[LSJ] Major Boon/Spying Mission
wumpus
I grepped about a bit, but wasn't sure that the results were up to
date and/or applicable to this exact scenario.
But first, my understanding is that you can stack Spying Missions onto
the same vampire. That is, a vampire with a Spying Mission on it
(against Meth A) who bleeds Meth A successfully can play another
Spying Mission to make the bleed unsuccessful and, potentially, get +4
bleed on its next successful bleed (against Meth A).
Situation: My predator has a Spying Mission on me. I have a Major
Boon on him. He bleeds successfully (for 1) with the appropriate
vampire, cashing the Mission to make it 3. I burn the Boon to make
him burn the 3 instead. Now he plays a new Spying Mission, to stop
himself from burning any pool and make the bleed unsuccessful (and,
presumably, mark himself as the 'target' of the new Mission). I'm
pretty sure that this would also retroactively cause the first Spying
Mission to not be burned (as the bleed is no longer successful), as
above.
I don't think he can play the new Spying Mission (seems like this is
related to the Spying Mission/Archon Investigation timing tussle), as
then there's no successful bleed for me to burn the Major Boon against
anymore, but I'm really not sure about that. If I say, "Any more
modifiers?" and he says no, and then I burn the Boon, is burning the
Boon something that returns the impulse to him so that he can now play
the new Spying Mission?
If he can play the new Spying Mission, the result is that the vampire
bleeds unsuccessfully for 0 and has two Spying Missions stacked on
it? And my Major Boon burns with no effect?
Thanks,
Alex
-----
Spying Mission (superior OBF): Only usable when a bleed would be
successful. The bleed burns no pool; it is unsuccessful. Instead, put
this card on the acting vampire. The next time this vampire
successfully bleeds the same Methuselah, burn this card for +2 bleed.
Major Boon: Put this card in play when another Methuselah is
successfully bled. Not usable if you control the acting minion.
Modifiers to the bleed amount may be played after you play this card.
You burn pool for the bleed instead of the target Methuselah (must be
at least 1 pool or this card is burned). When you are successfully
bled, you may burn this card to have that Methuselah burn pool instead
of you.
LSJ
> Howdy,
>
> I grepped about a bit, but wasn't sure that the results were up to
> date and/or applicable to this exact scenario.
>
> But first, my understanding is that you can stack Spying Missions onto
> the same vampire. That is, a vampire with a Spying Mission on it
> (against Meth A) who bleeds Meth A successfully can play another
> Spying Mission to make the bleed unsuccessful and, potentially, get +4
> bleed on its next successful bleed (against Meth A).
Yes.
> Situation: My predator has a Spying Mission on me. I have a Major
> Boon on him. He bleeds successfully (for 1) with the appropriate
> vampire, cashing the Mission to make it 3. I burn the Boon to make
> him burn the 3 instead. Now he plays a new Spying Mission, to stop
> himself from burning any pool and make the bleed unsuccessful (and,
> presumably, mark himself as the 'target' of the new Mission). I'm
> pretty sure that this would also retroactively cause the first Spying
> Mission to not be burned (as the bleed is no longer successful), as
> above.
Can't respond to a burning Major Boon by playing a Spying Mission, due to timing
texts on the respective cards.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/c8310d5954cc5b31
Ira Fay
> Howdy,
>
> I grepped about a bit, but wasn't sure that the results were up to
> date and/or applicable to this exact scenario.
>
> But first, my understanding is that you can stack Spying Missions onto
> the same vampire. That is, a vampire with a Spying Mission on it
> (against Meth A) who bleeds Meth A successfully can play another
> Spying Mission to make the bleed unsuccessful and, potentially, get +4
> bleed on its next successful bleed (against Meth A).
>
> Situation: My predator has a Spying Mission on me. I have a Major
> Boon on him. He bleeds successfully (for 1) with the appropriate
> vampire, cashing the Mission to make it 3.
You probably already realized this, but just for clarity: Spying
Mission automatically gets burned the next time that vamp bleeds the
correct Meth successfully. Spying Mission must be burned in that
situation.
Ira
Akantes
> Mission automatically gets burned the next time that vamp bleeds the
> correct Meth successfully. Spying Mission must be burned in that
> situation.
>
> Ira
Well, not entirely correct. You can stack Spying Missions on a
vampire.
Powerlord
> wumpus wrote:
> > Howdy,
>
> > I grepped about a bit, but wasn't sure that the results were up to
> > date and/or applicable to this exact scenario.
>
> > But first, my understanding is that you can stack Spying Missions onto
> > the same vampire. That is, a vampire with a Spying Mission on it
> > (against Meth A) who bleeds Meth A successfully can play another
> > Spying Mission to make the bleed unsuccessful and, potentially, get +4
> > bleed on its next successful bleed (against Meth A).
>
> Yes.
>
Hold on a second... you can stack them? Aren't you bond to burn the
spying mission the next time you successfully bleed the same meth?
I look to the rulings and clarifications and one of them states:
"After successfully being played, it must be burned on the next
unblocked bleed against the same Methuselah, provided the bleed is not
reduced to zero by other modifiers. [TOM 19950620]"
Looking up at the scenario posted, i get the ideia i can stack them
instead of beeing forced to burn them! Am I been playing it wrong
since 1996?
Thanks
Ricardo Marta
Prince of Lisboa
Portugal
Akantes
Juggernaut1981
(implying that it has NOT YET been successful) and therefore lands
before any "in play" Spying Missions would trigger (since they trigger
on Successful Bleeds, not on "will be successful bleeds". Note:
reducing a bleed to 0 also stops Spying Mission from trigerring
because the "bleed" is not successful but the ACTION is... unless I am
way off track on this one LSJ...)
Since Spying Mission @ OBF must be played (by implication) before a
bleed is successful, it cannot come AFTER a Major Boon (when you are
successfully bled...)
So if you have a Major Boon in your hand, just ask them if they are
going to Spying Mission from the hand "like that other time"... and
if they don't, they've given up the window. The Spying Mission in
play burns and you may now burn your Major Boon to force someone else
to burn the pool instead.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Spying Mission
Type: Action Modifier
Requires: Obfuscate
[obf] +1 stealth.
[OBF] Only usable when a bleed would be successful. The bleed burns no
pool; it is unsuccessful. Instead, put this card on the acting
vampire. The next time this vampire successfully bleeds the same
Methuselah, burn this card for +2 bleed.
Major Boon
Type: Master
Master: out-of-turn. Boon.
Powerlord
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_t...- Ocultar texto citado -
>
It doesn't makes sense... but thanks, guess i have to teach all
players arround here...
LSJ
Better to wait until it makes sense before trying to teach it.
What doesn't make sense (of, say, the explanations given in this thread)?
Dasein
> On 16 Jul, 01:32, Akantes <akan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> It doesn't makes sense... but thanks, guess i have to teach all
> players arround here...
It does make sense.
You can play Spying Mission from your hand when a bled WOULD be
successful (but has not yet become successful). So just before it
resolves and becomes a successful bleed, you say "wait no. I'm going
to stop this from being a successful bleed. Instead, I'm going to put
this here Spying Mission from my hand onto this vampire." Nobody is
bled, edge doesn't move, acting vampire gets a spying mission placed
on them.
Spying Missions can burn from play for +2 bleed if you HAVE just
successfully bled the relevant methuselah.
Once you understand the timing, its easy.
Spying played from hand: play BEFORE a bleed resolves. Stops the bleed
from resolving. No reason why can't do this on a vampire with a spying
mission already on them (or 2, or 20 spying missions on them).
Spying burned from play: burns WHEN you have successfully bled someone
(after everyone has passed priority and the bleed is resolving). Adds
2 to the bleed amount.
Pretty easy.
Powerlord
> Powerlord wrote:
> > On 16 Jul, 01:32, Akantes <akan...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > It doesn't makes sense... but thanks, guess i have to teach all
> > players arround here...
>
> Better to wait until it makes sense before trying to teach it.
>
> What doesn't make sense (of, say, the explanations given in this thread)?
It's a question of interpretation/translation from English to
Portuguese. For all these years, i believe Portuguese players have
been playing it wrong because we gave a diferent interpretation.
For me (us), the card behaves in the following way:
- Meth A bleeds SUCCESSFULLY Meth B with vampire X
- Meth A plays Spying Mission @OBF to place it on the action vampire
- Next turn, Meth A bleeds SUCCESSFULLY (again) Meth B with vampire X
- Meth A is bond to "burn" the SP because the bleed is successful
Card Text:
Spying Mission
[OBF] Only usable when a bleed would be successful. The bleed burns no
pool; it is unsuccessful. Instead, put this card on the acting
vampire. The next time this vampire successfully bleeds the same
Methuselah, burn this card for +2 bleed.
When do you check if the bleed would be successfull? By card text, i
understand that, if you check if the bleed would be successful in
order to place the card on the vampire, you also check to see if there
are any SP on the acting vampire and you must burn it if the bleed is
successful. You can only turn the bleed unsuccessful in order to place
the SP if the bleed is successful and if it is successful the SP
bruns.
Is my explanation too confusing?
Thanks for the feedback anyway LSJ, but if you can explain me why a
successful bleed that forces you to burn the SP can be turned into a
unsuccessful one in order to place another SP, i would apreciate.
LSJ
> Thanks for the feedback anyway LSJ, but if you can explain me why a
> successful bleed that forces you to burn the SP can be turned into a
> unsuccessful one in order to place another SP, i would apreciate.
It isn't ever successful. Before it is successful, the play of the Spying
Mission makes it unsuccessful.
Spying Mission superior (play) timing: when a bleed would be successful, before
it is successful. (i.e., after all blocks declined, reaching resolution
unblocked, for 1 or more).
Spying Mission (burn from play) timing: when a bleed is successful (once it is
successful). This is after the timing given for playing Spying Mission from hand.
Playing Spying Mission from hand (when the bleed would be successful but before
it is successful) makes the bleed amount 0
Which makes the bleed unsuccessful.
Which means that the in-play Spying Mission won't burn.
Powerlord
Ok, got it.
Thanks