Contesting a Title with Hardestadt
Xexyz
previously, about contesting a title with Hardestadt. Search didn't
yield any results.
1. Hardestadt is in torpor. The predator of Hardestadt brings out
Arika during her influence phase. During Hardestadt's controller's
untap phase Hardestadt must yield his Inner Circle title because
vampires in torpor can't contest titles, correct?
2. Hardestadt is in torpor and Arika is in play. During Arika's
controller's untap phase Arika must yield her Inner Circle title
because of Hardestadt's text, even though he's in torpor, correct?
LSJ
> 1. Hardestadt is in torpor. The predator of Hardestadt brings out
> Arika during her influence phase. During Hardestadt's controller's
> untap phase Hardestadt must yield his Inner Circle title because
> vampires in torpor can't contest titles, correct?
Correct.
Also note that Arika's title becomes contested (with Hardestadt) as soon as she
comes into play. Then, after Hardestadt yields, Arika will win the contest on
her untap phase.
> 2. Hardestadt is in torpor and Arika is in play. During Arika's
> controller's untap phase Arika must yield her Inner Circle title
> because of Hardestadt's text, even though he's in torpor, correct?
Correct.
Juggernaut1981
LSJ: Is the end result of this sequence of plays...
a) Hardestat loses his title, Arika regains hers
b) Hardestat regains his title when he enters the ready region, Arika
loses hers immediately
c) Hardestat and Arika both lose their titles
LSJ
d) Arika loses her titles when she yields it. Hardestadt regains his title when
he wins the contest (i.e., on his next untap phase).
Bartłomiej "veyDer" Rudzki
Did I miss anything or should it be:
e) Nothing happens, because (as per the rulebook in KoT starters):
"The titles of primogen and Inner Circle member are not unique and
cannot be contested."?
floppyzedolfin
wrote:
You did miss something.
The KoT rulebook in starters in not up-to-date.
Rulebook 10.1 :
Only Camarilla vampires can hold the Camarilla titles primogen,
prince, justicar and Inner Circle member. Additionally, each clan's
justicar and Inner Circle titles are unique.
darob...@hotmail.com
would regain his title when reentering the ready region.
Should this be the sequence of events?
A) Hardestat is in torpor and Arika comes into play. Hardestat loses
his title automatically because vampires in torpor cannot contest
titles. (Arika doesn't lose hers due to Hardestat's text because the
title is not actually being contested.)
B) Hardestat reenters the ready region, but since he has lost his
title being unable to contest when in torpor, Arika doesn't have to
yield hers.
A little help here because this might come up this weekend at our
Imperator event.
David Robins
On Apr 30, 5:59 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> Juggernaut1981 wrote:
> > On May 1, 8:17 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> >> Xexyz wrote:
> >>> 2. Hardestadt is intorporand Arika is in play. During Arika's
> >>> controller's untap phase Arika must yield herInnerCircletitle
> >>> because of Hardestadt's text, even though he's intorpor, correct?
> >> Correct.
>
> > LSJ: Is the end result of this sequence of plays...
>
> > a) Hardestat loses his title, Arika regains hers
> > b) Hardestat regains his title when he enters the ready region, Arika
> > loses hers immediately
> > c) Hardestat and Arika both lose their titles
>
> d) Arika loses her titles when she yields it. Hardestadt regains his title when
> he wins thecontest(i.e., on his next untap phase).
LSJ
> I'm still confused on this. I guess I don't understand why Hardestat
> would regain his title when reentering the ready region.
Rule 0: don't top-post. On USENET (as opposed to regular email or whatever), the
convention is to post in-line -- never top-posting.
> Should this be the sequence of events?
>
> A) Hardestat is in torpor and Arika comes into play. Hardestat loses
> his title automatically because vampires in torpor cannot contest
> titles. (Arika doesn't lose hers due to Hardestat's text because the
> title is not actually being contested.)
He doesn't lose it immediately. He doesn't have to pay to contest it until his
untap phase (at which time, if he's still in torpor, he will be forced to yield).
> B) Hardestat reenters the ready region, but since he has lost his
> title being unable to contest when in torpor, Arika doesn't have to
> yield hers.
After Arika yielded her title in her untap phase, she was no longer contesting
it. So later, when Hardestadt untaps, he finds that no one is contesting his
title, so he regains the benefit of it.
D.J.
> darobins...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Should this be the sequence of events?
>
> > A) Hardestat is in torpor and Arika comes into play. Hardestat loses
> > his title automatically because vampires in torpor cannot contest
> > titles. (Arika doesn't lose hers due to Hardestat's text because the
> > title is not actually being contested.)
>
> He doesn't lose it immediately. He doesn't have to pay to contest it until his
> untap phase (at which time, if he's still in torpor, he will be forced to yield).
>
> > B) Hardestat reenters the ready region, but since he has lost his
> > title being unable to contest when in torpor, Arika doesn't have to
> > yield hers.
>
> After Arika yielded her title in her untap phase, she was no longer contesting
> it. So later, when Hardestadt untaps, he finds that no one is contesting his
> title, so he regains the benefit of it.
I think some of the confusion may be stemming from the difficulty of
finding a sequence of events that has Hardestadt in torpor, Arika in
play, the contest not yet resolved, and Arika's controller's untap
phase happening before Hardestadt's.
Setup: Harde in play.
1. Arika brought into play. Title is now contested.
2. Harde's player's turn happens (so Harde pays to contest during
untap.)
3. Sometime between Harde's untap and Arika's, Hardestadt has a little
mishap and ends up in torpor; he does not yield yet, since it's not
untap.
4. Arika's player's turn begins; Arika cannot contest it due to
Harde's text, so yields.
5. Harde's untap happens; Hardestadt regains the benefits of the
title.
That's about the only sequence of events I can think of that works
like that. What David was asking, though, was specifically:
Setup: Hardestadt in play, and in torpor.
1. Arika brought into play. Title is now contested.
(assuming no cross-table rescue on an intervening turn...)
2. Harde's player's turn begins. Hardestadt must yield, as he's in
torpor.
3. Arika's player's turn happens. Arika is not contesting, and
regains the benefit of her title.
There's no way that Arika could have yielded hers during her untap
phase with Hardestadt in torpor when she entered play without
Hardestadt's player having had a turn first, and thus been forced to
yield (making it moot) or having been cross-table rescued in between
(making it not the same situation being asked about).
Here's hoping that helps...
- D.J.
darob...@hotmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
That's it exactly. Thanks.
David Robins