Re: 10 new cards
LSJ
news:41af3a0d$0$6879$79c1...@nan-newsreader-05.noos.net...
>
> "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> a écrit dans le message de
> news:318rrlF...@individual.net...
> > "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
> > news:318r3dF...@individual.net...
> > > > > Rastacourere
> > > It doesn't affect the prisci (except for prisci with votes in the
> > > main referendum) beyond the loss of stealth and capacity.
> >
> > Scratch the "except main referendum" part. I was just thinking of -1
> > vote when I wrote that and glossing over the "title are worth" part.
>
> so it effectively hoses a prisci ? :)
Only by stealth and capacity. See above.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu
Reyda
"Daneel" <dan...@eposta.hu> a écrit dans le message de
news:opsid3v6...@news.chello.hu...
> On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 11:35:38 -0500, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>
> > "Reyda" <true_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:41af3a0d$0$6879$79c1...@nan-newsreader-05.noos.net...
> >>
> >> "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> a écrit dans le message de
> >> news:318rrlF...@individual.net...
> >> > "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
> >> > news:318r3dF...@individual.net...
> >> > > > > Rastacourere
> >> > > It doesn't affect the prisci (except for prisci with votes in the
> >> > > main referendum) beyond the loss of stealth and capacity.
> >> >
> >> > Scratch the "except main referendum" part. I was just thinking of -1
> >> > vote when I wrote that and glossing over the "title are worth" part.
> >>
> >> so it effectively hoses a prisci ? :)
> >
> > Only by stealth and capacity. See above.
>
> Cardtype: Political Action
> Political Card - Worth 1 Vote. Called by any Independent vampire at +1
> stealth.
> Allocate X points among one or more ready vampires, where X is half the
> capacity of the acting vampire (rounded up). No more than 3 points can be
> allocated to a single vampire. Successful referendum means each vampire
> burns 1 blood for each point assigned. In this referendum, titles are
> worth 1 less vote each (even in the prisci sub-referendum), and burning
> the Edge for a vote is worth an additional vote.
>
> Assuming that text in parentheses is only a clarification, I fail to see
> the difference.
that was my point exactly =)
Joscha Duell
I'd like to know what do you think about the 10 new cards from the
tins?
Rastacourere
Action
1 pool
+1 stealth
D Put this card on a titled vampire. The vampire's title is worth 1
less vote during refer., and he or she getzs -1 stealth when attempt.
polit. actions. This vampire's cap. is reduced by 1 (not going below 1
blah). A vamp. may have only 1 Rastacourere.
Powerbase: Los Angeles
Master: unique loc.
Tap during your discard phase to gain a discard phase action. If you
use that discard phase action to discard a card that requires an
anarch or a card that makes a vamp. an anarch you may untap a ready
anarch. Any anarch controlled by another Meth. may steal this loc. for
his Meth. as a D-action.
Polaris Coach
Vehicle. Haven.
1 blood
During your untap phase, move 1 blood from this vamp. to the PC or
burn the PC. While this vamp. is acting, he or she may burn one
counter from the PC to get +1 stealth for the current action. During
undirected actions and actions that are not directed at this vamp., he
or she cannot block or play reaction cards. A minion may have only one
haven and only one vehicle.
Orc of Ulain
Unique equipment
The ALLY with this equipment cannot be targeted by D-actions that
require aus, chi, dom, pre, ser. Reactions that require any of those
disc. cost an add. blood while this ally is acting.
Liquidation
Master. Do not replace until your next discard phase.
Burn seven cards from the top of your library to gain 3 pool.
Insurance Scam
Master
Put this card in play. During your turn, you may tap this card and
burn X locations you control to gain X pool.
Channel 10
Master: unique location
2 pool
Tap to give a minion you control +2 intercept for the current action.
Not usable on the first action in a minion phase.
Charlton Van Wyk (Hunter)
Unique mortal ally with 2 life
0 strength, 0 bleed.
2 pool
Carlton can strike for 1R. may dodge as a strike once each combat, +1
intercept when blocking vamp. During your discard phase you may burn
Carlton to burn a vamp. who has committed diablerie since your last
turn.
Caiaphas Smith
is known and discussed elsewhere in a thread.
Unique mortal with 2 life. 1 strength, 0 bleed.
1 pool
Caiaphas may strike for 1 R damage. C. gets an optional maneuver each
combat. Any vamp. blocking C. is burned after the combat (if any). C.
cannot bleed. If he is untapped at the start of your turn, your pred.
takes control of him.
Bowl of Convergence
Unique equipment.
If the bearer is a vampire who has aus, the bearer gets +1 intercept.
If the bearer has AUS, he or she can burn 1 blood once during each
action to get an add. +1 intercept for the current action.
Daneel
> "Reyda" <true_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:41af3a0d$0$6879$79c1...@nan-newsreader-05.noos.net...
>>
>> "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> a écrit dans le message de
>> news:318rrlF...@individual.net...
>> > "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
>> > news:318r3dF...@individual.net...
>> > > > > Rastacourere
>> > > It doesn't affect the prisci (except for prisci with votes in the
>> > > main referendum) beyond the loss of stealth and capacity.
>> >
>> > Scratch the "except main referendum" part. I was just thinking of -1
>> > vote when I wrote that and glossing over the "title are worth" part.
>>
>> so it effectively hoses a prisci ? :)
>
> Only by stealth and capacity. See above.
Free States Rant [FN:C2, Anarchs:PAB2]
Cardtype: Political Action
Political Card - Worth 1 Vote. Called by any Independent vampire at +1
stealth.
Allocate X points among one or more ready vampires, where X is half the
capacity of the acting vampire (rounded up). No more than 3 points can be
allocated to a single vampire. Successful referendum means each vampire
burns 1 blood for each point assigned. In this referendum, titles are
worth 1 less vote each (even in the prisci sub-referendum), and burning
the Edge for a vote is worth an additional vote.
Assuming that text in parentheses is only a clarification, I fail to see
the difference.
--
Bye,
Daneel
LSJ
news:opsid3v6...@news.chello.hu...
> On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 11:35:38 -0500, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> > "Reyda" <true_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> so it effectively hoses a prisci ? :)
> >
> > Only by stealth and capacity. See above.
>
> Free States Rant [FN:C2, Anarchs:PAB2]
> the difference.
With that assumption, there is no difference, true.
Without the assumption, though, you can reach the official state.
Stefan Ferenci
> I posted it already elsewhere. But it wasn't discussed afterwards. So
> I'd like to know what do you think about the 10 new cards from the
> tins?
>
> Rastacourere
> Action
> 1 pool
> +1 stealth
> D Put this card on a titled vampire. The vampire's title is worth 1
> less vote during refer., and he or she getzs -1 stealth when attempt.
> polit. actions. This vampire's cap. is reduced by 1 (not going below 1
> blah). A vamp. may have only 1 Rastacourere.
>
junk
> Powerbase: Los Angeles
> Master: unique loc.
> Tap during your discard phase to gain a discard phase action. If you
> use that discard phase action to discard a card that requires an
> anarch or a card that makes a vamp. an anarch you may untap a ready
> anarch. Any anarch controlled by another Meth. may steal this loc. for
> his Meth. as a D-action.
>
usefull
> Polaris Coach
> Vehicle. Haven.
> 1 blood
> During your untap phase, move 1 blood from this vamp. to the PC or
> burn the PC. While this vamp. is acting, he or she may burn one
> counter from the PC to get +1 stealth for the current action. During
> undirected actions and actions that are not directed at this vamp., he
> or she cannot block or play reaction cards. A minion may have only one
> haven and only one vehicle.
>
stealth is always good
> Orc of Ulain
> Unique equipment
> The ALLY with this equipment cannot be targeted by D-actions that
> require aus, chi, dom, pre, ser. Reactions that require any of those
> disc. cost an add. blood while this ally is acting.
>
don´t know, good but cornercase
> Liquidation
> Master. Do not replace until your next discard phase.
> Burn seven cards from the top of your library to gain 3 pool.
>
a govanni card and a good one by the way
> Insurance Scam
> Master
> Put this card in play. During your turn, you may tap this card and
> burn X locations you control to gain X pool.
>
its sad its not x were x is the cost of the location
> Channel 10
> Master: unique location
> 2 pool
> Tap to give a minion you control +2 intercept for the current action.
> Not usable on the first action in a minion phase.
>
like the location
> Charlton Van Wyk (Hunter)
> Unique mortal ally with 2 life
> 0 strength, 0 bleed.
> 2 pool
> Carlton can strike for 1R. may dodge as a strike once each combat, +1
> intercept when blocking vamp. During your discard phase you may burn
> Carlton to burn a vamp. who has committed diablerie since your last
> turn.
>
awesome
> Caiaphas Smith
> is known and discussed elsewhere in a thread.
> Unique mortal with 2 life. 1 strength, 0 bleed.
> 1 pool
> Caiaphas may strike for 1 R damage. C. gets an optional maneuver each
> combat. Any vamp. blocking C. is burned after the combat (if any). C.
> cannot bleed. If he is untapped at the start of your turn, your pred.
> takes control of him.
>
in the right situation a killer but usually i guess just hand jamming
>
> Bowl of Convergence
> Unique equipment.
> If the bearer is a vampire who has aus, the bearer gets +1 intercept.
> If the bearer has AUS, he or she can burn 1 blood once during each
> action to get an add. +1 intercept for the current action.
permant intercept me like that
stefan
Reyda
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:318rrlF...@individual.net...
> "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
> news:318r3dF...@individual.net...
> > > > Rastacourere
> > It doesn't affect the prisci (except for prisci with votes in the
> > main referendum) beyond the loss of stealth and capacity.
>
> Scratch the "except main referendum" part. I was just thinking of -1
> vote when I wrote that and glossing over the "title are worth" part.
so it effectively hoses a prisci ? :)
Johannes Walch
> Action
> 1 pool
> +1 stealth
> D Put this card on a titled vampire. The vampire's title is worth 1
> less vote during refer., and he or she getzs -1 stealth when attempt.
> polit. actions. This vampire's cap. is reduced by 1 (not going below 1
> blah). A vamp. may have only 1 Rastacourere.
Usefull esp. against Arika and stuff.
> Powerbase: Los Angeles
> Master: unique loc.
> Tap during your discard phase to gain a discard phase action. If you
> use that discard phase action to discard a card that requires an
> anarch or a card that makes a vamp. an anarch you may untap a ready
> anarch. Any anarch controlled by another Meth. may steal this loc. for
> his Meth. as a D-action.
Quite OK. Obviously usefull when playing events.
> Polaris Coach
> Vehicle. Haven.
> 1 blood
> During your untap phase, move 1 blood from this vamp. to the PC or
> burn the PC. While this vamp. is acting, he or she may burn one
> counter from the PC to get +1 stealth for the current action. During
> undirected actions and actions that are not directed at this vamp., he
> or she cannot block or play reaction cards. A minion may have only one
> haven and only one vehicle.
Can be interesting. One of the few sources of permanent stealth.
> Orc of Ulain
> Unique equipment
> The ALLY with this equipment cannot be targeted by D-actions that
> require aus, chi, dom, pre, ser. Reactions that require any of those
> disc. cost an add. blood while this ally is acting.
Well, too cornercase.
> Liquidation
> Master. Do not replace until your next discard phase.
> Burn seven cards from the top of your library to gain 3 pool.
If it was a permanent very usefull.
Can be interesting in a Pochtli Deck.
> Insurance Scam
> Master
> Put this card in play. During your turn, you may tap this card and
> burn X locations you control to gain X pool.
Probably interesting with Foundation Exhibit. Burn it at end of turn for 1
pool before it gets destroyed anyway.
> Channel 10
> Master: unique location
> 2 pool
> Tap to give a minion you control +2 intercept for the current action.
> Not usable on the first action in a minion phase.
Broken. Who needed yet another Intercept Location.
> Charlton Van Wyk (Hunter)
> Unique mortal ally with 2 life
> 0 strength, 0 bleed.
> 2 pool
> Carlton can strike for 1R. may dodge as a strike once each combat, +1
> intercept when blocking vamp. During your discard phase you may burn
> Carlton to burn a vamp. who has committed diablerie since your last
> turn.
Good ally. With Unmasking +2 intercept, powerfull special. Cool card.
> Caiaphas Smith
> is known and discussed elsewhere in a thread.
> Unique mortal with 2 life. 1 strength, 0 bleed.
> 1 pool
> Caiaphas may strike for 1 R damage. C. gets an optional maneuver each
> combat. Any vamp. blocking C. is burned after the combat (if any). C.
> cannot bleed. If he is untapped at the start of your turn, your pred.
> takes control of him.
Very interesting in a deck where you are able to steal him back.
> Bowl of Convergence
> Unique equipment.
> If the bearer is a vampire who has aus, the bearer gets +1 intercept.
> If the bearer has AUS, he or she can burn 1 blood once during each
> action to get an add. +1 intercept for the current action.
Very broken. As the Tremere hadn´t enough intercept.
--
johannes walch
LSJ
> What's the point of clarifying, when you can not be sure whether
> you are looking at a clarification, or an alteration of the effect?
Clarification, of course.
One need not "be sure" if the text is superfluous or not.
One need only follow the text.
> Clarifications are supposed to make the meaning clear.
Correct.
In the case of Free States Rant, the Prisci bit is additional
(or extension of the) effect, not a clarification.
> I think that
> if the only way to know whether something printed on a card is a
> clarification or an alteration to its effect is to check the errata,
> rulings and clarifications, then the point seems to have been defeated...
No.
The point of a clarification is to ward off some questions.
Actual clarifications do that, and so the point is not defeated.
The point of some card texts, like the Prisci bit on FSR and
the round down bit on Alastor, is to describe the effect of the
card. This is also not defeated.
Daneel
>> I think that
>> if the only way to know whether something printed on a card is a
>> clarification or an alteration to its effect is to check the errata,
>> rulings and clarifications, then the point seems to have been
>> defeated...
>
> No.
> The point of a clarification is to ward off some questions.
> Actual clarifications do that, and so the point is not defeated.
Yeah, like Telepathic Tracking. A completely clear text except for the
part in parentheses. Since the card is clear, knowing that the part in
parentheses is a clarification (and can be ignored as such) is necessary
to understand it correctly, because attempting to decipher it is highly
confusing.
The point is, if you know that some part of the text is clarification you
can ignore is (and only consult it if there is uncertainty regarding the
effect). If it is an alteration, you may not choose to ignore it.
So you must know which text is effect and which is comment to avoid the
mistake of misinterpreting a card. In this sense not knowing what is a
clarification actually yields questions instead of warding them off.
> The point of some card texts, like the Prisci bit on FSR and
> the round down bit on Alastor, is to describe the effect of the
> card. This is also not defeated.
If you say so.
But please stop putting "clarifications" on card texts. Or use a different
font type for them. Otherwise they are pointless, because trying to alter
an effect based on a clarification or ignoring an alteration leads to
misunderstanding (for which you need to consult the rules anyway).
Example: FSR has a part of text in parentheses. If you consider it to be a
clarification (which you would logically do based on precedent and
semantics) you will misunderstand Rastacourere. If you consider the text
in parentheses on TT to be an alteration, you will misunderstand the
card's effect.
Et cetera.
--
Bye,
Daneel
Daneel
> I posted it already elsewhere. But it wasn't discussed afterwards. So
> I'd like to know what do you think about the 10 new cards from the
> tins?
>
> Rastacourere
> Action
> 1 pool
> +1 stealth
> D Put this card on a titled vampire. The vampire's title is worth 1
> less vote during refer., and he or she getzs -1 stealth when attempt.
> polit. actions. This vampire's cap. is reduced by 1 (not going below 1
> blah). A vamp. may have only 1 Rastacourere.
Dislike. Arika OBF vote is already way more powerful than Sir Walter
Nash Law Firm, and this card hurts Nash way more than it hurts Arika.
It also completely hoses Prisci. For its other use I would have
preferred something like this:
Event
No methuselah may use more than 1 master phase action each turn except
if he or she plays a Trifle Master (which normally yields an additional
MPA).
> Powerbase: Los Angeles
> Master: unique loc.
> Tap during your discard phase to gain a discard phase action. If you
> use that discard phase action to discard a card that requires an
> anarch or a card that makes a vamp. an anarch you may untap a ready
> anarch. Any anarch controlled by another Meth. may steal this loc. for
> his Meth. as a D-action.
If it weren't for the steal clause, I'd say cool. Since there is, I say
maybe.
> Polaris Coach
> Vehicle. Haven.
> 1 blood
> During your untap phase, move 1 blood from this vamp. to the PC or
> burn the PC. While this vamp. is acting, he or she may burn one
> counter from the PC to get +1 stealth for the current action. During
> undirected actions and actions that are not directed at this vamp., he
> or she cannot block or play reaction cards. A minion may have only one
> haven and only one vehicle.
This concept is alien to me (Harry P. gets a Polar express). The idea
of permanent stealth is interesting, though I'm not sure what the "while"
means. Can he get multiple stealth? If he can, good, if not, mediocre.
> Orc of Ulain
> Unique equipment
> The ALLY with this equipment cannot be targeted by D-actions that
> require aus, chi, dom, pre, ser. Reactions that require any of those
> disc. cost an add. blood while this ally is acting.
Interesting card probably worth a shot in Ally or Kyasid decks.
> Liquidation
> Master. Do not replace until your next discard phase.
> Burn seven cards from the top of your library to gain 3 pool.
Dislike. We don't need this. Of course, that's just what I said then
I saw my first Slaughterhouse...
> Insurance Scam
> Master
> Put this card in play. During your turn, you may tap this card and
> burn X locations you control to gain X pool.
Unnecessary. At least apparently. Of course, I'm playing with Dominique,
Advanced... ;)
> Channel 10
> Master: unique location
> 2 pool
> Tap to give a minion you control +2 intercept for the current action.
> Not usable on the first action in a minion phase.
Happy 10th anniversasy. Now I can block your minion with Polaris Coach.
Do we really need this arms race? I mean, we already have all the fix
Intercept on the world.
> Charlton Van Wyk (Hunter)
> Unique mortal ally with 2 life
> 0 strength, 0 bleed.
> 2 pool
> Carlton can strike for 1R. may dodge as a strike once each combat, +1
> intercept when blocking vamp. During your discard phase you may burn
> Carlton to burn a vamp. who has committed diablerie since your last
> turn.
Power in its purest form. You can wait for the right moment and hire
him when his services ar most needed (diablerie). Arika has vote lock,
and there are no princes in play to play Destruction? Good, how about
recruiting Carlton to immediately put an end to her for a measly 2 pool?
> Caiaphas Smith
> is known and discussed elsewhere in a thread.
> Unique mortal with 2 life. 1 strength, 0 bleed.
> 1 pool
> Caiaphas may strike for 1 R damage. C. gets an optional maneuver each
> combat. Any vamp. blocking C. is burned after the combat (if any). C.
> cannot bleed. If he is untapped at the start of your turn, your pred.
> takes control of him.
Still don't like it. We don't need more "burn vampire this, burn vampire
that" effects. IMHO.
> Bowl of Convergence
> Unique equipment.
> If the bearer is a vampire who has aus, the bearer gets +1 intercept.
> If the bearer has AUS, he or she can burn 1 blood once during each
> action to get an add. +1 intercept for the current action.
Interesting if perhaps somewhat overpowered. Will probably be a frequent
contester. Who needs Enhanced Senses, when you have the Bowl? Permanent
Intercept is way more useful than transient, because it never clogs your
hand.
--
Bye,
Daneel
LSJ
> But please stop putting "clarifications" on card texts.
No. They are useful to most players, present company's dissenting
opinion noted.
LSJ
> I thought that text in parentheses was officially clarification
> (I recall a debate on Telepathic Tracking in this issue).
No.
Aching Beauty
Acquired Ventrue Assets
Admonitions
Alastor
etc.
LSJ
news:318r3dF...@individual.net...
> > > Rastacourere
> It doesn't affect the prisci (except for prisci with votes in the
> main referendum) beyond the loss of stealth and capacity.
Scratch the "except main referendum" part. I was just thinking of -1
vote when I wrote that and glossing over the "title are worth" part.
--
Daneel
> "Daneel" <dan...@eposta.hu> wrote in message
> news:opsid3v6...@news.chello.hu...
>> On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 11:35:38 -0500, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>> > "Reyda" <true_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> > > > > Rastacourere
>> >> so it effectively hoses a prisci ? :)
>> >
>> > Only by stealth and capacity. See above.
>>
>> Free States Rant [FN:C2, Anarchs:PAB2]
>> Assuming that text in parentheses is only a clarification, I fail to see
>> the difference.
>
> With that assumption, there is no difference, true.
> Without the assumption, though, you can reach the official state.
I thought that text in parentheses was officially clarification
(I recall a debate on Telepathic Tracking in this issue).
What's the point of clarifying, when you can not be sure whether
you are looking at a clarification, or an alteration of the effect?
Clarifications are supposed to make the meaning clear. I think that
if the only way to know whether something printed on a card is a
clarification or an alteration to its effect is to check the errata,
rulings and clarifications, then the point seems to have been defeated...
--
Bye,
Daneel
Frederick Scott
"Johannes Walch" <johanne...@vekn.de> wrote in message
news:con9pp$mr2$1...@stu1id2.ip.tesion.net...
>> Powerbase: Los Angeles
>> Master: unique loc.
>> Tap during your discard phase to gain a discard phase action. If you
>> use that discard phase action to discard a card that requires an
>> anarch or a card that makes a vamp. an anarch you may untap a ready
>> anarch. Any anarch controlled by another Meth. may steal this loc. for
>> his Meth. as a D-action.
>
> Quite OK. Obviously usefull when playing events.
This one's great! Anarchs definitely needed the help and it's very
well designed.
>> Orc of Ulain
>> Unique equipment
>> The ALLY with this equipment cannot be targeted by D-actions that
>> require aus, chi, dom, pre, ser. Reactions that require any of those
>> disc. cost an add. blood while this ally is acting.
>
> Well, too cornercase.
I wouldn't even call it cornercase. It _might_ be a good extreme card
for ally-based decks if it weren't unique, but it is. And it's no good
for protecting a single valuable ally because you're not likely to draw
both near enough to each other in any given game to likely make much
impact with it. Someone explain why I would ever use this!
>> Liquidation
>> Master. Do not replace until your next discard phase.
>> Burn seven cards from the top of your library to gain 3 pool.
>
> If it was a permanent very usefull.
> Can be interesting in a Pochtli Deck.
Yup, that's the main use I can think of for it. Some kind of deck that
needs to have stuff in the graveyard (Shambling Hordes or something).
3 pool by itself just doesn't seem worth a master slot and 7 library
burns.
>> Insurance Scam
>> Master
>> Put this card in play. During your turn, you may tap this card and
>> burn X locations you control to gain X pool.
>
> Probably interesting with Foundation Exhibit. Burn it at end of turn for
> 1 pool before it gets destroyed anyway.
What, a master slot for _that_?!? Probably not. Perhaps in combination
with other tricks, though I'm challenged to imagine what at the moment.
>> Channel 10
>> Master: unique location
>> 2 pool
>> Tap to give a minion you control +2 intercept for the current action.
>> Not usable on the first action in a minion phase.
>
> Broken. Who needed yet another Intercept Location.
It's not broken and I sort of like the fact that intercept-less decks
can use multiple locations to make up for the lack. Given its weakness,
it's probably about right.
>
>> Charlton Van Wyk (Hunter)
>> Unique mortal ally with 2 life
>> 0 strength, 0 bleed.
>> 2 pool
>> Carlton can strike for 1R. may dodge as a strike once each combat, +1
>> intercept when blocking vamp. During your discard phase you may burn
>> Carlton to burn a vamp. who has committed diablerie since your last
>> turn.
>
> Good ally. With Unmasking +2 intercept, powerfull special. Cool card.
Not worth 2 pool.
>> Bowl of Convergence
>> Unique equipment.
>> If the bearer is a vampire who has aus, the bearer gets +1 intercept.
>> If the bearer has AUS, he or she can burn 1 blood once during each
>> action to get an add. +1 intercept for the current action.
>
> Very broken. As the Tremere hadn´t enough intercept.
Hardly broken. It's just a free Sport Bike for vampires with Auspex.
Rather like Mr. Winthrop but a little better, which is appropriate given
its limitation. So what?
Fred
LSJ
> > Rastacourere
> It also completely hoses Prisci. For its other use I would have
It doesn't affect the prisci (except for prisci with votes in the
main referendum) beyond the loss of stealth and capacity.
> > Polaris Coach
> This concept is alien to me (Harry P. gets a Polar express). The idea
> of permanent stealth is interesting, though I'm not sure what the "while"
> means. Can he get multiple stealth? If he can, good, if not, mediocre.
Yes.
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/4cf6d38e3881b381
LSJ
>>>> Liquidation
>>>> Master. Do not replace until your next discard phase.
>>>> Burn seven cards from the top of your library to gain 3 pool.
>
>
> I didn't find the answer anywhere (maybe I missed it), so here's the
> question:
>
> Can you play the card if you have less than 7 cards in your library? If
Yes. You burn the remainder of your library in that case.
> so, do you still gain 3 pool from it? I ask because the word "burn" used
No. Card text: "to"
> in the context of burning blood has interesting consequences to this
> effect if it is applicable.
It has the same meaning when use with "to" in regards to blood, as well.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Janne Hägglund
> > >> Bowl of Convergence
> > >> Unique equipment.
> > >> If the bearer is a vampire who has aus, the bearer gets +1 intercept.
> > >> If the bearer has AUS, he or she can burn 1 blood once during each
> > >> action to get an add. +1 intercept for the current action.
> Carna has +1 intercept. She can play Magic of the Smith for the Bowl.
> Then she would have +2 permanent intercept and +1 more for a blood.
> Sport Bike at least cost a pool, and it provides +1 intercept, not +2.
> And Mr.Winthrop can be killed. The Bowl is obviously broken!!!
The Bowl requires auspex. And superior auspex, to become more effective
than Mr. Winthrop.
In this game, cards that require a certain discipline or clan are *supposed*
to be better than cards that can be played by any minion.
Computer Hacking vs. Enchant Kindred.
Fake Out vs. Flash.
Lucky Blow vs. Undead Strength.
Bang Nakh vs. Femur of Toomler.
The Deadliest Sin vs. Eyes of the Dead - now wait a minute! :-)
--
hg@ "If you can't offend part of your audience,
iki.fi there is no point in being an artist at all." -Hakim Bey
Ector
> >> Liquidation
> >> Master. Do not replace until your next discard phase.
> >> Burn seven cards from the top of your library to gain 3 pool.
> >
> > If it was a permanent very usefull.
> > Can be interesting in a Pochtli Deck.
>
> Yup, that's the main use I can think of for it. Some kind of deck that
> needs to have stuff in the graveyard (Shambling Hordes or something).
> 3 pool by itself just doesn't seem worth a master slot and 7 library
> burns.
What??? Sometimes your library cards are nothing! You may play weenie
deck, Smiling Jack deck, Anarch Revolt deck or any other deck that
just ends the game quickly. And gaining 3 pool immediately is very
good for a master card. Expect it to appear in all blood-expensive
decks (Vicissitude, Chimerstry, Quietus) where you cannot regain blood
from your vampires with Minion Taps and Blood Dolls.
> >> Charlton Van Wyk (Hunter)
> >> Unique mortal ally with 2 life
> >> 0 strength, 0 bleed.
> >> 2 pool
> >> Carlton can strike for 1R. may dodge as a strike once each combat, +1
> >> intercept when blocking vamp. During your discard phase you may burn
> >> Carlton to burn a vamp. who has committed diablerie since your last
> >> turn.
> >
> > Good ally. With Unmasking +2 intercept, powerfull special. Cool card.
>
> Not worth 2 pool.
WHAT?? You get an ally that can block each political action, each
Govern, even each hunt of your neighbours and dodge or strike for 1R,
and he isn't worth 2 pool???? Plus the added threat against diablerie?
Plus the brilliant chance to play Fast Reaction with a strong vampire
after Charlton blocks????
> >> Bowl of Convergence
> >> Unique equipment.
> >> If the bearer is a vampire who has aus, the bearer gets +1 intercept.
> >> If the bearer has AUS, he or she can burn 1 blood once during each
> >> action to get an add. +1 intercept for the current action.
> >
> > Very broken. As the Tremere hadn´t enough intercept.
>
> Hardly broken. It's just a free Sport Bike for vampires with Auspex.
> Rather like Mr. Winthrop but a little better, which is appropriate given
> its limitation. So what?
_angst_
> > Rastacourere
> > Action
> > 1 pool
> > +1 stealth
> > D Put this card on a titled vampire. The vampire's title is worth 1
> > less vote during refer., and he or she getzs -1 stealth when attempt.
> > polit. actions. This vampire's cap. is reduced by 1 (not going below 1
> > blah). A vamp. may have only 1 Rastacourere.
> >
>
> junk
>
cannot enter golconda), it also hoses turbo-decks and soul-gem tech
decks that only use 1 vampire in the crypt.
It could also help non votepushing votedecks to aquire the votelock
and completely locks down an oldschool ventrue lawfirm with its -1
stealth thingy.
best wishes
//Alex Ek/_angst_
Joshua Duffin
"Stefan Ferenci" <a95+NO+58+NO+60no@SP+.unet.univie.+AM+.ac.at> wrote in
message news:41af5dad$0$11868$3b21...@usenet.univie.ac.at...
> > Insurance Scam
> > Master
> > Put this card in play. During your turn, you may tap this card and
> > burn X locations you control to gain X pool.
> >
>
> its sad its not x were x is the cost of the location
Maybe that was thought to be too strong a combo with Baldesar
Rossellini? :-) Or alternatively, too weak with 0-cost locations?
Congratulations on the ECQ win, by the way!
Josh
next time for sure!
Emmanuel Martin
> If you have Anson, Parthenon, Barrens, PB:LA and DotSphinx in play at
> the begining of your turn, what is the maximum number of cards you can
> discard (best chance)?
>
> .- Luis Duarte
I would say 78 (unless you use Pochtli) while playing 12 cards.
Anson rushes someone who has an haven uncovered at the table (or
bleeds and gets blocked)
He plays 12 consecutive infernal pursuits
Job Done
Anothe option : some other guy as seven raptors, Ir Googles and blocks
anson.
Each combat consists of "I manouver to long with googles, no other
cards" folloxed by psyche. The number of discarded cards can go very
high.
Daneel
> Daneel <dan...@eposta.hu> wrote in message
> news:<opsidz8o...@news.chello.hu>...
>
>> > Rastacourere
>> > Action
>> > 1 pool
>> > +1 stealth
>> > D Put this card on a titled vampire. The vampire's title is worth 1
>> > less vote during refer., and he or she getzs -1 stealth when attempt.
>> > polit. actions. This vampire's cap. is reduced by 1 (not going below 1
>> > blah). A vamp. may have only 1 Rastacourere.
>>
>> Dislike. Arika OBF vote is already way more powerful than Sir Walter
>> Nash Law Firm, and this card hurts Nash way more than it hurts Arika.
>
> It also makes Anson Golconda-proof, which might slow down the Anson
> Minion Tap/Golconda bloat engine that is so popular.. Still. The -1
> stealth on votes is I think more important.
Yes. That's what I was referring to in my suggested preference of
an event card that prevents gaining multiple MPAs (except for
Trifles) as for its "other use".
--
Bye,
Daneel
Hollowboy
> >> Unique equipment
> >> The ALLY with this equipment cannot be targeted by D-actions that
> >> require aus, chi, dom, pre, ser. Reactions that require any of those
> >> disc. cost an add. blood while this ally is acting.
> >
> > Well, too cornercase.
>
> I wouldn't even call it cornercase. It _might_ be a good extreme card
> for ally-based decks if it weren't unique, but it is. And it's no good
> for protecting a single valuable ally because you're not likely to draw
> both near enough to each other in any given game to likely make much
> impact with it. Someone explain why I would ever use this!
>
is deflection, intercept loacations and cheap Bruhaj allies with
concealed weapon + Saturday Night Special + Dragon's Breath rounds.
The offence is swarm bleed, and swarm rush via Memories of Mortality +
Haven Uncovered.
Now I will have the extra option of getting an Orc-wearing Political
Ally to bleed unblockably, and un-Deflectably.
The same kinda thing applies with a Settite / Shambler deck, and that
usually-crap mummy who bleeds for 2. Or Tremere / !Tremere ally decks,
and Thadius Zho.
You get Memories of Mortality.
Frederick Scott
news:e0b52d78.04120...@posting.google.com...
> 12 Liquidation (cycle fast and gain pool; better than Deal with the
> Devil!!)
Er, except for the fact that you don't get 7 new cards in hand.
Fred
Orpheus
8b87b6c9.04120...@posting.google.com...
> I posted it already elsewhere. But it wasn't discussed afterwards. So
> I'd like to know what do you think about the 10 new cards from the
> tins?
I wanted to propose the same thread. :-)
I won't read what others are posted so as to be totally neutral, so forgive
me if what I say has been said...
> Rastacourere
> Action
> 1 pool
> +1 stealth
> D Put this card on a titled vampire. The vampire's title is worth 1
> less vote during refer., and he or she getzs -1 stealth when attempt.
> polit. actions. This vampire's cap. is reduced by 1 (not going below 1
> blah). A vamp. may have only 1 Rastacourere.
Love it. People seem mixed about it but it's great against Inners. Or for
Anarch voters.
> Powerbase: Los Angeles
> Master: unique loc.
> Tap during your discard phase to gain a discard phase action. If you
> use that discard phase action to discard a card that requires an
> anarch or a card that makes a vamp. an anarch you may untap a ready
> anarch. Any anarch controlled by another Meth. may steal this loc. for
> his Meth. as a D-action.
Was I speaking of great cards for Anarchs ?!?!
> Polaris Coach
> Vehicle. Haven.
> 1 blood
> During your untap phase, move 1 blood from this vamp. to the PC or
> burn the PC. While this vamp. is acting, he or she may burn one
> counter from the PC to get +1 stealth for the current action. During
> undirected actions and actions that are not directed at this vamp., he
> or she cannot block or play reaction cards. A minion may have only one
> haven and only one vehicle.
Sort of useless. Even for giving stealth in a non-stealthy deck I think it
isn't worth the trouble.
> Orc of Ulain
LOL. Orc, really ? ;-)
> Unique equipment
> The ALLY with this equipment cannot be targeted by D-actions that
> require aus, chi, dom, pre, ser. Reactions that require any of those
> disc. cost an add. blood while this ally is acting.
Way too good !! Fortunately :
- War Ghouls are more efficient in twos or threes
- Restructure can still steal
- Now maybe Release of the Shackled SOul will see some use
> Liquidation
> Master. Do not replace until your next discard phase.
> Burn seven cards from the top of your library to gain 3 pool.
Good for Necromancers, and not only if they play Shamblings (more cards to
pick from, net pool gain...). I don't see any other use. Or maybe if Anatole
showed you 5 "bad" cards ?
> Insurance Scam
> Master
> Put this card in play. During your turn, you may tap this card and
> burn X locations you control to gain X pool.
Very, very cornercase. I do have just the idea that could work, though. A
cornercase idea of course...
> Channel 10
> Master: unique location
> 2 pool
> Tap to give a minion you control +2 intercept for the current action.
> Not usable on the first action in a minion phase.
Neither as bad or as great as it may first seem.
> Charlton Van Wyk (Hunter)
> Unique mortal ally with 2 life
> 0 strength, 0 bleed.
> 2 pool
> Carlton can strike for 1R. may dodge as a strike once each combat, +1
> intercept when blocking vamp. During your discard phase you may burn
> Carlton to burn a vamp. who has committed diablerie since your last
> turn.
WOW !! ANd does he cook too ?
> Caiaphas Smith
> is known and discussed elsewhere in a thread.
> Unique mortal with 2 life. 1 strength, 0 bleed.
> 1 pool
> Caiaphas may strike for 1 R damage. C. gets an optional maneuver each
> combat. Any vamp. blocking C. is burned after the combat (if any). C.
> cannot bleed. If he is untapped at the start of your turn, your pred.
> takes control of him.
Still no idea of how this guy can prove his usefulness. Of course, he can
burn cards in play (Madness, Paths, Smiling Jack etc) ; but is he worth the
trouble ?
> Bowl of Convergence
> Unique equipment.
> If the bearer is a vampire who has aus, the bearer gets +1 intercept.
> If the bearer has AUS, he or she can burn 1 blood once during each
> action to get an add. +1 intercept for the current action.
Now weenie intercept rules !! Did we really need such a powercard ? Will we
see the equivalent for Stealth (please not in Obf !). And don't say Polaris
Coach was it... ;-)
All in all interesting cards. I do feel like Intercept just got a big boost,
though (Bowl, the Loc and the ally). It didn't look in the EC like stealth
was anyone's biggest problem, though...
I *really* love the Powerbase !!!
--
Deadly yours,
Orpheus
John Flournoy
> > Rastacourere
> > Action
> > 1 pool
> > +1 stealth
> > D Put this card on a titled vampire. The vampire's title is worth 1
> > less vote during refer., and he or she getzs -1 stealth when attempt.
> > polit. actions. This vampire's cap. is reduced by 1 (not going below 1
> > blah). A vamp. may have only 1 Rastacourere.
>
> Dislike. Arika OBF vote is already way more powerful than Sir Walter
> Nash Law Firm, and this card hurts Nash way more than it hurts Arika.
It also makes Anson Golconda-proof, which might slow down the Anson
Minion Tap/Golconda bloat engine that is so popular.. Still. The -1
stealth on votes is I think more important.
-John Flournoy
Luis Duarte
> Powerbase: Los Angeles
> Master: unique loc.
> action.
> Liquidation
> Master. Do not replace until your next discard phase.
> Burn seven cards from the top of your library to gain 3 pool.
Deck Name: The 3VP Withdrawing deck (v1.0 by Luis Duarte)
Crypt:
6 Isabel de Leon, AUS
6 Anson
Library:
Masters (30):
4 Parthenon
4 Secure Haven (avoid combat)
2 Unnatural Disaster (e.g. to break other Secure Havens, Barrens)
12 Liquidation (cycle fast and gain pool; better than Deal with the
Devil!!)
2 Barrens
2 Powerbase:Los Angeles
2 Dreams of the Sphynx
2 Major Boon
Reactions (30): (discard what you don't need)
10 Delaying Tactics
10 Telepathic Counter
6 Obedience (Anson if Secure Haven not present)
4 WWEF
I know this is pretty stupid since you're playing to withdrawn fast,
and in a tournamente 3 VP (0 GW) won't lead anywhere! :)
Miller Delmardigan
> I posted it already elsewhere. But it wasn't discussed afterwards. So
> I'd like to know what do you think about the 10 new cards from the
> tins?
>
> Action
> 1 pool
> +1 stealth
> D Put this card on a titled vampire. The vampire's title is worth 1
> less vote during refer., and he or she getzs -1 stealth when attempt.
> polit. actions. This vampire's cap. is reduced by 1 (not going below 1
> blah). A vamp. may have only 1 Rastacourere.
=)
screws Anson Anarch decks instantly!
>
> Powerbase: Los Angeles
> Master: unique loc.
> Tap during your discard phase to gain a discard phase action. If you
> use that discard phase action to discard a card that requires an
> anarch or a card that makes a vamp. an anarch you may untap a ready
> anarch. Any anarch controlled by another Meth. may steal this loc. for
> his Meth. as a D-action.
Anarch stuff is always good.
>
> Polaris Coach
> Vehicle. Haven.
> 1 blood
> During your untap phase, move 1 blood from this vamp. to the PC or
> burn the PC. While this vamp. is acting, he or she may burn one
> counter from the PC to get +1 stealth for the current action. During
> undirected actions and actions that are not directed at this vamp., he
> or she cannot block or play reaction cards. A minion may have only one
> haven and only one vehicle.
good
>
> Orc of Ulain
> Unique equipment
> The ALLY with this equipment cannot be targeted by D-actions that
> require aus, chi, dom, pre, ser. Reactions that require any of those
> disc. cost an add. blood while this ally is acting.
why not
>
> Liquidation
> Master. Do not replace until your next discard phase.
> Burn seven cards from the top of your library to gain 3 pool.
shambling decks, who ho
>
> Insurance Scam
> Master
> Put this card in play. During your turn, you may tap this card and
> burn X locations you control to gain X pool.
Dominique?
>
> Channel 10
> Master: unique location
> 2 pool
> Tap to give a minion you control +2 intercept for the current action.
> Not usable on the first action in a minion phase.
awesome
>
> Charlton Van Wyk (Hunter)
> Unique mortal ally with 2 life
> 0 strength, 0 bleed.
> 2 pool
> Carlton can strike for 1R. may dodge as a strike once each combat, +1
> intercept when blocking vamp. During your discard phase you may burn
> Carlton to burn a vamp. who has committed diablerie since your last
> turn.
goodbye Muaziz and Tariq multi-rush decks
>
> Caiaphas Smith
> is known and discussed elsewhere in a thread.
> Unique mortal with 2 life. 1 strength, 0 bleed.
> 1 pool
> Caiaphas may strike for 1 R damage. C. gets an optional maneuver each
> combat. Any vamp. blocking C. is burned after the combat (if any). C.
> cannot bleed. If he is untapped at the start of your turn, your pred.
> takes control of him.
weird
>
>
> Bowl of Convergence
> Unique equipment.
> If the bearer is a vampire who has aus, the bearer gets +1 intercept.
> If the bearer has AUS, he or she can burn 1 blood once during each
> action to get an add. +1 intercept for the current action.
awesome! Matthias with Sight beyond sight and that equipment, for
example, or Omaya wall
Ankur Gupta
>>> Master. Do not replace until your next discard phase.
>>> Burn seven cards from the top of your library to gain 3 pool.
I didn't find the answer anywhere (maybe I missed it), so here's the
question:
Can you play the card if you have less than 7 cards in your library? If
so, do you still gain 3 pool from it? I ask because the word "burn" used
in the context of burning blood has interesting consequences to this
effect if it is applicable.
Ankur Gupta
Prince of West Lafayette, IN
Frederick Scott
"Hollowboy" <icantbelievehollow...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:614f2a39.04120...@posting.google.com...
>> >> Orc of Ulain
>> >> Unique equipment
>> >> The ALLY with this equipment cannot be targeted by D-actions that
>> >> require aus, chi, dom, pre, ser. Reactions that require any of those
>> >> disc. cost an add. blood while this ally is acting.
>> >
>> > Well, too cornercase.
>>
>> I wouldn't even call it cornercase. It _might_ be a good extreme card
>> for ally-based decks if it weren't unique, but it is. And it's no good
>> for protecting a single valuable ally because you're not likely to draw
>> both near enough to each other in any given game to likely make much
>> impact with it. Someone explain why I would ever use this!
>>
> Hmm... I have a presence hords, with cheap Bruhaj and Ventrue. Defence
> is deflection, intercept loacations and cheap Bruhaj allies with
> concealed weapon + Saturday Night Special + Dragon's Breath rounds.
> The offence is swarm bleed, and swarm rush via Memories of Mortality +
> Haven Uncovered.
>
> Now I will have the extra option of getting an Orc-wearing Political
> Ally to bleed unblockably, and un-Deflectably.
Ah, what makes you think the block is undeflecable? That part I don't
get.
In any case, I still refer to my original premise: how many Political
Allies and how many Orcs will you put in this deck? If the number of
both is large, you're wasting a lot of deck space to setup this one
guy. If the number is small, you're not going to draw both around the
same time very often - so you're going to constantly find yourself with
Ally and no Orc (bad) or Orc and no Ally (even worse).
> The same kinda thing applies with a Settite / Shambler deck, and that
> usually-crap mummy who bleeds for 2. Or Tremere / !Tremere ally decks,
> and Thadius Zho.
And my same kinda answer applies to it as well.
I suppose you can put throw in the Orc in hopes you'll draw it soon
before or soon after the "special" ally and use it on a "crap" ally
if you don't. Doesn't seem worthwhile for that case to me. And how
often will you draw Thadius to replace the Orc you just played on an
Outcast Mage, hmmmmm?
Fred
Derek Ray
Ec...@mail.ru (Ector) mumbled something about:
>> >> Bowl of Convergence
>> >> Unique equipment.
>> >> If the bearer is a vampire who has aus, the bearer gets +1 intercept.
>> >> If the bearer has AUS, he or she can burn 1 blood once during each
>> >> action to get an add. +1 intercept for the current action.
>> >
>> > Very broken. As the Tremere hadn´t enough intercept.
>>
>> Hardly broken. It's just a free Sport Bike for vampires with Auspex.
>> Rather like Mr. Winthrop but a little better, which is appropriate given
>> its limitation. So what?
>
>Carna has +1 intercept. She can play Magic of the Smith for the Bowl.
>Then she would have +2 permanent intercept and +1 more for a blood.
>Sport Bike at least cost a pool, and it provides +1 intercept, not +2.
>And Mr.Winthrop can be killed. The Bowl is obviously broken!!!
I tap the Anarch Troublemaker in my untap, naming the Bowl.
And now it's broken. So much for THAT piece of equipment.
Remind me again what amateurish stealth/bleed deck you have built that
didn't include at least two copies of Anarch Troublemaker?
-- Derek
a host is a host from coast to coast
and no one will talk to a host that's close
unless the host that isn't close
is busy, hung, or dead
Luis Duarte
Right. Those are handled selectively with The Barrens, Dreams of the
Sphinx, discard phase and the Liquidation you play.
.- Luis Duarte
Ankur Gupta
>
> No. Card text: "to"
That sneaky sneaky word "to". Got it. Thanks.
> It has the same meaning when use with "to" in regards to blood, as well.
Good to know.
Ankur
Kevin M.
>> Orc of Ulain
>> Unique equipment
>> The ALLY with this equipment cannot be targeted by D-actions that
>> require aus, chi, dom, pre, ser. Reactions that require any of those
>> disc. cost an add. blood while this ally is acting.
>
> unique, but it is. And it's no good for protecting a single valuable
ally
> because you're not likely to draw both near enough to each other in
> any given game to likely make much impact with it. Someone explain
> why I would ever use this!
Well, if it wasn't unique, or had said 'only one per player' or something,
don't you think that Bauble-WarGhoul-Orc decks would start mauling people
down? :)
> Fred
Kevin M., Prince of Henderson, NV (USA)
"Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Ector
> Ec...@mail.ru (Ector) writes:
>
> The Bowl requires auspex. And superior auspex, to become more effective
> than Mr. Winthrop.
>
> In this game, cards that require a certain discipline or clan are *supposed*
> to be better than cards that can be played by any minion.
Now what? Most of intercept decks use Auspex anyway, and Auspex is the
most common Discipline in the game. You can find Brujah with Auspex,
Nosferatu with Auspex, Assamites with Auspex, and others. The card is
just too strong, and it can be used by almost any clan.
Ector
Frederick Scott
"Ector" <Ec...@mail.ru> wrote in message news:d6c82c73.04120...@posting.google.com...
> "Frederick Scott" <nos...@no.spam.dot.com> wrote in message news:<FNJrd.81229$EZ.39624@okepread07>...
>
>> >> Liquidation
>> >> Master. Do not replace until your next discard phase.
>> >> Burn seven cards from the top of your library to gain 3 pool.
>> >
>> > If it was a permanent very usefull.
>> > Can be interesting in a Pochtli Deck.
>>
>> Yup, that's the main use I can think of for it. Some kind of deck that
>> needs to have stuff in the graveyard (Shambling Hordes or something).
>> 3 pool by itself just doesn't seem worth a master slot and 7 library
>> burns.
>
> What??? Sometimes your library cards are nothing! You may play weenie
> deck, Smiling Jack deck, Anarch Revolt deck or any other deck that
> just ends the game quickly. And gaining 3 pool immediately is very
> good for a master card. Expect it to appear in all blood-expensive
> decks (Vicissitude, Chimerstry, Quietus) where you cannot regain blood
> from your vampires with Minion Taps and Blood Dolls.
I agree three immediate pool is nice; I just think decks that absolutely
don't care about 7 library burns are rare. I guess an Anarch Revolt deck
may be a good counterexample. But I think anyone creating a deck that is
that fast should first consider reducing it to 60 cards - which will make
it _much_ more powerful - before thinking about throwing in something like
this to turn library into pool.
>> >> Charlton Van Wyk (Hunter)
>> >> Unique mortal ally with 2 life
>> >> 0 strength, 0 bleed.
>> >> 2 pool
>> >> Carlton can strike for 1R. may dodge as a strike once each combat, +1
>> >> intercept when blocking vamp. During your discard phase you may burn
>> >> Carlton to burn a vamp. who has committed diablerie since your last
>> >> turn.
>> >
>> > Good ally. With Unmasking +2 intercept, powerfull special. Cool card.
>>
>> Not worth 2 pool.
>
> WHAT?? You get an ally that can block each political action, each
> Govern, even each hunt of your neighbours and dodge or strike for 1R,
> and he isn't worth 2 pool????
Nope. Although he certainly has some nice abilities, he can get stolen
or killed too easily. (And, by the way, he can't block EACH political
action, Govern, or hunt - only one per turn. Assuming they aren't
stealthed or something.)
>> >> Bowl of Convergence
>> >> Unique equipment.
>> >> If the bearer is a vampire who has aus, the bearer gets +1 intercept.
>> >> If the bearer has AUS, he or she can burn 1 blood once during each
>> >> action to get an add. +1 intercept for the current action.
>> >
>> > Very broken. As the Tremere hadn´t enough intercept.
>>
>> Hardly broken. It's just a free Sport Bike for vampires with Auspex.
>> Rather like Mr. Winthrop but a little better, which is appropriate given
>> its limitation. So what?
>
> Carna has +1 intercept. She can play Magic of the Smith for the Bowl.
> Then she would have +2 permanent intercept and +1 more for a blood.
> Sport Bike at least cost a pool, and it provides +1 intercept, not +2.
It has a limitation, there's lots of ways to come up with 3 interecept,
permanent intercept isn't all that powerful. All you're doing is turning
Carna into a wall. Wall decks already exist and their drawback is not
not that it's hard to get them enough permanent intercept.
> And Mr.Winthrop can be killed.
So what? The bowl can be stolen.
> The Bowl is obviously broken!!!
It's a good card and the game probably did not need it but it's far
from broken.
Fred
Johannes Walch
>
> And now it's broken. So much for THAT piece of equipment.
>
> Remind me again what amateurish stealth/bleed deck you have built that
> didn't include at least two copies of Anarch Troublemaker?
So there can never be any broken equipment because you can always destroy it
with your Anarch Troublemaker? I cannot catch the logic in that!
And I played a very amateurish S&B. It had not a single Anarch Troublemaker
and still was good enough for final of Belgium Qualifier.
--
johannes walch
Joscha Duell
> >
> Orc of Ulain
> Unique equipment
> The ALLY with this equipment cannot be targeted by D-actions that
> require aus, chi, dom, pre, ser. Reactions that require any of those
> disc. cost an add. blood while this ally is acting.
>
Of course it is an "orb" not an orc. Excuses for that typo ;o).
(Although where is a Goblin there could even exist an orc).
James Coupe
<Ec...@mail.ru> writes:
>Now what? Most of intercept decks use Auspex anyway, and Auspex is the
>most common Discipline in the game. You can find Brujah with Auspex,
>Nosferatu with Auspex, Assamites with Auspex, and others. The card is
>just too strong, and it can be used by almost any clan.
Depending on your environment, I've seen Animalism and Chimerstry used
to great effect for intercept. (Certainly, the Animalism can be well
supplemented by Auspex with, e.g., the Tzimisce.)
There's also a lot of decks using some permanents, and mild intercept.
Definitely, Auspex can do some super good intercept decks, but I don't
think it's certain that most such decks use it.
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D Who's ever heard of that, though!
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 Designing a deck that just calls votes.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D That's crazy talk, there.
Reyda
"Janne Hägglund" <h...@iki.fi.remove.these.invalid> a écrit dans le message
de
> Computer Hacking vs. Enchant Kindred.
> Fake Out vs. Flash.
> Lucky Blow vs. Undead Strength.
> Bang Nakh vs. Femur of Toomler.
>
> The Deadliest Sin vs. Eyes of the Dead - now wait a minute! :-)
had a good laugh, thanks ;)
John Flournoy
> Carna has +1 intercept. She can play Magic of the Smith for the Bowl.
> Then she would have +2 permanent intercept and +1 more for a blood.
> Sport Bike at least cost a pool, and it provides +1 intercept, not +2.
> And Mr.Winthrop can be killed. The Bowl is obviously broken!!!
Mr. Winthrop can be killed - and the Bowl can be destroyed or stolen
by a wide variety of cards both in and out of combat, some of which
cannot be intercepted (as Derek notes, Anarch Troublemaker for
instance.)
As to 'the Bowl is obviously broken' - why don't you wait a couple of
weeks until people start playing with the card and see how that goes
before you declare that something is obviously broken?
I think it's safe to assume that the Bowl got playtested (as most if
not all new cards do) and therefore, that the playtesters didn't think
this card was so obviously, completely broken as you believe once they
actually tested it in play.
-John Flournoy
Derek Ray
"Johannes Walch" <joha...@scram.de> mumbled something about:
>> I tap the Anarch Troublemaker in my untap, naming the Bowl.
>>
>> And now it's broken. So much for THAT piece of equipment.
>>
>> Remind me again what amateurish stealth/bleed deck you have built that
>> didn't include at least two copies of Anarch Troublemaker?
>
>So there can never be any broken equipment because you can always destroy it
>with your Anarch Troublemaker? I cannot catch the logic in that!
Good thing that isn't what I said, huh?
He says stealth bleed cannot win because of the Bowl.
I say a stealth bleed deck that packs 2x AT and some Elder Impersonation
has nothing to fear from the Bowl. As someone else has pointed out,
Maris Streck didn't make the !Malks worthless; the Bowl isn't anywhere
near as good as she is.
I say the Bowl isn't even CLOSE to broken. A stealth bleed deck that
can't get past a single vampire with +2 intercept is going to have a lot
more trouble with the Toreador Prince decks that throw out 2nd
Traditions all over and still have Auspex backing them -- that aren't
using the Bowl and never would.
>And I played a very amateurish S&B. It had not a single Anarch Troublemaker
>and still was good enough for final of Belgium Qualifier.
Good players can overcome poor deckmaking decisions. ;)
Honestly, I can't imagine building an S&B deck without at least one,
because eventually someone is going to resort to leaving guys
(Deflectors, too) untapped. You want to attack the Wakes in that
situation, so the AT will give you a VP in almost every game.
Joscha Duell
> news:con9pp$mr2$1...@stu1id2.ip.tesion.net...
> > >> Bowl of Convergence
> >> Unique equipment.
> >> If the bearer is a vampire who has aus, the bearer gets +1 intercept.
> >> If the bearer has AUS, he or she can burn 1 blood once during each
> >> action to get an add. +1 intercept for the current action.
> >
> > Very broken. As the Tremere hadn´t enough intercept.
>
> Hardly broken. It's just a free Sport Bike for vampires with Auspex.
> Rather like Mr. Winthrop but a little better, which is appropriate given
> its limitation. So what?
>
I'm justs playing a deck with Lucas Halton, the Trem. Prince. He
equips with the Bowl and then has potentially 4 Intercept with every
2nd Trad., staying untapped after the block. Guess what, of course he
get's an AR and sits there forever, getting blood back with Taste of
Vitae.
I don't think it's broken. But it is very strong, much stronger than
Winthrop and Sport Bike.
Ector
> In message <coq4jm$cs2$1...@stu1id2.ip.tesion.net>,
> "Johannes Walch" <joha...@scram.de> mumbled something about:
>
> >> didn't include at least two copies of Anarch Troublemaker?
had Anarch Troublemaker. It can really save your life, though, thanks
for the idea!
Unfortunately, I don't see this as a remedy against a deck with TWO
bowls and six Magics of the Smith. Having a good luck, you will burn
the first Bowl, passing the Troublemaker to your prey, and that's all.
Your prey will find the second Bowl, and your second Troublemaker
won't help you.
> He says stealth bleed cannot win because of the Bowl.
>
> I say a stealth bleed deck that packs 2x AT and some Elder Impersonation
> has nothing to fear from the Bowl. As someone else has pointed out,
> Maris Streck didn't make the !Malks worthless; the Bowl isn't anywhere
> near as good as she is.
Why Maris Streck should make the !Malks wothless? And why do you
compare her to the Bowl?
> I say the Bowl isn't even CLOSE to broken. A stealth bleed deck that
> can't get past a single vampire with +2 intercept is going to have a lot
> more trouble with the Toreador Prince decks that throw out 2nd
> Traditions all over and still have Auspex backing them -- that aren't
> using the Bowl and never would.
Toreador Princes WILL use the Bowl immediately, as soon as they will
found a way to fetch it and equip it without being blocked. Toreador
Grand Ball and Vast Wealth may help them. Why don't you see that the
Bowl doesn't compete with Second Traditions, but makes a good combo
with them? Untap and block with +3 intercept (possible +4) for one
permanent card and one transient - who needs "+1 intercept" cards
anymore?
> Honestly, I can't imagine building an S&B deck without at least one,
> because eventually someone is going to resort to leaving guys
> (Deflectors, too) untapped. You want to attack the Wakes in that
> situation, so the AT will give you a VP in almost every game.
Troublemaker is good, but master slots are limited. Usually I prefer
extra Sudden Reversal, as it makes the difference far more often than
AI. Nevertheless, AI is a good card, and it can really help against
Bowls if they have no Magics. Maybe things aren't as bad as I
thought...
Ector
Ector
Troublemaker can save against "occasional" Bowl, but how many
Troublemakers can I use? Surely, I can fetch my Troublemaker with
Sibyl's Tongue... UNLESS a vampire with the Bowl will block it.
Anyway, Troublemaker isn't a remedy against a deck with TWO Bowls and
six Magics of the Smith, as they can fetch another Bowl.
Let's stop the discussion about "brokenness", since it wouldn't lead
us anywhere. The Bowl will definitely change the metagame: most
stealth decks will die, and the remaining stealth decks would pack at
least two different "no-blocking" cards like Elder Impersonation and
Seduction.
I don't know who tested the card and how they tested it. I also don't
know whether it was the designer's intention to destroy stealth decks
or not. But I see that this card is going to do this. Should I provide
a decklist to convince you?
Ector
Ector
You can create even more devastating decks with the Bowl - what about
AUS/THA/CEL deck with Lucas Halton, Javier Montoya, Anastaszi Zagreb
and Yitzak? Who needs Taste of Vitae if you can Theft, Blur and play
two more Thefts? :)
And don't forget Channel 10!
Ector
James Coupe
>stealth decks will die,
Rubbish.
It's a unique piece of equipment, for a start.
1) How many is the intercept deck packing?
2) How many is the stealth deck packing, to foil it?
The Lasombra
>> I don't think it's broken. But it is very strong, much stronger than
>> Winthrop and Sport Bike.
>Oh, at least one person can see obvious things! :) Thanks a lot!
And he drew the right conclusion, while you did not.
Carrion Crows and Drawing out the Beast will hose the deck he
mentions, as will Kiss of Ra.
Canine Horde, Fractured Armament, and Shattering Blow will kill it as
well.
>You can create even more devastating decks with the Bowl - what about
>AUS/THA/CEL deck with Lucas Halton, Javier Montoya, Anastaszi Zagreb
>and Yitzak? Who needs Taste of Vitae if you can Theft, Blur and play
>two more Thefts? :)
Kiss of Ra destroys these decks.
These decks are not going to be uber-plentiful.
Equip with the Bowl yourself if you think it will have any negative
affect on your play. Use Sybil's Tongue to guarantee you have it
first.
Add fortitude skill cards to Theron or Artemis and play Kiss of Ra
yourself, instead of waiting for the Ventrue or Harbingers to do it
for you.
>And don't forget Channel 10!
Sudden Reversal is your friend, you should be playing it in your
stealth bleed deck to prevent your prey's Minion Taps and other
intercept locations anyway.
Arson and Unnatural Disaster are also appropriate.
Disputed Territory with Elder Impersonation and Private Audience makes
your day.
The sky is not falling.
Carpe noctem.
Lasombra
Xian
>You can create even more devastating decks with the Bowl - what about
>AUS/THA/CEL deck with Lucas Halton, Javier Montoya, Anastaszi Zagreb
>and Yitzak? Who needs Taste of Vitae if you can Theft, Blur and play
>two more Thefts? :)
I challenge you to come up with a deck that relies on Theft/Blur, uses
your above-mentioned crypt selection (and not Goratrix), and can
actually regularly win a table. I'd really like to see your ratio of
Theft/Blur to the rest of the deck.
Note: I'm not talking "can win the table once"...I mean, can win
better than 20% of the time, at a 10+ player tournament.
Xian
Derek Ray
>Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<ekb2r09c4d3rrcaod...@4ax.com>...
>> In message <coq4jm$cs2$1...@stu1id2.ip.tesion.net>,
>> "Johannes Walch" <joha...@scram.de> mumbled something about:
>>
>> >> Remind me again what amateurish stealth/bleed deck you have built that
>> >> didn't include at least two copies of Anarch Troublemaker?
>
>Let TWDA be our judge: only one of the five S&B winning decks in 2004
>had Anarch Troublemaker. It can really save your life, though, thanks
>for the idea!
Good play can overcome a poor deckbuilding choice. It should have been
in all five.
>Unfortunately, I don't see this as a remedy against a deck with TWO
>bowls and six Magics of the Smith. Having a good luck, you will burn
>the first Bowl, passing the Troublemaker to your prey, and that's all.
>Your prey will find the second Bowl, and your second Troublemaker
>won't help you.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I refer you to the actual chances of drawing this stuff early on, when
you actually need it. In your deck, with only 6 Magics, you're going to
have to hope like hell you've gotten a second one in hand if someone
breaks that Bowl. As far as the Troublemaker goes, just contest it.
Let your prey be bled during his untap for the rest of his (short) game
while you Elder Impersonate your way past the Bowl.
>> He says stealth bleed cannot win because of the Bowl.
>>
>> I say a stealth bleed deck that packs 2x AT and some Elder Impersonation
>> has nothing to fear from the Bowl. As someone else has pointed out,
>> Maris Streck didn't make the !Malks worthless; the Bowl isn't anywhere
>> near as good as she is.
>
>Why Maris Streck should make the !Malks wothless? And why do you
>compare her to the Bowl?
Maris Streck: Malkavian, Group 3, Capacity 9, ani dem dom AUS OBF
Camarilla Malkavian Justicar: Maris can burn a blood to give a blocking
minion +1 intercept. She can take a +1 stealth action to allow you to
look at and rearrange the top 5 cards of your library.
You do know that Maris can burn all 9 blood on a single action to give
+9 intercept, right?
>> I say the Bowl isn't even CLOSE to broken. A stealth bleed deck that
>> can't get past a single vampire with +2 intercept is going to have a lot
>> more trouble with the Toreador Prince decks that throw out 2nd
>> Traditions all over and still have Auspex backing them -- that aren't
>> using the Bowl and never would.
>
>Toreador Princes WILL use the Bowl immediately, as soon as they will
>found a way to fetch it and equip it without being blocked. Toreador
>Grand Ball and Vast Wealth may help them. Why don't you see that the
>Bowl doesn't compete with Second Traditions, but makes a good combo
>with them? Untap and block with +3 intercept (possible +4) for one
>permanent card and one transient - who needs "+1 intercept" cards
>anymore?
"Elder Impersonation, your block fails."
"Seduction on the guy with the Bowl."
Why can't you see that stacking up tons of intercept on a single vampire
is a recipe for Getting Ousted?
salem
<nos...@no.spam.dot.com> scrawled:
>
>"Hollowboy" <icantbelievehollow...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>message news:614f2a39.04120...@posting.google.com...
>>> >> Orc of Ulain
>>> >> Unique equipment
>>> >> The ALLY with this equipment cannot be targeted by D-actions that
>>> >> require aus, chi, dom, pre, ser. Reactions that require any of those
>>> >> disc. cost an add. blood while this ally is acting.
>>> >
>>> > Well, too cornercase.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't even call it cornercase. It _might_ be a good extreme card
>>> for ally-based decks if it weren't unique, but it is. And it's no good
>>> for protecting a single valuable ally because you're not likely to draw
>>> both near enough to each other in any given game to likely make much
>>> impact with it. Someone explain why I would ever use this!
>>>
>> Hmm... I have a presence hords, with cheap Bruhaj and Ventrue. Defence
>> is deflection, intercept loacations and cheap Bruhaj allies with
>> concealed weapon + Saturday Night Special + Dragon's Breath rounds.
>> The offence is swarm bleed, and swarm rush via Memories of Mortality +
>> Haven Uncovered.
>>
>> Now I will have the extra option of getting an Orc-wearing Political
>> Ally to bleed unblockably, and un-Deflectably.
>
>Ah, what makes you think the block is undeflecable? That part I don't
>get.
well, the deflections will cost an extra blood, at least. and it's
still un-redirectable.
>In any case, I still refer to my original premise: how many Political
>Allies and how many Orcs will you put in this deck? If the number of
>both is large, you're wasting a lot of deck space to setup this one
>guy. If the number is small, you're not going to draw both around the
>same time very often - so you're going to constantly find yourself with
>Ally and no Orc (bad) or Orc and no Ally (even worse).
incorporate it as part of your strategy, rather than base everything
on it?
some other minion can always get the Orc (even a vampire) if you don't
have the 'good' ally out (although you might have a mix of good
allies), and then the good ally can just go get it off them when it's
out.
>> The same kinda thing applies with a Settite / Shambler deck, and that
>> usually-crap mummy who bleeds for 2. Or Tremere / !Tremere ally decks,
>> and Thadius Zho.
>
>And my same kinda answer applies to it as well.
>
>I suppose you can put throw in the Orc in hopes you'll draw it soon
>before or soon after the "special" ally and use it on a "crap" ally
>if you don't. Doesn't seem worthwhile for that case to me. And how
put 1 orc, 1 true faith (in a mortal allies deck, at least. hunters or
what not), 1 secure haven, 2 DI in your ally deck. resonably solid yet
also reasonably broadly useful defense against ally stealing. plus
maybe 2 of your own ally stealing cards as backup (entrancement + lure
or the seprent for setites, far mastery for trem/ventrue, restructure
for the malks/!malks with the hunters/mental patients)
>often will you draw Thadius to replace the Orc you just played on an
>Outcast Mage, hmmmmm?
well, every time. but then thadius squanders one turn getting the orc
off the outcast, possibly even untapping thanks to almiro and a
precognizant mobility.
salem
domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
salem
scrawled:
>In message <d6c82c73.04120...@posting.google.com>, Ector
><Ec...@mail.ru> writes:
>>The Bowl will definitely change the metagame: most
>>stealth decks will die,
>
>Rubbish.
>
>It's a unique piece of equipment, for a start.
>
>1) How many is the intercept deck packing?
>2) How many is the stealth deck packing, to foil it?
3) How badly will this intercept deck die when decks other than
"stealth and X" sit next to it? Isn't your (Ector's) playgroup full of
horridly violent rush decks or something? and if the Polaris Coach was
going to make your !malk a target, the Bowl is going to make Carna
just as big a target.
also, the 2 Bowl 6 Magics deck. say i draw a bowl and a magic. i'll
play the magic (to make sure i have the stealth to avoid those pesky
!malks playing a Tele Misdir to block my bowl equip), get a bowl
and....either play the rest of the game with a 6-card hand _just
incase_ someone burns the bowl i have in play, or i'll discard it.
then those !malks play their anarch trouble maker in their master
phase, sit for a turn (or bleed their grand prey a bit, as a warm-up),
and then the turn afterward burn the bowl and oust you. now that i
think about it, who cares if they have a 2nd bowl? if they're relying
on it, and it's gone for a turn, they're unlikely to get another
turn...
gustavo iglesias
I do play a lucas halton deck, and it is funny, and relatively
effective. But kiss of ra ultimatelly destroy it, as do seduction or
elder impersonation.
Gregory Stuart Pettigrew
> > > Action
> > > 1 pool
> > > +1 stealth
> > > D Put this card on a titled vampire. The vampire's title is worth 1
> > > less vote during refer., and he or she getzs -1 stealth when attempt.
> > > polit. actions. This vampire's cap. is reduced by 1 (not going below 1
> > > blah). A vamp. may have only 1 Rastacourere.
> >
> > Dislike. Arika OBF vote is already way more powerful than Sir Walter
> > Nash Law Firm, and this card hurts Nash way more than it hurts Arika.
>
> It also makes Anson Golconda-proof, which might slow down the Anson
> Minion Tap/Golconda bloat engine that is so popular.. Still. The -1
> stealth on votes is I think more important.
>
Finally, we can get those pesky Primogen to -2 votes.