Wake, Rewind Time, Cancel a Master, possible?
Rehlow
Freshness and then play Rewind Time at inf temporis to cancel an
action card, but I didn't see any replied by LSJ directly that you can
do the same to cancel a master card when playing at superior. I also
know LSJ sometimes doesn't clarify with a correct unless someone asks
for it. This will have a pretty big effect on a JOL game and I'd like
to get it right, so does anyone know for sure how it works?
Thanks,
~Rehlow
Rewind Time
Reaction
2 blood
[pre] Reduce a bleed against you by 1.
[tem] Cancel an action card as it is played (the acting minion is not
tapped).
[TEM] Usable by a ready, untapped vampire even though there is no
action. Cancel a non-out-of-turn master card as it is played during
any other Methuselah's master phase (no cost is paid). The Methuselah
who played that card gains another master phase action.
Wake with Evening's Freshness
Reaction
Do not replace until your next untap phase.
Only usable by a tapped vampire. This reacting vampire can play
reaction cards and attempt to block as though untapped until the
current action is concluded.
Frederick Scott
"Rehlow" <news...@rehlow.com> wrote in message news:889816d9-f3aa-4e41...@h10g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
>I found LSJ confirming that you can play a Wake With Evenings
> Freshness and then play Rewind Time at inf temporis to cancel an
> action card, but I didn't see any replied by LSJ directly that you can
> do the same to cancel a master card when playing at superior. I also
> know LSJ sometimes doesn't clarify with a correct unless someone asks
> for it. This will have a pretty big effect on a JOL game and I'd like
> to get it right, so does anyone know for sure how it works?
You cannot play a reaction card during a master phase. You just can't -
there's no rule in the rulebook to allow it.
Turns out there's a reason I knew this one pretty good:
http://groups.google.fr/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/a41626cfaa609209
Of course, I didn't think about it at the time, but it may be possible that
you could Wake and play Rewind Time at superior to cancel an OOT master card
played during someone else's minion phase - assuming that an action exists
to which to react. So, for instance, I don't think you could play the Wake/
RW to cancel an opponent's Direct Intervention of another opponent's action
card. But I believe you could play Wake/RW to cancel an opponent's Direct
Intervention of another opponent's action modifier card. Go figure...
Fred
Rehlow
> "Rehlow" <newsgr...@rehlow.com> wrote in messagenews:889816d9-f3aa-4e41...@h10g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
> >I found LSJ confirming that you can play a Wake With Evenings
> > Freshness and then play Rewind Time at inf temporis to cancel an
> > action card, but I didn't see any replied by LSJ directly that you can
> > do the same to cancel a master card when playing at superior. I also
> > know LSJ sometimes doesn't clarify with a correct unless someone asks
> > for it. This will have a pretty big effect on a JOL game and I'd like
> > to get it right, so does anyone know for sure how it works?
>
> You cannot play a reaction card during a master phase. You just can't -
> there's no rule in the rulebook to allow it.
>
>
> Of course, I didn't think about it at the time, but it may be possible that
> you could Wake and play Rewind Time at superior to cancel an OOT master card
> played during someone else's minion phase - assuming that an action exists
> to which to react. So, for instance, I don't think you could play the Wake/
> RW to cancel an opponent's Direct Intervention of another opponent's action
> card. But I believe you could play Wake/RW to cancel an opponent's Direct
> Intervention of another opponent's action modifier card. Go figure...
>
> Fred
Thanks Fred. You don't have to worry about all that DI messy-ness due
to Rewind Time's "non-out-of-turn master card." Maybe if a Rewind Time
2 comes along you'll have to worry about it.
Later,
~Rehlow
Frederick Scott
"Rehlow" <news...@rehlow.com> wrote in message news:55b0edc4-d602-4292...@r31g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 30, 10:37 pm, "Frederick Scott" <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> wrote:
> > Of course, I didn't think about it at the time, but it may be possible that
> > you could Wake and play Rewind Time at superior to cancel an OOT master card
> > played during someone else's minion phase - assuming that an action exists
> > to which to react. So, for instance, I don't think you could play the Wake/
> > RW to cancel an opponent's Direct Intervention of another opponent's action
> > card. But I believe you could play Wake/RW to cancel an opponent's Direct
> > Intervention of another opponent's action modifier card. Go figure...
>
> to Rewind Time's "non-out-of-turn master card." Maybe if a Rewind Time
> 2 comes along you'll have to worry about it.
Oh, yea. So it is.
Card text - what a concept!
Fred
Dai
supposed to be played during actions. Perhaps it is inappropriate for
Rewind Time to be able to respond to a Master card *as a reaction*.
Imagine an action modifier that modifies a Master card, it'd be really
weird.
Rehlow
Reaction cards are only supposed to be played during actions - unless
specific game text changes that. Rewind Time allows for that. Wake
does not, which is why the combo doesn't work for the superior
temporis effect. In the end it wasn't that hard to figure out, but I
needed confirmation.
Later,
~Rehlow
henrik
On the other hand, wakes (wwef, otqv etc) don't have any text allowing
them to be played after resolution either but in that case it's not
judged as needed for some reason.
I'm not sure I understand why they're playable "as needed" (without
any text allowing it) in one instance and not in another, but I might
have misunderstood something.
cthulukitty
> On the other hand, wakes (wwef, otqv etc) don't have any text allowing
> them to be played after resolution either but in that case it's not
> judged as needed for some reason.
> I'm not sure I understand why they're playable "as needed" (without
> any text allowing it) in one instance and not in another, but I might
> have misunderstood something.
Many action modifiers and reactions may be played after the resolution
of an action. Indeed some, such as Freak Drive or Cat's Guidance (at
ani) can only be played during that window. By default, action
modifiers and reactions are playable at any point during an action,
though most are limited in timing by their effects. Why should any
card have text allowing it to be played during the normal timing
window for cards of its type?
Jesse
henrik
cthulukitty
> > Many action modifiers and reactions may be played after the resolution
> > of an action. Indeed some, such as Freak Drive or Cat's Guidance (at
> > ani) can only be played during that window. By default, action
> > modifiers and reactions are playable at any point during an action,
> > though most are limited in timing by their effects. Why should any
> > card have text allowing it to be played during the normal timing
> > window for cards of its type?
>
> > Jesse
>
I wasn't aware of that ruling, and I see what you mean now. I agree
that there is now an inconsistency. In order to restore consistency,
either wakes need additional card text, or LSJ needs to reverse his
ruling. I'd much prefer to see the latter.
Jesse
Obtenebration
Text space may have prevented further clarification? Look at Power of
All. Card text says usable even if there is no action.
Power of All
Type: Reaction
Requires: anarch
Cost: 2 blood
Requires a ready anarch.
Tap this anarch and one other untapped ready anarch you control to
cancel a library card as it is played. Usable even if there is no
action. Not usable during your own turn.
Meej
wrote:
I wonder, given the fact that the card type already existed, why that
wasn't a Reflex? Which is, as far as I can tell, what that is.
- D.J.
Juggernaut1981
Potentially to add extra weight to the "not in your own turn" clause.
LSJ
>> Power of All
>> Type: Reaction
>> Requires: anarch
>> Cost: 2 blood
>> Requires a ready anarch.
>> Tap this anarch and one other untapped ready anarch you control to
>> cancel a library card as it is played. Usable even if there is no
>> action. Not usable during your own turn.
>
> I wonder, given the fact that the card type already existed, why that
> wasn't a Reflex? Which is, as far as I can tell, what that is.
Reflexes only cancel cards played on the minion. [1.6.3]
Meej
Aha. Thanks. (Still, that seems like it limited Reflexes more than
necessary, when they could have been used to clear up situations like
"how can you play a reaction when there's no action?"... but at least
it's - as usual - consistent.)
- D.J.