[LSJ] Black Forest Base & multiple attempts to call the referendum in a given turn?
Drag0nBear
Master: unique location
Requires a ready Sabbat vampire.
Once each turn, a Sabbat vampire may call a referendum to give his or
her controller 2 pool from the blood bank as a +1 stealth political
action. Any Changeling may burn this card as a +1 stealth D action.
Q: Can a Methuselah attempt additional political actions to call the
referendum on this card if the previous one is blocked?
I'm thinking No ("Once each turn,") , but I'd like some certainty
please.
It could be argued that it's 'calling the referendum' that's limited
to once each turn, and that an unsuccessful (blocked) political action
doesn't actually call the referendum, so the Methuselah's other
vampires are free to keep attempting to call said referendum.
[6.3.2]: "If a political action is successful, the referendum is
called."
c.f. 'During X do Y' ruling limiting X to once per Y.
Don't believe NRA applies in this case as it's not the same vamp
attempting to call the referendum.
Corollary question: is there anything that makes "calling a
referendum" distinct from the associated political action? (Or is this
moot?)
If there are previous postings or specific rules references that cover
this, please point me in the right direction as my search engine
obviously needs upgrading, 'cos I couldn't find any!
Cheers,
A.
Drag0nBear
Sorry, this was supposed to have "LSJ" in brackets at the front but
apparently anything in square brackets gets cut off :(
Can you rename/retitle a thread? If so, how please?
Salem
> On Dec 24, 10:17 pm, Drag0nBear <drag0nb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Black Forest Base:
>> Master: unique location
>> Requires a ready Sabbat vampire.
>> Once each turn, a Sabbat vampire may call a referendum to give his or
>> her controller 2 pool from the blood bank as a +1 stealth political
>> action. Any Changeling may burn this card as a +1 stealth D action.
>>
>> Q: Can a Methuselah attempt additional political actions to call the
>> referendum on this card if the previous one is blocked?
>>
>> I'm thinking No ("Once each turn,") , but I'd like some certainty
>> please.
you are correct. the answer is 'no'. if you keep reading the card,
you'll see that it includes 'as a +1 stealth political action'. Thus,
only once per turn can you take that political action, regardless of
whether or not it reaches referendum.
>> Corollary question: is there anything that makes "calling a
>> referendum" distinct from the associated political action? (Or is this
>> moot?)
referendum is what happens on successful resolution of a political
action, or when someone diablerises (or otherwise instigates a blood
hunt referendum). So it's not always tied to a political action.
> Sorry, this was supposed to have "LSJ" in brackets at the front but
> apparently anything in square brackets gets cut off :(
> Can you rename/retitle a thread? If so, how please?
Google groups won't show stuff in [] in the subject of a post. but the
stuff in [] still shows up fine elsewhere that usenet is seen (such as
me right now using Thunderbird).
You can't rename a thread though. or edit posts, or recall them. this is
usenet, in all it's raw glory! :D
--
salem
(replace 'hotmail' with 'gmail' to email)
LSJ
> On Dec 24, 10:17 pm, Drag0nBear <drag0nb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > Black Forest Base:
> > Master: unique location
> > Requires a ready Sabbat vampire.
> > Once each turn, a Sabbat vampire may call a referendum to give his or
> > her controller 2 pool from the blood bank as a +1 stealth political
> > action. Any Changeling may burn this card as a +1 stealth D action.
>
> > Q: Can a Methuselah attempt additional political actions to call the
> > referendum on this card if the previous one is blocked?
Yes.
> > I'm thinking No ("Once each turn,") , but I'd like some certainty
> > please.
The first was not called.
> > It could be argued that it's 'calling the referendum' that's limited
> > to once each turn, and that an unsuccessful (blocked) political action
> > doesn't actually call the referendum, so the Methuselah's other
> > vampires are free to keep attempting to call said referendum.
> > [6.3.2]: "If a political action is successful, the referendum is
> > called."
Correct.
> > c.f. 'During X do Y' ruling limiting X to once per Y.
> > Don't believe NRA applies in this case as it's not the same vamp
> > attempting to call the referendum.
Correct.
> > Corollary question: is there anything that makes "calling a
> > referendum" distinct from the associated political action? (Or is this
> > moot?)
The political action attempts to call the referendum.
> > If there are previous postings or specific rules references that cover
> > this, please point me in the right direction as my search engine
> > obviously needs upgrading, 'cos I couldn't find any!
> > Cheers,
>
> > A.
>
> Sorry, this was supposed to have "LSJ" in brackets at the front but
> apparently anything in square brackets gets cut off :(
> Can you rename/retitle a thread? If so, how please?
It has the desired [LSJ] on it, so no worries there.
But, no, you cannot rename a thread. This is USENET. Write-once. Like
e-mail. You send it and then it's carved in stone. It is not a web
forum. You can change the subject for your own responses, however
(before sending), simply by entering a new subject in the subject line
(if you're stuck using a Google's crippled newsposting interface, you
have to click "Edit Subject" when the reply window shows up).
LSJ
> On Dec 24, 4:20 am, Drag0nBear <drag0nb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 24, 10:17 pm, Drag0nBear <drag0nb...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Black Forest Base:
> > > Master: unique location
> > > Requires a ready Sabbat vampire.
> > > Once each turn, a Sabbat vampire may call a referendum to give his or
> > > her controller 2 pool from the blood bank as a +1 stealth political
> > > action. Any Changeling may burn this card as a +1 stealth D action.
>
> > > Q: Can a Methuselah attempt additional political actions to call the
> > > referendum on this card if the previous one is blocked?
>
> Yes.
Scratch that. You (and Salem) are right. I glossed over the "as an
action" bit.
That'll teach me to post before coffee.
> > > I'm thinking No ("Once each turn,") , but I'd like some certainty
> > > please.
Correct.
> The first was not called.
>
> > > It could be argued that it's 'calling the referendum' that's limited
> > > to once each turn, and that an unsuccessful (blocked) political action
> > > doesn't actually call the referendum, so the Methuselah's other
> > > vampires are free to keep attempting to call said referendum.
> > > [6.3.2]: "If a political action is successful, the referendum is
> > > called."
Salem
> Scratch that. You (and Salem) are right. I glossed over the "as an
> action" bit.
> That'll teach me to post before coffee.
correct. never post before coffee. read during coffee is fine, but no
responding until after the caffeine has hit your system :)
Drag0nBear
Excellent, thanks to you both.