[Black Hand Spoilers]
salem
Unique master.
Put this card in play. During your untap phse, you may tap this card
and discard two copies of the same card from your hand to gain 1 pool.
Draw back up to your hand size afterward.
Information Network - R
Requires Nosferatu Antitribu
1 pool
Unique master.
Tap to give a Nosferatu antitribu you control +1 intercept.
Flavour:
Knowledge is of two kinds: we know a subject ourselves, or we know
where we can find information upon it.
-Samuel Johnson, in James Boswell's The Life of Samuel Johnson, LL.D.
Next!
salem
domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm
JH
from our local pre-release.
Doctor Streck
Brujah!, 8 cap
CEL OBF PRE aus pot
Sabbat: When Streck bleeds successfully, the target Metuselah
discards one card at random from his or her hand.
(!Toreadors with obfuscate or !Malkavians with presence anyone?
Or why not both?)
Henry Taylor
Brujah!, 6 cap
POT cel pre pro
Sabbat: After an action, you may move a combat card Henry played
during that action from your ash heap to the to of your library.
(Let's reuse that Disarm after preventing with Flesh of Marble.)
Miguel Santo Domingo
Brujah!, 7 cap
POT PRE cel for
Sabbat: Once each _action_, Miguel can burn 1 blood to give any
other Sabbat vampire you control +1 bleed for the current action.
(Sabbat weenie presence bleed anyone?)
Ignazio Giovanni
Giovanni, 9 cap
DOM FOR NEC POT obf
Independent: Ignazio can enter combat with a vampire of capacity less
than 7 controlled by your predator or prey as a (D) action. +1 strength.
(New friend of Lazverinus.)
Charice Fontaigne
!Ventrue, 6 cap
AUS DOM for pot
Sabbat.
(Goes also well with Lazverinus.)
Owain Evans, The Wanderer
!Ventrue, 8 cap
AUS DOM FOR cel pre
Sabbat: During any Metuselah's untap phase if Owain is ready, you may move
a blood from the blood bank to a vampire that Metuselah controls.
(Extra hunting ground anyone?)
Blackhorse Tanner
!Ventrue, 7 cap
AUS DOM FOR
Sabbat, Black Hand: Once each turn, when you draw a card from your library,
you may place that card on the bottom of your library and draw a new card.
(Card recycling with class, smallest !Ventrue with all clans at superior,
and Black Hand to make it almost too good to be true.)
Katherine Stoddard
!Ventrue, 4 cap
dom for
Sabbat, Black Hand: Once during your turn, if Katherine is ready, you may
discard a card that requires Auspex from your hand. Draw back up to your
hand size afterward.
(A bit more recycling.)
Dominique
!Ventrue, 7 cap
AUS FOR ani dom vic
Advanced, Sabbat: During your untap phase, you may burn a location you
control to gain X pool, where X is the cost of that location.
[]] Independent Anarch Baron of Paris.
(Hello Mister Villoin. Could you please get out of here. I'm the boss now.)
and last but not least
Rodolfo
!Malkavian, 8 cap
AUS DEM OBF pro
Sabbat bishop: +1 bleed.
(As the !Malks weren't good enough bleeders yet. I love this guy.)
Next part: Master cards.
JH
Creepshow
Master: archetype, Trifle.
Put this card on a Sabbat vampire you control. Once per turn, when a
minion opposing this vampire in combat dodges or ends combat as a
strike, this vampire gains 1 blood from the blood bank. A vampire
can have only one archetype.
Flavor:
Beware
Of Entrance to a quarrel; but being in,
Bear't that the opposed may beware of thee.
Shakespeare, Hamlet, act 1, scene 3
Sociopath
Master: archetype.
Put this card on a sabbat vampire you control. Once per turn, when this
vampire remains ready and burns a minion in combat or sends a vampire
to torpor in combat, he or she gains 1 blood from the blood bank. A
vampire can have only one archetype.
Flavor:
When he is best, he is little worse than a man,
and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice, act 1, scene 2
Guru
Master: archetype
Put this card on a Sabbat vampire you control. Once per turn, when this
vampire calls a referendum and it passes, he or she gains 1 blood from
the blood bank. A vampire can have only one archetype.
And then there was something called 'Capitalist' that gave
the same 1 blood when successfully bleeding for 1 or more.
Wathctower: Four Ride Forth
1 pool, burn option
Master: watchtower.
Requires a ready Seraph
Put this card in play. During your discard phase, you may tap this card to
untap any ready Black Hand vampire. Burn this card if another watchtower
enters play.
Watchtower: Chosen Are Called had some nifty card recycling ability
(Fragment that cannot be stolen or something similar to effect). Didn't
see the Watchtower: Greatest Fall
Next: minion cards
JH
when I tried to get these. Nice threat factor.
Black Gloves
Equipment, 3 pool
Unique melee weapon.
Strength+1 aggravated damage each strike. Bearer takes 1 damage during
strike resolution when this weapon is used, but only once each combat.
Flavour:
We know more about war than we
know about peace, more about killing
than we know about living.
- Gen. Omar Bradley, 1948 speach
Gemini's Mirror
Combat, 1 blood
[obf] Strike: dodge with an optional maneuver.
[OBF] Only usable before range is determined. When resolving each
strike against this vampire, flip a coin. If it's tails, the strike
has no effect on this vampire. This lasts until heads is flipped or
combat ends. A vampire can play only one Gemini's Mirror at
superior each combat.
(Saw this being used twice. Once I dodged a Lid thrown by a Nosferatu
another time a Nosferatu defeated the Tremere.)
Under the Skin
Action Modifier
Only usable during a referendum before votes are cast.
[aus] [pre] Choose a younger vampire. That vampire abstains from voting.
[AUS] [PRE] As above, and tap that vampire at the end of the action if
the referendum passes.
Flavour:
The brain may devise laws for the blood, but
a hot tempre leaps o'er a cold decree.
- Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice, act 1, scene 2
(What's there left to stop Toreador from voting?)
Random Patterns
Action Modifier/Reaction
[aus] [dem] +1 intercept.
[AUS] [DEM] Only usable when a minion is attempting to block this acting
vampire. The blocking minion gets -1 intercept.
Flavour:
Knowledge is more than equivalent to force.
- Samuel Johnson, Rasselas
(Nice double use card for modern Malkavians.)
Babble
Reaction
[dem] Give another ready minion +1 intercept.
[DEM] Tap this vampire to untap another ready minion. Not usable by a
blocking minion.
Flavour:
Half of what he said meant something else, and
the other half didn't mean anything at all.
- Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
(Escape Mental Patient blocks the hunt and strikes for 2 aggravated after
you decide your strike to see if you dodge.)
Quicken Sight
Reaction
[aus] [cel] +1 intercept, with an optional meneuver in the resulting
combat if this vampire successfully blocks.
[AUS] [CEL] As above, but with +2 intercept.
Flavour:
So scented the grim Feature, and upturn'd
His nostril wide into the murky air,
Sagacious of his quarry from so far.
- John Milton, Paradise Lost
(Enhanced Senses with maneuver for the Toreador. Very useful.)
Seraph
Political Card - Worth 1 Vote. Called by any Black Hand vampire at +1 stealth.
Choose a non-Seraph Black Hand vampire with a capacity above 5. If this
referendum is successful, put this card on the chosen vampire. That Black
Hand vampire gainst 2 blood and is a Seraph. Non-Sabbat vampires cannot
vote in this referendum.
(Feared the possibility of not being able to make new Seraphi. This
looks like a proper way.)
Loyalist
Reaction, !Ventrue
Only usable during a referendum. Usable by a _tapped_ vampire.
This vampire gains 3 votes against the referendum. If the acting
vampire is Sabbat and the referendum fails, move up to 2 blood
from the acting vampire to this vampire.
Flavour:
Old-fashioned Loyalists don't last all that long, even
when they've got your potential for power.
- Andrew Emory, Lasombra bishop
(As the !Ventrue would need something to make even a more effective
vote lock. Might even use this one.)
Marc Gabriele
> Loyalist
> Reaction, !Ventrue
> Only usable during a referendum. Usable by a _tapped_ vampire.
> This vampire gains 3 votes against the referendum. If the acting
> vampire is Sabbat and the referendum fails, move up to 2 blood
> from the acting vampire to this vampire.
So, presumably these votes can still be canceled by the usual
means, but can they be changed to votes in favor by, say, Kindred
Manipulation?
Marc G.
LSJ
No. If the vampire's votes are changed to be in favor, those three
votes will be silenced (until the vampire's disposition is changed
back).
The three votes can only be cast against the referendum.
A vampire who is already voting in favor of a referendum cannot play
Loyalist to change his position to one of opposition to the referendum.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Timlagor
> Gloves that I learned to love. Although my prey's prey blocked me once
I'm surprised you didn't put this one:
(from memory)
Zillah's Tears
Action
Put this card on the acting vampire. This vampire gains one blood. This
vampire may burn this card at any time after the end of this turn to
untap.
I liked the look of the 1R agg unpreventable (long only) CHI card too.
salem
>Henry Taylor
>Brujah!, 6 cap
>POT cel pre pro
>Sabbat: After an action, you may move a combat card Henry played
>during that action from your ash heap to the to of your library.
>(Let's reuse that Disarm after preventing with Flesh of Marble.)
Presumably the disarm would not be 'in your ash heap', rather it would
be on the opposing minion? but still, it's a nice ability.
>Dominique
>!Ventrue, 7 cap
>AUS FOR ani dom vic
>Advanced, Sabbat: During your untap phase, you may burn a location you
>control to gain X pool, where X is the cost of that location.
>[]] Independent Anarch Baron of Paris.
>(Hello Mister Villoin. Could you please get out of here. I'm the boss now.)
Also, her picture is HOT.
Contrast with Sela^, who's a hag.
Gorrath
thx
Gorrath
> Marc Gabriele wrote:
> > On 15 Nov 2003, JH wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Loyalist
> >>Reaction, !Ventrue
> >>Only usable during a referendum. Usable by a _tapped_ vampire.
> >>This vampire gains 3 votes against the referendum. If the acting
> >>vampire is Sabbat and the referendum fails, move up to 2 blood
> >>from the acting vampire to this vampire.
> >
> >
> > So, presumably these votes can still be canceled by the usual
> > means, but can they be changed to votes in favor by, say, Kindred
> > Manipulation?
>
> No. If the vampire's votes are changed to be in favor, those three
> votes will be silenced (until the vampire's disposition is changed
> back).
>
> The three votes can only be cast against the referendum.
>
> A vampire who is already voting in favor of a referendum cannot play
> Loyalist to change his position to one of opposition to the referendum.
The Lasombra
wrote:
>could you tell us which rares are in the other starters?
Yes.
But then I'd have to kill you.
Wait until the pre-release weekend is over, and you will see all of
the starters probably sometime Monday night.
Carpe noctem.
Lasombra
Eric Simon
Sire's Index Finger
Unique Equipment
The vampire with this equipment is immune to frenzy cards (including
Brujah Frenzy, Drawing Out the Beast, Frenzy, Rotschreck and Terror
Frenzy).
Path of Death and the Soul
Unique Master
Put this card in play. When a minion controlled by another Methusaleh
is burned, you may tap this card to search your library (shuffle
afterward), ash heap or hand for a Master: Discipline card. Move 1
blood from the blood bank and that card to a ready vampire you
control.
As far as vamps go, Advanced Jessica (8-cap) is quite good. Unmerged,
she's still a bishop and gets +1 stealth on political actions, and
merged she becomes Archbishop of Brussels.
And Advanced Dominique is wearing one of the most revealing dresses in
the game, but there's a card that's even more revealing than that
(which doesn't even involve a dress). I forget the name, since it's
not one I got myself, but a new master for the !Gangrel (Talons of the
Dead, maybe?) has some serious eyebrow-raising potential.
Eric Simon
Prince of Chicago
John Flournoy
Yazid Tamari
Assamite, 8 cap
ani dom obf CEL QUI
Sabbat Black Hand Seraph: +1 Bleed. The Blood curse does not affect Yazid.
Wah Chun-Yen
Brujah Antitrubu, 5 cap
cel dom pre POT
Sabbat Black Hand
Sebastian Goulet
Gangrel Antitribu, 8 cap
cel pre pro DOM OBF
Advanced, Sabbat: Sebastian gets +1 stealth when employing a retainer or
recruiting an ally.
Merge: He can steal a retainer or ally as a +1 stealth (D) action
Olga Triminov
Pander, 1 cap
vic
Sabbat: Any Black Hand vampire can steal Olga for his or her controller as a
(D) action that costs 1 pool.
Midget
Malkavian Antitribu, 3 cap
obf pre DEM
Sabbat: Infernal. Animal retainers lose their abilities while Midget is
acting or is in combat.
Zip
Ravnos, 2 cap
ani
Sabbat.
Ezekiel, Lord of Montreal
Follower of Set, 6 cap
obf pot PRE SER
Sabbat: Black Hand.
Ingram Frizer
Nosferatu Antitribu, 6 cap
ani pot AUS OBF
Sabbat: Black Hand.
Kazimir Savostin
Tzimisce, 7 cap
ani pot AUS VIC
Sabbat: Black Hand Seraph: When Kazimir blocks, he gets one optional press
in the resulting combat.
Tarbaby Jack
Nosferatu Antitribu, 8 cap
dom ser ANI OBF POT
Sabbat: Black Hand: If Tarbaby is ready, you get one extra transfer during
your influence phase.
Sela
Brujah Antitribu, 7 cap
cel obt POT PRE
Advanced, Sabbat Archbishop of Rome: Sela gets +1 steal on (D) actions
directed at a Methuselah who controls a ready bishop.
Venere Carboni
Toreador Antitribu, 8 cap
ani AUS CEL PRE
Sabbat priscus: If Venere is in torpor during your untap phase, he may burn
1 blood to move to your ready region.
Sabrina
Toreador Antitribu, 4 cap
aus cel pre
Sabbat.
Jessica
Toreador Antitribu, 8 cap
AUS CEL OBF PRE
Advanced, Sabbat bishop: Jessica gets +1 stealth on political actions.
Merge: Archbishop of Brussels.
-------------------------------
Tenebrous Form
Action Modifier
1 blood
[obt]: +1 stealth
[OBT]: As above, and minions without Obtenebration must pay 1 blood to
attempt to block.
Mayaparisataya
Combat card
2 blood
[chi]: Weapons possessed by the opposing minion inflict no damage on this
vampire for the duration of combat.
[CHI]: Strike: 1R aggravated damage. This damage cannot be prevented. Only
usable at long range.
Animal Magnetism
Action Modifier
Only usable during a referendum.
[ani][obf]: This vampire gains 1 vote.
[ANI][OBF]: This vampire gains 3 votes.
Dominion
Master.
Put this card on a Black Hand vampire. Vampires must burn 1 blood to attempt
to block this Black Hand vampire. A vampire can have only one Dominion.
Communal Haven: Cathedral
Master: location
1 pool
You may tap this card during your master phase to transfer equipment and/or
move blood between any two ready Sabbat vampires you control.
Mesmerize
Action
+1 Stealth action.
[dom]: (D) Steal equipment from an ally.
[DOM]: (D) Steal equipment from a younger vampire.
Alpha Glint
Combat Card
1 blood
Not usable in combat with an ally or an older vampire.
[ani][for]: Strike: combat ends.
[ANI]{FOR]: Only usable before range is determined. Combat ends.
Rooftop Shadow
Reaction
1 blood
[cel]: +1 intercept. Not usable if the acting minion has Celerity.
[CEL]: +1 intercept. Not usable if the acting minion has superior Celerity.
Council of Seraphim
Action Modifier
Burn Option. Requires a Seraph.
Only usable when a minion is attempting to block. If a Sabbat vampire is
attempting to block, that block attempt fails (do not tap that vampire.)
That vampire cannot block this action. Otherwise, the blocking minion
gets -1 intercept.
Deploy the Hand
Political Action
Political card - worth 1 vote. Called by any archbishop or cardinal at +1
stealth.
Choose one or more Methuselahs who do not have a target counter. Successful
referendum means each chosen Methuselah gets a target counter. During his or
her untap phase, a Methuselah with a target counter chooses one of his or
her ready minions, who takes 2 unpreventable damage. A Methuselah may burn
the Edge to burn his or her target counter.
Remover
Master.
Put this card on a Black Hand vampire. This vampire can tap any card
(including a minion) as a +1 stealth (D) action. A vampire can only have one
Remover.
Legwork
Reaction
1 blood.
Do not replace until your next untap phase.
+1 intercept. Not usable by a vampire with more than 0 intercept.
Weeping Stone
Master: unique location
3 pool
+1 hand size. During your untap phase, a ready Black Hand vampire you
control gains 1 blood. Any Assamite can burn this card as a (D) action that
costs 1 pool.
WMRH Talk Radio
Master: unique location
1 pool
Tap to give any minion +1 intercept. If that minion doesn't successfully
block the action, burn 1 pool after the action resolves.
Iron Glare
Action Modifier
[pot][pre]: Only usable during a referendum. This vampire gains 2 votes.
[POT][PRE]: +2 bleed. After playing this card, you cannot play another
action modifier to further increase the bleed for this action.
------------------
-John Flournoy
The Fanboy
> (Hello Mister Villoin. Could you please get out of here. I'm the boss now.)
Wow. I wasn't expecting any Barons in this set.
Fanboy
The Fanboy
>Ravnos, 2 cap
>ani
>Sabbat
*sighs* Token Ravnos.
Mayaparasatya looks cool, though. Would've imagined it being another
action card, though, considering in tabletop it's just another name
for the Reality power.
Fanboy
Timlagor
> not one I got myself, but a new master for the !Gangrel (Talons of the
> Dead, maybe?) has some serious eyebrow-raising potential.
Talons of the dead has a nude woman (vampire) with red hair
sitting/squatting with her back to a tree and blood running from her
mouth (open) over her breasts. You can see her right breast (left side
is to us and her arm covers that one) which is mostly covered in blood.
She is very pale and has (bloody) taloned hands.
(Unique master; 2 pool; !Gangrel; put on a !gang to give agg hands and
make D actions cost 1 blood extra)
Colin McGuigan
> Sire's Index Finger
> Unique Equipment
> The vampire with this equipment is immune to frenzy cards (including
> Brujah Frenzy, Drawing Out the Beast, Frenzy, Rotschreck and Terror
> Frenzy).
Thank god DotB now has a counter.
--Colin McGuigan
AL
> Some more spoilers:
snip
Some small to midcap Lasobras: not too interesting, but give nice
options to smaller crypt:
Hester Reed
Lasombra, 3 cap
obt pot
Sabbat
Tabitha Fisk
Lasombra, 4 cap
obt pot pro
Sabbat: During your untap phase, an archbishop you control may move 1
blood to Tabitha.
Banjoko
Lasombra, 5 cap
DOM obt pot
Sabbat: Black Hand Seraph.
Ooh, a 5 cap Lasombra with all in-clan disciplines :)
and a fattie:
Nahir
Lasombra, 10 cap
ANI DOM OBT POT tha
Sabbat: ...can use a master phase and 1 pool to gain +1 hand size, +1
bleed
Too bad that she is so big, ANI/OBT would have been nice on a smaller
minion.
Library:
Last Stand
Unique Master, 6 (!) pool:
Put this card in play. When any other Methuselah is ousted, the
current turn ends, and this card is burned. The predator of the ousted
Methuselah (if more than one was ousted, go clockwise from the left of
the Methuselah whose turn just ended) takes the next turn.
Hmmm...pay 6 pool to make an overextended attack. Risky, but may be
worth the cost.
Thin-Blooded Seer
Action, Requires a ready, non-sterile vampire of capacity less than 3.
Put this card into play: it becomes a 1 capacity vampire. This vampire
is clanless and sterile. This vampire is not considered unique, must
hunt this turn and is the same sect as the acting vampire. Cards that
cost blood cost this vampire twice as much blood to play. During your
untap phase, you may tap this vampire to look at the top two cards of
any Methuselah's library.
A 1 capacity vampire can easily give unlife to this little
jewel...which is not unique. Nice addition to any weenie deck, I
think.
-Antero
Timlagor
> and a fattie:
> Nahir
> Lasombra, 10 cap
> ANI DOM OBT POT tha
> Sabbat: ...can use a master phase and 1 pool to gain +1 hand size, +1
> bleed
> Too bad that she is so big, ANI/OBT would have been nice on a smaller
> minion.
Unless I'm ver much mistaken this uses research counters which don't go
away and so can extend you hand size indefininately.
Metropolis
Mayaparasita
I guess I would be asking to much to give the Assamites a card that
could do unpreventable agg damage at range...
M.
Patrick van der Reest
the final. Jeff Haar played amasterful game, and his cool style and
careful demeanor brought him victory.
Anyway, here are some nice or odd cards. I won't post all I saw or
got, but these are at least noteworthy, I think:
Typhonic Beast
Combat card, 1 blood
Only usable before range is determined
ser: For the remainder of cmbat, this vampire gets +1 strength
pot ser: as above, and this vampire can prevent 1 dmg each round
POT SER: as pot ser, and this vampire gets and optional press this
round.
Sibyl's Tongue
Action card, requires !Malk
+1 stealth action
This action costs X blood, where X is the number of Sybil's Tongues in
your ash heap. Choose a card by name. Search your library for a copy
of that card, show it to all players, and move it to your hand.
Discard down to your hand size and shuffle your library afterwards.
Path of Evil Revelations
Unique Master card (note: no cost)
Put this card in play. During your master phase, you may burn 1 pool
to untap all infernal minions you control. Any minion may burn this
card as a (d) action; if that minion is a vampire, he or she takes one
damage (damage not preventable) when this card is burned.
(some diety, or at least LSJ, must love the Baali today)
Vox Senis
Unique Master
Put this card in play. Each Methuselah gets 1 additional vote during
each referendum. Alternatively, you may discard this card from your
hand as an out-of-turn master to gain 3 votes in that referendum.
(I liked this lots. Solid alternative to Delaying Tactics, if there
are any table votes).
Circumspect Revelation
Action modifier
Requires a Black Hand vampire. Only usable when a Sabbat vampire
attempts to block.
The block attempt fails, and that Sabbat vampire cannot attempt to
block this action again.
(Cornercase in most games, but in this tournament very strong indeed).
Iron Glare
Action modifier
pot pre: Only usable during a referendum. THis vampire gains 2 votes.
POT PRE: +2 bleed. After playing this carf, you cannot play another
action modifier to further increase the bleed for this action.
(My Cailean loved this card. I was drafting for a !Brujah/!Nossie deck
as soon I saw this card)
Reunion Kamut
Action card
Requires a Black Hand vampire
+1 stealth action.
Move 2 blood from the blood bank to a Black Hand vampire in your
uncontrolled region.
(with the Black Hand sect starting at 2-cap, this is a power card,
easily as good as the Fourth Tradition)
Sela (advanced)
!Brujah, 7 capacity
cel obt POT PRE
Archbishop of Rome
Sela gets +1 stealth on (d) actions directed at a Methuselah who
controls a ready bishop. (No merged ability)
Mariano Pomposa
!Brujah, 4 capacity
aus cel pot
Black Hand
Tock
!Nosferatu, 4 capacity
obf pot pre
Regards,
Patrick
Columbus, OH
AL
Yes it is :) only that it will cost pool, and if one needs to grow
hand size to, say, 10, permanently, the deck is not flowing well...
-Antero
Janne Hägglund
> Path of Death and the Soul
> Unique Master
> Put this card in play. When a minion controlled by another Methusaleh
> is burned, you may tap this card to search your library (shuffle
> afterward), ash heap or hand for a Master: Discipline card. Move 1
> blood from the blood bank and that card to a ready vampire you
> control.
What happens if you have no legal targets for the discipline cards you
have? (All your available vamps have superior whatever.)
Do you just get the blood without the card, or will the blood fizzle also?
The wording seems to imply the latter.
--
hg@ It's better to open your mouth and appear stupid,
iki.fi than to hold it shut and keep thinking you know it all.
shawn stanley
>Sire's Index Finger
>Unique Equipment
>The vampire with this equipment is immune to frenzy cards (including
>Brujah Frenzy, Drawing Out the Beast, Frenzy, Rotschreck and Terror
>Frenzy).
Rotschreck is reprinted and doesn't mention that it is a frenzy card
and the list of frenzy cards is presumably not all inclusive. Now it
seems that the only thing that ties all these frenzy cards together
(apart from obviously being included as such on this card) is that in
the game world they are all abilities or suchlike that play on frenzy.
My question therefore is, does Out of Control also count or, should it
also count?
Timlagor
> My question therefore is, does Out of Control also count or, should it
> also count?
My money is on
It doesn't.
It should.
Timlagor
You certainly are! ;P
They might start winning then! (cel has much better maneuvers which is
not an inconsequential difference -not to mention the additional
strikes)
Well you can always use the EoH.
salem
on the bright side, i don't recall seeing the word 'ready' anywhere in
her card text...so if she's in torpor her research still helps. :)
salem
Reest) scrawled:
>Sela (advanced)
>!Brujah, 7 capacity
>cel obt POT PRE
>Archbishop of Rome
>
>Sela gets +1 stealth on (d) actions directed at a Methuselah who
>controls a ready bishop. (No merged ability)
note base Sela's ability:
If Sela becomes an archbishop, each ready bishop controlled by your
prey burns 1 blood.
So if you have the base version out, and then merge Sela^ onto her,
all your prey's ready bishops burn a blood! very cornercase, but at
least it synergises.
salem
Hägglund) scrawled:
>vol...@yahoo.com (Eric Simon) writes:
>
>> Path of Death and the Soul
>> Unique Master
>> Put this card in play. When a minion controlled by another Methusaleh
>> is burned, you may tap this card to search your library (shuffle
>> afterward), ash heap or hand for a Master: Discipline card. Move 1
>> blood from the blood bank and that card to a ready vampire you
>> control.
>
>
> What happens if you have no legal targets for the discipline cards you
>have? (All your available vamps have superior whatever.)
>
> Do you just get the blood without the card, or will the blood fizzle also?
>The wording seems to imply the latter.
previously on 'search' library effects, you have been allowed to fail
to find anything (either because it's not there, or you just choose to
not find it). I would assume that if you fail to find a skill card )or
a playable skill card) you'd still get the blood.
The Lasombra
Out of Control does not count.
At this point there is no card text to make it count, and only the SIF
card could make it so.
Carpe noctem.
Lasombra
LSJ
> vol...@yahoo.com (Eric Simon) writes:
>>Path of Death and the Soul
>>Unique Master
>>Put this card in play. When a minion controlled by another Methusaleh
>>is burned, you may tap this card to search your library (shuffle
>>afterward), ash heap or hand for a Master: Discipline card. Move 1
>>blood from the blood bank and that card to a ready vampire you
>>control.
>
> What happens if you have no legal targets for the discipline cards you
> have? (All your available vamps have superior whatever.)
>
> Do you just get the blood without the card, or will the blood fizzle also?
> The wording seems to imply the latter.
The wording effects the former. The latter would require something like
"Move that card to a ready vampire to move a blood from the blood bank to
that vampire".
Jamie The Seppo
> > > Lasombra, 10 cap
> > > ANI DOM OBT POT tha
> > > Sabbat: ...can use a master phase and 1 pool to gain +1 hand size, +1
> > > bleed
> > > Too bad that she is so big, ANI/OBT would have been nice on a smaller
> > > minion.
> >
> > Unless I'm ver much mistaken this uses research counters which don't go
> > away and so can extend you hand size indefininately.
>
> Yes it is :) only that it will cost pool, and if one needs to grow
> hand size to, say, 10, permanently, the deck is not flowing well...
>
> -Antero
uhhh, I'm thinking this is way better then you think. Sure, one
doesn't truely need a handsize of 12, but a bleed of +5?!?!
It's stoned-out Spiridonas on a high that never ends!
ohhhh, if only the thaum could have been Fortitude!!! Still a good
ol'
Nahir? Wasn't that the sire of Marcus Vitel?
Jamie
The Seppo
salem
scrawled:
except the 'quoted' text was in error. it's pay a pool to get a
research counter. +1 hand size per research counter. after all her
special text is also just a flat +1 bleed.
>Nahir? Wasn't that the sire of Marcus Vitel?
cool.
The Lasombra
>> > > Nahir
>> > > Lasombra, 10 cap
>> > > ANI DOM OBT POT tha
>> > > Sabbat: ...can use a master phase and 1 pool to gain +1 hand size, +1
>> > > bleed
>> > > Too bad that she is so big, ANI/OBT would have been nice on a smaller
>> > > minion.
>> > Unless I'm ver much mistaken this uses research counters which don't go
>> > away and so can extend you hand size indefininately.
>> Yes it is :) only that it will cost pool, and if one needs to grow
>> hand size to, say, 10, permanently, the deck is not flowing well...
>uhhh, I'm thinking this is way better then you think. Sure, one
>doesn't truely need a handsize of 12, but a bleed of +5?!?!
There is nothing in Nahir's card text to allow her bleed to increase.
Accurate and complete card text:
Nahir
ANI DOM OBT POT tha
10
Sabbat.
If Nahir is ready, you may use a master phase action to burn 1 pool to
put a research counter on her. Each research counter she has
increases your hand size by one. +1 bleed.
>It's stoned-out Spiridonas on a high that never ends!
>ohhhh, if only the thaum could have been Fortitude!!! Still a good
>ol'
That would have been some good crack.
Unfortunately, LSJ is the father of 2, and not likely to be doing
enough crack to design a vampire like that any time in the near future
(or the recent past).
>Nahir? Wasn't that the sire of Marcus Vitel?
No clue.
Morrison
>
> Nahir? Wasn't that the sire of Marcus Vitel?
>
> Jamie
> The Seppo
Nope. Vitel was sired by Sybil. If they made her I'd be impressed.
Not to mention the Black sisters.
shawn stanley
yeah, that's obviously the case at the moment, but I was really just
wondering whether Out of Control may have just been forgoteen about in
the design/ testing stages for SIF.
...
well really I just didn't want to have to change all my decks to take
Out of Control out ...
Gomi no Sensei
Mariano Pomposo
Brujah Antitribu
4 capacity
Group 3
aus cel pot
Sabbat Black Hand.
Miguel Santo Domingo
Brujah Antitribu
7 capacity
Group 3
cel for POT PRE
Sabbat: Once each action, Miguel can burn 1 blood to give any other Sabbat
vampire you control +1 bleed for the current action.
Maria Stone
Gangrel Antitribu
5 capacity
Group 3
cel FOR obf pro
Sabbat
Skryta Zyleta
Gangrel Antitribu
5 capacity
Group 3
CEL obf pot pro
Sabbat Black Hand.
Ignazio Giovanni
Giovanni
9 capacity
Group 3
DOM FOR NEC obf POT
Independent: Ignazio can enter combat with a vampire of capacity less than 7
controlled by your predator or prey as a (D) action. +1 strength.
Henri Lavenant
Lasombra
7 capacity
Group 3
DOM OBT pot qui
Sabbat. Black Hand: You have +1 hand size while Henri is in combat.
Yitzak
Toreador Antitribu
7 capacity
Group 3
AUS CEL pre THA
Sabbat: Yitzak may tap a younger vampire as a (D) action. If successful, that
vampire does not untap as normal during his or her next untap phase.
Rosa Martinez
Toreador Antitribu
9 capacity
Group 3
AUS CEL FOR PRE
Sabbat bishop: During your untap phase, if another ready vampire you control
is a regent, Rosa gains 1 blood. +1 bleed.
Ana Rita Montana
5 capacity
Group 3
aus dom obf VIC
Sabbat.
Katherine Stoddard
Ventrue Antitribu
4 capacity
Group 3
dom for
Sabbat. Black Hand: Once during your turn, if Katherine is ready, you may
discard a card that requires Auspex from your hand. Draw back up to your
hand size afterward.
Martial Ritus
Action
1 blood
+1 stealth action. Requires a Sabbat vampire. Put this card on a younger
Sabbat vampire and untap this acting vampire. The Sabbat vampire with this
card gets +1 strength. During your next untap phase, burn this card.
Zillah's Tears
Action
+1 stealth action. Requires a ready Sabbat vampire. Put this card on this
acting vampire and move 1 blood from the blood bank to this vampire. This
Sabbat vampire can burn this card any time after this turn ends to untap.
A vampire can have only one Zillah's Tears.
Stealth Ritus
Action Modifier
1 blood
Requires a ready Sabbat vampire. Only usable as the action is announced.
Choose another ready Sabbat vampire you control. The chosen vampire burns
1 blood, or this card has no effect. This action gets +1 stealth, even if
stealth is not yet needed.
Chill of Oblivion
Action
Necromancy
+1 stealth action.
[nec] Put this card on a ready vampire. vampire (sic) may burn this card in
combat to trat aggravated damage as normal for the remainder of combat. A
vampire can have only one Chill of Oblivion.
<NEC> As above, and this acting vampire untaps during your next discard phase.
Brick Laying
Action
Potence
[pot] (D) Burn a haven on an ally or younger vampire, or tap an ally or
younger vampire.
<POT> (D) As above, and inflict 1 damage on that minion.
Shape Mastery
Combat/Reaction
Protean
[pro] Cancel a combat card that requires Obtenebration, Protean, or
Vicissitude as it is played (no cost is paid). The opposing minion cannot
play that card again this action.
<PRO> As above, but cancel an action modifier that requires any of those
Disciplines.
Deed the Heart's Desire
Action Modifier
Quietus
1 blood
Only usable as the action is announced.
[qui] Choose a younger vampire. He or she cannot block this action.
<QUI> As above, and the chosen vampire cannot play reaction cards during
this action.
Corpse Balloon
Retainer
Vicissitude
Ghoul with 1 life.
[vic] If the minion with this retainer blocks a (D) action, he or she gets an
optional maneuver on the first round of the resulting combat.
<VIC> As above, and this minion gets +1 intercept against (D) actions.
gomi
--
Tenser, said the Tensor;
Tenser, said the Tensor;
Tension, apprehension, and dissension have begun.
the_capuchin
Fatima al-Faqadi loved that one.
The best DotB-counter possible; an *equipment*. It's kinda funny.
LSJ
>>>Sire's Index Finger
> The best DotB-counter possible; an *equipment*. It's kinda funny.
Fatima's special only retrieves weapons, not general equipment, mind you.
David Cherryholmes
> Fatima al-Faqadi loved that one.
> The best DotB-counter possible; an *equipment*. It's kinda funny.
I would still rate Ghoul Retainer as a better answer. The Finger might
look best at first glance, but the Ghoul provides:
A) protection against DotB
B) protection against IG
C) A 4 + 1 regular/agg package with the AR and Bow, which burns the crap
out of people for zero cards.
David Cherryholmes
Duke Radiology
P.E.T. Facility
(919) 684-7714
david.che...@duke.edu
Joshua Duffin
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
news:3FB67479...@white-wolf.com...
> Marc Gabriele wrote:
> > On 15 Nov 2003, JH wrote:
> >>Loyalist
> >>Reaction, !Ventrue
> >>Only usable during a referendum. Usable by a _tapped_ vampire.
> >>This vampire gains 3 votes against the referendum. If the acting
> >>vampire is Sabbat and the referendum fails, move up to 2 blood
> >>from the acting vampire to this vampire.
> > So, presumably these votes can still be canceled by the usual
> > means, but can they be changed to votes in favor by, say, Kindred
> > Manipulation?
>
> No. If the vampire's votes are changed to be in favor, those three
> votes will be silenced (until the vampire's disposition is changed
> back).
>
> The three votes can only be cast against the referendum.
>
> A vampire who is already voting in favor of a referendum cannot play
> Loyalist to change his position to one of opposition to the
referendum.
I don't think I understand this ruling (except for the last part, which
makes sense since 6.3.3 "Gaining Votes" says that all of the votes from
each given vampire [...] must be cast in agreement as a group).
If Lazverinus is calling a Political Stranglehold and another
Methuselah's Emerson Bridges votes against it, Emerson has 2 votes
against the referendum. Yet, Lazverinus can play Kindred Manipulation
("Only usable during a referendum.
Change the votes of a younger vampire to votes of your choice.") to
change Emerson's votes against to votes in favor.
This overrides the usual rule that votes, once cast, are final, because
Kindred Manipulation has card text saying it changes a vampire's votes.
Loyalist has no text saying that the votes it grants cannot be changed
in some stronger way than the usual fact that votes, once cast, can't be
changed. It seems to me that its saying "gains 3 votes against the
referendum" shouldn't be any more immutable a statement than "Emerson
has 2 votes against the referendum".
Help?
Josh
pretty loyal
Flux
> On 17 Nov 2003, the_capuchin wrote:
>
>
>>Fatima al-Faqadi loved that one.
>>The best DotB-counter possible; an *equipment*. It's kinda funny.
>
>
> I would still rate Ghoul Retainer as a better answer. The Finger might
> look best at first glance, but the Ghoul provides:
>
> A) protection against DotB
> B) protection against IG
> C) A 4 + 1 regular/agg package with the AR and Bow, which burns the crap
> out of people for zero cards.
With the Ghoul you can't maneuver to long, so you get the crap punched out
of you (with Scorpion Sting, no dodging). Then you can go to torpor happy in
the knowledge that all that pool you spent on equipment will be put to good
use by your diablerist (who was sensible enough to carry one Skin of Rock to
prevent that pesky Bow hit). :P
Oh, and maneuvering to long also happens to be a good defense against IG.
Flux
LSJ
> Help?
"X votes against" cannot be cast in favor, by inspection (else
they would not be "votes against").
If the vampire must vote in favor, then the X votes against that he
would be casting if he were voting against are not cast. Casting
the votes against would violate the rule about splitting votes
from a single source. Since the votes cannot be cast in favor
(they are "votes against"), the simply aren't cast if the vampire
is forced into agreement.
Joshua Duffin
> Joshua Duffin wrote:
> > Help?
>
> "X votes against" cannot be cast in favor, by inspection (else
> they would not be "votes against").
They would *no longer* be votes against, no. Gaining 3 votes against
doesn't have to mean that they can't be changed by other card effects;
to me it seems like it only means that the playing Methuselah doesn't
get the normal choice of how to cast the votes gained.
I would expect unchangeable votes to have card text saying that the
votes cannot be changed by other effects.
I guess I'm thinking of the sentence like:
This vampire [gains 3 votes] [against the referendum].
And perhaps you're thinking of it like:
This vampire gains [3 votes against the referendum].
That is, to you it's an essential trait of the votes that they are
against. To me, they're just votes, which the card says have to be cast
(initially) against.
I find it more intuitive for the votes to be changeable the same way all
other votes are, obviously. :-)
Josh
inconstant as the northern star
David Cherryholmes
> With the Ghoul you can't maneuver to long, so you get the crap punched out
> of you (with Scorpion Sting, no dodging). Then you can go to torpor happy in
> the knowledge that all that pool you spent on equipment will be put to good
> use by your diablerist (who was sensible enough to carry one Skin of Rock to
> prevent that pesky Bow hit). :P
Man, this is going to turn into one of those "and then I play
THIS!" conversations....
Fatima stays topped off pretty well be generally being at long, paying no
blood for her combats, and lobbing out a Taste every so often to fill back
up. Therefore, I will assume that getting smacked for, say, less than six
is survivable. On top of that I, at least, play with some amount of
damage prevention and am quite happy to play with an effective hand size
of six or even five (prevent + DI) for a long, long time due to the nature
of her form of combat and general restraing in rushing every time she
can. Therefore, she also has a good possiblity of preventing. Lastly I,
at least, also play with Elemental Stoicism, possibly rendering the
poke/breath/bow/whatever problem irrelevant.
And lastly, every deck's got the paper to its rock; the fact that an All
Gun, All the Time archetype such as The Fatimator has potential answers to
its absolute antithesis is some measure of the deck's strength.
> Oh, and maneuvering to long also happens to be a good defense against IG.
Which is why you generally smoke it, but every now and then Theo picks the
fight and gets lucky.
Flux
> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Flux wrote:
>
>
>>With the Ghoul you can't maneuver to long, so you get the crap punched out
>>of you (with Scorpion Sting, no dodging). Then you can go to torpor happy in
>>the knowledge that all that pool you spent on equipment will be put to good
>>use by your diablerist (who was sensible enough to carry one Skin of Rock to
>>prevent that pesky Bow hit). :P
>
>
> Man, this is going to turn into one of those "and then I play
> THIS!" conversations....
Hehe... :)
> Fatima stays topped off pretty well be generally being at long, paying no
> blood for her combats, and lobbing out a Taste every so often to fill back
> up. Therefore, I will assume that getting smacked for, say, less than six
> is survivable. On top of that I, at least, play with some amount of
> damage prevention and am quite happy to play with an effective hand size
> of six or even five (prevent + DI) for a long, long time due to the nature
> of her form of combat and general restraing in rushing every time she
> can. Therefore, she also has a good possiblity of preventing. Lastly I,
> at least, also play with Elemental Stoicism, possibly rendering the
> poke/breath/bow/whatever problem irrelevant.
>
> And lastly, every deck's got the paper to its rock; the fact that an All
> Gun, All the Time archetype such as The Fatimator has potential answers to
> its absolute antithesis is some measure of the deck's strength.
Ok, if that is your deck, then yes, I can see why you would prefer the Ghoul
to the Finger. But note that in that case, you don't need the Ghoul to
survive DtoB, it just limits your attack.
And even then, the Finger would let you maneuver to long then Blur for 4 + 4
+ 4/1 agg, a superior attack against vampires with more than 5 blood (but
dodgeable).
I think overall the Finger would be superior for defense, and on most cases
(but not all) for offense too.
Flux
salem
>> And lastly, every deck's got the paper to its rock; the fact that an All
>> Gun, All the Time archetype such as The Fatimator has potential answers to
>> its absolute antithesis is some measure of the deck's strength.
>
>Ok, if that is your deck, then yes, I can see why you would prefer the Ghoul
>to the Finger. But note that in that case, you don't need the Ghoul to
>survive DtoB, it just limits your attack.
>
>And even then, the Finger would let you maneuver to long then Blur for 4 + 4
>+ 4/1 agg, a superior attack against vampires with more than 5 blood (but
>dodgeable).
how are you going to get the +4/1 agg on your last strike?
Either Fatima's striking with bow on the last strike, so it's 1 agg,
or she's striking with Rifle, so it's 4.
The Ghouly can only take a shot during the initial strike resolution
phase.
>I think overall the Finger would be superior for defense, and on most cases
>(but not all) for offense too.
I just think it'd be great with Succubus Club for the sole reason that
you get to say "I give you the Finger". :P
Flux
> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 22:36:27 +0000, Flux <fl...@netc.pt> scrawled:
>
>
>
>>>And lastly, every deck's got the paper to its rock; the fact that an All
>>>Gun, All the Time archetype such as The Fatimator has potential answers to
>>>its absolute antithesis is some measure of the deck's strength.
>>
>>Ok, if that is your deck, then yes, I can see why you would prefer the Ghoul
>>to the Finger. But note that in that case, you don't need the Ghoul to
>>survive DtoB, it just limits your attack.
>>
>>And even then, the Finger would let you maneuver to long then Blur for 4 + 4
>>+ 4/1 agg, a superior attack against vampires with more than 5 blood (but
>>dodgeable).
>
>
> how are you going to get the +4/1 agg on your last strike?
> Either Fatima's striking with bow on the last strike, so it's 1 agg,
> or she's striking with Rifle, so it's 4.
> The Ghouly can only take a shot during the initial strike resolution
> phase.
That was meant as 4 OR 1 agg, not (4+1 agg). In that scenario there was no
Ghoul involved.
Flux
Frederick Scott
> Shape Mastery
> Combat/Reaction
> Protean
> [pro] Cancel a combat card that requires Obtenebration, Protean, or
> Vicissitude as it is played (no cost is paid). The opposing minion cannot
> play that card again this action.
> <PRO> As above, but cancel an action modifier that requires any of those
> Disciplines.
Obvious question: can a player Shape Mastery a Shape Mastery? I guess logic
suggests the answer would be yes, but I don't know if there's any
timing issues involved that I wasn't thinking about. It seems the same as
Sudden Reversing a Sudden Reverse, though, no?
Fred
LSJ
> I find it more intuitive for the votes to be changeable the same way all
> other votes are, obviously. :-)
Like anything that is restricted, it is not as free as the unrestricted
version.
See also "press to continue".
LSJ
> Gomi no Sensei wrote:
>
>>Shape Mastery
>>Combat/Reaction
>>Protean
>>[pro] Cancel a combat card that requires Obtenebration, Protean, or
>>Vicissitude as it is played (no cost is paid). The opposing minion cannot
>>play that card again this action.
>><PRO> As above, but cancel an action modifier that requires any of those
>>Disciplines.
>
>
> Obvious question: can a player Shape Mastery a Shape Mastery? I guess logic
> suggests the answer would be yes, but I don't know if there's any
Card text suffices without having to resort to logic. :-)
Assuming the first was not played as a reaction card, of course.
> timing issues involved that I wasn't thinking about. It seems the same as
> Sudden Reversing a Sudden Reverse, though, no?
Exactly.
Colin Riggs
"David Cherryholmes" <david.che...@duke.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.031117...@petsparc.duhs.duke.edu...
> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Flux wrote:
>
> > With the Ghoul you can't maneuver to long, so you get the crap punched
out
> > of you (with Scorpion Sting, no dodging). Then you can go to torpor
happy in
> > the knowledge that all that pool you spent on equipment will be put to
good
> > use by your diablerist (who was sensible enough to carry one Skin of
Rock to
> > prevent that pesky Bow hit). :P
>
> Man, this is going to turn into one of those "and then I play
> THIS!" conversations....
>
Has anyone showed up with the 20 Flash 20 Fast hands deck at your tables yet
David? It seems like if they could just pick the right game, they could
laugh and laugh.
Oh if not for playing to win...
Colin Riggs
last night 4 of my magnums got destroyed through Canine Hordes, and a Hell
Hound plus Meddling plus DI really screwed weenie potence rush. Weird tables
I know.
the_capuchin
> the_capuchin wrote:
> >>>Sire's Index Finger
> > Fatima al-Faqadi loved that one.
> > The best DotB-counter possible; an *equipment*. It's kinda funny.
>
> Fatima's special only retrieves weapons, not general equipment, mind you.
definitely, I need to sleep.
the_capuchin
> (but not all) for offense too.
And it costs nothing, as far as I remember (and if the spoiler was
correct).
Sometimes I just can't afford the cost of the Ghoul Retainer. I never
played Fatima's Assault Rifle Deck without the two copies of GR i own
in it, but it's good to see there's a cheaper counter to DotB, even if
not capable of providing counter-counter-attack as the GR does.
Sometimes these two pool are the difference between ousting and
survival in a tournament.
Joshua Duffin
> Like anything that is restricted, it is not as free as the
unrestricted
> version.
>
> See also "press to continue".
Ah, good comparison. Dead-end alley: "Press, only usable to continue
combat." It would make more sense to me that the votes can't be changed
if Loyalist said "gains 3 votes, only usable to vote against the
referendum, and casts them against."
For what it's worth.
Josh
got something against me
Frederick Scott
> Path of Evil Revelations
> Unique Master card (note: no cost)
>
> Put this card in play. During your master phase, you may burn 1 pool
> to untap all infernal minions you control. Any minion may burn this
> card as a (d) action; if that minion is a vampire, he or she takes one
> damage (damage not preventable) when this card is burned.
HEY!!! Cool. It may not be enough to make the Baali usable but it sure
can't hurt anything!
Fred
LSJ
>
> Ah, good comparison. Dead-end alley: "Press, only usable to continue
> combat." It would make more sense to me that the votes can't be changed
> if Loyalist said "gains 3 votes, only usable to vote against the
> referendum, and casts them against."
The trade off between brevity and readability and the number of people
that claim to misunderstand the effect (not to mention the time spent
anticipating the claims; playtesters catch some, but it's not foolproof).
> For what it's worth.
Scapelli. Shotgun Ritual. Mark of Damnation.
"press to continue"
David Cherryholmes
> I think overall the Finger would be superior for defense, and on most cases
> (but not all) for offense too.
I'll go so far as to allow that it is better for defense, but I still
disagree about the offensive option. The Finger doesn't allow you to burn
vampires *effortlessly*. It is based upon this combination of offensive
and defensive merits that I rate the Ghoul, overall, superior to the
finger.
salem
scrawled:
>Joshua Duffin wrote:
>> "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
>>>See also "press to continue".
>>
>> Ah, good comparison. Dead-end alley: "Press, only usable to continue
>> combat." It would make more sense to me that the votes can't be changed
>> if Loyalist said "gains 3 votes, only usable to vote against the
>> referendum, and casts them against."
>
>The trade off between brevity and readability and the number of people
>that claim to misunderstand the effect (not to mention the time spent
>anticipating the claims; playtesters catch some, but it's not foolproof).
Does the vampire playing Loyalist actually have to cast them though
(under the actual current text :)?
>> For what it's worth.
>
>Scapelli. Shotgun Ritual. Mark of Damnation.
>"press to continue"
Frenzy, Save Face, Apportation, Mob Connections.
LSJ
> On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:51:39 -0500, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com>
> scrawled:
>
>
>>Joshua Duffin wrote:
>>
>>>"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>>>See also "press to continue".
>>>
>>>Ah, good comparison. Dead-end alley: "Press, only usable to continue
>>>combat." It would make more sense to me that the votes can't be changed
>>>if Loyalist said "gains 3 votes, only usable to vote against the
>>>referendum, and casts them against."
>>
>>The trade off between brevity and readability and the number of people
>>that claim to misunderstand the effect (not to mention the time spent
>>anticipating the claims; playtesters catch some, but it's not foolproof).
>
> Does the vampire playing Loyalist actually have to cast them though
> (under the actual current text :)?
Yes. A vote against is against.
>>>For what it's worth.
>>
>>Scapelli. Shotgun Ritual. Mark of Damnation.
>>"press to continue"
>
> Frenzy, Save Face, Apportation, Mob Connections.
Without looking those up, they are either: further examples of "press
to continue" or they are examples of other phrasing that do not diminish
the examples I gave.
salem
scrawled:
>salem wrote:
>> On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:51:39 -0500, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com>
>> scrawled:
>>
>>
>>>Joshua Duffin wrote:
>>>
>>>>"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>>See also "press to continue".
>>>>
>>>>Ah, good comparison. Dead-end alley: "Press, only usable to continue
>>>>combat." It would make more sense to me that the votes can't be changed
>>>>if Loyalist said "gains 3 votes, only usable to vote against the
>>>>referendum, and casts them against."
>>>
>>>The trade off between brevity and readability and the number of people
>>>that claim to misunderstand the effect (not to mention the time spent
>>>anticipating the claims; playtesters catch some, but it's not foolproof).
>>
>> Does the vampire playing Loyalist actually have to cast them though
>> (under the actual current text :)?
>
>Yes. A vote against is against.
as obvious as that line it, is makes it all clear to me now. weird.
>>>>For what it's worth.
>>>
>>>Scapelli. Shotgun Ritual. Mark of Damnation.
>>>"press to continue"
>>
>> Frenzy, Save Face, Apportation, Mob Connections.
>
>Without looking those up, they are either: further examples of "press
>to continue" or they are examples of other phrasing that do not diminish
>the examples I gave.
yeah, i was supplying further cases for you, not counter examples.
sorry. :)
PS: I did a Save Face from torpor today. Am i allowed to do that? it
doesn't say 'ready' on it....
LSJ
> PS: I did a Save Face from torpor today. Am i allowed to do that? it
> doesn't say 'ready' on it....
Yes.
Google: "Save Face torpor author:LSJ"
See also
Google: "Martyr torpor author:LSJ"
salem
scrawled:
>salem wrote:
>> PS: I did a Save Face from torpor today. Am i allowed to do that? it
>> doesn't say 'ready' on it....
>
>Yes.
>
>Google: "Save Face torpor author:LSJ"
I was a little bit worried that i was going to be the one that asked
the question in that thread, and so i'd look extra stoopid. but i
wasn't. yay! (especially seeing as the thread got a little antsy in
places)