Abilities & color changing (painting a Tim)
Arno Beckmann
when the color of its source permanent changes?
Example:
I tap my (naturally blue) Tim to damage opp's target (untapped)
Mother of Runes. Opp taps MoR to give herself Prot:Blue.
I tap my Distorting Lens to color my Tim red.
Prodigal Sorcerer, 2U, Blue Creature - Wizard, 1/1
<T>: Prodigal Sorcerer deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
Mother of Runes, W, White Creature - Cleric, 1/1
<T>: Target creature you control gains protection from a
color of your choice until end of turn.
Distorting Lens, 2, Artifact
<T>: Target permanent becomes the color of your choice until end of
turn.
Isn't the Tim's ability on the stack independent from it's source
after activation, and so still blue and MoR's prot:blue still works?
Or does the color of the pseudospell depents on the color of the
source on resolution?
Thanks,
Arno
Patrik Linell
>Does the color of pseudospells (on the stack) changes,
>when the color of its source permanent changes?
Well, pseudospells often don't have a color, just a source. So
effectively the answer is yes.
>Example:
>I tap my (naturally blue) Tim to damage opp's target (untapped)
>Mother of Runes. Opp taps MoR to give herself Prot:Blue.
>I tap my Distorting Lens to color my Tim red.
>
>Prodigal Sorcerer, 2U, Blue Creature - Wizard, 1/1
><T>: Prodigal Sorcerer deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
>
>Mother of Runes, W, White Creature - Cleric, 1/1
><T>: Target creature you control gains protection from a
> color of your choice until end of turn.
>
>Distorting Lens, 2, Artifact
><T>: Target permanent becomes the color of your choice until end of
>turn.
>
>Isn't the Tim's ability on the stack independent from it's source
>after activation, and so still blue and MoR's prot:blue still works?
>Or does the color of the pseudospell depents on the color of the
>source on resolution?
The latter, so Mother of Runes is dead. When Prodigal Sorcerer's
ability resolves, it makes Prodigal Sorcerer deal 1 damage to Mother
of Runes. As Prodigal Sorcerer is now red, this is an ability from a
red source and damage from a red source. Dead Mother of Runes.
Patrik Linell
Theoretical DCI level 1 judge (practicality in process)
Arno Beckmann
> >Does the color of pseudospells (on the stack) changes,
> >when the color of its source permanent changes?
>
> Well, pseudospells often don't have a color, just a source. So
> effectively the answer is yes.
> >Isn't the Tim's ability on the stack independent from it's source
> >after activation, and so still blue and MoR's prot:blue still works?
> >Or does the color of the pseudospell depents on the color of the
> >source on resolution?
>
> The latter, so Mother of Runes is dead. When Prodigal Sorcerer's
> ability resolves, it makes Prodigal Sorcerer deal 1 damage to Mother
> of Runes. As Prodigal Sorcerer is now red, this is an ability from a
> red source and damage from a red source. Dead Mother of Runes.
Sorry, wrong example. Tim's ability says "t: Tim does ...",
so Tim's color on resolution is important here.
Okay, next example:
I pay UU and tap my Empress Galina to gain control of a target legend,
i.e. Dakkon Blackblade controlled by the opponent.
Opp taps his MoR to give Dakkon Blackblade Prot:Blue.
I tap my Distorting Lens to color my Empress Galina red.
Empress Galina, Blue Creature - Legend, 3UU, 1/3.
{U}{U},{Tap}: Gain control of target Legend or legendary permanent.
Dakkon Blackblade - Legend (rest is not important here)
What now? Dakkon to me or not?
Thanks,
Arno
Patrik Linell
>Patrik Linell schrieb:
>> >Does the color of pseudospells (on the stack) changes,
>> >when the color of its source permanent changes?
>>
>> Well, pseudospells often don't have a color, just a source. So
>> effectively the answer is yes.
>[..]
>> >Isn't the Tim's ability on the stack independent from it's source
>> >after activation, and so still blue and MoR's prot:blue still works?
>> >Or does the color of the pseudospell depents on the color of the
>> >source on resolution?
>>
>> The latter, so Mother of Runes is dead. When Prodigal Sorcerer's
>> ability resolves, it makes Prodigal Sorcerer deal 1 damage to Mother
>> of Runes. As Prodigal Sorcerer is now red, this is an ability from a
>> red source and damage from a red source. Dead Mother of Runes.
>
>Sorry, wrong example. Tim's ability says "t: Tim does ...",
>so Tim's color on resolution is important here.
It would have been anyway; my explanation may have been clumsy.
>Okay, next example:
>
>I pay UU and tap my Empress Galina to gain control of a target legend,
Empress Galina
3UU
Creature - Legend
1/3
UU, T: Gain control of target Legend or legendary permanent. #(This
effect doesn't end at end of turn.)#
>i.e. Dakkon Blackblade controlled by the opponent.
Dakkon Blackblade
2WUUB
Creature - Legend
*/*
Dakkon Blackblade's power and toughness are each equal to the number
of lands you control.
>Opp taps his MoR to give Dakkon Blackblade Prot:Blue.
Mother of Runes
W
Creature - Cleric
1/1
T: Target creature you control gains protection from the color of your
choice until end of turn.
>I tap my Distorting Lens to color my Empress Galina red.
Distorting Lens
2
Artifact
T: Target permanent becomes the color of your choice until end of
turn.
>What now? Dakkon to me or not?
Dakkon to you. When all is said and done, Empress Galina is red,
Dakkon Blackblade has protection from blue, and Empress Galina's
ability starts to resolve. In the process, it checks target legality,
and finds that the target is legal (it can be targeted by abilities
from red sources, and Empress Galina is a red source), so Dakkon
swiftly switches sides.
Aaron Huntsman
news:3B9B7A7E...@gmx.de...
>
> Okay, next example:
>
> I pay UU and tap my Empress Galina to gain control of a target legend,
> i.e. Dakkon Blackblade controlled by the opponent.
> Opp taps his MoR to give Dakkon Blackblade Prot:Blue.
> I tap my Distorting Lens to color my Empress Galina red.
>
> Empress Galina, Blue Creature - Legend, 3UU, 1/3.
> {U}{U},{Tap}: Gain control of target Legend or legendary permanent.
>
> Dakkon Blackblade - Legend (rest is not important here)
>
> What now? Dakkon to me or not?
Dakkon to you. Galina is no longer blue when its ability resolves, so
Dakkon's protection won't save it. This is pretty much the same as the Tim
example.
This was a fairly big change from pre-6th rules. A pseudospell checks the
characteristics of its source constantly, or uses the source's LKI if it
leaves play. Tim no longer throws grenades...he throws a yo-yo. If Tim
changes color, his yo-yo also changes color. If Tim dies after he throws
it, the yo-yo string breaks off, and the yo-yo stays whatever color Tim was,
but it will still hit whatever it's targetting.
Empress Galina also wields a yo-yo even though she doesn't deal damage. If
she's red when her ability resolves, her yo-yo will snag a Legend that has
pro-blue.
-AMH
David DeLaney
>Does the color of pseudospells (on the stack) changes,
>when the color of its source permanent changes?
No, BUT nothing in the game -cares- what color the pseudospell might be.
If something's asking about damage, it asks about the -source- of the
damage... which is always a spell, permanent, or card, never a pseudospell.
(Abilities never deal damage by themselves; they always say that something
else does so.)
>Example:
>
>I tap my (naturally blue) Tim to damage opp's target (untapped)
>Mother of Runes. Opp taps MoR to give herself Prot:Blue.
>I tap my Distorting Lens to color my Tim red.
Then, assuming Mom is used in response to Tim's ability and the DL is used in
response to Mom's, when Tim's ability resolves Tim is red. So when Tim's
ability says "Prodigal Sorcerer, deal 1 damage to target creature or player",
that's damage from a red source. (It's not 'red damage'; it's not 'damage
from a red ability' either. The -source- of the damage is what's told to
deal it: Tim. And Tim is currently red. So this is damage from a red source>)
>Isn't the Tim's ability on the stack independent from it's source
>after activation, and so still blue and MoR's prot:blue still works?
The ability is 'still blue'. But that has nothing to do with the color of
the source of the damage... which the ability states is Tim itself.
>Or does the color of the pseudospell depents on the color of the
>source on resolution?
The color of the pseudospell doesn't - but you're not asking the right
question. ProBlue doesn't say "Prevent all damage from blue abilities";
it says "prevent all damage from blue -sources-". It also says 'can't
be the target of blue spells, or of -abilities from a blue source-'; this
part ALSO doesn't care "what color is the ability", only what color the
ability's -source- is. And that source is presently red, so the ability
doesn't get countered, and deals 1 damage to Mom.
(Yes, it -used to be- that protection from Foo said "can't be the target of
FOO spells or abilities"... but that wording Didn't Work Right for things
like protection from artifacts; there's no such thing as an 'ability that is
an artifact'. So it finally got put to a wording that works correctly, "can't
be the target of FOO spells or of abilities from FOO sources".)
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
David DeLaney
>Sorry, wrong example. Tim's ability says "t: Tim does ...",
>so Tim's color on resolution is important here.
For two reasons.
>Okay, next example:
>
>I pay UU and tap my Empress Galina to gain control of a target legend,
>i.e. Dakkon Blackblade controlled by the opponent.
>Opp taps his MoR to give Dakkon Blackblade Prot:Blue.
>I tap my Distorting Lens to color my Empress Galina red.
Here it's only important for one reason, but that's still crucial: Empress
Galina's ability is now an ability from a red source... which is what
Pro_Red_ would care about. ProBlue doesn't... and doesn't counter the ability.
You get control of his Dakkon.