my opinion, it is a ridiculous
and overproud practice. That being said, on to game 3...
Dixon never has a chance. Two Knights and several Incinerates later,
I've taken him down. I did make a possibly costly error, though. When
Doug had 3 life, and I had a Knight on the board (I obviously could
finish him the next turn) I Incinerated him. The Incinerate got
deflected onto my Knight and I had to cast the other one in my hand the
next turn. I was scared of CoP Black coming out though, and stand by my
decision to try for the quick kill.
On the downside, I had to eliminate Doug from the tournament. It is
always sad when you have to do that, and he is a strong player who maybe
would have made the elimination rounds.
Matches 4-0, Games 8-2
Round 5, me vs. Geoff
Geoff is a really amiable guy, and I enjoyed talking to him before our
match. I did not enjoy playing with him, though, as you will see below.
In game 1, I saw my first real manascrew of the tournament. He has all
kinds of Pillage and Stone Rain for my few lands, and I am toast
quickly. You know, I really do play a lot of mana in my decks, and I
don't ever like to lose to manascrew; oh well, it'll happen to any given
good player in a tournament once, right?
In game 2, I am again sort of manascrewed, as I am held to 3 lands, 2
Springs and a Mountain. However, I can cast most of my spells with 3
mana, so it's all right. I go down to 9 life from my own pain lands, and
Geoff has no land (because of my spells, not a manascrew) when I overrun
him with a Knight of Stromgald and a Lim-Dul's High Guard.
Now this is ridiculous. You are only supposed to get manascrewed ONCE in
a tournament, and this is the third time in one match! (I was also
color-screwed in the Juzam Sealed tournament that morning, but that is
another topic entirely) Geoff jumps all over me with Storm Shamans and I
am quickly over with. I was really pissed off. If not for manascrew I
know I should have beaten his deck (it was R/W Joke-ulhaups). An
interesting side note to this match was that it was the FIRST time the
whole tournament I drew any Necropotence (I had 3 in my deck).
Unfortunately, I never had the 3 mana to cast it out--not that I would
considering the fact that I held 7 cards in hand most of the game...
Matches 4-1, Games, 9-3
Round 6, me vs. Bruce.
Bruce was a friendly enough guy, but we both knew that only one of us was
going to make the single elimination rounds. He was playing R/W
Joke-ulhaups, so I knew I had an excellent chance of beating him...
In the first game, I jump all over Bruce, and Necro down to 1 life to
draw the Incinerate to finish him off. That was probably kind of
dangerous, becasue he could have StP'd one of his creatures, I guess, to
stay alive, or cast Incinerate on me. Anyway, I don't think it was a
mistake, because I won the game!
I never touch Bruce in the second game. I must have been manascrewed or
something. A ridiculous match on my side.
In game 3, Bruce does this silly thing--he casts out an Ivory Gargoyle.
I know everyone thinks this card is good, but I think it is a joke, in
general. I attack him with my pump Knight and Abyssal Specter, which he,
of course, doesn't block. There goes that last card in hand for Bruce!
Here comes Dystopia! Bruce has to sacrifice his Ivory Gargoyles to
Dystopia on his upkeep, and gets no draw phase. I of course smash him
the next turn with my creatures.
Matches 5-1, Games 11-4
I pretty much know that I am in the single elimination rounds, because
5-1 (with 1 loss to another 5-1 only) is a pretty good record.
Single elimination rounds...
Round 1, me vs. Eric
In the first game, Eric counterspells one of my spells with an Arcane
Denial on my turn. On his turn, he untaps his Thawing Glaciers and grabs
a Mountain _before_ drawing his cantrip card. I call the judge over
because this is obviously illegal. You have to draw your cantrip for
Arcane Denial at the BEGINNING of your upkeep, and thinning out the land
in your deck to reduce the chance of drawing a land is shady, in my
opinion. Big Tony issues Eric a warning, and says that if a similar
rules infraction happens, he is eliminated. Anyway, he is playing U/R/W
Joke-ulhaups, and that deck really can't hang with my disruptive Necro.
I let him Haups, and then Ritual out a pump Knight right after, then lay
a Glaciers the next turn. Game over, man.
In game 2, Eric casts the Haups, and I lose a lot of land and 3 quality
creatures. Luckily I have a ZOrb on the board, and go up to 34 lives.
He lays a Glaciers. Shit. I lay a Glaciers with a Swamp in my hand.
On his turn, he untaps the Glaciers, and lays an Outpost. He taps the
Outpost to activate the Glaciers before it goes to his graveyard. I yell
for the judge, because I know this is _way_ illegal, and allowing him to
have that kind of post-haups advantage will be the death of me. Tony
lets Eric off easy, saying that the Outpost just goes to his graveyard.
Eric is really mad at me for calling Tony, and at Tony for making the
correct ruling. I think Eric is lucky Tony didn't boot him out of the
tournament for another rules-infraction. Anyway, I drop a Necro, and
with me at 34 lives, he has no way to cope with the card-advantage. I
annihilate every land he drops, and finish him quickly with a pump
Knight. All right now, just one more game...
Round 2, me vs. Justin
Justin was a really friendly guy, who goes to Swarthmore, a school
outside of Philadelphia (I go to Penn). It turns out we have some
friends in common, and we are both eager to see who gets to go to Dallas.
In game 1, all I see are some Islands, Adarkar Wastes, and Plains. I
think that Justin is just playing U/W control, and with that mindet,
defeat him in a close game. All right now, just one more...
I sideboard out some creatures and one Withering Wisps for 2 Pyroblasts
and 2 Dystopias. I'm not sure what Justin is playing, so I'm not sure
how to sideboard. Anyway, I knock him down to 3 lives when he drops CoP
Black. Fuck. Double-fuck. I hurl tons of fire at him, but at this
point he's got a Browse on the table, and obviously a ton of
counterspells in hand. He has 3 Outposts. He Ray of Commands my
Lim-Dul's High Guard and kills my pump Knight. Damn. Justin attacks
maybe twice before I concede. Not a Dystopia in sight, damn it!
I sideboard again. I will either be the biggest Magic genius for this
play or the biggest Magic fool. I have to beat Justin's Browse, as well
as his defensive measures to win. I sideboard out almost all of my
creautres for an extra Stone Rain, 4 Pyroblast, and 3 Dystopia. We
shuffle and I go first. GOD DRAW! Glaciers. Swamp: Ritual Icequake
your Island. Swamp. Pump Knigh. Pillage. Stone Rain. Second Pump Knight.
Two Dystopias in hand.
All I remember was attacking Justin when he had three life. He looked at
his hand. He didn't say "You've got me," or anything. I went into
"cocky bastard" mode and jumped out of my chair yelling I'M GOING TO
DALLAS BABY! All my teammates jumped over to me and it was hugs and
slapping on the back and yelling! Justin was very gracious, I must say,
and shook my hand, and congratulated me.
WOO HOO
Now it was time for sealed deck for $1000.
Someone please tell me how I didn't win sealed deck.
Artifacts:
1 Aladdin's Ring
2 Rod of Ruin
1 Diabolic Machine
1 Jayemdae Tome
1 Nev's Disk
Blue:
1 Flood
1 Ghost Ship
1 Merfolk
1 Phantasmal Forces
1 Time Elemental
1 Zephyr Falcon (one of my all-time favorites...)
Land (special):
1 Strip Mine
Red:
2 Fireball
1 Immolation
2 Lightning Bolt
White:
1 Amrou Kithkin
1 Mesa Pegasus
1 Reverse Damage
1 Spirit Link
1 StP
1 Tundra Wolves
1 White Knight
1 Wrath of God
The answer: manascrew. Don't say I didn't have enough--I had 20 basic
land plus a Strip Mine in a just-over-40 card deck. Everyone at the
tournament came over to me and said "Bow your head, boy. You may be
going to Dallas, but with that deck, you really should have won sealed!"
Anyway, the FINALS of the Pro Tourney Qualifier...
Erik and I decide to split everything. He will get the larger travel
voucher, but gives me cash to compensate. Erik had a fabulous day. He
won every event. He won the Juzam Sealed tournament in the morning, met
me in the finals of the PTQ, and won the $1000 sealed portion of the
show. We decided to play one game for fun. Erik's deck had Snow-covered
Swampwalking Zombies in the main deck, and my Snow-covered Swamps doubly
hurt me, as his Icequakes actually did damage for once. I was
manascrewed and conceded to his Zombie after he Contagioned my Knight.
Ah well, the game was just for fun, and I'm still frigging GOING TO
DALLAS, BABY!
As always,
Mike Flores
Michael Feuell
Michael J Flores<mfl...@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> wrote:
>In game 2, Eric casts the Haups, and I lose a lot of land and 3 quality
>creatures. Luckily I have a ZOrb on the board, and go up to 34 lives.
>He lays a Glaciers. Shit. I lay a Glaciers with a Swamp in my hand.
>On his turn, he untaps the Glaciers, and lays an Outpost. He taps the
>Outpost to activate the Glaciers before it goes to his graveyard. I yell
>for the judge, because I know this is _way_ illegal, and allowing him to
>have that kind of post-haups advantage will be the death of me. Tony
>lets Eric off easy, saying that the Outpost just goes to his graveyard.
>Eric is really mad at me for calling Tony, and at Tony for making the
>correct ruling. I think Eric is lucky Tony didn't boot him out of the
>tournament for another rules-infraction.
Actually, NO.
Under 4e rules, you can tap the land during the DP step tat results from it
being buried.
Under 5e rules, it's ability is played as a mana source and you can get mana
out of it before the effect of it being buried resolves.
Both you and Tony were mistaken. Eric was terribly unlucky. It's a crying
shame when judges don't a) know the rules, b) take the time to check anyway.
This is a relativly 'old' ruling that the judge should have had access to.
-Michael
ps. Congrats and good luck at Dallas....
pps. No deck listing?
Michael Feuell
Poker Face<rbl...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>Of course, anyone who says Tony ruled wrong should *NOT* be judging a
>qualifier.
Uh, whoops aren't you embarressed. :*)
>May I point your attention to the fact that all pro-tour qualifiers are to
>be played by 5th edition rules.
>
>Moreover, it has been ruled (as in 5th edition) that the damage prevention
>subphase is *NO LONGER* entered unless a creature has taken damage.
>
>Under 4E rules, tapping the outpost for mana happened during this phase.
>Since this phase CAN NO LONGER BE ENTERED without something taking lethal
>damage (IE--burying the outpost is *NOT* lethal damage), the outpost
>*CANNOT* be tapped for mana.
I presume by now that you've gotten a bunch of flame-mail pointing out your
error. Or perhaps you've taken the time to check up on the actual rulings...
Under 5e, tapping the outpost happens at the speed of a mana source and can
be done before the effect of the land being buried resolves.
What you meant to say is that the land could not be tapped for mana during
the Damage Prevention Step because under 5e there is NO DP Step. However
under 5e rules it CAN still be tapped for mana.
-Michael
Adam Ruprecht
In article <53srt1$c...@panix2.panix.com>, rbl...@panix.com says...
>
>
>
>Of course, anyone who says Tony ruled wrong should *NOT* be judging a
>qualifier.
>
>be played by 5th edition rules.
>
>Moreover, it has been ruled (as in 5th edition) that the damage prevention
>subphase is *NO LONGER* entered unless a creature has taken damage.
>
>Under 4E rules, tapping the outpost for mana happened during this phase.
>Since this phase CAN NO LONGER BE ENTERED without something taking lethal
>damage (IE--burying the outpost is *NOT* lethal damage), the outpost
>*CANNOT* be tapped for mana.
>
>Ben
>
You are correct- you can no longer tap the outpost for mana during
the damage prevention phase, as under 5E rules there is no DP phase.
However, as I pointed out elsewhere in this thread, you can tap the outpost
before the triggered effect go off as long as the effect is a mana source,
so you couldn't create a token; tapping for mana, however, is quite valid.
Adam
Eric Taylor
>have that kind of post-haups advantage will be the death of me. Tony
>lets Eric off easy, saying that the Outpost just goes to his graveyard.
>Eric is really mad at me for calling Tony, and at Tony for making the
>correct ruling. I think Eric is lucky Tony didn't boot him out of the
>tournament for another rules-infraction.
I was thinking at the time when the head judge was called over the
second time that this was going to be it for me. The first time the
judge was called over, he gave me a five minute lecture wherein he made
it quite clear he would be very tough on me if he found a chance to
make another ruling.
I don't think either the judge or you like me very much.
I'm sorry about that, but I can't say I was happy to be playing against
someone who showed no respect for my deck (thanks very much for those
pleasant comments about my 'Joke'-ulhaups deck), no respect for my
playing abilities, and no respect for my grasp of the rules.
Justin Schneider was at the next table, screaming bloody hell when he
got thrown out of the tournament for some reason by the head judge at
about the same time I was ruled against. At the time, I would have
been happy to hold down the head judge if Justin had felt like bitch
slapping him.
A traumatic experience overall.
p.s. I'm not terribly surprised at the good showing of the
necro-decks. I had put together an IA/AL necrodeck a while ago (which
I didn't feel like playing), and when I compared it with Erik's IA/AL
deck in Philly, found it to be nearly identical card for card, complete
with Zombies (aka, the black spiders). My biggest mistake in the
tournament was that I stupidly did not put enough anti-necro cards in
my sideboard, thinking that people had not yet caught on to necro's
strength in IA/AL, especially considering the lack of interest that
Mario Robaina's post last week gathered. I had taken my cold snaps,
and extra cop blacks out of my sideboard that morning to put in more
jesters caps, a decision I would greatly regret.
--- edt
Mario Robaina
In article <53srt1$c...@panix2.panix.com> rbl...@panix.com (Poker Face) writes:
>
>
>Of course, anyone who says Tony ruled wrong should *NOT* be judging a
>qualifier.
>
>May I point your attention to the fact that all pro-tour qualifiers are to
>be played by 5th edition rules.
>
>Moreover, it has been ruled (as in 5th edition) that the damage prevention
>subphase is *NO LONGER* entered unless a creature has taken damage.
>
>Under 4E rules, tapping the outpost for mana happened during this phase.
>Since this phase CAN NO LONGER BE ENTERED without something taking lethal
>damage (IE--burying the outpost is *NOT* lethal damage), the outpost
>*CANNOT* be tapped for mana.
Sorry Ben, but the land can be tapped for mana because nothing can stop a
mana source.
Later,
Mario.
David Swasey
BTW, I am actually Erik Lauer borrowing a friends account.
mfl...@mail2.sas.upenn.edu (Michael J Flores) writes:
>So it was very late Friday night when the Captain America deck ( a red,
>white, and blue Jester's Cap deck) still couldn't take a game. I had
>previously played this deck in an IA/Alliances tournament, but she just
>couldn't hang with the new breed of decks I had designed for my friends
>for the qualifier. If I couldn't even beat a small pool of decks, I had
>no business going at all.
>So on that fateful Friday night, I did something I pledged never to do: I
>pulled three Necropotence out of my binder and started constructing a B/R
>control deck for the next day. She had about 10 land destruction in the
>main deck with more in the sideboard, 8 knights, and of course, the
>DARKNESS.
Darkness just plain kicks ass. Stomp.
>I got an hour of sleep before I had to go to the convention...
>Round 1 Me vs. Andrew
>Andrew was a genuinely nice junior who was playing the BANE of my deck,
>G/R/w Stormbind. I realistically think that my deck will beat every
>typical deck in the IA/Alliances metagame consistently, except for this
>one, and probably a Browse deck with a good draw. I was terrified.
Hmm. I was more afraid of thoughtlash or some other bizzare
non (white, green) enchantment. Certainly glacial crevaces is
a problem for any creature deck that can't destroy it...
>Game 1
>Andrew got out some Deadly Insects and other small toughness creatures.
>His Stormbind was making quick work of my weenies, and his Incinerates
>handled my Lim-Dul's High Guard. Luckily I had two Withering Wisps in
>hand, and eliminated all of his creatures quickly. Two Incinerates and a
>Lava Burst later, it was game 2.
>Andrew gets a ridiculous draw this time. 2 Insects and Stormbind are out
>before I can blink, and there is no Withering Wisps or Dystopia to be
>found. He makes short work of me.
>I own the third game. Dystopia annihilates everything he can bring out,
>and I crush him with a flurry of land destruction and weenies.
>Match 1-0, games 2-1
>Round 2 Me vs. Steve
>Steve was playing an aggressive mono-red deck. He eventually went on to
>make the semifinals of the tournament, so I suppose it was a good deck.
Steve's deck was way cool. That orcish librarian / thawing glaciers
combo (which I found amusing, since I like to refer to those glaciers
as "the library" anyway :) ) was cool, and all those cannoneers were
powerful. I don't think he had an answer for darkness, and I think
crevaces could have helped his deck (really, I think it is just a damn
powerful card if you are playing red with glaciers and no hops).
>Unfortunately for Steve, I had an _ungodly_ measure of land destruction
>in both of my opening draws. He was dead to Specters, Knights, and fire
>before he could really do anything defensive. Our match was over in
>under seven minutes--and in the second game, I even had two _more_
>Pillage in my hand when he conceded!
>Match 2-0, games 4-1
>Round 3 Me vs. Jeff
>Jeff was playing a u/W Outpost deck. I eat these decks for breakfast.
>The trick is to eliminate all their Thawing Glaciers and blue mana.
Definately, especially the damn library! LOA is a LOT more powerful
than caraboo range.
>Match 3-0, Games 6-1
Heh. Yeah, I went all the way from choosing between a Ur control
deck and Necro (my favorite type II decks) and choosing between
a Ur control deck (browse) and straight black necro. I just couldn't
deal with all the shuffling anymore, so I played necro today :)
>In the first game, I go down to 2 life, but am never in any real danger
>to Doug's Ivory Gargoyles and Outpost tokens. Like I said, once my
>Knights of Stromgald hit the table, it's usually game over for a U/W
>player. Doug did eliminate some of my boys with Deflection (on my
>Incinerates) and Ray of Command, but I take this one handily.
The Ray. Cool :). Why not the grasp? I don't understand why
people don't like the grasp. Sure it is worlds worse than control magic,
but that is like saying hymn is a lot weaker than mind twist.... worse
but still truely dominating.
>In the second game, Dixon pretty much owns me, and I concede when I have
>around 14 life. If there's one thing about me, I know when I'm beaten,
>and I won't waste anyone's precious time in a tournament dragging out a
>game that I can't win. I really hate it when I am playing U/W control
>and I lock somebody up really hard, and then I don't win for 30 turns.
I agree completely. That is one reason I played speed today, to avoid
that sillyness.
>That costs everybody Swiss points, and in my opinion, it is a ridiculous
>and overproud practice. That being said, on to game 3...
>Dixon never has a chance. Two Knights and several Incinerates later,
>I've taken him down. I did make a possibly costly error, though. When
>Doug had 3 life, and I had a Knight on the board (I obviously could
>finish him the next turn) I Incinerated him. The Incinerate got
>deflected onto my Knight and I had to cast the other one in my hand the
>next turn. I was scared of CoP Black coming out though, and stand by my
>decision to try for the quick kill.
>On the downside, I had to eliminate Doug from the tournament. It is
>always sad when you have to do that, and he is a strong player who maybe
>would have made the elimination rounds.
True. Eliminating people is part of the tourney though. I was
irritated that I had to eliminate someone in the Juzam tourney
on a technicality. Here is my story: I am playing against an
excellent opponent. I win the roll and choose draw (note --
I never choose that in a normal constructed deck, but I only
had 17 mana and wanted 18 in my 3 color deck...) he plays.
His second turn he plays a second land and a diamond. We
count the cards in his hand -- 6. I expected a warning and
he had to put a card back. Instead the ruling is he keeps the
extra card and forfeits the next game. So we play a bogus
game where he has a card advantage, and he wins. I win
the third game due to mana screw on his part. He was a
little abnoxious between games while we were shuffling,
I took it the wrong way and thought he had cheated intentionally.
If you are reading this (I don't want to write this person's name
here), I appologize for thinking you cheated intentionally. You
are a truely excellent magic player. The player who uncut
his deck after I cut it was obviously cheating (though I did
not call the judge), I will presume you were not.
>Matches 4-0, Games 8-2
>Matches 4-1, Games, 9-3
Hey, my Ur browse deck killed plenty of people with Ivory gargoyles.
2/3 fliers for 4 mana? It's no 5/6 hordes, but it's pretty good!
>general. I attack him with my pump Knight and Abyssal Specter, which he,
>of course, doesn't block. There goes that last card in hand for Bruce!
>Here comes Dystopia! Bruce has to sacrifice his Ivory Gargoyles to
>Dystopia on his upkeep, and gets no draw phase. I of course smash him
Bruce, wake up! Pay the 5 mana!
>the next turn with my creatures.
>Matches 5-1, Games 11-4
>I pretty much know that I am in the single elimination rounds, because
>5-1 (with 1 loss to another 5-1 only) is a pretty good record.
>Single elimination rounds...
>Round 1, me vs. Eric
>In the first game, Eric counterspells one of my spells with an Arcane
>Denial on my turn. On his turn, he untaps his Thawing Glaciers and grabs
>a Mountain _before_ drawing his cantrip card.
>I call the judge over because this is obviously illegal.
Yeah it is. Hmm. I had a similar experience with Steve
(who you played in round 2 of the swiss). He flared my
knight, then on his turn tried to orcish libraian, I crisply told
him to stop and draw his cantrip card first! I appologized
for my tone, but did not want to have to call over a judge,
and told him to read the cantrip effect on the flare card.
>You have to draw your cantrip for
>Arcane Denial at the BEGINNING of your upkeep, and thinning out the land
>in your deck to reduce the chance of drawing a land is shady, in my
>opinion. Big Tony issues Eric a warning, and says that if a similar
>rules infraction happens, he is eliminated. Anyway, he is playing U/R/W
>Joke-ulhaups, and that deck really can't hang with my disruptive Necro.
>I let him Haups, and then Ritual out a pump Knight right after, then lay
>a Glaciers the next turn. Game over, man.
Yeah, I played against Eric during the swiss. I told him his
deck was excellent and would probably beat all the
non-necro decks out there. As much as I liked talking to
Eric, that didn't stop me from sideboarding in Krovican
horrors. Heh. As if necro / darkness with 4 loadstones
wasn't hard enough for him to beat, I'll put in recursive /
anti plow stuff / plink when you hops stuff too :)
>In game 2, Eric casts the Haups, and I lose a lot of land and 3 quality
>creatures. Luckily I have a ZOrb on the board, and go up to 34 lives.
>He lays a Glaciers. Shit. I lay a Glaciers with a Swamp in my hand.
>On his turn, he untaps the Glaciers, and lays an Outpost. He taps the
>Outpost to activate the Glaciers before it goes to his graveyard. I yell
>for the judge, because I know this is _way_ illegal, and allowing him to
>have that kind of post-haups advantage will be the death of me. Tony
>lets Eric off easy, saying that the Outpost just goes to his graveyard.
>Eric is really mad at me for calling Tony, and at Tony for making the
>correct ruling.
Eric did that outpost trick when he played me. I let him (and
others), because I think that is correct. I think Tony is
incorrect, but I respect that he will rule consistently for
a the whole tourney. I assume Tony will check that out,
and rule the other way next time though. I don't have a problem
with the outpost mana trick. I have a problem that they
ever printed the damn library, so powerful but if you and
your opponent both use the usual number in IA / AL
permission decks (i.e. 4, and protect them till you have
backup), the games take forever.
>I think Eric is lucky Tony didn't boot him out of the
>tournament for another rules-infraction. Anyway, I drop a Necro, and
>with me at 34 lives, he has no way to cope with the card-advantage. I
>annihilate every land he drops, and finish him quickly with a pump
>Knight. All right now, just one more game...
Hmm, necro, zorb, pumper. Sounds tourney viable :)
>Round 2, me vs. Justin
>Justin was a really friendly guy, who goes to Swarthmore, a school
>outside of Philadelphia (I go to Penn). It turns out we have some
>friends in common, and we are both eager to see who gets to go to Dallas.
>In game 1, all I see are some Islands, Adarkar Wastes, and Plains. I
>think that Justin is just playing U/W control, and with that mindet,
>defeat him in a close game. All right now, just one more...
Whenever I see U and no necro, I expect browse. It is just
so damn good.
>I sideboard out some creatures and one Withering Wisps for 2 Pyroblasts
I would sideboard out mindwarp rather than creatures from your
deck (mine doesn't start with warp) against browse. Sure he has
to counter the warp, but by the time you are warping he is browsing.
You need to cast lots of spells when browse hits, can't let him get
away with using 2 mana to counter spell, 4 to browse again. Basically
I think you need to concentrate on kill (and remove COP black obviously)
to beat it.
>and 2 Dystopias. I'm not sure what Justin is playing, so I'm not sure
>how to sideboard. Anyway, I knock him down to 3 lives when he drops CoP
>Black. Fuck. Double-fuck. I hurl tons of fire at him, but at this
>point he's got a Browse on the table, and obviously a ton of
>counterspells in hand. He has 3 Outposts. He Ray of Commands my
>Lim-Dul's High Guard and kills my pump Knight. Damn. Justin attacks
>maybe twice before I concede. Not a Dystopia in sight, damn it!
The Ray again! Wow. Amazing. I must be the only one who
likes the grasp better.
>I sideboard again. I will either be the biggest Magic genius for this
>play or the biggest Magic fool. I have to beat Justin's Browse, as well
>as his defensive measures to win. I sideboard out almost all of my
>creautres for an extra Stone Rain, 4 Pyroblast, and 3 Dystopia. We
>shuffle and I go first. GOD DRAW! Glaciers. Swamp: Ritual Icequake
>your Island. Swamp. Pump Knigh. Pillage. Stone Rain. Second Pump Knight.
>Two Dystopias in hand.
That is just plain harsh man :)
>All I remember was attacking Justin when he had three life. He looked at
>his hand. He didn't say "You've got me," or anything. I went into
>"cocky bastard" mode and jumped out of my chair yelling I'M GOING TO
>DALLAS BABY! All my teammates jumped over to me and it was hugs and
>slapping on the back and yelling! Justin was very gracious, I must say,
>and shook my hand, and congratulated me.
Cool! I was so hungry I didn't really care about Dallas at
that point. I inhaled a hamburger and some Dew, and
swaped deck ideas with Steve. Heck, I didn't realise
I was already qualified for Dallas. I was in a daze --
musta been some weird zone thing :)
>WOO HOO
>Artifacts:
>Blue:
>Land (special):
>1 Strip Mine
>Red:
>White:
Heh. That $1000 thing was only the 5th time I ever played
in a sealed deck tourney (the 4th was the Juzam tourney
that morning). I forgot sealed is 40 cards, I built a 60 card
deck till (with about 5 mins left) the player across from me
kindly informed me that it was 40 card min :)). I guess
I have a weird mindset, I built a WUR control deck. Main
features were 2 COP red, paladin, artillery, sleight, burn spells,
permission spells, a few big creatures, disenchant, and 21 mana
(including the mishra and the stone) so I could endgame
with 1 X spell. I ended up splitting 70% / 30% with my last two
opponents (I figured I had to lose a match sometime that day,
why not split?), and ended up "only" getting $490. BTW the
60 card version had black. Blacks big features were pestilence,
and THE creature. My sealed deck got stolen while I played
you though (about the only thing that didn't go my way that day...).
Oh well, I hope someone gave my pet a safe home, and that
he doesn't encounter too many bolts, plows, or weaknesses.
>Anyway, the FINALS of the Pro Tourney Qualifier...
>Erik and I decide to split everything. He will get the larger travel
>voucher, but gives me cash to compensate. Erik had a fabulous day. He
>won every event. He won the Juzam Sealed tournament in the morning, met
>me in the finals of the PTQ, and won the $1000 sealed portion of the
>show. We decided to play one game for fun. Erik's deck had Snow-covered
>Swampwalking Zombies in the main deck, and my Snow-covered Swamps doubly
Oh those all powerful legions! People gave me the weirdest
look when (in an earlier game) I announced "during your
discard phase I consult for legions of lim dul" ... zombies
win so many games (I let opponents claim it was the
darkness, but clearly it was all those zombies!).
>hurt me, as his Icequakes actually did damage for once. I was
>manascrewed and conceded to his Zombie after he Contagioned my Knight.
Heh. I was about to put out the cohorts and necro when you
ended it. Those cohorts decimate poor high guards :)
Seriously, I was waiting on contagion till you played two
creatures since they would both die to one contagion.
When I got to the point I was going to necro, I used
contagion to give me more hand room.
>Ah well, the game was just for fun, and I'm still frigging GOING TO
>DALLAS, BABY!
Cool, I hope to see you there Mike! I surmize from
your post I'll get to see you tutor for balance, then
your turn will involve casting lots of baubles. Nah,
card advantage isn't important in a UW deck :)
>As always,
>Mike Flores
Lim Dul was obviously grateful to
see his powerful servents getting so much use, I only
lost 3 games all day. Two to drawing < 3 land in the
first 6 turns, one game to a 38 card consultation for
necro with 4 in the deck (after sideboarding... I was
playing against another necro deck). I figured before the tourney
I would lose roughly two games to land hose or DC death.
[I had 21 land, 4 loadstone, 2 consults in the deck, almost
everything was 3 or less mana, obviously the consults
get used for swamp initially if I don't have enough].
However I can't reasonably complain about my luck.
I was just plain lucky all day, no way did I deserve
the 16-0 match record I had that day. But I'll take
the $490, thank you very much :)
Erik
Michael J Flores
Eric Taylor (e...@admin.lsa.umich.edu) wrote:
: >have that kind of post-haups advantage will be the death of me. Tony
: >Eric is really mad at me for calling Tony, and at Tony for making the
: >correct ruling. I think Eric is lucky Tony didn't boot him out of the
: >tournament for another rules-infraction.
: I was thinking at the time when the head judge was called over the
: second time that this was going to be it for me. The first time the
: judge was called over, he gave me a five minute lecture wherein he made
: it quite clear he would be very tough on me if he found a chance to
: make another ruling.
: I don't think either the judge or you like me very much.
Eric, I don't want you to think that I have any grudge against you. You
were my opponent in a very important tournament match. I believe I acted
very politely the whole day, and I was forced to eliminate some friends
as well as you. I am sure Tony was just doing his job, as I doubt he had
any special favoritism towards me.
If you dislike me, though, I think a private forum would be more
appropriate than here at .strategy.
: I'm sorry about that, but I can't say I was happy to be playing against
: someone who showed no respect for my deck (thanks very much for those
: pleasant comments about my 'Joke'-ulhaups deck), no respect for my
: playing abilities, and no respect for my grasp of the rules.
Eric, as I have stated elsewhere, I believe that anyone who graduates the
Swiss rounds is a good player with a competent deck. I never once showed
disrespect towards you as a person, a player, or your knowledge of the
rules. I asked the judge for his ruling in a situation where I found it
appropriate, pure and simple. I know that my actions were done in the
most polite way possible, and I was well within my rights at all times.
With regards to "Joke" ulhaups, I have never made my dislike for the card
or its strategy a secret. "Joke" ulhaups is the playtest nickname I made
up for the deck over the last several weeks. No personal attack was
intended. If you feel that I attacked you or your deck personally, here
in this public forum,
I AM SORRY, ERIC.
(Actually, the name "Joke" ulhaups specifically refers to Jester's Caps
in the R/W Jokulhaups version, whereas the U/R/W control version is the
CAPtain America deck. I'm sorry I didn't clarify earlier).
: Justin Schneider was at the next table, screaming bloody hell when he
: got thrown out of the tournament for some reason by the head judge at
: about the same time I was ruled against. At the time, I would have
: been happy to hold down the head judge if Justin had felt like bitch
: slapping him.
The extent of my report was based on the details of my play and matches.
I don't want to drag anyone's name or reputation through the dirt, not
Justing Schneider, who I don't know, nor Justin Herring, who I found to
be a complete gentleman and a pleasure to play against, nor Tony, who did
the best job he could with many people yelling at him constantly. I
don't have anything but respect for the Gray Matter crew and the effort
they put each weekend for us Magic junkies.
: A traumatic experience overall.
I am sorry you felt that way.
: p.s. I'm not terribly surprised at the good showing of the
: necro-decks. I had put together an IA/AL necrodeck a while ago (which
: I didn't feel like playing), and when I compared it with Erik's IA/AL
: deck in Philly, found it to be nearly identical card for card, complete
: with Zombies (aka, the black spiders). My biggest mistake in the
: tournament was that I stupidly did not put enough anti-necro cards in
: my sideboard, thinking that people had not yet caught on to necro's
: strength in IA/AL, especially considering the lack of interest that
: Mario Robaina's post last week gathered. I had taken my cold snaps,
: and extra cop blacks out of my sideboard that morning to put in more
: jesters caps, a decision I would greatly regret.
I think my deck was innovative and took a lot of guts to play. It was
the only B/R control deck I saw all day, and I obviously did better than
every other player at the tournament except for Erik.
Mike Flores
: --- edt
Poker Face
Of course, anyone who says Tony ruled wrong should *NOT* be judging a
qualifier.
May I point your attention to the fact that all pro-tour qualifiers are to
be played by 5th edition rules.
Moreover, it has been ruled (as in 5th edition) that the damage prevention
subphase is *NO LONGER* entered unless a creature has taken damage.
Under 4E rules, tapping the outpost for mana happened during this phase.
Since this phase CAN NO LONGER BE ENTERED without something taking lethal
damage (IE--burying the outpost is *NOT* lethal damage), the outpost
*CANNOT* be tapped for mana.
Thank you for your time,
Ben
Michael J Flores
Eric Taylor (e...@admin.lsa.umich.edu) wrote:
: Michael J Flores (mfl...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu) wrote:
: : I think my deck was innovative and took a lot of guts to play. It was
: : every other player at the tournament except for Erik.
: I agree. You had a beautiful and innovative deck and you played it
: perfectly.
: I hope you can understand why I seem so bitter. I could see that you
: and the head judge were good friends and to have the most critical
: ruling of the day go against me is quite suspicious. I hope you do
: well in Dallas.
Actually Eric, I had never met Tony before in my life, and I have only
ever played in one other Gray Matter tournament, where I was eliminated
early. I am a pretty friendly guy, though, for whatever that is worth.
I also hope I do well at Dallas.
: p.s. Aren't you going to post the deck? (Though I should probably not
: be asking because I am probably going to continue be playing my "Army
: of Blinky" at the next qualifer I go to and blue traditionally does
: badly against necro.)
I would post the specifics on the deck, but a lot of my teammates are
going to be running it at the next two qualifiers, and the last thing I
want is for them to run into an anti- "Mike Flores Necropotence"
environment in our area. I enjoyed a great deal of metagame advantage,
and I almost feel like I've said too much. I hope that that doesn't seem
ungracious, but I will probably post it by the time I'm ready to go to
Dallas.
Mike Flores
: --- edt
Poker Face
mario: Under the current wording of Energy flux (During your upkeep,
destroy all artifacts: pay 2 to prevent blah blah blah), and under 5th
edition rules, you SHOULD be able to, say, tap a sol ring for 2 mana to
pay for itself (mana source vs. destroy EFFECT), but you can't....same
with the Outpost (mana source vs. destro EFFECT)...
And for those who cry "Energy flux imposes an upkeep COST"--read the card.
There is no cost associated with the Flux under its 4E wording...
Ben
: Sorry Ben, but the land can be tapped for mana because nothing can stop a
: mana source.
: Later,
: Mario.
: >Thank you for your time,
: >Ben
: >
Michael Feuell
David Swasey <ps...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>BTW, I am actually Erik Lauer borrowing a friends account.
*great* :*)
>mfl...@mail2.sas.upenn.edu (Michael J Flores) writes:
>The Ray. Cool :). Why not the grasp? I don't understand why
>people don't like the grasp.
The Ray is a good card with Browse, provides some synergy. Either way you
want to leave 4 mana open. If you don't need it for RoC, you can go Browsing.
>>In the second game, Dixon pretty much owns me, and I concede when I have
>>around 14 life. If there's one thing about me, I know when I'm beaten,
>>and I won't waste anyone's precious time in a tournament dragging out a
>>game that I can't win. I really hate it when I am playing U/W control
>>and I lock somebody up really hard, and then I don't win for 30 turns.
>
>I agree completely. That is one reason I played speed today, to avoid
>that sillyness.
Agreed. I have a browse deck, I've been working on lately, not bad but it
takes too long to play a match. Will have to experiment with my new WW now.
>>In game 3, Bruce does this silly thing--he casts out an Ivory Gargoyle.
>>I know everyone thinks this card is good, but I think it is a joke, in
>
>Hey, my Ur browse deck killed plenty of people with Ivory gargoyles.
>2/3 fliers for 4 mana? It's no 5/6 hordes, but it's pretty good!
Uh, Abbey Gargoyle confused with Ivory Gargoyle?
>>Here comes Dystopia! Bruce has to sacrifice his Ivory Gargoyles to
>>Dystopia on his upkeep, and gets no draw phase. I of course smash him
>
>Bruce, wake up! Pay the 5 mana!
Wait, you do know the Gargoyle... :*)
>Eric did that outpost trick when he played me. I let him (and
>others), because I think that is correct. I think Tony is
>incorrect, but I respect that he will rule consistently for
>a the whole tourney. I assume Tony will check that out,
>and rule the other way next time though. I don't have a problem
>with the outpost mana trick.
It works. Also fun to do (in type ii) KO out a Land tax on the first turn.
Tony should have known the rules better.
>Lim Dul was obviously grateful to see his powerful servents getting so much
>use, I only lost 3 games all day. Two to drawing < 3 land in the first 6
>turns, one game to a 38 card consultation for necro with 4 in the deck (after
>sideboarding... I was playing against another necro deck). I figured before
>the tourney I would lose roughly two games to land hose or DC death.
Post a deck listing? Sounds like something I did when Al first came out.
-Michael
Daniel M Gray
rbl...@panix.com (Poker Face) writes:
>mario: Under the current wording of Energy flux (During your upkeep,
>destroy all artifacts: pay 2 to prevent blah blah blah), and under 5th
>edition rules, you SHOULD be able to, say, tap a sol ring for 2 mana to
>pay for itself (mana source vs. destroy EFFECT), but you can't....same
>with the Outpost (mana source vs. destro EFFECT)...
>And for those who cry "Energy flux imposes an upkeep COST"--read the card.
>There is no cost associated with the Flux under its 4E wording...
>Ben
First off, the 4E Energy Flux has errata, so it is imposing an
upkeep cost. THis means that there is no moment between the point you can't
use the Sol Ring because its upkeep has yet to be dealt with, and the moment
where it is in the graveyard because you haven't paid its cost. The
Alliances megalands launch a "coming into play" triggered effect. There is a
moment in between the land coming into play, and the launching of the TE
where you can tap a megaland for mana before dealing with the TE.
If you don't believe me, take the question over to .rules, where I'm
sure Tom, Dave, Dave, or Mike would be happy to point out the same ruling.
Dan Gray
Paul van Gool
rbl...@panix.com (Poker Face) wrote:
>Of course, anyone who says Tony ruled wrong should *NOT* be judging a
>qualifier.
The otherway around. Anyone who said that Tony (the judge) ruled right
should not be judging any tournament.
>May I point your attention to the fact that all pro-tour qualifiers are to
>be played by 5th edition rules.
Yes, this is true.
>Moreover, it has been ruled (as in 5th edition) that the damage prevention
>subphase is *NO LONGER* entered unless a creature has taken damage.
This also is true.
But: at any time you can tap a land for mana, this is the fastest
effect possible under 5th Edition rules.
So you are allowed to tap the Outpost for 1 white mana before it goes
to the graveyard.
>Under 4E rules, tapping the outpost for mana happened during this phase.
>Since this phase CAN NO LONGER BE ENTERED without something taking lethal
>damage (IE--burying the outpost is *NOT* lethal damage), the outpost
>*CANNOT* be tapped for mana.
Oh, yes it can. If you don't believe it ask Tom.
Jesse Chounard
Poker Face (rbl...@panix.com) wrote:
: mario: Under the current wording of Energy flux (During your upkeep,
: destroy all artifacts: pay 2 to prevent blah blah blah), and under 5th
: edition rules, you SHOULD be able to, say, tap a sol ring for 2 mana to
: pay for itself (mana source vs. destroy EFFECT), but you can't....same
: with the Outpost (mana source vs. destro EFFECT)...
: And for those who cry "Energy flux imposes an upkeep COST"--read the card.
: There is no cost associated with the Flux under its 4E wording...
: Ben
Ben,
You could-in the Energy Flux example-respond to the announcement
of the burial effect with tapping for mana. This works
by both 4th and 5th rules.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Jesse J. Chounard II jes...@umr.edu
"Friends don't let friends play Necro"
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Talvin
In article <53ve9h$g...@panix2.panix.com>, rbl...@panix.com (Poker Face)
writes:
>
>mario: Under the current wording of Energy flux (During your upkeep,
>destroy all artifacts: pay 2 to prevent blah blah blah), and under 5th
>edition rules, you SHOULD be able to, say, tap a sol ring for 2 mana to
>pay for itself (mana source vs. destroy EFFECT), but you can't....same
>with the Outpost (mana source vs. destro EFFECT)...
>
>And for those who cry "Energy flux imposes an upkeep COST"--read the
card.
>There is no cost associated with the Flux under its 4E wording...
>
>Ben
>
>
it says pay...during you upkeep yadda yadda yadda and therefore it is an
upkeep cost. As for the outpost Wylie has said that Mana sources are
legal as they are faster than triggered effects.
T.J. Xenos
Member-Team gonna beat the hell out of Nate Clarke
Designer of the Stone Giant/Flying Island Fish deck
Designer of the Arena/Legend Roman colliseum deck
Designer of Monkey Makes the World Go 'Round
Designer of Hippogeddon
The guy who collects Brothers of Fire and Dwarven Warriors