Yet another Spying Mission/Major Boon question for LSJ
John Flournoy
volunteered to post to get verification:
Three Methuselahs involved. For sake of argument, we'll call them
"Tom" "Rick" and "Boris".
Boris has a Major Boon in play on Rick. Tom bleeds Boris.
How does the timing of Boris deciding if to call in the Boon owed
interact with Tom's decision to modify his bleed by playing a new
superior Spying Mission?
Specifically, can Tom wait to see if Boris calls in the Boon before
needing to decide if he Spying Missions the bleed to 0, or can Boris
wait to see if Tom makes it a Spying Mission before he has to declare
if he is burning the Boon or not? Whose decision has to be made first?
It's clear from the card text on Major Boon that after playing the
card to take someone else's loss, the bleed can be modified (including
by SM)- but it is not clear as to the timing of when you must declare
that you are burning an existing Boon. It appears that both Spying
Mission and burning a Major Boon can take place after a bleed has been
determined to be causing pool loss. Which must be resolved first?
-John Flournoy
LSJ
> This situation popped up in our play group last night, and I
> volunteered to post to get verification:
>
> Three Methuselahs involved. For sake of argument, we'll call them
> "Tom" "Rick" and "Boris".
>
> Boris has a Major Boon in play on Rick. Tom bleeds Boris.
>
> How does the timing of Boris deciding if to call in the Boon owed
> interact with Tom's decision to modify his bleed by playing a new
> superior Spying Mission?
>
> Specifically, can Tom wait to see if Boris calls in the Boon before
> needing to decide if he Spying Missions the bleed to 0, or can Boris
> wait to see if Tom makes it a Spying Mission before he has to declare
> if he is burning the Boon or not? Whose decision has to be made first?
Spying Mission has no options - it is burned if the bleed is successful.
Before or after the Major Boon is burned, it doesn't matter. It still
gets burned.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Joshua Duffin
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
news:3EC263F5...@white-wolf.com...
> John Flournoy wrote:
> > This situation popped up in our play group last night, and I
> > volunteered to post to get verification:
> >
> > Three Methuselahs involved. For sake of argument, we'll call them
> > "Tom" "Rick" and "Boris".
> >
> > Boris has a Major Boon in play on Rick. Tom bleeds Boris.
> >
> > How does the timing of Boris deciding if to call in the Boon owed
> > interact with Tom's decision to modify his bleed by playing a new
> > superior Spying Mission?
> >
> > Specifically, can Tom wait to see if Boris calls in the Boon before
> > needing to decide if he Spying Missions the bleed to 0, or can Boris
> > wait to see if Tom makes it a Spying Mission before he has to declare
> > if he is burning the Boon or not? Whose decision has to be made first?
>
> Spying Mission has no options - it is burned if the bleed is successful.
> Before or after the Major Boon is burned, it doesn't matter. It still
> gets burned.
I believe he was wondering about playing a new superior Spying
Mission.
I would imagine that by [1.6.1.6], the acting Meth has the
opportunity to play Spying Mission before the victim can
decide whether to cash in the Boon. If the acting Meth
declines, and the victim burns the Boon, I'm not sure if
the acting Meth gets another chance to play Spying Mission?
I would guess not, since although acting Meth certainly
gets priority again when someone else plays an effect,
the effect of "cashing in" the Boon has already taken
place and the bleed amount can't be further modified at
that point.
I could be wrong, though...
Josh
spying mission, such a difficult card...
LSJ
>>>Boris has a Major Boon in play on Rick. Tom bleeds Boris.
>>>
>>>How does the timing of Boris deciding if to call in the Boon owed
>>>interact with Tom's decision to modify his bleed by playing a new
>>>superior Spying Mission?
>>>
>>>Specifically, can Tom wait to see if Boris calls in the Boon before
>>>needing to decide if he Spying Missions the bleed to 0, or can Boris
>>>wait to see if Tom makes it a Spying Mission before he has to declare
>>>if he is burning the Boon or not? Whose decision has to be made first?
>>
>>Spying Mission has no options - it is burned if the bleed is successful.
>>Before or after the Major Boon is burned, it doesn't matter. It still
>>gets burned.
>
> I believe he was wondering about playing a new superior Spying
> Mission.
Hmm. Since that's what he wrote, you're probably right. :-)
Sorry for misreading...
> I would imagine that by [1.6.1.6], the acting Meth has the
> opportunity to play Spying Mission before the victim can
> decide whether to cash in the Boon. If the acting Meth
> declines, and the victim burns the Boon, I'm not sure if
> the acting Meth gets another chance to play Spying Mission?
She would.
> I would guess not, since although acting Meth certainly
> gets priority again when someone else plays an effect,
> the effect of "cashing in" the Boon has already taken
> place and the bleed amount can't be further modified at
> that point.
Boon allows modifications to be played after it is burned
(parallel to how modifiers can be played after it is
played).
Joshua Duffin
> Joshua Duffin wrote:
>
> > If the acting Meth
> > declines, and the victim burns the Boon, I'm not sure if
> > the acting Meth gets another chance to play Spying Mission?
>
> She would.
>
> > I would guess not, since although acting Meth certainly
> > gets priority again when someone else plays an effect,
> > the effect of "cashing in" the Boon has already taken
> > place and the bleed amount can't be further modified at
> > that point.
>
> Boon allows modifications to be played after it is burned
> (parallel to how modifiers can be played after it is
> played).
Hmm. That's definitely parallel, but it doesn't seem to
say that in Major Boon's card text. Is this a longstanding
ruling/erratum, or new? Consistency on both ends of the
Boon seems reasonable, but since it's worded differently on
the card, it would also make some sense for it to be handled
differently in operation.
Josh
a wise inconsistency is the hobgoblin of large minds? err...
LSJ
> Hmm. That's definitely parallel, but it doesn't seem to
> say that in Major Boon's card text. Is this a longstanding
> ruling/erratum, or new? Consistency on both ends of the
> Boon seems reasonable, but since it's worded differently on
> the card, it would also make some sense for it to be handled
> differently in operation.
It's never been brought up before as far as I can tell, yeah.
Derek Ray
LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> mumbled something about:
>Joshua Duffin wrote:
>> Hmm. That's definitely parallel, but it doesn't seem to
>> say that in Major Boon's card text. Is this a longstanding
>> ruling/erratum, or new? Consistency on both ends of the
>> Boon seems reasonable, but since it's worded differently on
>> the card, it would also make some sense for it to be handled
>> differently in operation.
>
>It's never been brought up before as far as I can tell, yeah.
Thus allowing one to have a Spying Mission against oneself? =)
--
"There's no gray. There's just white that's got grubby." -- T.P.
Joshua Duffin
"Derek Ray" <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6f95cv8s9qg3ihpd5...@4ax.com...
> Thus allowing one to have a Spying Mission against oneself? =)
Heh, funny! But no, the Spying Mission (as I understand it) is
always against the Methuselah who's actually being bled - not
the one who would be burning pool for the bleed, when a Major
Boon is played or called in.
Josh
it would let you avoid losing any pool, though, if someone
called in a boon on you when you were bleeding them... and
even give you a bonus later! is there anything spying mission
can't do?
salem
> Joshua Duffin wrote:
[snip]
> > I would guess not, since although acting Meth certainly
> > gets priority again when someone else plays an effect,
> > the effect of "cashing in" the Boon has already taken
> > place and the bleed amount can't be further modified at
> > that point.
>
> Boon allows modifications to be played after it is burned
> (parallel to how modifiers can be played after it is
> played).
Master: out-of-turn. Play this card when another Methuselah is
successfully bled. Not usable if you control the acting minion.
Modifiers to the bleed amount may be played after you play this card.
You burn pool for the bleed instead of the target Methuselah (must be
at least 1 pool) and give this card to the target Methuselah. You may
burn this card to have that Methuselah burn pool instead of you when
you are successfully bled.
'when you are successfully bled' to me implies that it's beyond being
modified. except maybe by spying mission because it is only played or
cashed in on a successful bleed. this is messy.
salem.