Point of Patrizia Giovanni deck
legb...@my-deja.com
Or with her nails she'll dig it up again."
Deck concept, anyway. Last night i had a dream about Assamites with cute
little pet doggies. i thought of ways for them to get the doggies -
Heidelberg castle, clan impersonation sorta thing. Then this morning it
struck me that Patrizia Giovanni is the key to making an effective
Assamite combat deck that doesn't care about SCE, cos she likes to dig up
doggies.
Key cards:
Usual Assamite combat stuff - celerity manouevres and additional strikes,
Quietus unpreventable and aggravated ranged strikes, Tastes of Vitae.
Dog packs
Heidelberg Castle, Germany
Patrizia Giovanni
Ghoul Retainer
Scary weapons, maybe some disguised weapons.
Scary Assamites
Psyches and contracts.
Deals with the Devil/Barrens/Dreams/Fragments
Sacrifical Lamb
Whispers of the Dead, maybe. Trade a gun in the graveyard for the Dog
pack in your hand. Then dig up the doggies.
BUCKETS of Infernal Familiars. Move them on to somebody expendable when
they get too countery.
The great thing is that no clan impersonation is required for this to
work [so you can still use contracts and do the other cool assamite
stuff], and you can't DI Patrizia's ability - at least i think you can't
- because recruiting a retainer in the graveyard is not a DI-able action
[i think - LSJ?].
If you could somehow get superior Obtenebration on an assamite - probably
using one discipline card and the camarilla vitae slave [recruited by
Patrizia] you could Shadow step for:
A combat set at long range
in which the opposing minion can't play SCE [dog pack]
and can't prevent the damage [blood sweats/additional strikes/
environmental damage from ghoulish weapons]
and gets burned [tastes of death].
But even without that it's a pretty attractive concept! i suspect pulling
all that off would use up so many slots that there wouldn't be room for
voting - but maybe Volker could make an appearance and then you could
call an anathema, or [balls of steel] go for a bit of graverobbing via
Thetmes, and just rely on someone else bringing out a prince who is then
going to call a few anathemas for you once s/he has been, erm, persuaded
to join your team.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Noal McDonald
> Then this morning it struck me that Patrizia Giovanni
> is the key to making an effective Assamite combat deck
> that doesn't care about SCE, cos she likes to dig up
> doggies.
Are you certain? I wouldn't think that just because a Dog Pack is in
the ash heap, that Patrizia can disregard clan requirements to put it
into play.
Noal
--
"What you cannot enforce, do not command."
-- Socrates
legb...@my-deja.com
Noal McDonald <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> legb...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > Then this morning it struck me that Patrizia Giovanni
> > is the key to making an effective Assamite combat deck
> > that doesn't care about SCE, cos she likes to dig up
> > doggies.
>
> Are you certain? I wouldn't think that just because a Dog Pack is in
> the ash heap, that Patrizia can disregard clan requirements to put it
> into play.
Actually no, i'm not certain. i originally intended to entitle the thread
deck idea or possibly rules query. So if the clan requirement stays then
the idea won't work. Bah.
legb...@my-deja.com
Noal McDonald <dhar...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> legb...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > Then this morning it struck me that Patrizia Giovanni
> > is the key to making an effective Assamite combat deck
> > that doesn't care about SCE, cos she likes to dig up
> > doggies.
>
> Are you certain? I wouldn't think that just because a Dog Pack is in
> the ash heap, that Patrizia can disregard clan requirements to put it
> into play.
Yeah, actually i think you are right - it says EMPLOY on Patrizia's card.
Alright, go for cheap Giovanni and recruit Ambrosius. The trick is the
same, but there's an extra step.
LSJ
> Deck concept, anyway. Last night i had a dream about Assamites with cute
> little pet doggies. i thought of ways for them to get the doggies -
> struck me that Patrizia Giovanni is the key to making an effective
> Assamite combat deck that doesn't care about SCE, cos she likes to dig up
> doggies.
>
> work [so you can still use contracts and do the other cool assamite
> stuff], and you can't DI Patrizia's ability - at least i think you can't
> - because recruiting a retainer in the graveyard is not a DI-able action
> [i think - LSJ?].
Almost right, but probably not what you meant:
DI only works against minion (library-non-master) cards, not special
abilities.
But then, after the successful action, someone could DI the retainer card,
since it is then being played (just as someone can SR the card Bindusara
gets with his special ability action [RTR 08-JUL-1996]).
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
X_Ze...@email.msn.com
So, you are saying that Patrizia Giovanni can pull a dog pack out of the
ash heap?
Thanks,
Norman S. Brown Jr.
X_Zealot
Archon of the Swamp
James Coupe
> Yeah, actually i think you are right - it says EMPLOY on Patrizia's card.
Just clan impersonate her first, then.
This also gives you the option, if you play a number of the cards, to use
the clan impersonations to just not bother with the ash heap. With
regards the payment, however, "she" still plays the employment cost as
normal. Presumably, the Methuselah has to too....
--
James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D
"I know my ex-boyfriend lies. Oh, he does it every time. It's just his
permanent disguise, yeah, yeah, but he's drop dead gorgeous."
Frederick Scott
>legb...@my-deja.com wrote:
>> Deck concept, anyway. Last night i had a dream about Assamites with cute
>> little pet doggies. i thought of ways for them to get the doggies -
>> Heidelberg castle, clan impersonation sorta thing. Then this morning it
>> struck me that Patrizia Giovanni is the key to making an effective
>> Assamite combat deck that doesn't care about SCE, cos she likes to dig up
>> doggies.
>>
>> The great thing is that no clan impersonation is required for this to
>> work [so you can still use contracts and do the other cool assamite
>> stuff], and you can't DI Patrizia's ability - at least i think you can't
>> - because recruiting a retainer in the graveyard is not a DI-able action
>> [i think - LSJ?].
>
>Almost right, but probably not what you meant:
>DI only works against minion (library-non-master) cards, not special
>abilities.
>But then, after the successful action, someone could DI the retainer card,
>since it is then being played (just as someone can SR the card Bindusara
>gets with his special ability action [RTR 08-JUL-1996]).
Er, are you confusing Patrizia with Carlotta? I don't think Legbiter
is proposing to recover the retainer card from the graveyard and then
play it from his hand in a separate action. He's proposing to retain
"directly" from the graveyard using Patrizia's special ability. The
question is whether this action constitutes "playing a retainer card"
and thus is DI-able. And for that matter (and much more to the point in
my mind), do the clan or discipline requirements of a retainer count for
Patrizia's ability to recruit from the graveyard? If not, there's lot of
interesting stuff she might do.
I'm actually not sure why the DI question matters that much. Just wait
until next turn and do it again. Sounds like it would mostly be a waste
of a good DI card.
Fred
James Coupe
> Er, are you confusing Patrizia with Carlotta?
I doubt it.
> I don't think Legbiter
> is proposing to recover the retainer card from the graveyard and then
> play it from his hand in a separate action.
Neither is Bindusara, the analagous situation from which this ruling is
derived. You fetch the card and put it in play. Here, you get a card
from your ash-heap and employ it. You can SR the putting in play of
Bindusara, so you can DI the employing of the retainer.
> He's proposing to retain
> "directly" from the graveyard using Patrizia's special ability. The
> question is whether this action constitutes "playing a retainer card"
> and thus is DI-able.
From the Bindusara ruling, yes, it does - as that consitutes playing a
master card.
> And for that matter (and much more to the point in
> my mind), do the clan or discipline requirements of a retainer count for
> Patrizia's ability to recruit from the graveyard?
Yes. She employs a retainer. When you "employ" you are performing a
defined action, and so follow the rules for it.
> I'm actually not sure why the DI question matters that much. Just wait
> until next turn and do it again. Sounds like it would mostly be a waste
> of a good DI card.
If it means your vampire survives for an extra turn (since you having just
been rushed by the vampire who got the Dog Pack heidelburged over from the
clan impersonated patrizia), it could be game winning.
James Coupe
> So, you are saying that Patrizia Giovanni can pull a dog pack out of the
> ash heap?
No - unless she was aalready Impersonated to Gangrel.
However, were she to bring one out, you could DI it.
LSJ
> > > and you can't DI Patrizia's ability [...] [i think - LSJ?].
> > Almost right, but probably not what you meant:
> > But then someone could DI the retainer card,
> > since it is then being played (just as someone can SR the card
> > Bindusara gets with his special ability action [RTR 08-JUL-1996]).
>
> ash heap?
No, I was answering the question legbiter posed: "you can't DI Patrizia's
ability ... right?".
The answer to tht is as given above.
I didn't really evaluate the premise "Patrizia can employ a Dog Pack from
the ash heap", unfortunately - I was looking only at the question posed.
As others (incl. Leggy) have indicated in other messages in this thread,
Patrizia's "employ" templating indicates that she has to meet the normal
requirements of "employ"ing the retainer, including clan requirements,
so cannot employ the Dog Pack - whether from the hand or from the ash heap.
(Similarly, a non-Assamite cannot use Disguised Weapon to equip with
a Kali's Fang).
Sorry for the oversight.
Justicar
But Ambrosius could move a Dog Pack onto Patrizia...
Justicar.
madma...@my-deja.com
> Patrizia's "employ" templating indicates that she has to meet the
normal requirements of "employ"ing the retainer, including clan
requirements, so cannot employ the Dog Pack - whether from the hand or
from the ash heap. (Similarly, a non-Assamite cannot use Disguised
Weapon to equip with a Kali's Fang).
> LSJ
LSJ:
Could Ambrosius pull a Dog Pack from the ash heap and place it on any
vampire you control?? His text says: "He can take an action to allow
you to move a retainer from your ash heap to a ready vampire you
control. "
Thanks in advance,
Madman
LSJ
> LSJ:
>
> > Patrizia's "employ" templating indicates that she has to meet the
> normal requirements of "employ"ing the retainer, including clan
> requirements, so cannot employ the Dog Pack - whether from the hand or
> from the ash heap. (Similarly, a non-Assamite cannot use Disguised
> Weapon to equip with a Kali's Fang).
> > LSJ
>
> LSJ:
>
> Could Ambrosius pull a Dog Pack from the ash heap and place it on any
> vampire you control?? His text says: "He can take an action to allow
> you to move a retainer from your ash heap to a ready vampire you
> control. "
Yes.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/