4 Questions
Hemispheres
I've got a bunch of rules questions that have cropped up over our
last few home games. Multiplayer, Type 1. Unfortunately I don't
remember all the names of the cards that were being used in the
questions below, but any answers appreciated.
We all remember the classic Astral Slide decks, where you could
cycle and slide a creature out at the end of a turn, and that
creature would not return until the end of the next player's
turn. So question one, do "until end of turn" effects work the
same way? For example, a player was about to die, but wanted to
activate an ability of a creature to give a team mate's creature
trample, hoping that the effect would last through the next
turn. The trample ability lasted "until end of turn". My guess is
no, this doesn't work, because "until" and "at" are two different
things.
Question two. A player used Sorceress Queen's activated ability on
an opponent's creature that had a +1/+1 counter on it. Seems like
one of those layer rules come into play here. Is the creature a
0/2, or 1/3?
Sorceress Queen
{TAP}: Target creature other than Sorceress Queen becomes 0/2
until end of turn.
Question three. An opponent was playing a thief deck and stole a
piece of equipment I had in play and then equipped it to one of
his creatures. The card read "Gain control of target permanent
until end of turn." So at end of turn, does the equipment move
back to my side of the board, un-equipping itself from his
creature, or do I need to spend mana to re-equip it back over to
one of my creatures?
Last question. I've got a Spirit reanimator deck, using many of
the nasty dragons from the Kamigawa block, and Patriarch's
Bidding. Two Yosei, the Morning Star's come into play, and then
head right back to the graveyard. Can I target the same player
twice, so that he skips his next two untap steps (i.e. the skip
effect stacks)?
Yosei, the Morning Star
Flying
When Yosei, the Morning Star is put into a graveyard from play,
target player skips his or her next untap step. Tap up to five
target permanents that player controls.
Thanks!
David DeLaney
>I've got a bunch of rules questions that have cropped up over our
>last few home games. Multiplayer, Type 1. Unfortunately I don't
>remember all the names of the cards that were being used in the
>questions below, but any answers appreciated.
>
>We all remember the classic Astral Slide decks, where you could
>cycle and slide a creature out at the end of a turn, and that
>creature would not return until the end of the next player's
>turn. So question one, do "until end of turn" effects work the
>same way?
Nope. (Yes, that's a general answer.)
Stuff done "at end of turn" is a triggered, or delayed triggered, ability,
and triggers as End of Turn step, first step in End phase, starts. This
means it resolves some time during that step, and there will be more of that
step available afterwards for players to add stuff to the stack that turn;
in particular, if you add NEW "at end of turn" stuff -during- End phase, it
won't trigger until the next turn's End phase starts.
Stuff that has a duration lasting "until end of turn" _wears off_ during
cleanup step (after active player discards, if they need to). Each turn's
last cleanup step has NO time during it when any player gets priority, so
there's no way to end a turn with "until end of turn" stuff still running its
duration. A new turn will always start without any "until end of turn"-duration
effects around.
So in general, all 'at end of turn' stuff is dealt with before any 'until
end of turn' stuff can wear off; if new 'at end of turn stuff' appears after
End phase _starts_, it waits until the next End phase to get processed, but
new 'until end of turn' stuff will ALWAYS be gone by the time End phase _ends_.
>For example, a player was about to die, but wanted to
>activate an ability of a creature to give a team mate's creature
>trample, hoping that the effect would last through the next
>turn. The trample ability lasted "until end of turn". My guess is
>no, this doesn't work, because "until" and "at" are two different things.
Basically yes; more specifically, because 313.* and 314.* specify how to
handle the two, and they're handled at different times in End phase.
>Question two. A player used Sorceress Queen's activated ability on
>an opponent's creature that had a +1/+1 counter on it. Seems like
>one of those layer rules come into play here. Is the creature a 0/2, or 1/3?
It is a 1/3. 418.5a, if you can stay awake through the whole few paragraphs,
tells you how to handle these; a +1/+1 counter is applied in layer 6c, and
a "set the power and toughness of this, which is not always me, to such and
such" is applied in layer 6b, just under it.
So the counter always applies "on top of" the Sorceress Queen effect.
>Question three. An opponent was playing a thief deck and stole a
>piece of equipment I had in play and then equipped it to one of
>his creatures. The card read "Gain control of target permanent
>until end of turn." So at end of turn, does the equipment move
>back to my side of the board, un-equipping itself from his
>creature, or do I need to spend mana to re-equip it back over to
>one of my creatures?
The stealing (which almost has to be from Word of Seizing; Donate and
Legerdemain don't have a duration, and other stuff doesn't target a
'permanent' ... Confusion in the Ranks also doesn't have a duration - oh,
okay, could also be Dominus of Fealty) wears off at end of turn...
[... oh GOODY, they've ruined Gatherer's usefulness forever. Bleah. I now
see NO WAY AT ALL to get a nice compact TEXT-ONLY list of all cards in a set,
let alone all cards in all sets together. What a wonderful way to restrict
people from having offline access to information, WotC! No, I don't want to
save entire web pages with pictures of each card and helpful colored text;
I just want a text-only list. Gah.]
Word of Seizing 3RR Instant
Split second (*) Untap target permanent and gain control of it until end of
turn. It gains haste until end of turn.
Dominus of Fealty (U/R)(U/R)(U/R)(U/R)(U/R) Creature - Spirit Avatar
4/4 Flying At the beginning of your upkeep, you may gain control of target
permanent until end of turn. If you do, untap it and it gains haste until end
of turn.
If one of these is used to gain control of an Equipment, the effect wears off
in cleanup step; at that point, the Equipment is now attached to a creature
controlled by someone other than the Equipment's controller. THIS DOES NOT
UNATTACH THE EQUIPMENT in any way. It is NOT illegal for an Equipment to
sit attached to someone else's permanent - it's just fairly uncommon, because
the Equip ability _targets_ a permanent you control (and doesn't wear off),
so you have to find some other way to have your Equipment end up on something
you don't control.
This is such a way; after the stealing effect wears off, you now control an
Equipment attached to one of his creatures. It does not automatically
un-attach; some things about what it does to or for the creature MAY change
depending on its text's wording. You may, if you wish, wait until your
next Main phase (since the Equip ability can only be used when you could use
a sorcery), then re-Equip the equipment to target creature you control.
(You could also use some other effect that says to attach the Equipment to
a creature you control.)
But no, you don't automatically get the Equipment back, nor does it
automatically 'fall off' in this situation. You can re-Equip it the next
time it's legal to do so, but that's not right this second.
>Last question. I've got a Spirit reanimator deck, using many of
>the nasty dragons from the Kamigawa block, and Patriarch's
>Bidding. Two Yosei, the Morning Star's come into play, and then
>head right back to the graveyard. Can I target the same player
>twice, so that he skips his next two untap steps (i.e. the skip
>effect stacks)?
>
>Yosei, the Morning Star Flying
>When Yosei, the Morning Star is put into a graveyard from play,
>target player skips his or her next untap step. Tap up to five
>target permanents that player controls.
You may certainly target the same player with the abilities from both Yoseis
- they trigger at the same time, and assuming they both came into play under
your control before killing each other through the power of Legendary, you'll
control both triggered abilities. And yes, multiple "skip your next Foo step"
instructions cause a player to skip their next that-many Foo steps; skipping
a step is a replacement effect, done just before the step would start, and
replacement effects are applied one at a time, one after another, until no
applicable ones remain. So applying one "skip your next untap step" effect
means any others that are waiting to apply can't apply this turn, so they
wait around until they can apply (which will generally be your NEXT turn's
untap step). See how that works?
So yes, that works fine, and works that way.
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Zoe Stephenson
> Hi all,
> I've got a bunch of rules questions that have cropped up over our
> last few home games. Multiplayer, Type 1. Unfortunately I don't
> remember all the names of the cards that were being used in the
> questions below, but any answers appreciated.
> We all remember the classic Astral Slide decks, where you could
> cycle and slide a creature out at the end of a turn, and that
> creature would not return until the end of the next player's
> turn. So question one, do "until end of turn" effects work the
> same way? For example, a player was about to die, but wanted to
> activate an ability of a creature to give a team mate's creature
> trample, hoping that the effect would last through the next
> turn. The trample ability lasted "until end of turn". My guess is
> no, this doesn't work, because "until" and "at" are two different
> things.
Exactly right. "At end of turn" is a triggered ability that triggers
at the beginning of the End of Turn Step in the End Phase. If an
effect resolves during that step that sets up a delayed "at end of turn"
trigger, it will trigger the next time you move into the End of Turn
Step from a different step.
"Until end of turn" is a duration for an effect. It wears off as you
get into the Cleanup Step in the End Phase, which is the last step of
the turn. There's currently no way outside of silver-border land to
get an effect with this sort of duration to last from one turn to the
next. Even if you end up setting off such an effect in the Cleanup
Step (which can happen under certain conditions) you'll find that
there's another Cleanup Step that follows it - they keep coming until
there's a Cleanup Step in which nobody gets priority, and only then can
the next turn begin.
> Question two. A player used Sorceress Queen's activated ability on
> an opponent's creature that had a +1/+1 counter on it. Seems like
> one of those layer rules come into play here. Is the creature a
> 0/2, or 1/3?
1/3. There are several things that always apply on top of an ability
like that of Sorceress Queen - power/toughness adjusting counters,
power/toughness adjusting static abilities (e.g. Crusade) and
power/toughness switching effects. Other adjustments and settings will
generally apply in the order in which they resolved.
> Sorceress Queen
> {TAP}: Target creature other than Sorceress Queen becomes 0/2
> until end of turn.
> Question three. An opponent was playing a thief deck and stole a
> piece of equipment I had in play and then equipped it to one of
> his creatures. The card read "Gain control of target permanent
> until end of turn." So at end of turn, does the equipment move
> back to my side of the board, un-equipping itself from his
> creature, or do I need to spend mana to re-equip it back over to
> one of my creatures?
There's nothing stopping an Equipment from equipping something its
controller doesn't control. However, there's only a few ways to make
this happen, as the equip ability can only target something that its
controller controls. The scenario you outline above is probably the
most common case where the controller of the Equipment and the
creature being equipped are different.
All that happens is that control of the Equipment changes back to you.
You don't put it back on your side of the table any more than you would
one of your Auras enchanting an opponent's permanent. However, once it
gets to your turn you'll be able to play its equip ability and attach
it to a creature you control again.
> Last question. I've got a Spirit reanimator deck, using many of
> the nasty dragons from the Kamigawa block, and Patriarch's
> Bidding. Two Yosei, the Morning Star's come into play, and then
> head right back to the graveyard. Can I target the same player
> twice, so that he skips his next two untap steps (i.e. the skip
> effect stacks)?
> Yosei, the Morning Star
> Flying
> When Yosei, the Morning Star is put into a graveyard from play,
> target player skips his or her next untap step. Tap up to five
> target permanents that player controls.
You can target the same player twice. They'll get up to ten permanents
tapped once both the triggers resolve, and they'll have two "skip your
next untap step" effects. The rules for skipping make it clear what you
do in this case:
419.6f Anything scheduled for a skipped step, phase, or turn won't
happen. Anything scheduled for the "next" occurrence of something
waits for the first occurrence that isn't skipped. If two effects
each cause a player to skip his or her next occurrence, that player
must skip the next two; one effect will be satisfied in skipping the
first occurrence, while the other will remain until another
occurrence can be skipped.
So, it'll be the next two that are skipped.
--
-- Zoe Stephenson, NetRep rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules
Group FAQ: http://www.daeghnao.com/magic/faq/ --
--
Zoe Stephenson
> [... oh GOODY, they've ruined Gatherer's usefulness forever. Bleah. I now
> see NO WAY AT ALL to get a nice compact TEXT-ONLY list of all cards in a set,
> let alone all cards in all sets together. What a wonderful way to restrict
> people from having offline access to information, WotC! No, I don't want to
> save entire web pages with pictures of each card and helpful colored text;
> I just want a text-only list. Gah.]
I can just about cope with the new site but I did add a comment about
this particular issue on the discussion forum when it was in beta. Are
there enough good reasons to try to campaign more strongly for this
feature?
David DeLaney
>David DeLaney <d...@gatekeeper.vic.com> sent:
>> [... oh GOODY, they've ruined Gatherer's usefulness forever. Bleah. I now
>> see NO WAY AT ALL to get a nice compact TEXT-ONLY list of all cards in a set,
>> let alone all cards in all sets together. What a wonderful way to restrict
>> people from having offline access to information, WotC! No, I don't want to
>> save entire web pages with pictures of each card and helpful colored text;
>> I just want a text-only list. Gah.]
>
>I can just about cope with the new site but I did add a comment about
>this particular issue on the discussion forum when it was in beta. Are
>there enough good reasons to try to campaign more strongly for this feature?
Yes please. The major reasons? Text-only will display the same on _any_ system
and doesn't involve large amounts of bloat in the webpage or the file-to-be-
saved.
(In fact, it would be a good idea for them to have a text-only
_pregenerated_ file for each of the more recent sets plus Legacy plus Standard
(updating as needed of course), because one of the things Gatherer SHOULD be
being used for is to get an entire set, block, or format's worth of cards at a
time ... and, at present, it does this by searching the database (and for
Legacy, or any similar search that's trying to make sure it gets 'all cards
ever' by selecting all colors, or selecting all card types, etc., this takes
Forever).)
Making sure they HAD a text-only version of their output was one of my pet
peeves just about from the start. Having the little pictures? Nice feature.
Having little graphics exactly reproducing a mana symbol or an expansion
symbol? Cute. Being able to download the whole Oracle _easily_ and without
display-dependent/program-dependent/viewer-dependent included bits? Literally
_priceless_, especially for judges judging a tournament. Especially when you
can fit it all into 2.3Mb, even today, as text...
[I do have to give them a goldstar for finally fixing the 'it will print out
one entry for each time a card has appeared in a set' bug - thanks.]
Daniel W. Johnson
> [... oh GOODY, they've ruined Gatherer's usefulness forever. Bleah. I now
> see NO WAY AT ALL to get a nice compact TEXT-ONLY list of all cards in a set,
> let alone all cards in all sets together. What a wonderful way to restrict
> people from having offline access to information, WotC! No, I don't want to
> save entire web pages with pictures of each card and helpful colored text;
> I just want a text-only list. Gah.]
Have you tried "Select Output Format" as "Text Spoiler"?
--
Daniel W. Johnson
pano...@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 35 N / 086 11 53 W
David DeLaney
>David DeLaney <d...@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote:
>> [... oh GOODY, they've ruined Gatherer's usefulness forever. Bleah. I now
>> see NO WAY AT ALL to get a nice compact TEXT-ONLY list of all cards in a set,
>> let alone all cards in all sets together. What a wonderful way to restrict
>> people from having offline access to information, WotC! No, I don't want to
>> save entire web pages with pictures of each card and helpful colored text;
>> I just want a text-only list. Gah.]
>
>Have you tried "Select Output Format" as "Text Spoiler"?
I have. And since my intent was to download the entire Oracle as currently
updated? Generating the webpage, in text-format output, all in a big text glob
in the middle of a happily colorful screen that still has widgets and links
all round the edges, takes about ten minutes. That's just Not Right as an
efficiency measure.
(Fortunately, while trying to make the browser Select All takes another five
or ten minutes and ultimately fails, having the browser Save the webpage As
a text file once the text-spoiler output IS up there is fairly quick and you
can edit out the annoying bits at the start and end. Editing out the annoying
" Name: ", " Cost: ", etc., on EACH AND EVERY ENTRY takes a little
longer - translated, this means that their text output is formatted the way
THEY think might possibly be useful to someone, perhaps a someone that no
longer even works there, rather than the way _I_ want it formatted. But at
least it's text-only.)
So yeah, I did find a way to get a text-only file out of it, but it involves
steps that really rather defeat the purpose of having a database that could
output in text-only format where needed.
Hemispheres
along to my group!
- Hemispheres
dave n ant
> [I do have to give them a goldstar for finally fixing the
> 'it will print out one entry for each time a card has
> appeared in a set' bug - thanks.]
>
> Dave
it was in the set when you have it print out a set? Seems like
when I print out a set, any reprints listed in the set come out
with the rarity they currently have, rather than what the rarity
was when the set came out, and I care what it was then, for the
set.
Also, I believe I remember back when I could get a delimited
output of text, which I used to import directly into Excel. This
made it easy for me to sort by rarity, or color, or card number,
so I didn't have to do a lot of shuffling around to get a
particular result. Is that possible now? thanks, -dna
Zoe Stephenson
> > [I do have to give them a goldstar for finally fixing the
> > 'it will print out one entry for each time a card has
> > appeared in a set' bug - thanks.]
> >
> > Dave
> Is there any way to have it print out the rarity of the card as
> it was in the set when you have it print out a set? Seems like
> when I print out a set, any reprints listed in the set come out
> with the rarity they currently have, rather than what the rarity
> was when the set came out, and I care what it was then, for the
> set.
I just tried a bunch of searches, and I can't reproduce this feature.
When I list a set, I see:
Standard view - all printings
Compact view - all printings
Checklist view - just the rarity for the search set
Visual spoiler - no rarities
Text spoiler - all printings
Can you provide a specific case so I can look into it further?
> Also, I believe I remember back when I could get a delimited
> output of text, which I used to import directly into Excel. This
> made it easy for me to sort by rarity, or color, or card number,
> so I didn't have to do a lot of shuffling around to get a
> particular result. Is that possible now?
I don't think that's possible from Gatherer, no. From my general
understanding of Gatherer, I'd say it's unlikely that they'd ever
offer such a feature in the future. Maybe some enterprising soul
has the information in the form you're after though?
http://www.crystalkeep.com/magic/lists/text.php
dave n ant
>
>> > [I do have to give them a goldstar for finally fixing
>> > the 'it will print out one entry for each time a card
>> > has appeared in a set' bug - thanks.]
>> >
>> > Dave
>> Is there any way to have it print out the rarity of the
>> card as it was in the set when you have it print out a
>> set? Seems like when I print out a set, any reprints
>> listed in the set come out with the rarity they currently
>> have, rather than what the rarity was when the set came
>> out, and I care what it was then, for the set.
>
> I just tried a bunch of searches, and I can't reproduce
> this feature. When I list a set, I see:
>
> Standard view - all printings
> Compact view - all printings
> Checklist view - just the rarity for the search set
> Visual spoiler - no rarities
> Text spoiler - all printings
>
> Can you provide a specific case so I can look into it
> further?
>
Note: the first part of what I quoted above is quoting dave,
who has been around since before I first started reading this
group, back around Stronghold, seems like, or at least Urza's.
It was, I believe, Dave giving out the goldstar, not myself.
>> ... I believe I remember back when I could get a
>> delimited output of text, which I used to import directly
>> into Excel. This made it easy for me to sort by rarity, or
>> color, or card number, so I didn't have to do a lot of
>> shuffling around to get a particular result. Is that
>> possible now?
>
> I don't think that's possible from Gatherer, no. From my
> general understanding of Gatherer, I'd say it's unlikely
> that they'd ever offer such a feature in the future. Maybe
> some enterprising soul has the information in the form
> you're after though?
>
> http://www.crystalkeep.com/magic/lists/text.php
>
Sure, crystal keep, I was definitely sad when he quit doing
that for magic releases. But that reminds me that I believe he
still did that for Stronghold, and I could go back and get
that list anyway. Thank you very much, I do appreciate that
reminder. take care, -dna
David DeLaney
>>> > [I do have to give them a goldstar for finally fixing
>>> > the 'it will print out one entry for each time a card
>>> > has appeared in a set' bug - thanks.]
>>> >
>>> > Dave
>Note: the first part of what I quoted above is quoting dave,
>who has been around since before I first started reading this
>group, back around Stronghold, seems like, or at least Urza's.
Psst. Try Antiquities.
>It was, I believe, Dave giving out the goldstar, not myself.
Si.
But it still loses several million for _not having a simple text-output option_
included.
>Sure, crystal keep, I was definitely sad when he quit doing
>that for magic releases. But that reminds me that I believe he
>still did that for Stronghold, and I could go back and get
>that list anyway. Thank you very much, I do appreciate that
>reminder. take care, -dna
I've been turning Oracle output -into- cardtext lists for quite a while,
so you can basically grab any set up to probably one or two back from
my webpage, still ... but you'll get the Oracle text it had within a few
months after it was released. I haven't added a full Oracle text version
grab to that page in quite a while, though I've been getting them for myself
every so often. (How? Well, it takes some judicious selection on the
Advanced pages of Gatherer to make sure it shows you EVERY POSSIBLE CARD
that could possibly be included - and you still have to add in Super Secret
Tech by hand, GRARRR - then you wait about half an hour for the entire page
to load, CAREFULLY copy it with the web browser cut/paste commands (so that
the web browser doesn't die while you do it), then paste that into WordPad...)
David DeLaney
>dave n ant <not...@thisplace.com> wrote:
>>> dave n ant <not...@thisplace.com> sent:
>>>> [I] wrote"
>>>> > [I do have to give them a goldstar for finally fixing
>>>> > the 'it will print out one entry for each time a card
>>>> > has appeared in a set' bug - thanks.]
>>>> >
>>>> > Dave
>
>>Note: the first part of what I quoted above is quoting dave,
>>who has been around since before I first started reading this
>>group, back around Stronghold, seems like, or at least Urza's.
>
>Psst. Try Antiquities.
...oh, when YOU started reading. Never mind!
Zoe Stephenson
> >> > [I do have to give them a goldstar for finally fixing
> >> > the 'it will print out one entry for each time a card
> >> > has appeared in a set' bug - thanks.]
> >> >
> >> > Dave
> >> Is there any way to have it print out the rarity of the
> >> card as it was in the set when you have it print out a
> >> set? Seems like when I print out a set, any reprints
> >> listed in the set come out with the rarity they currently
> >> have, rather than what the rarity was when the set came
> >> out, and I care what it was then, for the set.
> >
> > I just tried a bunch of searches, and I can't reproduce
> > this feature. When I list a set, I see:
> >
> > Standard view - all printings
> > Compact view - all printings
> > Checklist view - just the rarity for the search set
> > Visual spoiler - no rarities
> > Text spoiler - all printings
> >
> > Can you provide a specific case so I can look into it
> > further?
> >
> Note: the first part of what I quoted above is quoting dave,
> who has been around since before I first started reading this
> group, back around Stronghold, seems like, or at least Urza's.
> It was, I believe, Dave giving out the goldstar, not myself.
Dave DeLaney is from way before me, that's for sure. I only started
playing the game in 1995, and didn't hit Usenet until quite some time
later.
I've fixed up some quick attributions above to clarify what's what,
hope that's OK with everyone. dna, maybe you could look into getting
your client to automatically insert attributions?
And finally, since you didn't provide a specific case, I'm not sure
what more I can do with this part of the query. Let me know if it
needs taking up again.
[dna]
> >> ... I believe I remember back when I could get a
> >> delimited output of text, which I used to import directly
> >> into Excel. This made it easy for me to sort by rarity, or
> >> color, or card number, so I didn't have to do a lot of
> >> shuffling around to get a particular result. Is that
> >> possible now?
> >
> > I don't think that's possible from Gatherer, no. From my
> > general understanding of Gatherer, I'd say it's unlikely
> > that they'd ever offer such a feature in the future. Maybe
> > some enterprising soul has the information in the form
> > you're after though?
> >
> > http://www.crystalkeep.com/magic/lists/text.php
> >
> Sure, crystal keep, I was definitely sad when he quit doing
> that for magic releases. But that reminds me that I believe he
> still did that for Stronghold, and I could go back and get
> that list anyway. Thank you very much, I do appreciate that
> reminder. take care, -dna
He restarted a while back. The lists look to be pretty current at
the moment, and there's a tab-delimited version of each of the lists
there that could be grokked by Excel just fine.
Thijs van Ommen
> I've been turning Oracle output -into- cardtext lists for quite a while,
> so you can basically grab any set up to probably one or two back from
> my webpage, still ... but you'll get the Oracle text it had within a few
> months after it was released. I haven't added a full Oracle text version
> grab to that page in quite a while, though I've been getting them for myself
> every so often. (How? Well, it takes some judicious selection on the
> Advanced pages of Gatherer to make sure it shows you EVERY POSSIBLE CARD
> that could possibly be included - and you still have to add in Super Secret
> Tech by hand, GRARRR - then you wait about half an hour for the entire page
> to load, CAREFULLY copy it with the web browser cut/paste commands (so that
> the web browser doesn't die while you do it), then paste that into WordPad...)
I usually query Gatherer for " " (space within quotation marks) with
Name/Types/Text all checked. That gets me 10880 cards right now, which
includes Super Secret Tech. I'm aware of two cards that this query
misses: the Elemental and Goblin tokens from Elves vs. Goblins. (The
token cards from other duel decks - including the new Garruk vs.
Liliana - mysteriously *are* included.) That brings the total to
10882. Is that also the number you get with your query on the Advanced
page?
I can live with the format of Gatherer's output... if I could be sure
that my queries aren't missing something important.
dave n ant
>> Sure, crystal keep, I was definitely sad when he quit
>> doing that for magic releases. But that reminds me that I
>> believe he still did that for Stronghold, and I could go
>> back and get that list anyway. Thank you very much, I do
>> appreciate that reminder. take care, -dna
>
> He restarted a while back. The lists look to be pretty
> current at the moment, and there's a tab-delimited version
> of each of the lists there that could be grokked by Excel
> just fine.
>
on to my ISP, so I haven't gone back for Stronghold yet. (Thanks
also for the tip about the tab-delimited lists, that's easy
enough that even I can handle it. It always takes me a long time
to edit spoilers into delimited files so I can import into a
spreadsheet). Thanks again, -dna