[rant] my oh my does abandonning the flesh suck...
vermillian
So yeah, I've got to get one of my own vampires burned in an
incredibly odd way. It can't be a result of a blood hunt, I suppose I
could burn myself with white phospherous grenades somehow, but, jesus!
Why couldn't I have gotton a decent rare like Gregory Winter, or
Malkavian Justicar? And I got another Pieter Van Dorn as my vampire
and another one of those !Tremere... what a waste. :)
So has anyone included AtF in their decks with any utility yet?
~SV
Damnans
vermillian wrote:
Yes, I have included it in a mid capacity !Malk and Malk Madman's Quill
deck (witih 12 The Call to bring out vampires quickly). Last Sunday Arika
burned my Dolphin Black with a Protect Thine Own, and I played an
Abandoning the Flesh. Note that I also play with 4 or 5 Storage Annex to
keep the Madman''s Quill and other cards (such as Abandoning the Flesh)
until they become necessary.
Greetings,
Damnans
Tobias
> what the hell were they thinking?
>
> So yeah, I've got to get one of my own vampires burned in an
> incredibly odd way. It can't be a result of a blood hunt, I suppose I
> could burn myself with white phospherous grenades somehow, but, jesus!
<snip>
"Incredible odd"?
How do you get that?
The text reads (as in ELDB): Only usable by a vampire being burned.
[dem] Remove this vampire from the game instead (diablerie, if any, is
still successful), and put this card into play. You may not play this
card if you already have an Abandoning the Flesh in play. You may tap
this card when a vampire with Dementation is bleeding to give that
vampire +1 bleed for the current action.
So if you are burned from combat, burned from getting diablerized, it
works. This is not so odd. And why would it not work from a blood
hunt?
Have I missed something?
Tobias
Deventer
Karol Magda
Umm, I have build Madman's Quill deck these days too. Mine uses
Kindred Spirit's
instead of The Calls hovewer, since I don't think that the Call is
that good in
agressive deck. Do you also play with effective managements in that
deck ? (otherwise I can not see need for 12 The Calls cards)
Karol
Karol Magda
Not yet, but I plan to create Malkavian Intercept combat (featuring
lots of goodies like Madman's Quill, The Call, Madness Network,
Muddled, Revelations, Monocle of Clarity, Blessing of Chaos, ...),
with combat consisting of .44 Magnum (or agg weapons, I had yet to
decide), swallowed by the night (maneveur) and deny (press).
Abandoning the Flesh would be good adition in this deck since I can
diablerize with low cap (burned low cap via blood hunt) via madness
network (if I had it in play) and then play abandoning. Another thing
is that some of my silly malks will end up in torpor (or will be
burned) when they block some real (intercept or rush) combat deck so
this card would be usefull in that way too.
Karol
Karol
Joshua Duffin
"Tobias" <tobiasop...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8aa6db00.02100...@posting.google.com...
> So if you are burned from combat, burned from getting diablerized, it
> works. This is not so odd. And why would it not work from a blood
> hunt?
He means that you can't play it with a vampire who's being burned
by a blood hunt referendum after committing diablerie. This is
because no action modifiers or reactions can be played during a
blood hunt referendum, since it's not an action.
You can play it if *your* vampire is the one getting diablerized.
Just not when a vampire is being burned as the result of a blood
hunt referendum.
Also note that it's not playable from torpor as a reaction, since
it doesn't say it is.
Josh
abandoning the mind
Jozxyqk
> Just not when a vampire is being burned as the result of a blood
> hunt referendum.
> Also note that it's not playable from torpor as a reaction, since
> it doesn't say it is.
Er... If your vampire is getting diablerized as an action, isn't he by
definition in torpor?
Joshua Duffin
"Jozxyqk" <jfeu...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote in message
news:OABo9.9264$hb4.2778@sccrnsc02...
You can be burned as an action without being in torpor - it doesn't
require being diablerized, only being burned. So you can play it
when someone calls Protect Thine Own on your Dem-having vampire, for
example, or Sacrifice, or during Anisa Marianna Lopez's action-ability.
Sadly, the most common way to get burned as an action is by diablerie
while in torpor, so it's not usable a lot of the time you might want
to use it, yeah. It is usable if you're getting burned in combat,
though, either by Amaranth or by aggravated damage.
Josh
fell into a burning ring of fire
LSJ
Right. But only because you've added "as an action" in there.
If he's getting diablerized via Amaranth, for example, he isn't.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Jozxyqk
>> definition in torpor?
> Right. But only because you've added "as an action" in there.
> If he's getting diablerized via Amaranth, for example, he isn't.
Yes, that was a deliberate addition.
Just to clarify, though, AtF *can't* be used by a vampire in reaction
to being diablerized as an action?
XZealot
"vermillian" <vermil...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f987c6cd.0210...@posting.google.com...
I love the Ethan Burrow idea of "Basil gets a Dementation skill card and
rushes". Once in combat he disguised weapons a White Phosphorus grenade and
burns himself.
--
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr.
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
LSJ
it's not playable from torpor as a reaction, since it doesn't say it is.
--
Damnans
Karol Magda wrote:
> Damnans <damna...@ono.com> wrote in message news:<3DA27EDB...@ono.com>...
> > vermillian wrote:
[...]
> > > So has anyone included AtF in their decks with any utility yet?
> >
> > Yes, I have included it in a mid capacity !Malk and Malk Madman's Quill
> > deck (witih 12 The Call to bring out vampires quickly). Last Sunday Arika
> > burned my Dolphin Black with a Protect Thine Own, and I played an
> > Abandoning the Flesh. Note that I also play with 4 or 5 Storage Annex to
> > keep the Madman''s Quill and other cards (such as Abandoning the Flesh)
> > until they become necessary.
>
> Umm, I have build Madman's Quill deck these days too. Mine uses
> Kindred Spirit's
> instead of The Calls hovewer, since I don't think that the Call is
> that good in
> agressive deck.
The first version of this deck had 12 Madman's Quill, but that was a problem because I
was forced to play them at inferior (since my prey can only have one MQ), which was
way to bleed uncontrollably for 3 or more pool, for my prey could deflect my bleeds
freely.
However, if I dicrease the amount of MQ (to 6, for instance), I can wait for the right
moment to launch a mass bleed attack without any fear of being deflected, since the
MQ's superior effect only increases the bleed of my vampires with Dementation against
my prey.
> Do you also play with effective managements in that
> deck ? (otherwise I can not see need for 12 The Calls cards)
No, I play with no Effective Management, but with Clotho's Gift, which have the same
effect. This way I keep my vampires active until they must bleed to death ;-)
Greetings,
Damnans
Xian
> incredibly odd way. It can't be a result of a blood hunt, I suppose I
> could burn myself with white phospherous grenades somehow, but, jesus!
dem/pro.
Body of Sun.
Wham, bam, thank you ma'am! It's not like you even need to do
anything to set it up...no need to drain blood off your vampire, works
at short and long...it's all good. The only downside is that only two
vampires have dem/pro inherently, and they're too big to burn for AtF.
Set it up with a couple of skill cards, I guess.
I'll work up a decklist and post it sooner or later.
Xian
Chris Berger
> dem/pro.
>
> Body of Sun.
>
> Wham, bam, thank you ma'am! It's not like you even need to do
> anything to set it up...no need to drain blood off your vampire, works
> at short and long...it's all good. The only downside is that only two
> vampires have dem/pro inherently, and they're too big to burn for AtF.
> Set it up with a couple of skill cards, I guess.
>
>
setup and only costs 1 pool, rather than the cost of a vampire.
vermillian
> vermil...@yahoo.com (vermillian) wrote in message news:<f987c6cd.0210...@posting.google.com>...
> > So yeah, I've got to get one of my own vampires burned in an
> > incredibly odd way. It can't be a result of a blood hunt, I suppose I
> > could burn myself with white phospherous grenades somehow, but, jesus!
>
> dem/pro.
>
> Body of Sun.
<snip>
> I'll work up a decklist and post it sooner or later.
Um... as its a unique, what else is your deck going to be doing?
I suppose you could go get insane mental patients with that new
!gangrel after deranging him into an !malk...
You could work some Lunatic Eruptions in there too...
Or you could work Gisella the Winnower and get your burned minions
back with necromancy...
~SV
~SV
Frederick Scott
>
> "Tobias" <tobiasop...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:8aa6db00.02100...@posting.google.com...
> > news:<f987c6cd.0210...@posting.google.com>...
> > > incredibly odd way. It can't be a result of a blood hunt, I
> > > suppose I could burn myself with white phospherous grenades
> > > somehow, but, jesus!
> >
> > diablerized, it works. This is not so odd. And why would it
> > not work from a blood hunt?
>
> He means that you can't play it with a vampire who's being burned
> by a blood hunt referendum after committing diablerie. This is
> because no action modifiers or reactions can be played during a
> blood hunt referendum, since it's not an action.
I suppose Mr. Screaming Vermillion can speak for himself if he likes
but if it were me talking, I would say the "getting burned in an
incredibly odd way" refers to the fact that the most normal way of
being burned doesn't allow the card to work. The _most_ normal would
be a vampire in torpor getting diablerized. Getting blood hunted by
referendum would probably count as the second most normal way - and
that doesn't work for AtF either.
It really does make a guy wonder what the designers could have had in
mind when they created the card. A) It wouldn't have been a
particularly fearsome card had they stuck in wondering to allow for
either of those scenarios (diablerized while already in torpor or
bloodhunted) ANYWAY; and B) Are we REALLY supposed to sit there and
hold onto this card until one of our minions gets diablerized to ever
have a chance at using it? If so, I want a HUGE advantage in exchange
for the opportunity costs I paid to play the stoopid thing. A
+1-bleed-per-turn unremovable permanent, though rather nice I suppose,
just doesn't seem worth it.
Anyone else feel this way?
And - of course - it seems like whenever you see a card like this that
just doesn't seem worth playing with, there's always that one EXTRA
limitation someone had to throw in just to make sure you can't find a
use for it. In this case, there's a limit to having more than one in
play - so don't be thinking of building a deck around getting your own
vampires burnt. Whoever's duty it is wallpaperize certain cards just
sometimes really goes that extra mile. (Shrug. At least it's an R1.)
Fred
Frederick Scott
> Last Sunday Arika burned my Dolphin Black with a Protect Thine Own,
> and I played an Abandoning the Flesh.
So, would you say the use you got from the card when you managed to
play it made it worthwhile to bother having in your deck?
Fred
Frederick Scott
>
> vermil...@yahoo.com (vermillian) wrote in message news:<f987c6cd.0210...@posting.google.com>...
> > So yeah, I've got to get one of my own vampires burned in an
> > incredibly odd way. It can't be a result of a blood hunt, I suppose I
> > could burn myself with white phospherous grenades somehow, but, jesus!
>
> dem/pro.
>
> Body of Sun.
>
> Wham, bam, thank you ma'am! It's not like you even need to do
> anything to set it up...no need to drain blood off your vampire, works
> at short and long...it's all good.
I would think it would have to be at short, wouldn't it? How is 1 agg
going to burn you if your opponent just waves?
> The only downside is that only two
> vampires have dem/pro inherently, and they're too big to burn for AtF.
> Set it up with a couple of skill cards, I guess.
You could _spend_ whatever extra blood they have on combat cards, you
know. How 'bout that: an actual use for Mythic Form - there's your
maneuver to close, I suppose.
You could also...I know this is radical but stay with me...use Minion
Tap before the combat so your Rachel or your Imogen won't have to much
blood to avoid burning. ;-) (Don't forget to keep enough to pay for the
BoS!)
Fred
Frederick Scott
> > So has anyone included AtF in their decks with any utility yet?
>
> I love the Ethan Burrow idea of "Basil gets a Dementation skill card and
> rushes". Once in combat he disguised weapons a White Phosphorus grenade and
> burns himself.
I would think Julius would be easier to get burnt. Just spend what blood he
has on some combat card and allow him to be struck by someone's hand.
Fred
Xian
<ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
[snip dem/pro Body of Sun]
>Yeah, but is the effect even worth it? A Laptop Computer takes just as little
>setup and only costs 1 pool, rather than the cost of a vampire.
Are you telling me that for some reason, I can't make a wacky trick
deck? :P
No, it's probaly not worth it, but it's funny. Combine with Soul Gem
if you like. :)
Xian
Xian
wrote:
[dem/pro Body of Sun]
>Um... as its a unique, what else is your deck going to be doing?
Bleeding? A lot? pro is simply a sideline, as I see it. Or you
could shoot for PRO Form of Mist/Earth Control. There's plenty of
stealth already in DEM, and PRO only helps it out.
Hell, I've got a DEM/OBF deck right now that I could simply take all
the obf out of and add in the PRO for Body of Sun...don't even need
PRO stealth.
>Or you could work Gisella the Winnower and get your burned minions
>back with necromancy...
That's just crazy talk.
Xian
Frederick Scott
> A Laptop Computer takes just as little
> setup and only costs 1 pool, rather than the cost of a vampire.
I wouldn't really compare AtF to a Laptop, though. There's a
huge difference between getting a specific vampire through to
bleed and getting any vampire you own with dementation through.
Depends on how many vampires you're playing with, of course. As
I always like the lots-of-little-guys types of strategies, the
difference seems pretty apparent to me. YMMV.
However, I agree that the pain of setting up AtF being worth the
difference in use is still pretty debatable.
Fred
Curevei
>mind when they created the card. A) It wouldn't have been a
>particularly fearsome card had they stuck in wondering to allow for
>either of those scenarios (diablerized while already in torpor or
>bloodhunted) ANYWAY; and B) Are we REALLY supposed to sit there and
>hold onto this card until one of our minions gets diablerized to ever
>have a chance at using it? If so, I want a HUGE advantage in exchange
>for the opportunity costs I paid to play the stoopid thing. A
>+1-bleed-per-turn unremovable permanent, though rather nice I suppose,
>just doesn't seem worth it.
Best guess: wanted another Dementation card and/or wanted to use the
Abandoning the Flesh title (which I assume comes from a RPG product), came up
with a basic mechanical concept based off of thematics, made the card "safe"
either due to lack of time to playtest, an earlier version was too strong, or
indifference to printing bad cards (unfortunately, a way too common attitude).
>Anyone else feel this way?
>
>And - of course - it seems like whenever you see a card like this that
>just doesn't seem worth playing with, there's always that one EXTRA
>limitation someone had to throw in just to make sure you can't find a
>use for it. In this case, there's a limit to having more than one in
>play - so don't be thinking of building a deck around getting your own
>vampires burnt. Whoever's duty it is wallpaperize certain cards just
>sometimes really goes that extra mile. (Shrug. At least it's an R1.)
When a card is overloaded with limitations, suggests to me that the basic
concept of the card's role is flawed.
Karol Magda
> Karol Magda wrote:
>
> > Damnans <damna...@ono.com> wrote in message news:<3DA27EDB...@ono.com>...
> > > vermillian wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > > > So has anyone included AtF in their decks with any utility yet?
> > >
> > > Yes, I have included it in a mid capacity !Malk and Malk Madman's Quill
> > > deck (witih 12 The Call to bring out vampires quickly). Last Sunday Arika
> > > burned my Dolphin Black with a Protect Thine Own, and I played an
> > > Abandoning the Flesh. Note that I also play with 4 or 5 Storage Annex to
> > > keep the Madman''s Quill and other cards (such as Abandoning the Flesh)
> > > until they become necessary.
> >
> > Umm, I have build Madman's Quill deck these days too. Mine uses
> > Kindred Spirit's
> > instead of The Calls hovewer, since I don't think that the Call is
> > that good in
> > agressive deck.
>
> The first version of this deck had 12 Madman's Quill, but that was a problem because I
> was forced to play them at inferior (since my prey can only have one MQ), which was
> way to bleed uncontrollably for 3 or more pool, for my prey could deflect my bleeds
> freely.
I usually don't worry about my prey's deflections. My first big bleed
usually travels around a table (prey deflect - grand prey deflect -
grandpredator deflect - predator deflect to grandpredator) so given
two such bleed usually ALL deflections of the table are used up. I
also play with misdirection/ anarch troublemaker to tap potential
deflectors in cases when I go for oust.
> However, if I dicrease the amount of MQ (to 6, for instance), I can wait for the right
> moment to launch a mass bleed attack without any fear of being deflected, since the
> MQ's superior effect only increases the bleed of my vampires with Dementation against
> my prey.
I only play with 6 MQ (in 70 cards deck, that is) and I am sometimes
forced to play it at inferior for various reasons.
> > Do you also play with effective managements in that
> > deck ? (otherwise I can not see need for 12 The Calls cards)
>
> No, I play with no Effective Management, but with Clotho's Gift, which have the same
> effect. This way I keep my vampires active until they must bleed to death ;-)
Interesting, how long does it take to set up ? Also don't you have
problems that both your prey and predator block your Call's (at least
that was problem I encountered when I played with Call's in my MQ
deck)
Karol
Tobias
> Xian wrote:
> >
> > vermil...@yahoo.com (vermillian) wrote in message news:<f987c6cd.0210...@posting.google.com>...
> > > So yeah, I've got to get one of my own vampires burned in an
> > > incredibly odd way. It can't be a result of a blood hunt, I suppose I
> > > could burn myself with white phospherous grenades somehow, but, jesus!
> >
> > dem/pro.
> >
> > Body of Sun.
dem/VIC Breath of the Dragon - Little Tailor of Prague.
dem/THA Burst of Sunlight - William Biltmore, Ian Forestal
Still not easy
Tobias
Deventer
Damnans
Frederick Scott wrote:
Not sure yet. But one thing is clear: Malk. and !Malk bleeders are weak
in combat, and Abandoning the Flesh is a gives you at least a little
advantage
when losing a vampire.
Greetings,
Damnans
Damnans
Karol Magda wrote:
> Damnans <damna...@ono.com> wrote in message news:<3DA2F75B...@ono.com>...
> > Karol Magda wrote:
[...]
> > > Umm, I have build Madman's Quill deck these days too. Mine uses
> > > Kindred Spirit's
> > > instead of The Calls hovewer, since I don't think that the Call is
> > > that good in
> > > agressive deck.
> >
> > The first version of this deck had 12 Madman's Quill, but that was a problem because I
> > was forced to play them at inferior (since my prey can only have one MQ), which was
> > way to bleed uncontrollably for 3 or more pool, for my prey could deflect my bleeds
> > freely.
>
> I usually don't worry about my prey's deflections. My first big bleed
> usually travels around a table (prey deflect - grand prey deflect -
> grandpredator deflect - predator deflect to grandpredator) so given
> two such bleed usually ALL deflections of the table are used up. I
> also play with misdirection/ anarch troublemaker to tap potential
> deflectors in cases when I go for oust.
I will also have to think about including those master cards ;-)
[...]
> > > Do you also play with effective managements in that
> > > deck ? (otherwise I can not see need for 12 The Calls cards)
> >
> > No, I play with no Effective Management, but with Clotho's Gift, which have the same
> > effect. This way I keep my vampires active until they must bleed to death ;-)
>
> Interesting, how long does it take to set up ?
Uhm...6 or more turns I think (not sure). But that decks is still in a test period ;-)
> Also don't you have
> problems that both your prey and predator block your Call's (at least
> that was problem I encountered when I played with Call's in my MQ
> deck)
No, because mine is a 90 cards deck (not 70, like yours), and I have room for
lots of stealth cards.
Greetings,
Damnans
Karol Magda
It's more about percentages than about actual numbers I think. 30
percent of my deck (24 cards) are pure stealth cards. (which are
playable with Call)Additional six cards are of stealth and bleed type
(confusion). Do you play
with even more stealth ?
Karol
Damnans
Karol Magda wrote:
[...]
> > > Also don't you have
> > > problems that both your prey and predator block your Call's (at least
> > > that was problem I encountered when I played with Call's in my MQ
> > > deck)
> >
> > No, because mine is a 90 cards deck (not 70, like yours), and I have room for
> > lots of stealth cards.
>
> It's more about percentages than about actual numbers I think. 30
> percent of my deck (24 cards) are pure stealth cards. (which are
> playable with Call)Additional six cards are of stealth and bleed type
> (confusion). Do you play
> with even more stealth ?
Well, I play with 25 stealth cards, 3 Forgotten Labyrinth, 3 Confusion, and 2 Psychic Veil.
Psychic Veil can be very useful ;-)
And remember that most of my actions have a default +1 stealth.
Greetings,
Damnans
Xian
> Xian wrote:
> >
> >
> > Body of Sun.
>
> I would think it would have to be at short, wouldn't it? How is 1 agg
> going to burn you if your opponent just waves?
Very true. 1 agg does not generally burn you. :)
Luckily, I tend to see a lot of "hands for 1". Hopefully this is less
common elsewhere.
> > The only downside is that only two
> > vampires have dem/pro inherently, and they're too big to burn for AtF.
> > Set it up with a couple of skill cards, I guess.
>
> You could _spend_ whatever extra blood they have on combat cards, you
> know. How 'bout that: an actual use for Mythic Form - there's your
> maneuver to close, I suppose.
Haha! Maybe just multiple Claws? Useful when you don't want to burn
your vampire *and* when you want to.
> You could also...I know this is radical but stay with me...use Minion
> Tap before the combat so your Rachel or your Imogen won't have to much
> blood to avoid burning. ;-) (Don't forget to keep enough to pay for the
> BoS!)
I dunno, that's crazy talk. :) I really think that skill cards,
while a little more fragile, is a little more cost-effective than
using Rachel/Imogen. Well, unless they get the Soul Gem, and...hmm.
Xian
(also, thanks for the SJ tips, Fred)
Darky
> I dunno, that's crazy talk. :) I really think that skill cards,
> while a little more fragile, is a little more cost-effective than
> using Rachel/Imogen. Well, unless they get the Soul Gem, and...hmm.
>
> Xian
> (also, thanks for the SJ tips, Fred)
I think soulgem wouldn't work, since abandoning the flesh states:
Only usable by a vampire being burned -
"Remove this vampire from the game instead.."
So I think the vampire is never actually burned (which is the prereq
of soulgem)because of the "being" in the first line.
-D
Karol Magda
The problem is that in last seven games I played (not with this deck
but as a
whole) I always sat in such position that both my prey and my predator
were
capable to generate at least +2 intercept quite regularly. Therefore
any non directed action required at least one stealth card to get
through and every bleed required anything from 1-3 cards to get
through. (when playing that MQ deck) Your stealth supply goes out
quickly in such conditions.
Karol
LSJ
Correct.
jeroen rombouts
"vermillian" <vermil...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f987c6cd.0210...@posting.google.com...
> what the hell were they thinking?
>
> incredibly odd way. It can't be a result of a blood hunt, I suppose I
> could burn myself with white phospherous grenades somehow, but, jesus!
>
But the card still sucks :-)
J
Joshua Duffin
"jeroen rombouts" <jeroen.rom...@pandora.be> wrote in message
news:ehep9.154997$8o4....@afrodite.telenet-ops.be...
Archon Investigation would only let you play Abandoning the Flesh
if you didn't control the acting vampire. But then your vampire
wouldn't be the one getting Archon Investigated. :-) (Abandoning
is a reaction or combat card; as a reaction you'd have to play it
when your vamp is burned during someone else's action. I don't
think you can be AIed in combat, but if you could, maybe you could
play it as a combat card then? But I've never heard of anyone
even trying to play AI during combat. LSJ, is it possible?)
> But the card still sucks :-)
Yeah, it seems pretty weak to me so far.
Josh
abandoning the fleshcraft
Damnans
Karol Magda wrote:
> Damnans <damna...@ono.com> wrote in message news:<3DA4508D...@ono.com>...
> > Karol Magda wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > > > > Also don't you have
> > > > > problems that both your prey and predator block your Call's (at least
> > > > > that was problem I encountered when I played with Call's in my MQ
> > > > > deck)
> > > >
> > > > No, because mine is a 90 cards deck (not 70, like yours), and I have room for
> > > > lots of stealth cards.
> > >
> > > It's more about percentages than about actual numbers I think. 30
> > > percent of my deck (24 cards) are pure stealth cards. (which are
> > > playable with Call)Additional six cards are of stealth and bleed type
> > > (confusion). Do you play
> > > with even more stealth ?
> >
> > Well, I play with 25 stealth cards, 3 Forgotten Labyrinth, 3 Confusion, and 2 Psychic Veil.
> >
> > Psychic Veil can be very useful ;-)
> >
> > And remember that most of my actions have a default +1 stealth.
>
> The problem is that in last seven games I played (not with this deck
> but as a
> whole) I always sat in such position that both my prey and my predator
> were
> capable to generate at least +2 intercept quite regularly.
You should come to Palma de Mallorca and play with us.
Your deck would work much better, and would need less
stealth cards ;-P
> Therefore
> any non directed action required at least one stealth card to get
> through and every bleed required anything from 1-3 cards to get
> through. (when playing that MQ deck) Your stealth supply goes out
> quickly in such conditions.
Yes, I know, unless you play with many Elder Impersonation or Signet
of King Saul, for instance ;-)
Greetings,
Damnans
LSJ
> I don't
> think you can be AIed in combat, but if you could, maybe you could
> play it as a combat card then? But I've never heard of anyone
> even trying to play AI during combat. LSJ, is it possible?)
You cannot be AI'ed in combat.
jeroen rombouts
"Joshua Duffin" <jtdu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ao4458$it887$1...@ID-121616.news.dfncis.de...
>
> "jeroen rombouts" <jeroen.rom...@pandora.be> wrote in message
> news:ehep9.154997$8o4....@afrodite.telenet-ops.be...
> >
> > "vermillian" <vermil...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:f987c6cd.0210...@posting.google.com...
> > > what the hell were they thinking?
> > >
> > > So yeah, I've got to get one of my own vampires burned in an
> > > incredibly odd way. It can't be a result of a blood hunt, I suppose I
> > > could burn myself with white phospherous grenades somehow, but, jesus!
> > >
> > incredibly odd? We see a lot of Archon Investigation around here.
>
> Archon Investigation would only let you play Abandoning the Flesh
> if you didn't control the acting vampire. But then your vampire
> wouldn't be the one getting Archon Investigated. :-) (Abandoning
> is a reaction or combat card; as a reaction you'd have to play it
> when your vamp is burned during someone else's action.
Oops. Missed that part. It's even worse than I tought.
Jeroen
Joshua Duffin
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
news:3DA59CC6...@white-wolf.com...
> Joshua Duffin wrote:
> > I don't
> > think you can be AIed in combat, but if you could, maybe you could
> > play it as a combat card then? But I've never heard of anyone
> > even trying to play AI during combat. LSJ, is it possible?)
>
> You cannot be AI'ed in combat.
Is this because the acting vampire isn't considered to be "attempting
to bleed you for more than 3 pool" during a combat resulting from
being blocked? I'd think it might be possible since the attempt to
bleed for more than 3 still exists (though it is not currently
succeeding) during the combat resulting from block - the action could
be continued with Form of Mist or Mirror Image.
Is AI only usable when a bleed is "currently succeeding" for 3 or
more?
Josh
not that there's usually any reason to want to AI somebody during
combat
LSJ
>
> "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
> news:3DA59CC6...@white-wolf.com...
> > Joshua Duffin wrote:
> > > I don't
> > > think you can be AIed in combat, but if you could, maybe you could
> > > play it as a combat card then? But I've never heard of anyone
> > > even trying to play AI during combat. LSJ, is it possible?)
> >
> > You cannot be AI'ed in combat.
>
> Is this because the acting vampire isn't considered to be "attempting
> to bleed you for more than 3 pool" during a combat resulting from
> being blocked?
... or during any other combat, right.
> Is AI only usable when a bleed is "currently succeeding" for 3 or
> more?
Depends on how you define the new "currently succeeding" term.
The obvious definition of "currently succeeding" would include
the period after burning a Spying Mission (which is a period
in which AI cannot be played).
AI can be played as described on card text. Creating other
terms to attempt to describe that same time is superfluous
(unless you find some other term that is more succinct or
easy to comprehend, of course).
Joshua Duffin
> AI can be played as described on card text. Creating other
> terms to attempt to describe that same time is superfluous
> (unless you find some other term that is more succinct or
> easy to comprehend, of course).
Heh. Its card text doesn't explain "attempting to bleed", though.
So I don't know without asking whether a vampire in combat is
still "attempting to bleed". Apparently the answer is, it's not.
It would be again "attempting to bleed" if it continued the action
with Form of Mist, but would immediately return to "not" if the
opposing vampire played Psyche to restart combat.
Fair enough. :-)
Josh
attempting to work
LSJ
>
> "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
> news:3DA5AF0B...@white-wolf.com...
>
> > AI can be played as described on card text. Creating other
> > terms to attempt to describe that same time is superfluous
> > (unless you find some other term that is more succinct or
> > easy to comprehend, of course).
>
> Heh. Its card text doesn't explain "attempting to bleed", though.
Right. Because the English serves.
It also doesn't explain "more than 3". :-)
> So I don't know without asking whether a vampire in combat is
> still "attempting to bleed". Apparently the answer is, it's not.
This should be in the class of things that are knowable without asking.
But, as always, feel free to ask. I've no problem with answering.
> It would be again "attempting to bleed" if it continued the action
> with Form of Mist, but would immediately return to "not" if the
> opposing vampire played Psyche to restart combat.
>
> Fair enough. :-)
Right.
Xian
> Darky wrote:
> > So I think the vampire is never actually burned (which is the prereq
> > of soulgem)because of the "being" in the first line.
>
> Correct.
D'oh. Once again, a brilliant idea sunk by pesky card text.
Xian
Karol Magda
I would try to come next year to your Conclave tournament :)
> > Therefore
> > any non directed action required at least one stealth card to get
> > through and every bleed required anything from 1-3 cards to get
> > through. (when playing that MQ deck) Your stealth supply goes out
> > quickly in such conditions.
>
> Yes, I know, unless you play with many Elder Impersonation or Signet
> of King Saul, for instance ;-)
Signet of the King Saul would not always work, increasing numbers of
elder impersonations is GOOD idea.
Karol