Genevieve vote?
Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com
sub-ref?
T
LSJ
> Can she use her 'one additional vote during pol act' during the prisci
> sub-ref?
No.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com
wrote:
>Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com wrote:
>> Can she use her 'one additional vote during pol act' during the prisci
>> sub-ref?
>
>No.
>
Why not? Gratian can, and the sub-ref is still part of any pol
action.
T
reyda
<Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3d2b96e9.133553936@news...
1- because Grationa's card text actually says "one additional vote in the
prisci sub referendum" while Genevieve's text just says "one additional
vote". Is it so difficult to understand plain english ?? =D
LSJ
> >> Can she use her 'one additional vote during pol act' during the prisci
> >> sub-ref?
> >
> >No.
>
> Why not? Gratian can, and the sub-ref is still part of any pol
> action.
Card text and [6.3.3]
Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com
wrote:
>Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com wrote:
>> On Mon, 08 Jul 2002 15:36:58 -0400, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com>
>> >Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com wrote:
>> >> Can she use her 'one additional vote during pol act' during the prisci
>> >> sub-ref?
>> >
>> >No.
>>
>> Why not? Gratian can, and the sub-ref is still part of any pol
>> action.
>
>Card text and [6.3.3]
>
"During a referendum, the prisci block of three votes is cast "for" or
"against" the referendum according to the prisci sub-referendum. Each
ready priscus provides one vote for this sub-referendum, and no other
votes may be used in this sub-referendum. Each vote is either "for" or
"against" the main referendum."
I take it then that you are quoting 633 because of the above text
restricting a priscus to one vote in the sub ref? but cards over-rule
rules text according to the golden rule, and Genevieve gets an
additional vote in any pol action, so therefore she should be able to
use that +1 vote in the sub ref.
The only argument against this would probably be based in 632, that
cards referring to a political act are in fact referring to the
referendum. In which case Genevieve would be expressly restricted
from getting the additional during the sub-ref. Therefore her text
should be erratted.
In either case, you need to support your answers more than you did
above.
T
James Coupe
writes:
>I take it then that you are quoting 633 because of the above text
>restricting a priscus to one vote in the sub ref? but cards over-rule
>rules text according to the golden rule, and Genevieve gets an
>additional vote in any pol action, so therefore she should be able to
>use that +1 vote in the sub ref.
No.
*Only* votes marked as specifically being usable during the Prisci sub-
referendum are allowable in the sub-referendum. These, currently, are
Prisci titles and Gratiano's text.
A Priscus with a Legendary vampire does not get to cast the Legendary
Vampire votes during the Prisci sub-referendum. Similarly, Awe,
Bewitching Oration, Lyndhurst Estate and so on.
Genevieve has one additional vote. This is not marked as being a Prisci
sub-referendum vote, so she can only use it in the main referendum,
because it does not "break the rules". It functions as a usual vote,
cast like the votes found on any other vampire.
This is why Gratiano is worded in the way that he is - so that he can
cast it during the Prisci sub-referendum. Without that text, he
wouldn't be able to.
--
James Coupe
PGP 0x5D623D5D I am woman. Here, me raw.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2
13D7E668C3695D623D5D
LSJ
>
> On Tue, 09 Jul 2002 08:23:11 -0400, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com wrote:
> >> On Mon, 08 Jul 2002 15:36:58 -0400, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com>
> >> >Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com wrote:
> >> >> Can she use her 'one additional vote during pol act' during the prisci
> >> >> sub-ref?
> >> >
> >> >No.
> >>
> >> Why not? Gratian can, and the sub-ref is still part of any pol
> >> action.
> >
> >Card text and [6.3.3]
> >
>
> "During a referendum, the prisci block of three votes is cast "for" or
> "against" the referendum according to the prisci sub-referendum. Each
> ready priscus provides one vote for this sub-referendum, and no other
> votes may be used in this sub-referendum. Each vote is either "for" or
> "against" the main referendum."
>
> I take it then that you are quoting 633 because of the above text
> restricting a priscus to one vote in the sub ref? but cards over-rule
> rules text according to the golden rule, and Genevieve gets an
> additional vote in any pol action, so therefore she should be able to
> use that +1 vote in the sub ref.
Rule (that you quote above):
"no other votes may be used in this sub-referendum"
Card text on Gen. that overrides this rule: none.
Card text on Gen. that allow her to cast 1 vote in the main referendum
(whereas he title only grants her a vote in the PSR): clear.
> The only argument against this would probably be based in 632, that
> cards referring to a political act are in fact referring to the
> referendum. In which case Genevieve would be expressly restricted
> from getting the additional during the sub-ref. Therefore her text
> should be erratted.
She gets a vote. Since that vote cannot be cast in the sub-referendum,
by the rule cited, there's nothing else to say.
> In either case, you need to support your answers more than you did
> above.
Not true. It is clear, your unrelenting claims of murkiness in
all things notwithstanding.
Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com
I'm only continuing this as an academic discussion;
>
>Rule (that you quote above):
>"no other votes may be used in this sub-referendum"
A sub ref is part of a political action. The golden rule allows cards
to overrule rules text.
>
>Card text on Gen. that overrides this rule: none.
>
Gen gets 1 additional during a political action. As per above, this
overurles the restiction on the sub ref.
That's how I see it anyways. Of course if all 'political action' text
on a card were erratted to 'main referendum' as the 632 implies, then
she can't. But until that happens...this interpretation contrary to
what you have told me here will happen.
Ultimately, Im just tyring to point out an ambiguous situation here.
T
LSJ
> On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 00:00:06 GMT, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> I'm only continuing this as an academic discussion;
If only that were true.
> >Rule (that you quote above):
> >"no other votes may be used in this sub-referendum"
>
> A sub ref is part of a political action. The golden rule allows cards
> to overrule rules text.
It is part of a political action. And part of the minion phase.
And part of the referendum. And part of the player's turn.
Of course, all of this has nothing to do with overriding the
restriction on which votes can be cast in the sub-referendum.
The golden rule does indeed allow card text to override rules
text. But, since nothing on Genevieve's card text overrides
the rule that only the Prisci gets 1 vote in the sub-referendum
and only those votes can be used in the sub-referendum, the
vote Genevieve gains in the main referendum from her special
ability cannot be cast in the sub-referendum.
> >Card text on Gen. that overrides this rule: none.
>
> Gen gets 1 additional during a political action. As per above, this
> overurles the restiction on the sub ref.
Not in the slightest.
There is no support for that flawed statement.
She gets 1 additional vote during a political action (card text).
That vote cannot be cast in the sub-referendum (rules, since nothing
has overridden them).
She can cast it in the main referendum (or not at all).
> That's how I see it anyways. Of course if all 'political action' text
> on a card were erratted to 'main referendum' as the 632 implies, then
> she can't. But until that happens...this interpretation contrary to
> what you have told me here will happen.
>
> Ultimately, Im just tyring to point out an ambiguous situation here.
And failing, given the obviousness of the situation.
Unless it is your assertion that the votes from Surprise Influence,
Power Structure, Regent, Ventrue Directorate Assembly, Stefano Giovanni,
Legacy of Pander, and the Mausoleum Venice can be used in the Prisci
sub-referendum (despite the rule that clearly states otherwise).
Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com
wrote:
>The golden rule does indeed allow card text to override rules
>text. But, since nothing on Genevieve's card text overrides
>the rule that only the Prisci gets 1 vote in the sub-referendum
>and only those votes can be used in the sub-referendum, the
>vote Genevieve gains in the main referendum from her special
>ability cannot be cast in the sub-referendum.
>
That's the best, most specefic explanation yet. I'm sure you felt
that you already explained that, but Gen's text is so unique it caused
me to question this area.
>
>Unless it is your assertion that the votes from Surprise Influence,
>Power Structure, Regent, Ventrue Directorate Assembly, Stefano Giovanni,
>Legacy of Pander, and the Mausoleum Venice can be used in the Prisci
>sub-referendum (despite the rule that clearly states otherwise).
I think those are all tap/pay blood/play card effects. Except for the
Regents extra vote. So no, you couldnt *play* them for a vote. Gen's
vote is automatically in effect during the whole political action, and
thus I thought there might be a loophole in the rules.
Ok so I pushed the envelope a bit. *shrug*
T
James Coupe
writes:
>I'm sure you felt
>that you already explained that, but Gen's text is so unique it caused
>me to question this area.
Her text is only specific to avoid her being (potentially) gifted a
second title. (Which isn't possible.) This is why she isn't worded
akin to Regina Giovanni.
Votes that don't *specifically* say "May be used in the Prisci sub-
referendum" cannot be used.