"Fall of the Sabbat" and Gratiano?
Jozxyqk
at home -- lunarcity7 and monocleofclarity are down for awhile :( )
I haven't seen the full text of Fall of the Sabbat yet, but I've seen
Fall of the Camarilla.
But, if the Sabbat falls, is there still a Priscus subreferendum?
Does Gratiano effectively have 3 non-title votes?
It seems to me that, thematically, no Sabbat == no Priscus
subreferendum, but what's the case in the CCG?
Joshua Duffin
"Jozxyqk" <jod...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1ee3a0d5.04051...@posting.google.com...
The precedent with Gratiano as the only Priscus in play and then
becoming a Cardinal instead suggests that even after the Sabbat falls,
there is still a Priscus subreferendum in every referendum, and Gratiano
should still be able to cast his vote in it.
Thematically it doesn't make any sense, though, yeah. Oh well... :-)
Josh
the solution, of course, is to simply have gratiano become black hand,
in which case the sabbat cannot fall while he is ready!
(oh - if you haven't seen fall of the sabbat yet - it is exactly like
fall of the camarilla except that if there are any ready black hand
vampires, fall of the sabbat cannot be played.)
Halcyan 2
>> Fall of the Camarilla.
>>
>> But, if the Sabbat falls, is there still a Priscus subreferendum?
>> Does Gratiano effectively have 3 non-title votes?
>>
>> It seems to me that, thematically, no Sabbat == no Priscus
>> subreferendum, but what's the case in the CCG?
>
>The precedent with Gratiano as the only Priscus in play and then
>becoming a Cardinal instead suggests that even after the Sabbat falls,
>there is still a Priscus subreferendum in every referendum, and Gratiano
>should still be able to cast his vote in it.
>
>Thematically it doesn't make any sense, though, yeah. Oh well... :-)
>
>
>Josh
>
>the solution, of course, is to simply have gratiano become black hand,
>in which case the sabbat cannot fall while he is ready!
>
>(oh - if you haven't seen fall of the sabbat yet - it is exactly like
>fall of the camarilla except that if there are any ready black hand
>vampires, fall of the sabbat cannot be played.)
Not necessarily though. Even though there are no Prisci around (and maybe no
Sabbat vampires) while Gratiano is Independent/Camarilla, the concept of the
Sabbat sect still exists, which can explain why you still do a Prisci sub-ref.
If the Prisci sub-referendum is innately tied to the existence of the Sabbat
sect (which isn't entirely unreasonable), then the Fall of the Sabbat would
eliminate the Prisci sub-ref while it is in play.
Halcyan 2
LSJ
> But, if the Sabbat falls, is there still a Priscus subreferendum?
> Does Gratiano effectively have 3 non-title votes?
The referendum always occurs (whenever there is a referendum). If there
are no Priscus out, it usually ends up tied 0-0, but the presence of
Gratiano, even if there is no Sabbat, may change that.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
David Wilson
> > Does Gratiano effectively have 3 non-title votes?
>
> The referendum always occurs (whenever there is a referendum). If there
> are no Priscus out, it usually ends up tied 0-0, but the presence of
> Gratiano, even if there is no Sabbat, may change that.
>
Colin McGuigan
Translation: Yes, Gratiano still gets 1 vote in a Priscus sub-referendum
if Fall of the Sabbat has been played. Since it's impossible for other
Prisci to exist, this translates into three votes in the normal referendm.
--Colin McGuigan
LSJ
Answered above.
The referendum always occurs.
If there are no Priscus, it will typically tie 0-0.
Gratiano can change that.
Daneel
>
> Answered above.
>
> The referendum always occurs.
> If there are no Priscus, it will typically tie 0-0.
> Gratiano can change that.
It helps with the card if you put it into correct context and use the
right interpretation.
"There is no Sabbat" seems kind of big. In reality all the card does
is it changes the sect allegiance of all Sabbat Vampires to
Independent - no more, no less. The rules of the game apply unchanged
from there.
For example, since the rules state that only a Sabbat vampire can be
Archbishop, Fall of the Sabbat indirectly strips vampires of
archbishopry. A vampire who is Black Hand or Black Hand Seraph by
default (printed on the card) will continue to do so. Etc...
Bye,
Daneel
Daneel
>
> Answered above.
>
> The referendum always occurs.
> If there are no Priscus, it will typically tie 0-0.
> Gratiano can change that.
It helps with the card if you put it into correct context and use the
Joshua Duffin
"Daneel" <dan...@eposta.hu> wrote in message
news:a23a105e.04051...@posting.google.com...
> It helps with the card if you put it into correct context and use the
> right interpretation.
>
> "There is no Sabbat" seems kind of big. In reality all the card does
> is it changes the sect allegiance of all Sabbat Vampires to
> Independent - no more, no less. The rules of the game apply unchanged
> from there.
>
> For example, since the rules state that only a Sabbat vampire can be
> Archbishop, Fall of the Sabbat indirectly strips vampires of
> archbishopry. A vampire who is Black Hand or Black Hand Seraph by
> default (printed on the card) will continue to do so. Etc...
The Fall of the Sabbat cannot be played if there are any Black Hand
vampires ready. Of course, it's possible for Black Hand vamps to become
ready after the Sabbat has already Fallen, yeah. :-)
But I'm not sure that *all* it does is make all Sabbat vampires in play
be Independent while Fall of the Sabbat is in play. If the Sabbat sect
doesn't exist, for example, can Into the Fire be played? Does it simply
"fail to work" - or make its target become Sabbat and therefore become
Independent (if its target was a Camarilla vampire, for example)? LSJ?
Josh
guess the archons (or whoever) aren't so good at protecting the
camarilla
LSJ
> But I'm not sure that *all* it does is make all Sabbat vampires in play
> be Independent while Fall of the Sabbat is in play. If the Sabbat sect
> doesn't exist, for example, can Into the Fire be played? Does it simply
> "fail to work" - or make its target become Sabbat and therefore become
> Independent (if its target was a Camarilla vampire, for example)? LSJ?
Yes. The would-be Sabbat vampire is Independent (with an underlying,
inert, "Sabbat" designation). If Fall of the Sabbat is burned (by
ousting the controller, for example), the vampire's Sabbatness will be
exposed.
Jozxyqk
> "Joshua Duffin" <duff...@bls.gov> wrote:
>> But I'm not sure that *all* it does is make all Sabbat vampires in play
>> be Independent while Fall of the Sabbat is in play. If the Sabbat sect
>> doesn't exist, for example, can Into the Fire be played? Does it simply
>> "fail to work" - or make its target become Sabbat and therefore become
>> Independent (if its target was a Camarilla vampire, for example)? LSJ?
> Yes. The would-be Sabbat vampire is Independent (with an underlying,
> inert, "Sabbat" designation). If Fall of the Sabbat is burned (by
> ousting the controller, for example), the vampire's Sabbatness will be
> exposed.
Will the previously hidden-and-uncontestable Sabbat titles come back into
play at this point?
What happens if the Archbishop of Atlanta title is 'hidden' by Fall of the
Sabbat, and the Prince of Atlanta comes into play during this time? Is the
title "auto-yielded" (like the normal case for a titled vampire switching
sects)?
Gregory Stuart Pettigrew
> play at this point?
>
Yes, because the minions will meet the requirements of having their
titles.
> What happens if the Archbishop of Atlanta title is 'hidden' by Fall of the
> Sabbat, and the Prince of Atlanta comes into play during this time? Is the
> title "auto-yielded" (like the normal case for a titled vampire switching
> sects)?
>
Yes, same as always.
Daneel
... sorry for the double-posting.
Bye,
Daneel