last night LSJ saved my life...
Reyda
sorry for the poor pun on this thread.
Here's another rule puzzle.
I make a very big bleed which will oust my prey if i succed. The only
vampire of my prey, w sueprior Auspex is tapped and has only one blood left.
As i guessed, he tries to block with a Forced Awakening. Then i make my
bleed un blockable with a crucifying Daring the dawn (no allies in sight).
Now... Can he play the "Telepathic Misdirection" he just drew ?
The point is : if block attempt under Forced awakenig fails, when does the
"burn the blood if block fails occur" ?
1 - he says since he can't block, he plays the Thelepatic Misdirection,
burning the last blood on him. Then he is unable to burn the blood for the
Forced (nevermind). Bleed is bounced.
2 - since he couldn't block, the attempt failed - he is forced to burn his
last blood, thus making him unable to play Thelepatic Misdirection. He takes
the bleed.
Which one is correct ?
and what if i didn't played the Daring the Dawn -could he choose to play
forced awakening, don't even attempt to block and bounce with the Thelepatic
using the only blood left on his vampire ? or is the blood burned before he
can play a reaction card ?
reyda
Christoph Scherer
...you don´t have to burn a blood for not blocking because of Forced
Awakening until the action resolves in anything else than combat with that
minion. That means: you awake, see that the action is made unblockable, and
play the Telepathic Misdirection, paying 1 blood for it. Then, you have to
try to burn a blood for not blocking (which is a side effect, not a cost),
which you cannot, so you just don´t do it. IMO.
A much weirder possibility I can think of would be Anneke (with DOM)
reacting to a bleed with FA, then playing Deflection to bounce the bleed,
seeing it not being blocked by her prey, and then successfully blocking it
on her own, using her special ability. Does she have to burn the blood from
FA? Moreover, can she even attempt to block after the Deflection at superior
without waking again?
best regards
cs
LSJ
> > [bleeding prey]
> > he tries to block with a Forced Awakening. Then i make my
> > bleed un blockable with a crucifying Daring the dawn
Yes.
> > The point is : if block attempt under Forced awakenig fails, when
> > does the "burn the blood if block fails occur" ?
> >
> > 1 - he says since he can't block, he plays the Thelepatic
> > Misdirection, burning the last blood on him. Then he is unable to
> > burn the blood for the Forced (nevermind). Bleed is bounced.
> > 2 - [snip]
> >
> > and what if i didn't played the Daring the Dawn -could he choose
> > to play forced awakening, don't even attempt to block and bounce
> > with the Thelepatic using the only blood left on his vampire ? or
> > is the blood burned before he can play a reaction card ?
> >
> Just to my unknowing little mind...
> ...you don´t have to burn a blood for not blocking because of Forced
> Awakening until the action resolves in anything else than combat with
> that minion. That means: you awake, see that the action is made
It could end in a successful block and no combat, as well, BTW.
> unblockable, and play the Telepathic Misdirection, paying 1 blood for
> it. Then, you have to try to burn a blood for not blocking (which is
> a side effect, not a cost), which you cannot, so you just don´t do
> it. IMO.
Correct, from the online rulings:
Forced Awakening:
The vampire burns a blood (if he fails to block) when the action begins
to resolve (successfully or not). [LSJ 21-APR-1999]
> A much weirder possibility I can think of would be Anneke (with DOM)
> reacting to a bleed with FA, then playing Deflection to bounce the
> bleed, seeing it not being blocked by her prey, and then successfully
> blocking it on her own, using her special ability. Does she have to
> burn the blood from FA?
Only if she fails to block.
> Moreover, can she even attempt to block after the Deflection at
> superior without waking again?
Yes. Wakes last for the duration of the action, like most action
modifiers and reaction cards do.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Chris Shorb
>
[snip]
>
> Wakes last for the duration of the action, like most action
> modifiers and reaction cards do.
A vamp Wakes and attempts to block, successfully. The acting vamp plays
Form of Mist at SUP. Can the blocking vampire still attempt to block
again (assuming they have the intercept) without playing another Wake?
If not why not (please cite if possible)?
Thanks, I will check after i come back from Vacation...
I list the appropriate card texts and errata here:
Form of Mist [Jyhad, V:TES]
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Protean
Strike: dodge (S) Strike: combat ends. {When played by an acting
vampire, this card counts as an action modifier and the action
continues} at +1 stealth as if unblocked (this action can still be
blocked).
Errata/Clarifications/Rulings
- If the superior form is used to continue an action, then all action
modifiers, including stealth and Dawn Operation, are still in effect.
[RTR 19941109]
- The superior version can be used by a blocking vampire, but this will
not cause the action to be continued. [RTR 19941109]
- The superior counts as an action modifier when played by an acting
vampire, so cannot be played more than once per action at superior. [RTR
19980623]
- The superior form cannot be used by the acting vampire unless he needs
the stealth. [RTR 19970630]
- The superior form cannot continue an action if played during combat
resulting from a successful action. This is because the results of an
action are considered to take effect after that action is successful
[and because the acting minion doesn't need the stealth -lsj]. [RTR
19970630]
- Any effect that starts a new combat after the combat that was ended by
superior Form of Mist (or continues the combat that was ended) will
nullify the "continue action" effect. This includes Psyche (superior),
Fast Reaction, Hidden Lurker, and Telepathic Tracking. [LSJ 19980109]
- Performing diablerie (via Amaranth) at the end of the combat that is
ended by superior Form of Mist will nullify the 'continue action"
effect. [LSJ 19980819]
Wake with Evening's Freshness [Jyhad, V:TES, SW]
Cardtype: Reaction
Do not replace until your next untap phase. Only usable by a tapped
vampire. This reacting vampire can use reaction cards and attempt to
block as though untapped until the current action is concluded.
Errata/Clarifications/Rulings
- May be played by your tapped vampire if you are not the acting
Minion's controller. The vampire need not attempt to block nor play
further reaction cards; that is merely an option. [TOM 19951129]
--
chris
<www.vtesinla.org> (A V:TES site in development)
ultimate disc - V:TES - hockey
v:ekn prince of torrance, ca
The Lasombra
Chris Shorb <chr...@vtesinla.org> wrote:
> LSJ wrote:
> >
> [snip]
>
> >
> > Wakes last for the duration of the action, like most action
> > modifiers and reaction cards do.
>
> A vamp Wakes and attempts to block, successfully. The acting vamp
> plays Form of Mist at SUP. Can the blocking vampire still attempt
> to block again (assuming they have the intercept) without playing
> another Wake?
Yes.
It is still the same action. By Wakes card text, you may play
reaction cards and attempt to block as though you were untapped
until the action is concluded. The action is not concluded until the
reacting players state that they are not blocking.
If you play a Wake (or Forced Awakening) and block, the acting
vampire plays Form of Mist (sup), you could gain (or already have)
more intercept, enter combat again, the acting vampire could play
Shadow Body (sup), you could then block again, and enter combat again.
> Thanks, I will check after i come back from Vacation...
Have a great vacation.
I'll see you February 17-18 for Praxis Seizure LA.
Carpe Noctem.
Lasombra
http://lasombra.tripod.com
http://legbiter.tripod.com
http://vekn_clans.tripod.com
> Chris listed the appropriate card texts here:
>
> Form of Mist [Jyhad, V:TES]
> Cardtype: Combat
> Discipline: Protean
> Strike: dodge (S) Strike: combat ends. {When played by an acting
> vampire, this card counts as an action modifier and the action
> continues} at +1 stealth as if unblocked (this action can still be
> blocked).
>
> Wake with Evening's Freshness [Jyhad, V:TES, SW]
> Cardtype: Reaction
> Do not replace until your next untap phase. Only usable by a tapped
> vampire. This reacting vampire can use reaction cards and attempt to
> block as though untapped until the current action is concluded.
> --
> chris
> <www.vtesinla.org> (A V:TES site in development)
> ultimate disc - V:TES - hockey
> v:ekn prince of torrance, ca
LSJ
> Chris Shorb <chr...@vtesinla.org> wrote:
> > LSJ wrote:
> > > Wakes last for the duration of the action, like most action
> > > modifiers and reaction cards do.
> >
> > A vamp Wakes and attempts to block, successfully. The acting vamp
> > plays Form of Mist at SUP. Can the blocking vampire still attempt
> > to block again (assuming they have the intercept) without playing
> > another Wake?
>
> Yes.
> It is still the same action. By Wakes card text, you may play
> reaction cards and attempt to block as though you were untapped
> until the action is concluded. The action is not concluded until the
> reacting players state that they are not blocking.
>
> If you play a Wake (or Forced Awakening) and block, the acting
> vampire plays Form of Mist (sup), you could gain (or already have)
> more intercept, enter combat again, the acting vampire could play
> Shadow Body (sup), you could then block again, and enter combat again.
Correct.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/