Rules Q: Paulo de Castlle
Sten Düring
Cardname: Paulo de Castille
Cardtype: Vampire
Set: Third
Sect: Sabbat
Group: 4
Clan: Lasombra
Capacity: 4
Discipline: ani dom pot
Cardtext: Sabbat: When Paulo is put into play during your influence
phase, you may move 1 blood from him to any Lasombra in your
uncontrolled region.
So, I have transferred four blood to him, and following rule 7 in
the rules book he moves to the ready region. I more one blood from
him to Banjoko with four counters on him before Paulo entered play.
Does rule 7 force Banjoko to move to the ready region?
Compare
Cardname: Angela Preston
Cardtype: Vampire
Set: BL
Sect: Camarilla
Group: 2
Clan: Daughter of Cacophony
Capacity: 5
Discipline: for MEL PRE
Cardtext: Camarilla: Angela must burn 1 blood to attempt to block an
older vampire. You may tap Angela during your influence phase to untap
any other vampire.
and the ruling on
http://groups.google.se/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_thread/thread/fc76ffb8983a959/afaf2fd7582c6102?lnk=gst&q=angela+preston+end+of+influence&rnum=1&hl=en#afaf2fd7582c6102
that her special doesn't work when she is influenced because the
'at the end of the influence phase' is not 'during the influence phase'
(which is kind of weird for me because at the end of combat is still
considered to be during combat, see 6.4).
Sten
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LSJ
>
> Cardname: Paulo de Castille
> Cardtype: Vampire
> Set: Third
> Sect: Sabbat
> Group: 4
> Clan: Lasombra
> Capacity: 4
> Discipline: ani dom pot
> Cardtext: Sabbat: When Paulo is put into play during your influence
> phase, you may move 1 blood from him to any Lasombra in your
> uncontrolled region.
>
>
> So, I have transferred four blood to him, and following rule 7 in
> the rules book he moves to the ready region. I more one blood from
> him to Banjoko with four counters on him before Paulo entered play.
>
> Does rule 7 force Banjoko to move to the ready region?
Yes.
> Compare
>
> Cardname: Angela Preston
> Cardtype: Vampire
> Set: BL
> Sect: Camarilla
> Group: 2
> Clan: Daughter of Cacophony
> Capacity: 5
> Discipline: for MEL PRE
> Cardtext: Camarilla: Angela must burn 1 blood to attempt to block an
> older vampire. You may tap Angela during your influence phase to untap
> any other vampire.
>
> and the ruling on
> http://groups.google.se/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_thread/thread/fc76ffb8983a959/afaf2fd7582c6102?lnk=gst&q=angela+preston+end+of+influence&rnum=1&hl=en#afaf2fd7582c6102
>
> that her special doesn't work when she is influenced because the
> 'at the end of the influence phase' is not 'during the influence phase'
> (which is kind of weird for me because at the end of combat is still
> considered to be during combat, see 6.4).
Contrast: "when moved" vs. "during your influence".
The influence phase is effectively handled in two stages: the "during your
influence phase" stuff and then the "end of influence phase stuff" (which is
when uncontrolled minions are moved to the ready region if they have sufficient
influence).
Blooded Sand
>
> > that her special doesn't work when she is influenced because the
> > 'at the end of the influence phase' is not 'during the influence phase'
> > (which is kind of weird for me because at the end of combat is still
> > considered to be during combat, see 6.4).
>
> Contrast: "when moved" vs. "during your influence".
>
> The influence phase is effectively handled in two stages: the "during your
> influence phase" stuff and then the "end of influence phase stuff" (which is
> when uncontrolled minions are moved to the ready region if they have sufficient
> influence).
http://groups.google.se/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/dc7ef8c26161b4e3?hl=en&
In here you state specifically that moving into the ready region
happens at the end of the influence phase, which is distinct from
during the influence phase. Paulo states that when he is moved into
play DURING the influence phase, move a blood to another Lasombra.
(Emphasis mine). Where does the trigger for his ability occur then? If
he moves to the ready region at the end of your influence phase, then
as per the ruling above, it is no longer during the influence phase,
and the effect does not occur. However if the effect DOES occur, then
by definition and card text it has to be during the influence phase,
which allows al during influence phase effects to occur. Which is it?
Quote follows for those who do not want to follow thread links "
LSJ
Feb 25 2002, 1:36 pm
Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad
From: LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 06:36:03 -0500
Local: Mon, Feb 25 2002 1:36 pm
Subject: Re: Daughter of Cacophany questions
Sten During wrote:
> Ok, but if I influence up two vampires, one of which is Angela, then I
> get to choose in which order I do that, and tapping may be done anytime
> unless otherwise specified. After Angela comes into play, even though
> that is at the end of my influencephase there still has to be some
> influencephase left before vampire number two is influenced, and that
> tiny timewindow ought to be enough. Cornercase, yes I know.
Good effort, but still won't work. Once you reach the end of your
influence phase, you cannot do any "during your influence phase"
stuff."
LSJ
When he is moved into the ready region.
Card text.
Just like "during a political action" means "during the referendum" in all cases
except when it is clear that it means something else (like when generating
intercept).
> If
> he moves to the ready region at the end of your influence phase, then
> as per the ruling above, it is no longer during the influence phase,
> and the effect does not occur.
No. Both are parts of the influence phase.
There's the main (default) part, which is where the normal (or undifferentiated)
stuff happens (the stuff that isn't specifically about the second part).
> However if the effect DOES occur, then
> by definition and card text it has to be during the influence phase,
> which allows al during influence phase effects to occur. Which is it?
As stated. It occurs in the second part. After the normal stuff.