a vampire s o powerful
arwall
here in france ; there is a picture of a baali : shaitan .
the picture is not very good and his disciplines are not really
recognisable but the text are understandable..
shaitan
11
5 or 6 sup disciplines (including DAI)
he also have additional bleed and vote .
and the best
he has the same power than ian "i can play all the disciplines"
forestal
and he is for sure infernal...
i will see the picture tomorrow and will post the exact text...
one of the most powerful kindred of the WOD now in v:tes...
arwall
Halcyan 2
>here in france ; there is a picture of a baali : shaitan .
>the picture is not very good and his disciplines are not really
>recognisable but the text are understandable..
My question is how this shop in France managed to acquire such a promo (or
information). Maybe they're just trying to pull your leg? =)
Halcyan 2
Roger Carhult
"arwall" <arw...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:3c5617c7.01111...@posting.google.com...
I was told Huitzilopochtli is acutally Shaitan, isn't this true?
Roger
Reyda
"arwall" <arw...@my-deja.com> a écrit dans le message news:
3c5617c7.01111...@posting.google.com...
> so guys let's say that is not a seen cards but in a catalog for shop
> here in france ; there is a picture of a baali : shaitan .
> the picture is not very good and his disciplines are not really
> recognisable but the text are understandable..
Laughing out loud, my friend =)
this card is in no way a real one.
it was created by Damnans, i guess (or maybe some other photoshopping
player)
anyway i don't know how you saw a copy in a store or a catalog...
reyda
Damnans
> so guys let's say that is not a seen cards but in a catalog for shop
> here in france ; there is a picture of a baali : shaitan .
> the picture is not very good and his disciplines are not really
> recognisable but the text are understandable..
I think Shaitan is actually Huitzilopochtli (according to "The Chaos
Factor", a supplement for Mage: The Ascension). However, it also likely
that the Shaitan you saw was one of the several Shaitan who existed
throughout history.
Greetings,
Damnans
arwall
it's not a promo. there is a picture in their retailer book ..
will keep all of you informed. will try to see the picture by myself today...
arwall
in the WOd ; it seems that shaitan was an aztec god . i will check
that in the sourcebook....
arwall
Halcyan 2
>Factor", a supplement for Mage: The Ascension). However, it also likely
>that the Shaitan you saw was one of the several Shaitan who existed
>throughout history.
Well, from what I've heard, "The Chaos Factor" is an infamous 2nd Edition book,
notorious for twinked out, munchkin characters. And, just like Dirty Secrets,
White Wolf seems to have done it's best to distance itself from it.
Wasn't Chaos Factor also the one that first introduced Melinda Galbraith(sp) as
a !Toreador. (And then someone else said she was a Lasombra. So they had to
concoct some silly story about a !Tor masquerading as a Lasombra). And methinks
it also had the infamous Samuel Haight in it as well? (That Awakened Kinfolk
Ghouled Skin Dancer who served the Wyrm?).
Halcyan 2
Orpheus
Arwall and all french players, a reminder : the french equivalent of this
list is at the link below.
news://news.zoo-logique.org/VTES-francophone
Yours,
Orpheus
http://cypheranima.free.fr
audio...@yahoogroups.com
"Reyda" <re...@noos.fr> a écrit dans le message news:
9snjs3$8rq$1...@neon.noos.net...
Dimple
Huitzilopochtli IS the main Aztec God (according to all the books i
read about this civilization...)... So we can say that Shaitan IS
Huitzilopochtli.
Dimple
Andrew S. Davidson
>Huitzilopochtli IS the main Aztec God (according to all the books i
>read about this civilization...)...
Indeed.
"Huitzilopochtli, whose name means "Blue Hummingbird on the Left," was
the Aztec god of the Sun and the war. He was shown as a blue man fully
armed with hummingbird feathers on his head. His mother Coatlicue
became pregnant with Huitzilopochtli when a ball of feathers fell from
the heaven and touched her. Huitzilopochtli's siblings thought that
their mother Coatlicue had dishonored them with her mysterious
pregnancy.
One sister of Huitzilopochtli, Coyolxauhqui, encouraged her star
sisters and brothers to kill their mother Coatlicue. However,
Huitzilopochtli sprang out of his mother and saved her. Coatlicue
regretted such violence. Thus, Huitzilopochtli cut off Coyolxauhqui's
head and threw it in the sky to become the Moon.
Aztecs used to offer human sacrifices to Huitzilopochtli. The victims
were usually prisoners captured in the frequent wars that Aztecs were
fighting against their neighbors. The sacrifices were intended to
secure rain, harvests and success in war.The most common form of
sacrifice practiced by Aztecs was to tear out the heart of a living
body and offer it to the Sun."
Andrew
James Coupe
<dimple_...@yahoo.fr> writes:
>Huitzilopochtli IS the main Aztec God (according to all the books i
>read about this civilization...)... So we can say that Shaitan IS
>Huitzilopochtli.
The problem is, from a somewhat more technical point of view, like many
pantheons, the chief god can change somewhat depending upon whom you
ask.
From what I recall about the Aztecs, Huitzilopochtli is, at one point,
the chief god, but the pantheon moves through different ages, such that
at another point Quetzlcoatl (who is an important god anyway;
orthography varies) becomes extremely important in the pantheon, as the
creator god. (Lots of things eventually get moved over to him.)
Similarly, in later years, Ra becomes less central to the Egyptians -
his duties as leader of a council of the deities (I forget the technical
term, but that's the rough idea) get farmed out to others, including
Isis, and Horus becomes quite important as a sun god, too, for instance.
Local variation in worship also causes other gods to shift in
ascendance, as different aspects become more important e.g. an
agriculturally focused deity may vary in importance against a sea based
deity, depending on local trade and industry.
--
James Coupe Everybody knows that "No" means "Yes"
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D Just like glasses come free on the NHS
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 But the more I look through them the more I see
13D7E668C3695D623D5D I'm becoming more like Alfie
pallando
http://www.almadrava.net/damnans/images/Shaitan.jpg
it was done by damnans.
regards
pallando
"arwall" <arw...@my-deja.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3c5617c7.01111...@posting.google.com...
The Fanboy
> concoct some silly story about a !Tor masquerading as a Lasombra).
That's nothing compared to Rasputin, man. The man's been three
different clans, a Shadow Lord, and a Wraith.
>And methinks it also had the infamous Samuel Haight in it as well?
(That ?>Awakened Kinfolk Ghouled Skin Dancer who served the Wyrm?).
He wound up being the critter of choice for all the games before it
was said and done -- I'm not sure which books he appeared in, but
those are all pretty old books. They stopped using him in their
metaplot by the time I was buying WW books in 1995.
Fanboy
Roger Carhult
"The Fanboy" <texas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f99d61c5.01111...@posting.google.com...
He first appeared ina Werewolf book called something with Valkenburg in the
title I think.
Roger
Halcyan 2
>title I think.
And he ended up as some ashtray...
Halcyan 2
Halcyan 2
My god! That vampire is horribly broken! Besides having a hideous picture,
Shaitan is worth like 18 points for an 11-cap! 12 for the 6 superior
disciplines + 2 for the four votes, +2 for the Ian Forestal special, +2 for the
extra bleed = 18! And you thought Arika was undercosted! Not to mention the
fact that the Daimoneon(sp) symbol is actually rather amusing and cute! =)
Halcyan 2
Iain Wilson
That's the chap :)
Curevei
>My god! That vampire is horribly broken! Besides having a hideous picture,
Don't like comic book style art?
>Shaitan is worth like 18 points for an 11-cap! 12 for the 6 superior
>disciplines + 2 for the four votes, +2 for the Ian Forestal special, +2 for
>the
>extra bleed = 18! And you thought Arika was undercosted! Not to mention the
>fact that the Daimoneon(sp) symbol is actually rather amusing and cute!
Isn't he missing obfuscate? Or, is he not supposed to be Baali?
arwall
> could it be this shaitan?
>
> http://www.almadrava.net/damnans/images/Shaitan.jpg
>
> it was done by damnans.
>
> regards
>
> pallando
>
indeed it is. so i am very sorry to have post in aniticpation.
but when this week end at a tournament ; a player from another town
tell me that the french most important games distributor had a visual
preview in their retailer catalog (he is a retailer).
i was teling to myself : waoo what a powerful vampire so i post and
yesterday i deal with my shop to see their catalog and has seen it and
effectively it a damnans work but because in all their boo;the others
pictures are real ones ; and the fact i haven't seen the shaitan by
damnans before; i was wronged.
i feel very stupid. (reyda: c'ets dans le catalogue millenium de
printemps/hiver 2001)
now i 'm wondering if they ask damnans to use his work ...
david...
and shaitan is the most powerful vampire they did in the WOd; just
like rasputin and th dreadful samuel haight..
Damnans
A HIGH capacity vampire is not broken by the mere fact of having many dots in
disciplines. Bear in mind that you are never going to use them all (just 2, 3 or 4
of those disciplines).
What would you think about Ian Forestal, if he were a bit different, as I list
below:
Ian Forrestal
Capacity: 8
Disciplines: DOM, AUS, THA, for, nec, dem, obf, pre, ani, pro, vic.
Would you say he is broken?. In fact, his current special ability grants him the
use of even more disciplines.
In addition, when I turned Shaitan into a V:TES card, I tried to reflect his real
power.Take into account that Shaitan is one of the most powerful Methuselahs in the
World of Darkness.
Name: Shaitan
Clan: Baali
Generation: 4th
Embrace: 4500 BC
DISCIPLINES: Animalism 6, Auspex 9, Celerity 6, Chimerstry 6, Daimoinon 9, Dark
Thaumaturgy 7, Dementation 8, Dominate 9, Fortitude 7, Obtenebration 4, Presence 9,
Protean 7, Potence 9, Thaumaturgy 4, Visceratika 3.
BACKGROUNDS: Allies 9, Contacts 9, Herd 9, Infuence 9, Resources 4, Retainers 9,
Status 9.
I think that bringing a 11-10 capacity vampire into play must be worth the effort,
considering the great amount of power and influence they possess in comparison to
lesser vampires. Otherwise, we'd better play with middle capacity vampires or
weenies.
Greetings,
Damnans
Damnans
arwall wrote:
> "pallando" <pall...@gmx.at> wrote in message news:<9sosg2$g6k$1...@bird.wu-wien.ac.at>...
> > could it be this shaitan?
> >
> > http://www.almadrava.net/damnans/images/Shaitan.jpg
> >
> > it was done by damnans.
> >
> > regards
> >
> > pallando
> >
>
> indeed it is. so i am very sorry to have post in aniticpation.
> but when this week end at a tournament ; a player from another town
> tell me that the french most important games distributor had a visual
> preview in their retailer catalog (he is a retailer).
> i was teling to myself : waoo what a powerful vampire so i post and
> yesterday i deal with my shop to see their catalog and has seen it and
> effectively it a damnans work but because in all their boo;the others
> pictures are real ones ; and the fact i haven't seen the shaitan by
> damnans before; i was wronged.
> i feel very stupid. (reyda: c'ets dans le catalogue millenium de
> printemps/hiver 2001)
>
> now i 'm wondering if they ask damnans to use his work ...
No. And it does not matter, because I want the cards on my web page to be available to
anyone wishing to download them.
Greetings,
Damnans
James Coupe
writes:
>No. And it does not matter, because I want the cards on my web page to be available to
>anyone wishing to download them.
I would suggest tagging the bottom of them with "Unofficial card" or
some similar line, where the copyright text would appear usually.
Halcyan 2
>list
>below:
>
>Ian Forrestal
>Capacity: 8
>Disciplines: DOM, AUS, THA, for, nec, dem, obf, pre, ani, pro, vic.
Well, his special doesn't technically give him the discipline (he can just play
cards as if he had the discipline). And, unlike Shaitan, he doesn't get the
votes, the bleed bonus, and the extra superiors! =)
>In addition, when I turned Shaitan into a V:TES card, I tried to reflect his
>real
>power.Take into account that Shaitan is one of the most powerful Methuselahs
>in the
>World of Darkness.
But then again, Etrius, Ur-Shulgi, and friends are also supposed to be among
the most powerful Methusalehs. Not to mention the Antediluvian Augustus and
Sutekh...yet you don't see any of them half as overpowered as that particular
rendition of Shaitan.
Halcyan 2
arwall
> In message <3BF11749...@ono.com>, Damnans <damna...@ono.com>
> writes:
> >No. And it does not matter, because I want the cards on my web page to be available to
> >anyone wishing to download them.
>
> I would suggest tagging the bottom of them with "Unofficial card" or
> some similar line, where the copyright text would appear usually.
yes it would prevent silly boy like me to think there are previews.
Damnans
Yes. I will try. Though it will take TIME :)
Greatings,
Damnans
Damnans
Halcyan 2 wrote:
> >What would you think about Ian Forestal, if he were a bit different, as I
> >list
> >below:
> >
> >Ian Forrestal
> >Capacity: 8
> >Disciplines: DOM, AUS, THA, for, nec, dem, obf, pre, ani, pro, vic.
>
> Well, his special doesn't technically give him the discipline (he can just play
> cards as if he had the discipline). And, unlike Shaitan, he doesn't get the
> votes, the bleed bonus, and the extra superiors! =)
Anyway. According to your criteria, the current Ian should be a broken vampire.
> >In addition, when I turned Shaitan into a V:TES card, I tried to reflect his
> >real
> >power.Take into account that Shaitan is one of the most powerful Methuselahs
> >in the
> >World of Darkness.
>
> But then again, Etrius, Ur-Shulgi, and friends are also supposed to be among
> the most powerful Methusalehs. Not to mention the Antediluvian Augustus and
> Sutekh...yet you don't see any of them half as overpowered as that particular
> rendition of Shaitan.
Could you tell me why an 11 capacity vampire with 6 disciplines at superior is
overpowered?.
Greetings,
Damnans
LSJ
> Currently the cost system is flawed. Because it assumes that having tons of
> disciplines is always better. Sure they are more flexible...useful in 5 or
> more different types of decks...but I would expect that from a big cap guy.
> Besides, where's that 5 cap vampire with +1 bleed, 1 vote, +1 hand damage, a
> manuver each combat, and inferior potence? That adds up just as well as a
> guy with 6 dots of disciplines.
The costing system isn't designed to be used to construct a vampire (or else
you could end up with the munchkin min-maxed type vampires that you give an
example of above). It is designed to be a metric by which vampires (constructed
by the usual means - by being designed) are measured.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
The Nosferatu Stuff
> But then again, Etrius, Ur-Shulgi, and friends are also supposed to be
among
> the most powerful Methusalehs. Not to mention the Antediluvian Augustus
and
> Sutekh...yet you don't see any of them half as overpowered as that
particular
> rendition of Shaitan.
Yeah, but on the other side, they are pretty much not worth their cost. In
my corruption deck, he's a waste, too big for a single action. In my 'core'
FOS deck, using superior OBF/SER/PRE why choose him over Qufur am-Heru? If
it's the +1 bleed...well Qufur comes out 1 turn earlier, and can use that
turn to equip a laptop, making him effectivly sutek for 3 pool less. If
it's your bane mummy deck, he's still out 1 turn early, and charisma is just
as good as his special. In some cases, like a SER/pot/cel deck he's
okay...only OKAY. Not great. Thats whats wrong with big guys. Mid caps
can easily equal the big guys power if the deck isn't based specifically
around them. And in general purpose decks the investment in mid caps is
almost always less then big guys. Because, like Damnans stated, you are
paying for powers/disciplines/specials that you aren't using. Playing with
Sutek over Qufur means I have to base the deck on him, or he's wated.
Next time you play Sutek, just keep track of what you are wasting. How many
actions would Qufur have not been able to take. How many times you gain
that pool from bane mummies. How many votes you win, or block with his 2
votes. How many celerity cards you play. And how much of a difference that
+1 bleed makes. If ***ALL*** those things don't make a difference then you
are wasting pool. If only 1-2 are helping you, then you need an augmented 7
cap.
Currently the cost system is flawed. Because it assumes that having tons of
disciplines is always better. Sure they are more flexible...useful in 5 or
more different types of decks...but I would expect that from a big cap guy.
Besides, where's that 5 cap vampire with +1 bleed, 1 vote, +1 hand damage, a
manuver each combat, and inferior potence? That adds up just as well as a
guy with 6 dots of disciplines.
--
Aaron
The Nosferatu Stuff
James Coupe
writes:
>> >Ian Forrestal
>> >Capacity: 8
>> >Disciplines: DOM, AUS, THA, for, nec, dem, obf, pre, ani, pro, vic.
>>
>> Well, his special doesn't technically give him the discipline (he can just play
>> cards as if he had the discipline). And, unlike Shaitan, he doesn't get the
>> votes, the bleed bonus, and the extra superiors! =)
>
>Anyway. According to your criteria, the current Ian should be a broken vampire.
In many ways, he is. He's way, way off the power curve.
Chris Berger, I believe, some years back also noted that you could
consider his special ability to be worth +5 points - since he's been
given three disciplines at inferior anyway, and the special bumps those
up to superior. An interesting take on it, at least.
So why does Ian break? Vampires have an inherent self-righting
mechanism, as do many aspects of the game.
A powerful vampire is perceived as likely to turn up a lot, and so some
people will tone down their use of him.
A vampire is unique (with certain new exceptions). As such, it is more
difficult to utilise large amounts of them, except in certain trick
decks.
A vampire is vulnerable. They are one target, unlike, say, multiple
cards in your hand, a vampire has a big target above their head. This
is especially true of decks like Temptation of Greater Sleaze, where the
Justicar *should* be considered the prime threat.
All of these help limit vampires in general.
As regards Ian specifically, he's part of the Tremere Antitribu. New
cards haven't been able to interact with him in as useful a fashion as
they might, because he wasn't reprinted. (I would certainly be in
favour of his reprinting in the near future.)
He's part of the Tremere and Tremere Antitribu ghetto - they're
generally perceived as weak by many players, because their combat is
limited to second round for sheer effectiveness, their bleed is lacking
stealth and so on. This perception is slowly changing, with cards like
Perfect Clarity and Telepathic Tracking coming to the fore. However,
for a player attempting a deck that doesn't use at least one of his
superiors, he becomes rather expensive - that ser/obf/pro deck might do
better with other vampires.
He's unique in himself. That is, his ability is unique. Slot Ian into
a deck, and that deck is most likely only using 3 or 4 disciplines,
tops. Say you put him in a Malkavian, Malkavian Antitribu cross-over
deck - he's got AUS DOM dem obf, for most practical purposes. (He
doesn't, of course, actually *have* the disciplines, but that's mostly
irrelevant.) The deck he's in can't be too wide ranging - Ian can play
all the cards, but all the other vampires can't, in most instances e.g.
your ani/pot/chi/aus/pro/tha deck will find itself hand-jamming a fair
bit, if Ian is the only vampire who can play all of them.
However, compare this to a deck with Ian *and* Shaitan - that's rather a
different kettle of fish, n'est-ce pas? Both of them can play all the
disciplines.
Add another vampire with the same ability - that's three vampires, four
times in your crypt.
Or four vampires, three times in your crypt.
Or...
And they can all play *any* discipline card. Cards no longer have the
hindrance of teaming them up with the relevant discipline - that card
combo you've been aching to play with ser/chi/dem is no longer limited
by the difficulty of obtaining that combo, which goes a long way towards
forming part of its cost.
Every time you add a vampire with Ian's ability, you slowly make it
easier to exploit that. I'd say you'd need three before it was really
chaos, but two would be bad.
Ian is broken - he's just very hard to break in the current environment,
which functions on the basis of limitation of disciplines. Adding more
vampires like Ian fundamentally removes that basic limitation.
Curevei
>disciplines is always better. Sure they are more flexible...useful in 5 or
>more different types of decks...but I would expect that from a big cap guy.
>Besides, where's that 5 cap vampire with +1 bleed, 1 vote, +1 hand damage, a
>manuver each combat, and inferior potence? That adds up just as well as a
>guy with 6 dots of disciplines.
Rigidly adhering to any system is flawed for the reason LSJ points out in his
response.
I ran Shaitan through my point system and came up with 14, which is not out of
line with the IC members, which confirms (to the extent that a point system
can) that he's about as useful as they are.
Tobias Loehr
> you could end up with the munchkin min-maxed type vampires that you give an
> example of above). It is designed to be a metric by which vampires >>(constructed
> by the usual means - by being designed) are measured.
Could you explain a bit more on what you mean here. As I am
understanding it you are saying that when developing new cards you
don't sit down and say "I'm going to make a 6 cap vamp, what 'points'
can I give him for that..." but rather it would go somethine like, "I
designed this vamp and I think he would be most balanced at 6 cap."
Please enlighten me (and others) on this....
The Nosferatu Stuff
news:3BF272FD...@white-wolf.com...
> The Nosferatu Stuff wrote:
> > Currently the cost system is flawed. Because it assumes that having
tons of
> > disciplines is always better. Sure they are more flexible...useful in 5
or
> > more different types of decks...but I would expect that from a big cap
guy.
> > Besides, where's that 5 cap vampire with +1 bleed, 1 vote, +1 hand
damage, a
> > manuver each combat, and inferior potence? That adds up just as well as
a
> > guy with 6 dots of disciplines.
>
> The costing system isn't designed to be used to construct a vampire (or
else
> you could end up with the munchkin min-maxed type vampires that you give
an
> example of above). It is designed to be a metric by which vampires
(constructed
> by the usual means - by being designed) are measured.
But that still says nothing to the fact that the metric loses its
purpose/functionality at the high end of the scale. You don't choose a 2
cap with 1 discipline, who has the wrong discipline. What large vampires
see use, ones that people consider "broken" or better then the other ones.
They are getting better, but still for the most part they do not compete
against the same decks using smaller vampires. Bigger vampires should focus
not on more dots of disciplines, but on better always active special
abilities, or the mundane bonuses that make them better then playing a
smaller vampire and giving them a card to make them equal to the big
guy.(see my whole post) This is mainly directed at vampires 11, 10, 9
capacity with tons of disciplines, especially disciplines that do not match
with anyone elses.(making them virtually unplayable)
Kevin M.
> In message <3BF21D35...@ono.com>, Damnans <damna...@ono.com>
> writes:
> >> >Ian Forrestal
> >> >Capacity: 8
> >> >Disciplines: DOM, AUS, THA, for, nec, dem, obf, pre, ani, pro, vic.
> >>
> >> Well, his special doesn't technically give him the discipline (he can just
play
> >> cards as if he had the discipline). And, unlike Shaitan, he doesn't get the
> >> votes, the bleed bonus, and the extra superiors! =)
> >
> >Anyway. According to your criteria, the current Ian should be a broken
vampire.
>
> In many ways, he is. He's way, way off the power curve.
[snip James replying to Damnans' message]
> Ian is broken - he's just very hard to break in the current environment,
> which functions on the basis of limitation of disciplines. Adding more
> vampires like Ian fundamentally removes that basic limitation.
I would disagree that Ian is broken, since he is not the X to which people are
playing an Anti-X (re: RtI).
I would instead say that Ian is undercosted.
> James Coupe Everybody knows that "No" means
"Yes"
> PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D Just like glasses come free on the
NHS
> EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 But the more I look through them the more I
see
> 13D7E668C3695D623D5D I'm becoming more like
Alfie
Kevin M., Prince of Madison, WI (USA)
"Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
James Coupe
<kjme...@PLEASENOSPAMMEhome.com> writes:
>> Ian is broken - he's just very hard to break in the current environment,
>> which functions on the basis of limitation of disciplines. Adding more
>> vampires like Ian fundamentally removes that basic limitation.
>
>I would disagree that Ian is broken, since he is not the X to which people are
>playing an Anti-X (re: RtI).
>
>I would instead say that Ian is undercosted.
In terms of vampires, it's very difficult to get an X/anti-X situation
because of all the inherent limitations of vampires - the
vulnerabilities of not drawing them, crypt-jam, obvious targets,
contesting - whatever. It's not impossible, of course, it's just a lot
more difficult.
I can play Return to Innocence with Arika. Or I can play it with
Spiridonas. Or I can play it with Etrius. Or I can play it with
Basilia. Or I can play it with Haakon Mortensen. Or I can play it with
Spider Killer. Or I...
Lots of people can play the same X here because X isn't entirely
exclusive in form. If people play the same X from a crypt, it's more
significant a problem for them when something goes wrong with the crypt
- the whole deck falls over.
In terms of a vampire, when using the word "broken", I'd be tempted to
deviate away from the X/anti-X situation. And I don't think it's
*entirely* necessary in a library situation - perhaps an extremely good
card which provides things for the Methuselah, without any need to anti
it because you can do it useful (say, a non-unique upgraded Dreams of
the Sphinx, for the same cost) could well be border-line broken.
And as I said, with Ian I think it's a case of him being broken but not
yet breakable (if you see what I mean) in the current environment, where
everyone else restricts the disciplines he uses. Drop two or three
similar vampires in and - boom.
<snip - unused and badly formatted quote of my signature>
--
LSJ
A vampire is designed (clan, capacity, disciplines, special). That design
is then checked to get a rough guess at the balance of the card (to see
if it's in the ballpark) - the system measures an artificial property
that attempts to mimic the too-vague-to-be-concretely-measured property
of "power" or "utility". For the most part, for "real" vampire designs,
the artificial property is equivalent to the power. But degenerate
examples can be created to illustrate that the two properties are not
truly equivalent.