Passle of Questions
Jason Bell
construction, playing in some games, and talking
with some friends:
Can Amaranth be used by the acting minion
after The Kiss of Ra has been used at
superior?
[My guess is no, since Amaranth is a combat
card, and there is no combat]
If a minion with 0 stealth is blocked by
a minion with 0 intercept, what happens
when the acting minion plays Call of the
Hungry Dead at inferior (-1 intercept)?
[I have no idea, since I don't know if
negative intercept is possible]
Can The Jones be used to cancel a
non-card strike? If so:
Can it cancel a hand strike, and if
so, can the opposing minion choose
hand again?
Can it cancel a .44 shot after the
maneuver, and if so, can the opposing
minion choose .44 again?
Can it cancel a Gas Powered Chainsaw
(once per combat) strike, and if so,
can the opposing minion choose Gas
Powered Chainsaw again?
If I take control of an opponent's
vampire which already has a Blood
Doll on it, who now controls the Blood
Doll? Who can use the Blood Doll?
Does the Priscus sub-referendum
happen completely before the full
referendum or does it continue
during the full referendum (6.3.3
implies the latter)?
- Jason Bell
LSJ
> Can Amaranth be used by the acting minion
> after The Kiss of Ra has been used at
> superior?
> [My guess is no, since Amaranth is a combat
> card, and there is no combat]
Correct.
> If a minion with 0 stealth is blocked by
> a minion with 0 intercept, what happens
> when the acting minion plays Call of the
> Hungry Dead at inferior (-1 intercept)?
> [I have no idea, since I don't know if
> negative intercept is possible]
It is. A minion with less intercept than the
acting minion's stealth will fail to block.
> Can The Jones be used to cancel a
> non-card strike? If so:
Yes.
> Can it cancel a hand strike, and if
> so, can the opposing minion choose
> hand again?
Yes and yes.
> Can it cancel a .44 shot after the
> maneuver, and if so, can the opposing
> minion choose .44 again?
Yes and yes (indeed, he has no other choice).
> Can it cancel a Gas Powered Chainsaw
> (once per combat) strike, and if so,
> can the opposing minion choose Gas
> Powered Chainsaw again?
Yes and yes.
> If I take control of an opponent's
> vampire which already has a Blood
> Doll on it, who now controls the Blood
> Doll?
Whoever played it. [1.6.2]
> Who can use the Blood Doll?
See card text.
> Does the Priscus sub-referendum
> happen completely before the full
> referendum or does it continue
> during the full referendum (6.3.3
> implies the latter)?
The latter.
6.3.3 is rather explicit on this point.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Jason Bell
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote
> Jason Bell wrote:
> > Can The Jones be used to cancel
...
> > Can it cancel a Gas Powered Chainsaw
> > (once per combat) strike, and if so,
> > can the opposing minion choose Gas
> > Powered Chainsaw again?
>
> Yes and yes.
Wow. How can this be? If my cancelled
superior Form of Mist cannot be re-played
because I can't repeat an action modifier,
(and the Form of Mist triggers as having
played an action modifier) how can I re-play
a once-per-combat G-P-Chainsaw after having
played it once? What am I missing?
Is it that "once per combat" weapons
can be used for the full round (for additional
strikes)?
Hey, as long as we're talking Chainsaws, is
the regular old Chainsaw still 2 pool, or am
I to consider the old Chainsaws to be
Gas Powered? If still 2 pool, what powers
the regular Chainsaws?
> > If I take control of an opponent's
> > vampire which already has a Blood
> > Doll on it, who now controls the Blood
> > Doll?
>
> Whoever played it. [1.6.2]
>
> > Who can use the Blood Doll?
>
> See card text.
Now, I really appreciate you working on a Sunday
like this, and I really really appreciate that you
take the time to answer the questions posed
by goobers such as myself, but this is a bad
answer. If all I had was a Jyhad Blood Doll,
I would look at that text, and happily go away
certain that the rule was just the opposite
of what it actually is. Luckily I own a current
copy of Blood Doll, so I know the answer, and
probably shouldn't have asked the question
(see above, re: goober). Anyway, my point is
that it wouldn't have taken much to confirm that
the vampire's controller is the only one who can
move the blood, regardless of who played the card,
to avoid the above possibility. And if I wasn't just
a goober, and all I had was the old Jyhad card,
well then I could be in real trouble.
> > Does the Priscus sub-referendum
> > happen completely before the full
> > referendum or does it continue
> > during the full referendum (6.3.3
> > implies the latter)?
>
> The latter.
>
> 6.3.3 is rather explicit on this point.
Nope, it's not.
- Jason Bell
LSJ
> "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote
> > Jason Bell wrote:
>
> > > Can The Jones be used to cancel
> ...
> > > Can it cancel a Gas Powered Chainsaw
> > > (once per combat) strike, and if so,
> > > can the opposing minion choose Gas
> > > Powered Chainsaw again?
> >
> > Yes and yes.
>
> Wow. How can this be? If my cancelled
> superior Form of Mist cannot be re-played
> because I can't repeat an action modifier,
> (and the Form of Mist triggers as having
> played an action modifier) how can I re-play
> a once-per-combat G-P-Chainsaw after having
> played it once? What am I missing?
> Is it that "once per combat" weapons
> can be used for the full round (for additional
> strikes)?
You're mixing up "played" with "chosen for your
strike". A weapon isn't used until the strike
resolves (or until the maneuver is used or
whatever).
You can't replay Form of Mist because it's not
in your hand. You can't play another at superior
because the rule on action modifiers is "played"
and not "used".
> Hey, as long as we're talking Chainsaws, is
> the regular old Chainsaw still 2 pool, or am
> I to consider the old Chainsaws to be
> Gas Powered? If still 2 pool, what powers
> the regular Chainsaws?
Chainsaw has no errata.
> > > If I take control of an opponent's
> > > vampire which already has a Blood
> > > Doll on it, who now controls the Blood
> > > Doll?
> >
> > Whoever played it. [1.6.2]
> >
> > > Who can use the Blood Doll?
> >
> > See card text.
>
> Now, I really appreciate you working on a Sunday
> like this, and I really really appreciate that you
> take the time to answer the questions posed
> by goobers such as myself, but this is a bad
> answer. If all I had was a Jyhad Blood Doll,
> I would look at that text, and happily go away
See official card text given on the white wolf
web page (linked from my .sig below).
> > > Does the Priscus sub-referendum
> > > happen completely before the full
> > > referendum or does it continue
> > > during the full referendum (6.3.3
> > > implies the latter)?
> >
> > The latter.
> >
> > 6.3.3 is rather explicit on this point.
>
> Nope, it's not.
Please explain. 6.3.3 says "during a referendum"
and notes that the block "may shift". How is this
not explicit?
Cameron
> > superior Form of Mist cannot be re-played
> > because I can't repeat an action modifier,
> > (and the Form of Mist triggers as having
> > played an action modifier) how can I re-play
> > a once-per-combat G-P-Chainsaw after having
> > played it once? What am I missing?
> > Is it that "once per combat" weapons
> > can be used for the full round (for additional
> > strikes)?
>
> You're mixing up "played" with "chosen for your
> strike". A weapon isn't used until the strike
> resolves (or until the maneuver is used or
> whatever).
>
> You can't replay Form of Mist because it's not
> in your hand. You can't play another at superior
> because the rule on action modifiers is "played"
> and not "used".
Ok, Sup FoM is an Action modifier, got that. Now, is Mirror Image
too? Or because it has no stealth is it simply a combat card (thus
allowing several per action)? Also, FoM can't be used to S:CE unless
you were acting, but looking at Mirror Image, you may be able to do
this. Clarification please.
Cameron
LSJ
>Ok, Sup FoM is an Action modifier, got that. Now, is Mirror Image
>too? Or because it has no stealth is it simply a combat card (thus
>allowing several per action)? Also, FoM can't be used to S:CE unless
>you were acting, but looking at Mirror Image, you may be able to do
>this. Clarification please.
Mirror Image is just a combat card.
Form of Mist is the only combat card that is also an action modifier
(that is, is both at the same time).
Both FoM and Mirror Image can be used for S:CE when not blocking.
FoM is only an action modifier when played by an acting minion at
superior.
LSJ
>orcao...@hotmail.com (Cameron) wrote:
>>Ok, Sup FoM is an Action modifier, got that. Now, is Mirror Image
>>too? Or because it has no stealth is it simply a combat card (thus
>>allowing several per action)? Also, FoM can't be used to S:CE unless
>>you were acting, but looking at Mirror Image, you may be able to do
>>this. Clarification please.
>
>Mirror Image is just a combat card.
>Form of Mist is the only combat card that is also an action modifier
>(that is, is both at the same time).
>
>Both FoM and Mirror Image can be used for S:CE when not blocking.
That should say "when not acting".
Jason Bell
Sure.
6.3.3 says that the Priscus block of three is voted
during the referendum, "according to the the
prisci sub-referendum." There is not any explicit
reference to the Priscus sub-referendum occuring
during as opposed to before the full referendum,
that must be inferred from the "three votes may
shift" text, but only inferred, since those votes
could hypothetically shift during the pre-full
referendum sub-referendum. Explicit would be
"the Priscus sub-referendum occurs during
the full referendum and ends when all
Priscus have either voted or abstained from
that sub-referendum. Until the sub-referendum
ends, the Priscus block votes can shift according
to the majority at any given point."
All this is academic, though. I'm glad to know
the correct procedure, as my group had been
determining the Priscus vote first, then moving
on to the full referendum.
Thanks again.
- Jason Bell
LSJ
>
> "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote
> > Jason Bell wrote:
> > > > 6.3.3 is rather explicit on this point.
> > >
> > > Nope, it's not.
> >
> > Please explain. 6.3.3 says "during a referendum"
> > and notes that the block "may shift". How is this
> > not explicit?
>
> Sure.
> 6.3.3 says that the Priscus block of three is voted
> during the referendum, "according to the the
> prisci sub-referendum." There is not any explicit
> reference to the Priscus sub-referendum occuring
> during as opposed to before the full referendum,
Not true. It says that it happens "during a referendum",
as I stated above. [6.3.3, "The Prisci Block", second
sentence.]
XZealot
> the regular old Chainsaw still 2 pool, or am
> I to consider the old Chainsaws to be
> Gas Powered? If still 2 pool, what powers
> the regular Chainsaws?
You get a choice natural gas, electricity or
one of those funny little stone treadmills with
a pteradactyl chasing a brontoburger.
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
Jason Bell
> > > Please explain. 6.3.3 says "during a referendum"
> > > and notes that the block "may shift". How is this
> > > not explicit?
> >
> > Sure.
> > 6.3.3 says that the Priscus block of three is voted
> > during the referendum, "according to the the
> > prisci sub-referendum." There is not any explicit
> > reference to the Priscus sub-referendum occuring
> > during as opposed to before the full referendum,
>
> Not true. It says that it happens "during a referendum",
> as I stated above. [6.3.3, "The Prisci Block", second
> sentence.]
Sigh.
That sentence says when the votes are cast.
To understand when the determination of those
three votes occurs, inference is required, from
the "may shift between" text later.
- Jason Bell
James Coupe
Bell <Jason...@mail.com> writes
>Sigh.
>That sentence says when the votes are cast.
The entire section refers to a sub-referendum, suggesting that it occurs
in the timeframe of the normal referendum.
--
James Coupe PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D
"You reinstall Dial-Up Networking. The Elf screams and becomes EBD690ECD7A1F
an icon. *** CONGRATULATIONS! *** You completed the BT Internet B457CA213D7E6
Helpdesk training course in 15 out of a possible 9000 moves." 68C3695D623D5D
Halcyan 2
>> the regular old Chainsaw still 2 pool, or am
>> I to consider the old Chainsaws to be
>> Gas Powered? If still 2 pool, what powers
>> the regular Chainsaws?
>
>You get a choice natural gas, electricity or
>one of those funny little stone treadmills with
>a pteradactyl chasing a brontoburger.
I think it would be cool to see a vampire wielding a solar-powered chainsaw.
Probably a Gangrel since it's environmental friendly.
Halcyan 2
Jason Bell
"James Coupe" <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote
> Jason Bell <Jason...@mail.com> writes
> >Sigh.
> >That sentence says when the votes are cast.
>
> The entire section refers to a sub-referendum, suggesting that it occurs
> in the timeframe of the normal referendum.
Agreed, but I still figured I needed confirmation on
that interpretation, which I was happy to receive.
It was just one of those things that I did incorrectly
without ever reading the rule, read the rule which
seemed to show I was doing it incorrectly, so I asked
to confirm that I was doing it incorrectly.
This has really become an issue of semantics (explicit
vs suggested or implied) , and I promised
myself ever since high school I would do my
best to avoid semantic arguments.
- Jason Bell
Jason Bell
"Halcyan 2" <halc...@aol.com> wrote
I figure electric, which explains the once-per-combat part,
as you can envision chasing after the opposing minion until
you reach the end of the extension cord.
- Jason Bell