Deck Building: Dementation Bleed
RoddPrime
Bleed deck. The crypt could have gone groups 2 and 3, but I decided to
go with 3 and 4 with no obvious advantage to either grouping, although
Jackie is nice to have. Also, the DI's could easily be Dark Influences
as I currently am short on DI's. Thoughts appreciated, and sorry in
advance as I will be posting several deck designs in the near future
and with all the awesome people on this Usenet Group I am sure they
will be fine tuned monsters.
Dementation Bleed
Card Name Quantity
Vampires
Midget 2
Jackie 2
Persia, The Beautiful Statue 2
Apache Jones 2
Uncle George 2
Morel 2
Actions
Kindred Spirits 21
Restructure 1
Action Modifiers
Eyes of Chaos 15
Confusion 15
Mind Tricks 10
Deny 10
Master
Barrens, The 1
Blood Doll 4
Direct Intervention 2
Elder Library 2
Pentex Subersion 2
Perfectionist 2
Golconda 2
Wash 2
Event
Narrow Minds 1
Total 90
RoddPrime
Small correction.... that should be 1 Golconda and 22 Kindred Spirits
Peter D Bakija
> Bleed deck. The crypt could have gone groups 2 and 3, but I decided to
> go with 3 and 4 with no obvious advantage to either grouping, although
> Jackie is nice to have.
Well, if you don't duplicate anyone, G3/4 has a significant advantage--
this deck is much better off with no duplication for the virtue of
efficiency.
> Card Name Quantity
> Vampires
> Midget 2
> Jackie 2
> Persia, The Beautiful Statue 2
> Apache Jones 2
> Uncle George 2
> Morel 2
As noted, you probably don't want to have duplicates--having no
duplicates in your opening crypt means you move much faster, and
having no chance of a duplicate when you go fish makes everything more
efficient. Using G3/4, you can get:
Uncle George 5 DEM
Apache Jones 5 DEM
Perisa 5 DEM
Jeremy Talbot 4 dem
Adilaide 4 dem
Fabrizia 4 dem
Beauregard 4 dem
Midget 3 DEM
Jackie 3 DEM
Marta 3 dem
Cassandra 2 dem
Eddie Gaines 1 dem
For a small, fast crypt with no duplicates and 5 starting DEM.
> Actions
> Kindred Spirits 21
> Restructure 1
>
> Action Modifiers
> Eyes of Chaos 15
> Confusion 15
> Mind Tricks 10
> Deny 10
All reasonable.
> Master
> Barrens, The 1
> Blood Doll 4
> Direct Intervention 2
> Elder Library 2
> Pentex Subersion 2
> Perfectionist 2
> Golconda 2
> Wash 2
You don't really need the Blood Dolls. If you replace them with
Dementation cards, you go faster. 2x Elder Library isn't real
necessary--Dreams of the Sphinx is probably better. Perfectionist
isn't real useful if the Blood Dolls go. Golconda is kind of a shot in
the dark that might backfire. I'd probably go with:
5x Dementation
2x Direct Intervention
2x Dreams of the Sphinx
3x Sudden
3x Agent of Power
2x Pentex Subversion
> Event
> Narrow Minds 1
>
> Total 90
Also good.
-Peter
RoddPrime
I may have a hard time getting the additional DI's I need.... are Dark
Influences fine in this deck or is the extra pool cost not worth it?
RoddPrime
I have updated the deck list........
Animalism
Card Name Quantity
Vampires
Jeremy Talbot 1
Adilaide 1
Fabrizia 1
Beauregard 1
Cassandra 1
Marta 1
Midget 1
Jackie 1
Persia, The Beautiful Statue 1
Apache Jones 1
Uncle George 1
Eddie Gaines 1
Actions
Kindred Spirits 22
Restructure 1
Action Modifiers
Eyes of Chaos 15
Confusion 15
Mind Tricks 10
Deny 10
Master
Barrens, The 1
Dementation 5
Direct Intervention 2
Dreams of the Sphinx 2
Pentex Subersion 2
Agent of Power 2
Sudden Reversal 2
Event
Narrow Minds 1
Dr.Mafrune
"spicy" adding some clan cards, a little defense, tablets, or whatever
comes in your mind.
Take a look at the list I made a few days ago. Maybe it can give you
new ideas.
Deck Name : Sabbat Dementia & Tablets
Author : Dr.Mafrune
Description :
Crypt (12 vampires) Capacity min: 1 max: 5 average: 2.91667
------------------------------------------------------------
2x Jackie 3 DEM !Malkavian:4
2x Midget 3 DEM obf pre !Malkavian:3
2x Anarch Convert 1 Caitiff:0
1x Apache Jones 5 DEM aus for obf !Malkavian:4
1x Persia, The Beauti 5 DEM aus obf Malkavian:3
1x Uncle George 5 DEM aus dom obf !Malkavian:3
1x Marta 3 aus dem !Malkavian:4
1x Cassandra Langely, 2 dem Malkavian:4
1x Eddie Gaines 1 dem pot Caitiff:3
Library (66 cards)
------------------------------------------------------------
Action [18]
2x Dive into Madness
12x Kindred Spirits
2x Restructure
2x Sibyl's Tongue
Action Modifier [19]
7x Confusion
4x Eyes of Chaos
5x Mind Tricks
3x Walk through Arcadia
Action Modifier / Reaction [4]
4x Touch of Clarity
Action Modifier/Combat [3]
3x Deny
Equipment [1]
1x Kaymakli Fragment
Event [2]
1x Narrow Minds
1x The Bitter and Sweet Story
Master [11]
1x Agent of Power
1x Anarch Troublemaker
6x Ashur Tablets
1x Bleeding the Vine
1x Dark Influences
1x Pentex(TM) Subversion
Reaction [8]
2x Delaying Tactics
2x On the Qui Vive
4x Wrong and Crosswise
Crafted with : Anarch Revolt Deck Builder. (Sun Sep 20 23:48:35 2009)
Peter D Bakija
> Oh, my dear. It´s a very boring deck. Make it at least a little
> "spicy" adding some clan cards, a little defense, tablets, or whatever
> comes in your mind.
The whole point of this deck is that it is incredibly streamlined and
efficient. And is in no way entertaining. It does what it does and
does it very well. Sometimes it loses. A lot of times it wins.
Sometimes people just want to make decks that are really good at
winning tournaments. I suspect that most of the time, folks won't play
these decks all the time in every game.
-Peter
RoddPrime
That is correct. I am fully focused on NAC at the moment and trying to
both understand and prepare to face certain decks that will most
likely be present so I am nob blind sided, as well as forming decks
that are high level play decks (aka Tier 1).
I can play fun decks later, but right now I need to try and have all
the gears in motion for Atlanta.
Dr.Mafrune
mean that you are blind on resources which can help your deck
amazingly. Resources/spices are options to make your deck a little
flexible, although your deck is pretty focused and it should be
attached to this principle. This little flexibility can prove to be
tactically necessary to win the table, not just one or two points.
You want to win against Tier 1 decks, don´t you?
Come anew and take a look at some cards of the deck I posted:
Restructure: ally decks (warghouls, hordes..) is one of your nemesis
decks, you really want put 2 or 3 restructure in your deck, not just
one. Carlton appears nearly in every table, if you get him, one rush
less you get.
Siby´s tongue: to put at least one of this cards is a must...you get
the right card at the right moment.
Walk through arcadia: it´s good resource, if you have no chances to
pass a wall. No one will expect it and that can be his death.
Touch of clarity: there are very tough dominate powerbleeders on
tournament enviroment. They deflect often and you don´t want help them
to make points. Don´t you?
The bitter and sweet story: this card is clearly made for very fast
decks like yours, a perpetual dreams of the sphinx and can be even
better. I would put it in without any hesitation.
Wrong and crosswise + delaying tactics: if you are very fast, it´s
very important that you get a good defence against politics. A pair of
direct intervention are good, but not enough.
Ashur tablets: the tablets is proven to be a powerful tool if you can
use it, and this kind of deck is an ideal candidate. You mainly use
kindred spirits, confusion, eyes of chaos, mind tricks and deny. 60
card decks have far better cycling than 90 cards decks.This card is at
least worth to be tested.
Dark influence: you asked about this card. It´s a good option to play,
because it can be played against you. You won´t like this card to be
played to the first-turn kindred spirit.
Jakob Sievers
Here's what I sleeved up for yesterday's Austrian ECQ:
Malk Deck Wins
CRYPT [12 cards]
Min draw: 9
Max draw: 19
Average capacity: 3.42
2x Jackie 3 DEM !Malk :4
2x Midget 3 DEM !Malk :3
1x Apache Jones 5 DEM !Malk :4
1x Persia, The Beautiful Statue 5 DEM Malk :3
1x Uncle George 5 DEM !Malk :3
1x Fabrizia Contreraz 4 dem archbishop !Malk :4
1x Sean Rycek 4 dem Malk :4
1x Marta 3 dem !Malk :4
1x Cassandra Langely, The Waif 2 dem Malk :4
1x Eddie Gaines 1 dem Caitiff:3
LIBRARY [60 cards]
Skills: none (15), dem (45)
Action [18]
18x Kindred Spirits
Action Modifier [22]
10x Confusion
7x Eyes of Chaos
5x Mind Tricks
Action Modifier/Combat [5]
5x Deny
Master [13]
2x Agent of Power
2x Dementation
2x Dreams of the Sphinx
2x Information Highway
2x Misdirection
2x Pentex(TM) Subversion
1x Anarch Troublemaker
Reaction [2]
2x Delaying Tactics
( $Id: malk_deck_wins.d,v 1.18 2009/09/19 13:25:34 j Exp $ )
The deck needs some more cards.
It would be nice to find room for Life Boon, Archon Investigation,
Wash, maybe Restructure.
An event module might consist of Narrow Minds + The Bitter and Sweet
Story, though I'm not convinced they're necessary.
Touch of Clarity? Meh.
Short personal report (sorry about missing players - I either
forgot or didn't know the correct spelling and didn't want to butcher
your names):
Martin Major won our embarrassingly tiny 15-player qualifier with an
Animalism Rush deck (possibly to be posted later).
Round 1
-------
Csaba Greguss (FoS Vote w/ Reckless Agitation & Waters of Duat) ->
Hardestadt gets pentexed -> Martin Weinmayer (Toolboxy Malk 94) ->
Norbert Broda (!Ventrue Bleed & Block) -> Me (Weenie DEM)
I bleed out my first prey on turn 4 after delaying a ConBoon, my next
prey on turn 6, Martin on turn 8 (or 9?), but can't get past the
!Ventrue, run out of cards and am ousted.
Result: Me GW3, Norbert Broda 2VP
Round 2
-------
Saulot Weenie Auspex -> Weenie Vote w/ obf -> Gyula Erdos (POT Princes)
-> Me -> Theo Bell Rush
I bleed out Theo, then use up most of my deck trying to pass an action
against Saulot, Martin Franckel & friends (I think I succeeded
once). Gyula backrushes the Weenie Voter who is swiftly ousted by
bleeds for two. I offer to backoust Gyula to be allowed to withdraw but
Saulot declines so Gyula takes the rest.
Result: Me 1VP, Saulot 1VP, Gyula GW3
Round 3
-------
Carna -> Peter Korsos (AUS/VIC something?) -> Theo Bell Rush -> Me ->
Martin Weinmayer
I oust Martin, then make a deal with my grandpredator for me to backoust
my predator then oust my prey with his help. I commence backbleeding,
but Peter is ousted by double-conditioning from Carna (who had shown
only intercept and some combat - this did not go as intended!).
The Carna deck takes out a weakened Theo Bell (I had bled him down to 6
pool), but loses two minions in the process (leaving it with only
Carna and Hannigan).
I pentex Carna and bleed her back down to about 8 pool before I run out
of library. We duel for a while but I eventually manage to oust her.
Result: Me GW3, Carna 2VP
2GW7 => first seed after dice roll with Gyula Erdos.
Final
-----
Animalism Rush
Saulot Weenie AUS -> Animalism Rush
Saulot Weenie AUS -> Animalism Rush -> Weenie Vote w/ obf
Saulot Weenie AUS -> Animalism Rush -> Weenie Vote w/ obf -> POT Princes
Saulot Weenie AUS -> Animalism Rush -> Weenie DEM -> Weenie Vote w/ obf ->
POT Princes
I bleed out my prey, then Martin torporizes all my Vampires, plays Fame
& Dragonbound and ousts me. Guyla doesn't draw any combat so Martin
ousts him as well. Martin wins a lengthy duel.
Congratulations to Martin and thanks to everyone for attending!
cheers,
-jakob
Peter D Bakija
> I can respect that you are fully concentrated on NAC, but that doesn´t
> mean that you are blind on resources which can help your deck
> amazingly.
And yet the deck in question (super focused DEM weenie bleed) is
incredibly effective as presented. Yes. Sometimes you will suffer due
to the incredible focus. But the trade off is that it is also
incredibly focused, which often just means "I sweep the table wuickly
and efficiently". Sometimes it is worth playing decks like that.
Should all decks be like this? No, of course not. But this deck is an
example of a very successful deck design. And as Rod is interested in
understanding them, this is a good exercise for doing that. Making and
playing such a deck gives you a very good sense of how it works and
how it plays.
-Peter
RoddPrime
The Malk 1.0 and 2.0 decks I have played were mostly shark with the
only spice cards being Madman's Quill, Pentex, Momentum's Edge, From a
Sinking Ship, and Secure Haven (Quill only in the 2.0).
Bitter and Sweet Story could be good. Sibyl's tongue could very much
be a wasted action in a deck like this. Touch of Clarity (I own one
and they are uber rare), plus that leads into using wakes which
further starts to lose the decks focus. Tablets aren't needed if the
deck is focused as I probably won't be running out of cards anytime
soon.
This will be the singularly most focused bleed deck I own. And I have
considered building a deck with a similar theme you mention (or with
more wake/misdirections/tactics), but that would really make it a
different deck.
Super Focus allows for a lot less potential for hand jam and while
flexibility is good for most decks I don't think I will include most
of the cards you mentioned (bitter and sweet story might find it's
way), but that isn't to offend you, but I think it is two different
decks designs altogether.
suoli
Bleeding the Vine? Cost shouldn't be an issue.
Agent could be Dive into Madness. It has the slight advantage of being
immediately playable even when you draw it during the minion phase.
John P.
> I have updated the deck list........
>
> Card Name Quantity
> Vampires
> Jeremy Talbot 1
> Adilaide 1
> Fabrizia 1
> Beauregard 1
> Cassandra 1
> Marta 1
> Midget 1
> Jackie 1
> Persia, The Beautiful Statue 1
> Apache Jones 1
> Uncle George 1
> Eddie Gaines 1
Consider Luc. His special is very useful at getting rid of cards you
are jamming up on or drawing extra cards for the increased chance of
getting what you need. I've never run the mono-dementation though so
perhaps his inferior makes it not as useful.
> Actions
> Kindred Spirits 22
> Restructure 1
A Madman's quill for extra bleed power. One or two can go along way.
> Action Modifiers
> Eyes of Chaos 15
> Confusion 15
> Mind Tricks 10
> Deny 10
I would adjust the ratios slightly. As Eyes of chaos and confusion
cannot be played on the same minion's action you're basically at three
stealth max assuming superior DEM. If they stop blocking you you're
going to choke on stealth. 12/12/8/8
> Master
> Barrens, The 1
> Dementation 5
> Direct Intervention 2
> Dreams of the Sphinx 2
> Pentex Subersion 2
> Agent of Power 2
> Sudden Reversal 2
16 masters is too many for this deck with 2 trifles. Lose a couple of
dementation and replace with Dive into Madness as someone else
suggested.
Add either Life in the City for surprise lunge (instead of hunting) or
think about trimming some more masters and using Ashur Tablets
Other options:
zip guns for cycleable combat defense
Thats all I got.
John P.
Winnipeg
Dr.Mafrune
Responding to Peter, Super Focus is good as long as the trade off you
mentioned before gives you more opportunities to win than the little
flexibility, because if it gives you the same I would rather prefer a
little more variety ( notice that we are speaking of a few cards in a
deck, not more). In this mono DEM I have doubts if the trade-off is
worth of it, you apparently not. Maybe I should test both decks to be
convinced.
Responding to Rodimus Prime, I always reduce hand-jam opportunities
reducing the number of cards in my decks and it does the job pretty
well. In addition if you NEED perfect flow, like in this deck, you can
add certain cards (like you did): dreams, barrens, bitter&sweet. A 90
deck with tons of the same cards its calling for hand-jam.
Focusing us newly in the deck, I advice you Rod, if you don´t want to
use ashur tablets, to make a 70-75 card deck, not a 90 cards deck. You
will surely notice how better it works.
A card that I forgot to mention that can improve deck´s performance is
leverage.
PD: From a sinking ship.... what a low cast, dirty and cheap trick...
I like it a lot!!!! ;)
Have you think about including also Last Stand???
James Coupe
>Responding to Peter,
...
>Responding to Rodimus Prime,
Please follow Usenet convention and reply to the posts you're referring
to, and include relevant quotations from each post. It makes following
a conversation significantly easier.
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
Peter D Bakija
> Responding to Peter, Super Focus is good as long as the trade off you
> mentioned before gives you more opportunities to win than the little
> flexibility, because if it gives you the same I would rather prefer a
> little more variety ( notice that we are speaking of a few cards in a
> deck, not more).
Oh, sure. Completely reasonable. But in this particular instance, the
whole point is to try out a deck that is stupidly focused. Yeah, it
might suffer from lack of diversity and lack of flexibility. But that
is the price to be paid for pure, ridiculous focus. Maybe Rodd will
play it a couple times and decide it needs more rounded out card
selections. But maybe not. It is one of those experiments that way.
-Peter
librarian
>
> Final
> -----
> Animalism Rush
> Saulot Weenie AUS -> Animalism Rush
> Saulot Weenie AUS -> Animalism Rush -> Weenie Vote w/ obf
> Saulot Weenie AUS -> Animalism Rush -> Weenie Vote w/ obf -> POT Princes
> Saulot Weenie AUS -> Animalism Rush -> Weenie DEM -> Weenie Vote w/ obf ->
> POT Princes
>
> I bleed out my prey, then Martin torporizes all my Vampires, plays Fame
> & Dragonbound and ousts me. Guyla doesn't draw any combat so Martin
> ousts him as well. Martin wins a lengthy duel.
I'm going to try to deduce here: Martin is the Ani Rush. Guyla is Saulot?
best -
chris
Jakob Sievers
> I'm going to try to deduce here: Martin is the Ani Rush. Guyla is Saulot?
No, POT Princes (c.f. round 2).
cheers,
-jakob