Zip Gun destroyed question - LSJ
John P.
uses the zip gun to maneuver.
Opposing vampire uses Canine Horde
to kill zip gun with first strike.
Does the first minion still take the one damage from
using the zip gun in the strike resolution phase?
Thanks
-JTP
LSJ
Yes. Once he used the maneuver, his fate is sealed
(assuming you get to strike resolution -- a S:CE
would save him).
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
The Cadaverous Verger
> (assuming you get to strike resolution -- a S:CE
> would save him).
But doesn't this require the use of, say, Primal Instincts since the
minion's strike was locked to the now non-existent Zip Gun, thanks to
using the maneuver?
--CV
salem
<cadavero...@REMOVETHISpriest.com> scrawled:
if you maneuvered with the zip gun, and then changed your strike with
a primal instincts, you'd have to choose zip gun again as your strike.
_however_, if the OTHER minion plays a combat ends, the zip gun guy
does not get hurt by the zip gun.
however, this makes me wonder:
if someone then plays Telepathic Tracking after the Combat ends strike
resolves, and the zip gun guys doesn't use the zip gun in that next
round, does he still take 1 damage during strike resolution in that
next round to satisfy zip gun's text?
"Bearer takes 1 damage during strike resolution when this gun is
used, but only once each combat".
salem
domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
The Cadaverous Verger
> if you maneuvered with the zip gun, and then changed your strike with
> a primal instincts, you'd have to choose zip gun again as your strike.
Hm, true.
> _however_, if the OTHER minion plays a combat ends, the zip gun guy
> does not get hurt by the zip gun.
Yeah, but the other guy already ate the gun with Canine Horde. So I
guess this means the Zip Gunner is SOL -- well, unless he takes an
additional strike and uses it for a S:CE?
--CV
LSJ
> if someone then plays Telepathic Tracking after the Combat ends strike
> resolves, and the zip gun guys doesn't use the zip gun in that next
> round, does he still take 1 damage during strike resolution in that
> next round to satisfy zip gun's text?
> "Bearer takes 1 damage during strike resolution when this gun is
> used, but only once each combat".
No. He'd only take damage during strike resolution if he used the
gun as his strike in the next round.
Joshua Duffin
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
news:%mVId.75533$w62....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> John P. wrote:
>
> > Bearer of zip gun enters combat,
> > uses the zip gun to maneuver.
> >
> > Opposing vampire uses Canine Horde
> > to kill zip gun with first strike.
> >
> > Does the first minion still take the one damage from
> > using the zip gun in the strike resolution phase?
>
> Yes. Once he used the maneuver, his fate is sealed
> (assuming you get to strike resolution -- a S:CE
> would save him).
Hmm. If the weapon is burned before its strike resolves, shouldn't its
side effect damage disappear with the burned Zip Gun? Cards that have
an effect while in play normally lose their effects if they leave play
before the effects would occur.
That's what happens with a burned copy of Anathema that would otherwise
go off (since it triggered before it burned), for example. (Not to
belabor that point. :-)
Josh
zippity do dah
James Coupe
LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> writes:
>salem wrote:
>> if someone then plays Telepathic Tracking after the Combat ends strike
>> resolves, and the zip gun guys doesn't use the zip gun in that next
>> round, does he still take 1 damage during strike resolution in that
>> next round to satisfy zip gun's text?
>> "Bearer takes 1 damage during strike resolution when this gun is
>> used, but only once each combat".
>
>No. He'd only take damage during strike resolution if he used the
>gun as his strike in the next round.
I'm 90% certain I'd've said the same.
To clarify: Presumably this is based on the fact that effects that
combat cards generate only last for the current round, unless explicitly
done otherwise. (e.g. the optional press you gain from Flash must be
used this round)
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D Who's ever heard of that, though!
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 Designing a deck that just calls votes.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D That's crazy talk, there.
LSJ
> Hmm. If the weapon is burned before its strike resolves, shouldn't its
> side effect damage disappear with the burned Zip Gun? Cards that have
> an effect while in play normally lose their effects if they leave play
> before the effects would occur.
It isn't an effect "while in play".
See also Camarilla Vitae Slave.
Joshua Duffin
> Joshua Duffin wrote:
> > Hmm. If the weapon is burned before its strike resolves, shouldn't
its
> > side effect damage disappear with the burned Zip Gun? Cards that
have
> > an effect while in play normally lose their effects if they leave
play
> > before the effects would occur.
>
> It isn't an effect "while in play".
> See also Camarilla Vitae Slave.
OK, I'll buy that cards that generate an effect as the result of some
other event don't have to remain in play for that effect to still
happen. But why isn't that a contradiction of how Anathema fails to
work when the vampire it's on is burned "right after" the vampire is
reduced to 0 blood? The Anathema should trigger its effect on the
reduction to 0 blood just as much as Zip Gun triggers its effect on the
declaration of strike: Zip Gun. But the Zip Gun will still inflict its
damage even if the card has been burned when its strike resolves,
whereas Anathema will have no effect if its card has been burned *after*
its effect triggers (but before it would resolve).
Josh
thesis, antithesis, synth-pop
Joshua Duffin
"James Coupe" <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message
news:k5+HYjwB...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk...
> In message <Wc5Jd.19804$8u5....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> writes:
> >salem wrote:
> >> if someone then plays Telepathic Tracking after the Combat ends
strike
> >> resolves, and the zip gun guys doesn't use the zip gun in that next
> >> round, does he still take 1 damage during strike resolution in that
> >> next round to satisfy zip gun's text?
> >> "Bearer takes 1 damage during strike resolution when this gun is
> >> used, but only once each combat".
> >
> >No. He'd only take damage during strike resolution if he used the
> >gun as his strike in the next round.
>
> I'm 90% certain I'd've said the same.
>
> To clarify: Presumably this is based on the fact that effects that
> combat cards generate only last for the current round, unless
explicitly
> done otherwise. (e.g. the optional press you gain from Flash must be
> used this round)
I'm confused here. Why would the Zip Gun try to inflict damage again if
it *is* used in the second round, when it already tried once in the
first round? I don't see why it should care if the damage was
successfully inflicted; the effect was generated when the strike was
declared in the first round, and just because it doesn't resolve if the
opposing minion strikes to end combat, it doesn't seem like the Zip Gun
should forget that its side-effect damage has already been invoked this
combat.
I'd certainly also have said that the Zip Gun doesn't inflict damage in
the second round when the bearer *doesn't* use it again in the second
round, though. :-)
Josh
not so zippy
LSJ
news:35n3kmF...@individual.net...
> OK, I'll buy that cards that generate an effect as the result of some
> other event don't have to remain in play for that effect to still
> happen. But why isn't that a contradiction of how Anathema fails to
Zip Gun maneuver sets up an effect that happens at a prescribed
later time.
Anathema does not set up any later time effect.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu
LSJ
> I'm confused here. Why would the Zip Gun try to inflict damage again if
> it *is* used in the second round, when it already tried once in the
> first round?
There is no try. Do. Or do not.
Zip Gun: "Bearer takes 1 damage during strike resolution when this gun is
used, but only once each combat. "
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Joshua Duffin
> "Joshua Duffin" <jtdu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:35n3vkF...@individual.net...
> > I'm confused here. Why would the Zip Gun try to inflict damage
again if
> > it *is* used in the second round, when it already tried once in the
> > first round?
>
> There is no try. Do. Or do not.
>
> Zip Gun: "Bearer takes 1 damage during strike resolution when this gun
is
> used, but only once each combat. "
So... the effect is set up when the gun is used, for strike resolution
of the current round. That effect will happen no matter what, it's been
queued. But if the effect doesn't resolve *successfully*, it says
"oops, the bearer didn't actually take that damage, I guess I'll invoke
myself again if the gun is used again, even though my effect is only
supposed to happen once per combat."
Sure, that makes perfect sense. :-)
I guess you're saying Zip Gun is results-based, not declaration-based -
the bearer has to *take* the 1 damage when the gun is used, and if he
hasn't, it'll keep trying until he takes it once during the combat - but
that doesn't seem very logical to me. It seems more natural for the
effect to only be generated once per combat, even if the damage isn't
actually "taken".
Your interpretation implies that if Ambrosius has a Zip Gun, the gun
will keep trying to damage him every time he uses it, because he has
still not taken any damage from it no matter how long the combat goes.
(Sure, that hardly matters to Ambrosius, since he's not going to start
taking damage from it unless it somehow becomes aggravated. But still.)
It would also imply that Contagion's strike at the superior can be used
again if the opposing minion strikes: combat ends and Telepathic
Tracking is played at [AUS]: "once per combat, this vampire can put a
corruption counter on the opposing minion as a strike." If the counter
isn't placed, the effect hasn't been done yet in this combat.
Josh
invocation excepted
LSJ
> I guess you're saying Zip Gun is results-based, not declaration-based -
> the bearer has to *take* the 1 damage when the gun is used, and if he
> hasn't, it'll keep trying until he takes it once during the combat - but
> that doesn't seem very logical to me. It seems more natural for the
> effect to only be generated once per combat, even if the damage isn't
> actually "taken".
I'm only saying what the card says. :-)
"Bearer takes 1 damage during strike resolution if this gun is used."
"Bearer takes this 1 damage during strike resolution only once each
combat."
> Your interpretation implies that if Ambrosius has a Zip Gun, the gun
> will keep trying to damage him every time he uses it, because he has
> still not taken any damage from it no matter how long the combat goes.
> (Sure, that hardly matters to Ambrosius, since he's not going to start
> taking damage from it unless it somehow becomes aggravated. But still.)
The Zip Gun doesn't care about "successfully".
If you prevent the first damage, it won't try to sting you again on
the second usage.
> It would also imply that Contagion's strike at the superior can be used
> again if the opposing minion strikes: combat ends and Telepathic
> Tracking is played at [AUS]: "once per combat, this vampire can put a
> corruption counter on the opposing minion as a strike." If the counter
> isn't placed, the effect hasn't been done yet in this combat.
Yes, yes it does.
See also Sawed-Off Shotgun. Or even a grenade.
Joshua Duffin
> "Joshua Duffin" <jtdu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:35n5apF...@individual.net...
> > I guess you're saying Zip Gun is results-based, not
declaration-based -
> > the bearer has to *take* the 1 damage when the gun is used, and if
he
> > hasn't, it'll keep trying until he takes it once during the combat -
but
> > that doesn't seem very logical to me. It seems more natural for the
> > effect to only be generated once per combat, even if the damage
isn't
> > actually "taken".
>
> I'm only saying what the card says. :-)
Stop repeating everything I say! :-)
> > It would also imply that Contagion's strike at the superior can be
used
> > again if the opposing minion strikes: combat ends and Telepathic
> > Tracking is played at [AUS]: "once per combat, this vampire can put
a
> > corruption counter on the opposing minion as a strike." If the
counter
> > isn't placed, the effect hasn't been done yet in this combat.
>
> Yes, yes it does.
>
> See also Sawed-Off Shotgun. Or even a grenade.
Ah, the Grenade had slipped my mind. Thanks, that does make sense, in
that that slightly unnatural interaction (which I'm used to) should mean
that I can become used to this one as well. :-)
Josh
once per blue moon