[LSJ] Amaranth + Taste?
Kevin M.
then take VampX's blood and equipment, then Taste of Vitae, and then have
the BH occurs? Or does the BH occur before the Taste can happen, e.g. only
if VampN survived the BH *then* can VampN use Taste?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_thread/thread/ea537d31b05e2f51/19121b2653a89a0b
seems to say that my primary thesis is correct, but I just wanted an
official word on this. Thanks!
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.myminicity.com/
floppyzedolfin
> My VampN sends VampX to torpor and stays ready. Can VampN play Amaranth,
> then take VampX's blood and equipment, then Taste of Vitae, and then have
> the BH occurs? Or does the BH occur before the Taste can happen, e.g. only
> if VampN survived the BH *then* can VampN use Taste?
>
> seems to say that my primary thesis is correct, but I just wanted an
> official word on this. Thanks!
>
> Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
> "Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
> you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
> "Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
> Please visit VTESville daily!http://vtesville.myminicity.com/
Blood Hunt, if any, is called right after Amaranth is played. Taste of
Vitae (or whatever other card) cannot be played before the Blood Hunt
is called. If the vampire survives the Blood Hunt, he may still play
Taste of Vitae.
Ira Fay
> My VampN sends VampX to torpor and stays ready. Can VampN play Amaranth,
> then take VampX's blood and equipment, then Taste of Vitae, and then have
> the BH occurs? Or does the BH occur before the Taste can happen, e.g. only
> if VampN survived the BH *then* can VampN use Taste?
>
> seems to say that my primary thesis is correct, but I just wanted an
> official word on this. Thanks!
You ask two opposite question, so I'm not sure what your "primary
thesis" is. You may also want to consider including card text,
because many times I find I answer my own questions that way.
Amaranth
Combat
Only usable by a vampire who can commit diablerie. Only usable when
the opposing vampire should go to torpor. Diablerize the opposing
vampire instead. Not usable by a vampire being burned or going to
torpor.
Taste of Vitae
Combat
Only usable at the end of a round of combat. Not usable by a vampire
being burned or going to torpor.
This vampire gains an amount of blood equal to the amount lost by the
opposing vampire to damage during this round. A vampire may play only
one Taste of Vitae each round.
And the only other thing is the rulebook:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/
6.5.5. Diablerie
Diablerie is the act of sending another vampire to Final Death by
drinking his blood. Only ready vampires can commit diablerie. Vampires
marked as Blood Cursed cannot commit diablerie. The vampire committing
diablerie is called the diablerist. Diablerie is resolved as follows:
1. All blood on the victim is moved to the diablerist. Blood in
excess of his capacity drains off as normal.
2. The diablerist may take any equipment on the victim.
3. The victim is burned (sent to his owner's ash heap). Any cards
and counters on him are also burned.
4. If the victim was older (had a higher capacity) than the
diablerist, the diablerist can be given a Discipline. His controller
may go through her library, ash heap and hand to get a master
Discipline card to put on the diablerist and then reshuffle her
library or draw back up to her hand size as necessary. This may
increase the diablerist's capacity by 1, but does not automatically
give the diablerist a blood to fill that new capacity.
5. If the victim was Red List, the diablerist may receive trophies
(see section 11).
The steps of diablerie are treated as a single unit. No effects can be
used to interrupt the diablerie; effects may be played either before
or after, as appropriate. After diablerie, a blood hunt may be called
on the diablerist.
So, even after looking at that, I'm not sure about the answer.
Clearly diablerie (steps 1-5) cannot be interrupted. But these two
sentences make me think:
Effects may be played either before or after, as appropriate. After
diablerie, a blood hunt may be called on the diablerist.
If effects can be played before or after, and after diablerie, a
referendum is called, maybe I can squeeze in a Taste of Vitae before
the vote. But I don't think so. I think that there should be a step
6, "A referendum is called to determine if the diablerist is blood
hunted (burned.)"
My $0.02,
Ira
John Flournoy
> So, even after looking at that, I'm not sure about the answer.
> Clearly diablerie (steps 1-5) cannot be interrupted. But these two
> sentences make me think:
> Effects may be played either before or after, as appropriate. After
> diablerie, a blood hunt may be called on the diablerist.
>
> If effects can be played before or after, and after diablerie, a
> referendum is called, maybe I can squeeze in a Taste of Vitae before
> the vote. But I don't think so. I think that there should be a step
> 6, "A referendum is called to determine if the diablerist is blood
> hunted (burned.)"
There are already effects that can be played after steps 1-5 but
before the Blood Hunt is called.
For instance, Rebirth by its card text falls in that timing window:
"Requires a Red List minion. Only usable when a diablerie action is
successful.
No blood hunt may be called, and this vampire untaps. A vampire can
play only one Rebirth each turn."
Subdued by the Blood similarly: "Play when a vampire diablerizes a
vampire of more than twice his or her capacity (before the blood hunt
referendum, if any)."
> My $0.02,
> Ira
-John Flournoy
Peter D Bakija
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_t...
> seems to say that my primary thesis is correct, but I just wanted an
> official word on this. Thanks!
I'm guessing the theory here is:
-Vampire A sends Vampire B to torpor.
-When Vampire B goes to torpor, the round and combat ends by
defenition.
-Taste and Amaranth *both* are played at the end of the round (as
Amaranth is played when a vampire goes to torpor, which is also the
end of the round).
-Because both Taste and Amaranth are played at the end of the round,
you can play either of them in any order, so you can Taste (as the
round is ended) and then Amaranth (as the round is ended).
I don't think you can play Amaranth and then Taste before the blood
hunt from the Amaranth, so if you topdeck the Taste off the Amaranth,
you are hosed until the Blood Hunt is over. But if you have the Taste
to play before the Amaranth, you are gold.
-Peter
LSJ
> On 6 mai, 23:08, "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote:
>> My VampN sends VampX to torpor and stays ready. Can VampN play Amaranth,
>> then take VampX's blood and equipment, then Taste of Vitae, and then have
>> the BH occurs? Or does the BH occur before the Taste can happen, e.g. only
>> if VampN survived the BH *then* can VampN use Taste?
>
> Vitae (or whatever other card) cannot be played before the Blood Hunt
> is called. If the vampire survives the Blood Hunt, he may still play
> Taste of Vitae.
Correct.
Peter D Bakija
> > Blood Hunt, if any, is called right after Amaranth is played. Taste of
> > Vitae (or whatever other card) cannot be played before the Blood Hunt
> > is called. If the vampire survives the Blood Hunt, he may still play
> > Taste of Vitae.
>
> Correct.
Can a vampire, in the appropriate situation, play a Taste and *then*
Amaranth?
-Peter
floppyzedolfin
> Can a vampire, in the appropriate situation, play a Taste and *then*
> Amaranth?
>
> -Peter
Yes. Cards played at the end of the round can be played at the end of
the round.
You can play those in any order :
Taste of Vitae
Street Cred
Amaranth*
Plus, if you meet the requirements, you can also play (still with no
timing preeminence of any card over another)
Disarm
Decapitate*
(* Once you've played Decapitate, you can no longer play Disarm or
Amaranth - there is no "opposing vampire" left. Same for Amaranth :
you cannot play Disarm or Decapitate once you've diablerised the
opponent )
It can be more interesting to play Taste of Vitae before Street Cred
(for instance, when your vampire has no blood left) or after (because
blood from the Taste would drain off). You can do any combination.
John Flournoy
> > Blood Hunt, if any, is called right after Amaranth is played. Taste of
> > Vitae (or whatever other card) cannot be played before the Blood Hunt
> > is called. If the vampire survives the Blood Hunt, he may still play
> > Taste of Vitae.
>
> Correct.
This clearly is not the case for "whatever other card", since there is
at least one card that can only be played after an Amaranth but before
the Blood Hunt is called. (Subdued by the Blood, specifically. Rebirth
can't be played after Amaranth, but hits the window between 'diablerie
action" and "blood hunt is called")
So is it a general ruling that cards cannot be played in between
Amaranth (and/or diablerie in general) and a Blood Hunt unless they
explicitly say that is when to play them?
-John Flournoy
LSJ
You have to say "unless card text says otherwise" after every statement. Unless
your audience is able to grasp the idea that that statement is assumed, of course.
Blooded Sand
May we state that that assumption is being assumed, and then mocve on
from there?
;)
John Flournoy
Yes, of course. What I was asking was for confirmation that the
existence of cards playable in that window is a matter of 'unless card
text says otherwise' and not "oh, not correct after all, needs to be
reviewed" or other possible revised answers.
-John