Fida'i - why would anyone ever use 'em?
ChickLewis
figure out how they could be used effectively. Requiring another assamite to
burn a blood in order to untap one Fida'i seems like such a huge disadvantage
that it wouldn't make sense to put 'em in your crypt. The closest I've been
able to come is that they might be useful is as blockers if you happen to have
a wake in your hand. But then, why not use that card instead to wake a bigger,
nastier intercepting vampire? Please enlighten me. Thanks in advance for the
inside scoop.
"Men choose as their prophets those who tell them that their hopes are true."
- Lord Dunsany
Chick...@aol.com
3930 Cody Road
Sherman Oaks, CA 91403 USA
day 818-718-1221
eve 818-784-8476
Wes
"ChickLewis" <chick...@aol.com> wrote:
> Hi, clever players.
Greetings O supplicant one.
> I've been thinking about Fida'i and haven't been able to
> figure out how they could be used effectively. Requiring another assamite
to
> burn a blood in order to untap one Fida'i seems like such a huge
disadvantage
> that it wouldn't make sense to put 'em in your crypt. The closest I've
been
> able to come is that they might be useful is as blockers if you happen to
have
> a wake in your hand. But then, why not use that card instead to wake a
bigger,
> nastier intercepting vampire? Please enlighten me. Thanks in advance for
the
> inside scoop.
I dunno. I was thinking of combining it with Heartblood of the Clan in an
attempt to influence vampires out faster.
Once the older vampire is out, spend as much blood as possible to untap the
wee 'uns and then do it again.
This seems terribly inefficient though...
Cheers,
WES
Jack Crow
Theoretically, hunting grounds + your vampires + rack or any other
such gameplay device could keep a number of them active.
You can feed them to Amam or Nephandus after they block and torp =) or
as talbot fodder. Sacrificial lamb gives you a blocker (torp it) then
are good for blood gain. Who cares if they amaranth or diablerize?
You can turn them into camarilla vampires with allegiance counters and
take some titles...heh, assamite vote deck!
I personally thought that Fida'i were a terribly unbalanced card until
I saw Aabbt Kindred which are certainly worse...
Much like the Aabbt Kindred, Fida'i are simply peons to be controlled
by a larger entity. Unfortunately, with so many "unblockable" action
cards, there is no reason to use any strategy that specifically uses
locations that can be affected by D actions or protecting a single
vampire.
Halcyan 2
>by a larger entity. Unfortunately, with so many "unblockable" action
>cards, there is no reason to use any strategy that specifically uses
>locations that can be affected by D actions or protecting a single
>vampire.
>
Well you can just use a Secure Haven on a single vampire. And for the
locations, besides Guard Duty (though it doesn't help with unblockable), Haunt
and Consecreation Rites can help a bit (and if all else fails you can DI the
Day Operation or Daring).
Halcyan 2
Halcyan 2
>locations, besides Guard Duty (though it doesn't help with unblockable),
>Haunt
>and Consecreation Rites can help a bit (and if all else fails you can DI the
>Day Operation or Daring).
Sorry for responding to my own post but I just thought of something cute.
You place a Secure Haven on someone (say, Arika). Then you place Haunt and
Consecration Rites on the Secure Haven! And for amusement value you have Arika
play a Guard Duty on the Secure Haven!
(You still have to watch out for Unnatural Disasters though).
Halcyan 2
Francois Alix
And what about influence two or three of them, and then put Tajdid in
play, and let's dance with adverse Vampires (inferior taste of death),
Fida'i diablerizes, ritual of the bitter rose, even without any vote ?
Cost two pool at worst...
Andreas
legbiter
Metro Underground.
Multiple Blood Dolls with or without sermons of Caine so that they
effectively untap themselves by paying a blood. Tastes of Vitae so
that they stay full.
Give them all Animalism and untap with Guard Dogs or Rat's warning
every time you get bled.
They all get votes for PS istanbul, tapped or not.
i think they could be the nucleus of rather a good rush-swarm deck.
qui/cel is NASTY.
Derek Ray
>Metro Underground.
>Multiple Blood Dolls with or without sermons of Caine so that they
>effectively untap themselves by paying a blood. Tastes of Vitae so
>that they stay full.
>Give them all Animalism and untap with Guard Dogs or Rat's warning
>every time you get bled.
>They all get votes for PS istanbul, tapped or not.
>
>i think they could be the nucleus of rather a good rush-swarm deck.
>qui/cel is NASTY.
Get out 4-5 Fidos along with Fatima or one of the other
auspex-Assamites, sit and wait for a turn or two with miscellaneous
pool gain and a bunch of Wakes/intercept. Untap all your Fidos, drop
Haven Uncovered, everyone jumps in and uses Flash/Taste of Death.
Vampire goes away - rest of Fidos bleed.
Repeat as necessary. Include Storage Annexes to save the Havens until
you're ready to go. Include Rack and HG to keep Fatima loaded.
You won't roast every vampire on the table, and it's still a bit
tricky to oust your prey, but cleverness has its own rewards. Maybe
just use Ur-Sluggy, who comes with superior Auspex and most
importantly, superior Dominate. "bleed for 1, block? conditioning?"
every turn, and then just Wake him constantly to defend. 20 wakes,
but not totally untidy.
-- Derek
Wes
"Derek Ray" <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> Get out 4-5 Fidos along with Fatima or one of the other
> auspex-Assamites, sit and wait for a turn or two with miscellaneous
> pool gain and a bunch of Wakes/intercept. Untap all your Fidos, drop
> Haven Uncovered, everyone jumps in and uses Flash/Taste of Death.
> Vampire goes away - rest of Fidos bleed.
>
> Repeat as necessary. Include Storage Annexes to save the Havens until
> you're ready to go. Include Rack and HG to keep Fatima loaded.
>
> You won't roast every vampire on the table, and it's still a bit
> tricky to oust your prey, but cleverness has its own rewards. Maybe
> just use Ur-Sluggy, who comes with superior Auspex and most
> importantly, superior Dominate. "bleed for 1, block? conditioning?"
> every turn, and then just Wake him constantly to defend. 20 wakes,
> but not totally untidy.
It still seems inefficient and has too many moving parts to me...
If you can be sure that every action a Fida'i takes is worth at least 1 pool
for you or at least 1 pool loss from your prey then I think using a Fida'i
action might be worth it. At least you're ultimately only paying 1 blood off
the elder to accomplish this.
Include an Inbase Discotek and a lot of Succulent Vitaes to make sure your
elder Assamite remains has enough iron in his bloodstream to support the
young'uns untaps.
Wow. These guys are really hard to use! I challenge anyone on the newsgroup
to build a Fida'i deck that works.
Cheers,
WES
Reyda
"ChickLewis" <chick...@aol.com>
> Hi, clever players. I've been thinking about Fida'i and haven't been able
to
> figure out how they could be used effectively. Requiring another assamite
to
> burn a blood in order to untap one Fida'i seems like such a huge
disadvantage
> that it wouldn't make sense to put 'em in your crypt. The closest I've
been
> able to come is that they might be useful is as blockers if you happen to
have
> a wake in your hand. But then, why not use that card instead to wake a
bigger,
> nastier intercepting vampire? Please enlighten me. Thanks in advance for
the
> inside scoop.
Hey, i've got a nice idea using a card i'm the only joke to play around
there : a lot of fidai, 1 or 2 assamites with sup. auspex, plus "Psychic
projection". You can give all your vamp +1 or +2 intercept until your next
untap phase =) that should refrain a lot of people playing politics or
light stealth bleed to dare facing your army of interceptors. Hell it's so
cool i'm just going to try it for tomorrow night's game !
reyda
Jon Stahler
> Repeat as necessary. Include Storage Annexes to save the Havens until
> you're ready to go. Include Rack and HG to keep Fatima loaded.
Havens? Bah! They're nice, but remember: the Fida'i are Assamites. If
you name one for a contract, you've named them all. Pretty nice in a rush
scenario. Of course it won't work with a clandestine contract, mind you,
unless you buff one of them up with a couple disciplines, but still...
Speaking of Contracts, anyone else catch the re-wording in Final Nights?
Before, (I assume legally, although I've been wrong many times before) it
could be played before you had any ready Assamites in play. All you had to
do was name an Assamite (not a READY Assamite). Now they've given the
stipulation that you have to name a ready Assamite. Oh well....just
something I noticed while perusing the reprints.
LSJ
>
>> Repeat as necessary. Include Storage Annexes to save the Havens until
>> you're ready to go. Include Rack and HG to keep Fatima loaded.
>
>Havens? Bah! They're nice, but remember: the Fida'i are Assamites. If
>you name one for a contract, you've named them all. Pretty nice in a rush
>scenario. Of course it won't work with a clandestine contract, mind you,
>unless you buff one of them up with a couple disciplines, but still...
No. Contract chooses an Assamite - not all Assamites with a particular
name. If you choose Al-Ashrad, then you've chosen a particular card.
If Al-Ashrad is burned and another comes into play, the Contract won't
transfer over to him. Same with Fida'i.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Derek Ray
wrote:
>"Derek Ray" <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote
>>
>> You won't roast every vampire on the table, and it's still a bit
>> tricky to oust your prey, but cleverness has its own rewards. Maybe
>> just use Ur-Sluggy, who comes with superior Auspex and most
>> importantly, superior Dominate. "bleed for 1, block? conditioning?"
>> every turn, and then just Wake him constantly to defend. 20 wakes,
>> but not totally untidy.
>
>It still seems inefficient and has too many moving parts to me...
>
>If you can be sure that every action a Fida'i takes is worth at least 1 pool
>for you or at least 1 pool loss from your prey then I think using a Fida'i
>action might be worth it. At least you're ultimately only paying 1 blood off
>the elder to accomplish this.
It's a real mess. I suppose it's possible to have the elder take a
Clandestine Contract/Provision of the Silsila action every so often
against some weenie target who totally lacks defense, in which case
you might want to put Thetmes in for the built-in weenie-torpor run.
Well, now wait a minute. Let's look at that briefly. Thetmes untaps
all the Fidos on his turn. Then drop a master-phase Contract on a
token weenie or other of your prey, preferably one without Fortitude
or any kind of prevent. Contract Rush, Immortal Grapple, strike for 1
agg hands, Provision - 3 cards, and Thetmes fills back up. Hmmm.
Then your Fidos can actually take bleed-for-1 actions, or you can even
use them to take a bunch of Heartblood of the Clan actions. Of
course, the combat required is a bit messy, and does sort of require
one Contract and Provision for every turn your Fidos go zoom. And
Thetmes doesn't have Auspex, so he can't defend very effectively.
Messy.
-- Derek
Derek Ray
<sta...@staff.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
>> Repeat as necessary. Include Storage Annexes to save the Havens until
>> you're ready to go. Include Rack and HG to keep Fatima loaded.
>
>Havens? Bah! They're nice, but remember: the Fida'i are Assamites. If
>you name one for a contract, you've named them all. Pretty nice in a rush
>scenario. Of course it won't work with a clandestine contract, mind you,
>unless you buff one of them up with a couple disciplines, but still...
No. They are each separate vampires, meaning that if you name one
Fido, it's only THAT Fido who can use the Contract. Just because
they're non-unique doesn't mean they're all the same. =)
Same with Embraces. =)
-- Derek
Jon Stahler
> >> you're ready to go. Include Rack and HG to keep Fatima loaded.
> >
> >Havens? Bah! They're nice, but remember: the Fida'i are Assamites. If
> >you name one for a contract, you've named them all. Pretty nice in a rush
> >scenario. Of course it won't work with a clandestine contract, mind
you,
> >unless you buff one of them up with a couple disciplines, but still...
>
> No. They are each separate vampires, meaning that if you name one
> Fido, it's only THAT Fido who can use the Contract. Just because
> they're non-unique doesn't mean they're all the same. =)
>
> Same with Embraces. =)
Fooey! Should've figured it'd be too good to be true! Oh well...
I'll have to inform my playgroup of that ruling. We've always gone with the
assumption that the named Assamite is always named. Makes them much less
threatening in some respects...
XZealot
> Well, now wait a minute. Let's look at that briefly. Thetmes untaps
> all the Fidos on his turn. Then drop a master-phase Contract on a
> token weenie or other of your prey, preferably one without Fortitude
> or any kind of prevent. Contract Rush, Immortal Grapple, strike for 1
> agg hands, Provision - 3 cards, and Thetmes fills back up. Hmmm.
>
> Then your Fidos can actually take bleed-for-1 actions, or you can even
> use them to take a bunch of Heartblood of the Clan actions. Of
> course, the combat required is a bit messy, and does sort of require
> one Contract and Provision for every turn your Fidos go zoom. And
> Thetmes doesn't have Auspex, so he can't defend very effectively.
Maybe even use a Sermon of Caine to refill your fidos once you have done
the Provision. Just for Kicks. :)
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr.
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
Cameron
> the Provision. Just for Kicks. :)
>
Crypt:
10x Fida'i
2x Bajazet al-Nasir
2x Fatima (or Melek?)
Deck:
18x Flash
7x Blur
15x Taste of Death
10x Blood Sweat
2x Heartblood of the Clan
2x Alamut
8x Haven Uncovered
9x Bums Rush
1x Tajdid
10x Sacrificial Lamb
4x Blood Tears of Kepfran
5x Cloak the Gathering
4x Celerity Discipline Card
the basic idea is to rush a vampire until it's dead, Sac Lamb is with
one of the fatties to pay for untap, and then bleed/heartblood with
the other Fidai. Might want to add :Loyalty to get the buggers
faster, and maybe other combat cards for the Taste of Deaths/Blood
Sweats, but the general concept is there, and besides remove to many
of the Sweats and I have to change the name.
Cameron
Gomi no Sensei
No Khabar: Community? It gives all Ass-mites +1 stealth on bleeds,
you know. Burnable, but with enough Fida'i out you only need it
for the one turn.
I guess you could throw in Computer Hackings and Psychic Veils, but
then it's more of a stealthbleed deck than a combat deck.
gomi
Halcyan 2
>you know. Burnable, but with enough Fida'i out you only need it
>for the one turn.
How about a Fida'i Fortitude deck? It doesn't matter if they don't untap
because they can Force of Will and/or Freak Drive!
Halcyan 2
Cameron
> Cameron <orcao...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Maybe even use a Sermon of Caine to refill your fidos once you have done
> >> the Provision. Just for Kicks. :)
> >>
> >DECK: Blood Sweat and Tears
> >
<snip list>
> I guess you could throw in Computer Hackings and Psychic Veils, but
> then it's more of a stealthbleed deck than a combat deck.
I was talking about this with Dave (a.k.a. Aramis) and came up with
using a big rusher and Provisions of Sleaze to untap the kids while
haveing them computer hack, and having the 4-cap cel/OBF give them all
psychic veils for +1 stealth. a :community would fit in that deck
well. although it has nasty moving parts.
as for adding for, that's a lot of masters for the punch, especially
as you'd have to untap them to get them out of torpor. (or have
someone else doing a lot of rescue actions... possiable with For, but
really sillily out of clan IMO)
Cameron
OM
reaction cards that do not tap the reacting vampire. New Banner of
Neutrality could reduce bleeds without tapping. Add a quietus master
to a Fida'i and it would not tap by playing Immaculate Vitae or Foul
Blood, which could really damage a predator/prey situationally.
These are about the best things I've found for them, but they won't
make it into my Assamite deck.
OM