(LSJ) Gift of Bellona + Dagger
floppyzedolfin
Suppose my vampire's equip with Dagger from hand action is blocked.
He plays Gift of Bellona and equips with the Dagger.
Can I "put a second Dagger from my hand or ash heap" on the acting
vampire?
I think I can't, since I'm not equipping this Dagger from my hand but
from the limbo.
Thanks
~~
Dagger
Cardtype: Equipment
Cost: 1 pool
Melee weapon. Cold iron.
You may put a second Dagger from your hand or ash heap on this minion
when you equip this Dagger from your hand. Strike: strength+1 damage.
Alternatively, strike: strength ranged damage and, after strike
resolution, put this weapon out of play until the end of the action.
Burn this weapon if any damage from it is prevented.
Gift of Bellona
Cardtype: Action Modifier
Discipline: Valeren/Auspex
[aus] If this action is blocked, your hand size is one card larger
during the resulting combat.
[val] Only usable when an action to equip with a weapon is successful.
Untap this acting vampire.
[VAL] Only usable when an action to equip with a weapon from your hand
is blocked. Before combat begins, equip this vampire with the weapon
instead of placing it in your ash heap (pay cost as normal). During
the first round of this combat, that weapon cannot be used.
LSJ
> Suppose my vampire's equip with Dagger from hand action is blocked.
> He plays Gift of Bellona and equips with the Dagger.
>
> Can I "put a second Dagger from my hand or ash heap" on the acting
> vampire?
Yes.
> I think I can't, since I'm not equipping this Dagger from my hand but
> from the limbo.
This is true ("from limbo") in the usual non-blocked case as well. No
difference here.
Darby Keeney
> On Apr 21, 2:30 pm, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Suppose my vampire's equip with Dagger from hand action is blocked.
> > He plays Gift of Bellona and equips with the Dagger.
>
> > Can I "put a second Dagger from my hand or ash heap" on the acting
> > vampire?
>
> Yes.
Presumably, the same would apply to Pier 13 "equipping" - that is to
say you would get 2 daggers, assuming that there were a second copy
either in your hand or ash heap. (reasoning, card text, Pier 13 uses
both the "equip" and "from your hand" language).
Pier 13, Port of Baltimore
Type: Equipment
Cost: 2 blood
This equipment card represents a unique location and does not count as
equipment while in play.
During your influence phase, this minion may equip with a non-
location, non-unique equipment card from your hand (requirements and
cost apply as normal). This is not an action and cannot be blocked.
LSJ
> On Apr 21, 12:43 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 21, 2:30 pm, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Suppose my vampire's equip with Dagger from hand action is blocked.
> > > He plays Gift of Bellona and equips with the Dagger.
>
> > > Can I "put a second Dagger from my hand or ash heap" on the acting
> > > vampire?
>
> > Yes.
>
> Presumably, the same would apply to Pier 13 "equipping" - that is to
> say you would get 2 daggers, assuming that there were a second copy
> either in your hand or ash heap. (reasoning, card text, Pier 13 uses
> both the "equip" and "from your hand" language).
Correct.
Abdul alHazred
>
> - Visa citerad text -
And just to have it in LSJ-print:
- If vampire X try to equip a dagger, get blocked plays Gift of
Bellona and equips with a second dagger can vampire X can strike with
the second dagger in the first round of combat?
Juggernaut1981
>
> - Show quoted text -
LSJ,
Is the 2nd Dagger usable during the first round of combat? Gift of
Bellona suggests that only the original is affected by the "cannot be
used" text.
floppyzedolfin
He doesn't "equip" with the second Dagger - it gets put on him.
There's no restriction whatsoever regarding the use of weapons other
than the weapon equipped via Gift of Bellona during the first round of
combat.
LSJ
Correct.
(And even Dagger's card text said the second Dagger were "equipped",
Gift of Bellona's text still wouldn't affect that second Dagger; That
is, it isn't a matter of Dagger's text; it's a matter of Gift's text:
"that weapon").
floppyzedolfin
> On Apr 21, 2:30 pm, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Suppose my vampire's equip with Dagger from hand action is blocked.
> > He plays Gift of Bellona and equips with the Dagger.
>
> > Can I "put a second Dagger from my hand or ash heap" on the acting
> > vampire?
>
> Yes.
>
> > I think I can't, since I'm not equipping this Dagger from my hand but
> > from the limbo.
>
> This is true ("from limbo") in the usual non-blocked case as well. No
> difference here.
>
Well, I see a difference.
In the first case, the card was in the hand when the equipping was
announced. I think that's what makes it "equipped from hand".
In the second case, the card was in the limbo when the equipping was
announced. I think that's what makes it not "equipped from hand".
a - Is this definition of "limbo" correct: a place where cards that
are currently played are moved to, while transferring from the place
they used to be in ("hand, in most cases) to their destination
(usually "in play", "on vampire X") ?
This definition want to make "hand" and "limbo" distinct - that is, if
a card is in the limbo, it is *not* in the hand, and vice versa.
b/ Why is equipping via Gift of Bellona considered to be "equipping
from hand" ?
LSJ
> On Apr 21, 8:43 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> > On Apr 21, 2:30 pm, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Suppose my vampire's equip with Dagger from hand action is blocked.
> > > He plays Gift of Bellona and equips with the Dagger.
> > > Can I "put a second Dagger from my hand or ash heap" on the acting
> > > vampire?
> > Yes.
>
> > > I think I can't, since I'm not equipping this Dagger from my hand but
> > > from the limbo.
> > This is true ("from limbo") in the usual non-blocked case as well. No
> > difference here.
>
> Well, I see a difference.
> In the first case, the card was in the hand when the equipping was
> announced. I think that's what makes it "equipped from hand".
Plausible.
But equipping from the hand (via limbo) is what does it.
Limbo is only the place name given to a motion with a duration.
(Avoids getting things more complicated than they already are)
> In the second case, the card was in the limbo when the equipping was
> announced. I think that's what makes it not "equipped from hand".
It was still equipped from the hand, via limbo (that is, via a non-
instantaneous movement).
LSJ
> But equipping from the hand (via limbo) is what does it.
> Limbo is only the place name given to a motion with a duration.
> (Avoids getting things more complicated than they already are)
Note also that Form of Misting your blocked equip Dagger action moves
the Dagger from the ash heap back to limbo. In this case, the limbo is
still the "from your hand" limbo (that is, Misting moves the card from
A instantly to B; A: the ash heap; B: the non-instantaneous motion
from in hand to in play, which is "where" the card would be "if
unblocked").
Meaning that, if the action is successful, you get a second Dagger
(rather than being denied the second Dagger because Misting brought
the equipment in from the ash heap).
Kevin M.
> Limbo is only the place name given to a motion with a duration.
> (Avoids getting things more complicated than they already are)
Would 'limbo' be the place where played cards wait to be canceled?
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
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LSJ
> LSJ wrote:
> > Limbo is only the place name given to a motion with a duration.
> > (Avoids getting things more complicated than they already are)
>
> Would 'limbo' be the place where played cards wait to be canceled?
You mean when they're canceled "as played"?
Sure, if you like.
But that's more likely to be in the "being played" place (or "in the
grasp of the fingers[asterisk]") than what we normally mean by limbo,
since playing a card is typically viewed as an instantaneous event
(with canceling effects being a sort of interrupt to that
instantaneous event). In contrast to the relatively long time between
playing an action card and resolving the action card.
Juggernaut1981
Yeah, Limbo is the "when I dump it on the table and let everybody know
what I'm doing before I bother placing it in the ash-heap or 'into
play' properly".