[LSJ] Resilient Mind Question
Tobias
A minion that has succesfully gotten a RM is sitting untapped, and
desires to block an action by a prey's minion.
Say, 'superior' Govern the Unaligned.
Cards in question (card name and text):
Resilient Mind
+1 stealth action. [for] Put this card on the acting vampire. When
another minion plays an action or combat card that requires
Dementation [dem], Dominate [dom], Obeah [obe] or Serpentis [ser],
this vampire can burn 1 blood to be immune to the effects of that
card. [FOR] As above, and this vampire untaps at the end of this
action.
Govern the Unaligned
[dom] (D) Bleed with +2 bleed. [DOM] +1 stealth action. Move three
blood from the blood bank to a younger vampire in your uncontrolled
region.
The Govern the Unaligned has no direct effect on the minion that wants
to block. However, is the +1 stealth of the GtU considered part of the
GtU's 'effect'? In other words, could the blocking minion burn 1 blood
to remove the +1 stealth, and then (attempt to) block?
My guess is no, but better to be safe and know for sure.
Thanks
--
Tobias
Deventer
LSJ
No is, of course, the correct answer.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
John Flournoy
> Tobias wrote:
> > LSJ,
> >
> > A minion that has succesfully gotten a RM is sitting untapped, and
> > desires to block an action by a prey's minion.
> >
> > Say, 'superior' Govern the Unaligned.
> >
> > Cards in question (card name and text):
> >
> > Resilient Mind
> > +1 stealth action. [for] Put this card on the acting vampire. When
> > another minion plays an action or combat card that requires
> > Dementation [dem], Dominate [dom], Obeah [obe] or Serpentis [ser],
> > this vampire can burn 1 blood to be immune to the effects of that
> > card. [FOR] As above, and this vampire untaps at the end of this
> > action.
> >
> > Govern the Unaligned
> > [dom] (D) Bleed with +2 bleed. [DOM] +1 stealth action. Move three
> > blood from the blood bank to a younger vampire in your uncontrolled
> > region.
> >
> > The Govern the Unaligned has no direct effect on the minion that wants
> > to block. However, is the +1 stealth of the GtU considered part of the
> > GtU's 'effect'? In other words, could the blocking minion burn 1 blood
> > to remove the +1 stealth, and then (attempt to) block?
> >
> > My guess is no, but better to be safe and know for sure.
>
> No is, of course, the correct answer.
A slightly longer answer than LSJ's, in case it matters, and a
follow-up to LSJ:
No, because the +1 stealth is not part of the effect. If it were, the
action suddenly wouldn't be able to be at stealth until it was
determined that the action was a success (since blocks prevent the
effect of an action from resolving), at which point the stealth isn't
relevant anymore. The stealth is simply an inherent modifier to the
action.
LSJ, correct me if I am wrong, but am I correct that there's no reason
why he couldn't burn a blood to ignore the zero-effect on him of GtU
and untap at the end of the action? Can a superior Resilient Mind'ed
vamp pay to untap at the end of any action taken using the listed
disciplines (or using them in combat), even if that action doesn't
affect him (or even if he's not in the combat at all)? It would seem
so, since the card text is 'when another minion plays an action or
combat card' as opposed to 'when another minion plays an action or
combat card that would affect this minion'.
-John Flournoy
LSJ
> LSJ, correct me if I am wrong, but am I correct that there's no reason
> why he couldn't burn a blood to ignore the zero-effect on him of GtU
If he has a Resilient Mind on him, he can choose to burn a blood to
be immune to any dem dom obe ser card, even if that card wouldn't
have an effect on him in the first place, sure.
> and untap at the end of the action? Can a superior Resilient Mind'ed
RM won't untap him at the end of the Govern action. RM is an action
itself (to put the card on oneself). At superior, that action doesn't
leave you tapped.
> vamp pay to untap at the end of any action taken using the listed
> disciplines (or using them in combat), even if that action doesn't
> affect him (or even if he's not in the combat at all)? It would seem
No.
> so, since the card text is 'when another minion plays an action or
> combat card' as opposed to 'when another minion plays an action or
> combat card that would affect this minion'.
RM is an action. It is put into play. In play, it gives a certain effect.
The superior untaps the acting vampire when it is put into play. It
doesn't untap him when he later burns a blood for immunity.
John Flournoy
> John Flournoy wrote:
> > LSJ, correct me if I am wrong, but am I correct that there's no reason
> > why he couldn't burn a blood to ignore the zero-effect on him of GtU
>
> If he has a Resilient Mind on him, he can choose to burn a blood to
> be immune to any dem dom obe ser card, even if that card wouldn't
> have an effect on him in the first place, sure.
>
> > and untap at the end of the action? Can a superior Resilient Mind'ed
>
> RM won't untap him at the end of the Govern action. RM is an action
> itself (to put the card on oneself). At superior, that action doesn't
> leave you tapped.
>
> > vamp pay to untap at the end of any action taken using the listed
> > disciplines (or using them in combat), even if that action doesn't
> > affect him (or even if he's not in the combat at all)? It would seem
>
> No.
>
> > so, since the card text is 'when another minion plays an action or
> > combat card' as opposed to 'when another minion plays an action or
> > combat card that would affect this minion'.
>
> RM is an action. It is put into play. In play, it gives a certain effect.
> The superior untaps the acting vampire when it is put into play. It
> doesn't untap him when he later burns a blood for immunity.
Good, that way seems much more reasonable than what I had originally thought!
-John Flournoy
Emmit Svenson
in combat with minion B, who has a Reslient Mind, does minion A still
get +1 strength and the ability to prevent damage? If so, does minion
B take extra damage from the extra strength, and can minion A prevent
minion B's hand damage?
How do the same principles apply to Typhonic Beast?
LSJ
> If minion A has superior Serpentis and plays Skin of the Adder while
> in combat with minion B, who has a Reslient Mind, does minion A still
> get +1 strength and the ability to prevent damage? If so, does minion
> B take extra damage from the extra strength, and can minion A prevent
> minion B's hand damage?
Skin of the Adder doesn't affect minion A's strength in any event.
Skin of the Adder: "this vampire's hand strikes inflict an additional
point of damage"
The Resilient Minded B doesn't take the extra damage from minion
A's hand strikes that he would take because of the Skin of the Adder,
no.
> How do the same principles apply to Typhonic Beast?
Typhonic Beast changes the minion's strength. Resilient Mind doesn't
change that.
>
>>Resilient Mind
>>+1 stealth action. [for] Put this card on the acting vampire. When
>>another minion plays an action or combat card that requires
>>Dementation [dem], Dominate [dom], Obeah [obe] or Serpentis [ser],
>>this vampire can burn 1 blood to be immune to the effects of that
>>card. [FOR] As above, and this vampire untaps at the end of this
>>action.
>
--
Joshua Duffin
> Emmit Svenson wrote:
> > If minion A has superior Serpentis and plays Skin of the Adder while
> > in combat with minion B, who has a Reslient Mind, does minion A still
> > get +1 strength and the ability to prevent damage? If so, does minion
> > B take extra damage from the extra strength, and can minion A prevent
> > minion B's hand damage?
>
> Skin of the Adder doesn't affect minion A's strength in any event.
>
> Skin of the Adder: "this vampire's hand strikes inflict an additional
> point of damage"
>
> The Resilient Minded B doesn't take the extra damage from minion
> A's hand strikes that he would take because of the Skin of the Adder,
> no.
This seems odd. Even though Skin of the Adder doesn't increase the
strength of the playing vampire, its effect in increasing the damage
of that vampire's hand strikes seems like an effect on the *playing*
vampire, not an effect on the Resilient Minded opposing vampire. It
makes sense to me that Tongue of the Serpent or The Jones can be
ignored by a Resilient Minded vampire, but Skin of the Adder doesn't
do anything to the Resilient Minded vampire - it just changes the
characteristics of the hand strikes of the Skinned vampire.
That is, it doesn't seem sensible to me to say that "this vampire has
+1 strength" isn't something that has an effect on the Resilient
Minded vampire and therefore he doesn't get to be immune to that
+strength, but "this vampire's hand strikes inflict +1 damage" *is* an
effect on the Resilient Minded vampire and he *can* become immune to
that +1 damage.
If Skin of the Adder were written "the opposing minion takes +1 damage
from this vampire's hand strikes", I would see your point. But it's
written as applying an effect to the playing vampire, not to the
opposing minion.
Josh