Art of Memory
Metropolis
I think many combo decks will benefit...
although I think stealth bleed will as well...
Voting & bloating...
The Black Hand restriction is nice..
Metropolis
Jalan with uncontrollable rage...
Halcyan 2
during the action?)
Halcyan 2
Simcof
and such key combat cards.
ben szymkow
Aramis
during this action from your ash heap to your hand."
When does this card's effect kick in? Specifically I'm curious if you
can use it to pull combat cards from a successful rush action's combat
back into your hand.
Ulugh Beg II
"Aramis" <came...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:d9925496.03111...@posting.google.com...
The combat is part of the action. So yeah, you can use this to pull back
important combat cards.
I like the concept, but I'm not sure if it's really useful to recycle
key combat cards. I mean, you could just as well add extra copies of
those combat cards, no? Even more so, if your rush action is blocked, it
failed (and ends) and the card is wasted, since you have to play it when
announcing the action.
I can see more use in a Bleeder where you can choose to either recycle
the bleed card OR the stealth card, whichever one you need more. This
would really help fight hand jams with preys that refuse to block. I can
also see this used in a vote deck, where you can choose to recycle the
stealth, the bewitching, the awe, the voter caps or maybe even the Kiss
of Ra. I'm not sure if you're able to recycle the political card itself,
but I think you can't. It specifically says "during the action", which
doesn't start before the action card itself is resolved.
So, at a first glance this *seems* to help bleeders and voters more than
it does fighters. A good thing, since if we're spicing up fighter a LOT
(which Black Hand seems to do), you need to give the rest some new
options too.
Orpheus
> > during this action from your ash heap to your hand."
> >
> > When does this card's effect kick in? Specifically I'm curious if you
> > can use it to pull combat cards from a successful rush action's combat
> > back into your hand.
>
> The combat is part of the action. So yeah, you can use this to pull back
> important combat cards.
>
> I like the concept, but I'm not sure if it's really useful to recycle
> key combat cards. I mean, you could just as well add extra copies of
> those combat cards, no? Even more so, if your rush action is blocked, it
> failed (and ends) and the card is wasted, since you have to play it when
> announcing the action.
>
> I can see more use in a Bleeder where you can choose to either recycle
> the bleed card OR the stealth card, whichever one you need more. This
> would really help fight hand jams with preys that refuse to block. I can
> also see this used in a vote deck, where you can choose to recycle the
> stealth, the bewitching, the awe, the voter caps or maybe even the Kiss
> of Ra.
No. Kiss : Only usable when a vampire who does not have Fortitude attempts
to block this acting minion. [for] The block attempt is canceled, the
blocking vampire burns 2 blood, and the action is now blocked. [FOR] As
above, and the blocking vampire goes into torpor.
If the action is blocked, it is not succesful.
Orpheus, the guy with a crack (!) for stating the obvious.
isaphrael
> I wonder if you can retrieve the action card that was played. (Does it count as
> during the action?)
>
> Halcyan 2
i am also wondering if you can retrieve that are burned during the
action, like sunrise service or spying mission
-Prince of Harrisburg
salem
<dontfe...@spam.me> scrawled:
>
>"Aramis" <came...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
>news:d9925496.03111...@posting.google.com...
>> "If the action is successful, move one card played by this vampire
>> during this action from your ash heap to your hand."
>>
>> When does this card's effect kick in? Specifically I'm curious if you
>> can use it to pull combat cards from a successful rush action's combat
>> back into your hand.
>
>The combat is part of the action. So yeah, you can use this to pull back
>important combat cards.
>
>I like the concept, but I'm not sure if it's really useful to recycle
>key combat cards. I mean, you could just as well add extra copies of
>those combat cards, no? Even more so, if your rush action is blocked, it
>failed (and ends) and the card is wasted, since you have to play it when
>announcing the action.
just like you mentioned for voters/bleeders, it gives you the
_options_. You can recyle the maneuver if there's a lot of manevering
going around. or the grapple/psyche if they keep s:ce-ing. or the
strike if there's not many maneuvers or s:ce. or the taste if you're
running low on blood. or the claws of the dead if there's little
fortitude. etc.
salem
domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm
Slytherin
No, as those are not played during the action, but during a previous
action, and then just burnt. There would be no way of getting those
cards back using Art of Memory.
Aside from not having many of any particular card (usually rares) are
there really any reasons for using this card. As far as I can see, it
will help in a limited format using Black Hand, but otherwise it uses
up 2 cards slots to replace 1 card (The card slot it has, plus the
discarded card back down to your hand size). So, aside from your
Perfect Clarity/Awe/<insert card you would like much more of here> I
can't see how it would benefit. I certainly wouldn't be swapping out
Conditioning, Voter Cap, Immortal Grapple, etc. as 1 card slot is used
and I have plenty for my decks. (Now, if it allowed you to retrieve a
Master Card played that turn...)
Just my thought, probably will start a flame war, but thought I'd
mention it.
Andy
VEKN Setite Ruler of Cambridge
Albert Chang
> there really any reasons for using this card. As far as I can see, it
> will help in a limited format using Black Hand, but otherwise it uses
> up 2 cards slots to replace 1 card (The card slot it has, plus the
> discarded card back down to your hand size). So, aside from your
> Perfect Clarity/Awe/<insert card you would like much more of here> I
> can't see how it would benefit. I certainly wouldn't be swapping out
> Conditioning, Voter Cap, Immortal Grapple, etc. as 1 card slot is used
> and I have plenty for my decks. (Now, if it allowed you to retrieve a
> Master Card played that turn...)
Well, depending on how combo intensive the deck may be, having a card that
can essentially turn into a number of different cards is always useful.
Pepijn
Does aren't played, so can't be retrieved... would be my guess..
Pepijn
> during the action?)
Don't think so. You announce the action by playing the action card.
Then the action starts more or less. So I guess it can't be retrieved
this way
Pepijn
LSJ
After the action is resolved.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
salem
scrawled:
exactly. it gives you options. your deck, presumably, will have a
number of cards that do stuff in various different scenarios. now,
instead of adding more of X if you find you need it, but then if
you're not up against Y, X is useless and you would have been better
off with Z, you could 'hedge' your bets and play with Art of Memory,
and retrieve whichever of X or Z you need in the given situation.
simple example: stealth bleed. if you see a lot of intercept, you'll
want more stealth to make sure you get through. but if you're not
bleeding an intercepty person, you'd wish all those stealth cards were
+bleed. AoM lets you retrieve whichever you need depending on your
prey's defenses.
mgreen02
> Very interesting new card.
>
> I think many combo decks will benefit.
>
At its most obvious, this sidesteps rarity restrictions. It you don't
own 8 Mind Rapes (but why not?!?) then 6 of them and 2 Art of Memory
(AoM) might just suffice. It even improves card cycling from your
hand. Horrid Form stands out initially as a deck type that would
benefit from this angle- all you need is to see one and the multiples
will stack up.
It is harder, however, to come up with instances where you would
include it over additional copies of the cards themselves. Although, I
suppose that polital actions could be saved from an unexpected failed
referendum. Even then why not just include methods of ensuring the
referendum passes?
To get maximum use from the card you would need a multi-card
combination where as soon as you saw one part of the combo, the Art of
Memories would cycle away duplicate copies in order to get the other
part(s) into your hand quicker.
I think that combat deck might just do well out of this. They
frequently need Grapple+strike+press or some combination therein. They
can also tailor what they keep to the deck they are fighting: e.g:
keep a copy of Drawing out the Beast in hand versus guns decks and
cycle them away when they were not needed.
Interesting card
Matt Green
John Flournoy
> Aside from not having many of any particular card (usually rares) are
> there really any reasons for using this card. As far as I can see, it
> will help in a limited format using Black Hand, but otherwise it uses
> up 2 cards slots to replace 1 card (The card slot it has, plus the
> discarded card back down to your hand size). So, aside from your
> Perfect Clarity/Awe/<insert card you would like much more of here> I
> can't see how it would benefit. I certainly wouldn't be swapping out
> Conditioning, Voter Cap, Immortal Grapple, etc. as 1 card slot is used
> and I have plenty for my decks. (Now, if it allowed you to retrieve a
> Master Card played that turn...)
>
> Just my thought, probably will start a flame war, but thought I'd
> mention it.
You can always view it as 'takes up one card, plus gives you an extra
discard', especially if you're the sort of player who favors putting
the Barrens in your deck (or all your decks).
Also consider that not every player has as many of every card that
they'd like - lots of players build decks that say 'boy, if I only had
more of this card, I'd put it in there' - this gives them a way to
make some of their limited resources go further (without having to
play with Necromancy). I expect we'll see people using it to retrieve
things like Awe, for example.
> Andy
> VEKN Setite Ruler of Cambridge
-John Flournoy
vermillian
> Also consider that not every player has as many of every card that
> they'd like - lots of players build decks that say 'boy, if I only had
> more of this card, I'd put it in there' - this gives them a way to
> make some of their limited resources go further (without having to
> play with Necromancy). I expect we'll see people using it to retrieve
> things like Awe, for example.
Or freakdrives... man, this card goes into like, everydeck.
~SV
The Lasombra
>I wonder if you can retrieve the action card that was played. (Does it count as
>during the action?)
Yes.
LSJ White Wolf Forum 11/12/2003
"The action card counts. It is played during the action. "
Carpe noctem.
Lasombra
Smiling Tom
"Metropolis" <do...@umich.edu> escribió en el mensaje
news:eA8sb.4988$H91.1...@news.itd.umich.edu...
I've been thinking on this card for since yesterday. Seeing that dolphin
having a bath inside of a cross made of blood, well, I was sure there could
be a way in which I could play this card somehow, and not in combo decks.
The answer to me, are the almost opposite kind of decks of combo cards:
Toolbox.
A problem you have when playing toolbox, is that you use small amounts of
several cards, most of them contingency, or so. But, once you play the deck,
you allways ask yourself, "why haven't I packed more copies of card X? It
would have worked like a charm on this game"
The answer is art of memory. If you pack, say, 2 entrancements in your deck,
"just in case" you'll face any ally deck, well, you achieve to steal 1 of
those allies. But with art of memory, you may multiply in fact those cards.
So you can go around playing your standard game, and use Art of Memory to
retrieve those standard cards that allways are ok (govern the unaligned, art
scam, lost in crowds, daring the dawn...) AND if you hold any hoser card
against an opponent strategy, abuse it. (jar the soul, entrancement, far
mastery, kine dominance, DOMAIN CHALLENGE, DRAMATIC UPHEAVAL, PERFECT
CLARITY) thus not having to overload your deck with cards like that, if you
really don't need them for the current game, might jam your hand.
Now it's time to see how many !toreadors start as black hands, and start
abusing of Flipper's help :-P
Smiling Tom
Timlagor
> Selena Govern with perfect clarity & bonding, which do you choose?
Govern pretty much every time. though obviously it may depend on your
hand/deck.
Mats Ellingsen
way to help u a little bit on the way? I'm just thinking, if two or
more is afther the same diseplin, there is usaly hard to get any good
cards, or even avrage. This card makes drafts a little bit more
"esey".
Curevei
Still going after the same card. What I often find in V:TES draft is that your
good cards are cards other people wanted but had to pass on because there was
something better or some rare they felt like drafting. As this happens as
often as a pack has nothing but crap, drafting good stuff all of the time makes
sense. Add more good stuff and, sure, decks get better, but they should just
equally get better which gives you no advantage.
Metropolis
Assassins, it amounts to great memory skills through strange memorie
devices. There are at least two main advantages, aided memory
retention through dicipline and it makes it really hard for someone to
effectively read your mind, ie you look in my mind and see Flipper
jumping out of a cross of blood, what does that mean? Hopefully only I
know : )