New SoC preview: Trophy:Chosen
Blooded Sand
Master
When this card is moved to a vampire, that vampire gains 4 blood,
becomes sabbat and untaps or that vampire can choose to burn this card
instead. The vampire with this card is Black Hand. If he or she was
already Black Hand when receiving this card, he or she is Seraph.
Draft: (Master, not a Trophy)
Add 2 blood to a Black Hand vampire.
Yay!!!!! Finally a way to make seraphs, and at the same time an
absolutely awesome Trophy!!!!!
Wickedness, this card is gonna rock my world!!!
JH
> Yay!!!!! Finally a way to make seraphs
Don't forget the Seraph political action. Although I've never figured
out a way to use it efficiently. That card should've been printed with
Seraphs having votes in that referendum.
Blooded Sand
Which us kinda why i said a way to make, not vote into being,
Seraphs ;)
But fully get where you coming from.
Slytherin
> Trophy: Chosen
> Master
> When this card is moved to a vampire, that vampire gains 4 blood,
> becomes sabbat and untaps or that vampire can choose to burn this card
> instead. The vampire with this card is Black Hand. If he or she was
> already Black Hand when receiving this card, he or she is Seraph.
>
> Draft: (Master, not a Trophy)
> Add 2 blood to a Black Hand vampire.
Question:
How should this be read exactly:
1) Vampire gains 4 blood, becomes Sabbat (losing any sect based titles/
anarch if appropriate), and then either untaps or burns the card (but
keeps sabbat status)
2) Vampire gains 4 blood and either can untap and become sabbat, or
burn the card and keep original sect
3) Vampire burns the card and gains no effect, or gains 4 blood,
becomes sabbat and untaps.
(Obviously gaining BH and/or Seraph status where appropriate after
deciding to burn the card or not).
I assume 2 is the card intent, but 1 or 3 could very easily be read,
as the punctuation is not set to which will happen otherwise. If 2 is
not the intent, then I don't quite see how it will see play in
anything other than a BH rush using Red-list for Trophies deck. (The
red-list being a Camarilla held list, although I know that the game
and WOD1 do not necessarily run exactly together).
Andy
VEKN Setite Ruler of Cambridge
LSJ
> On 9 Mar, 12:08, "Blooded Sand" <sandm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Trophy: Chosen
>> Master
>> When this card is moved to a vampire, that vampire gains 4 blood,
>> becomes sabbat and untaps or that vampire can choose to burn this card
>> instead. The vampire with this card is Black Hand. If he or she was
>> already Black Hand when receiving this card, he or she is Seraph.
>>
>> Draft: (Master, not a Trophy)
>> Add 2 blood to a Black Hand vampire.
>
> Question:
>
> How should this be read exactly:
>
> 1) Vampire gains 4 blood, becomes Sabbat (losing any sect based titles/
> anarch if appropriate), and then either untaps or burns the card (but
> keeps sabbat status)
>
> 2) Vampire gains 4 blood and either can untap and become sabbat, or
> burn the card and keep original sect
>
> 3) Vampire burns the card and gains no effect, or gains 4 blood,
> becomes sabbat and untaps.
>
> (Obviously gaining BH and/or Seraph status where appropriate after
> deciding to burn the card or not).
3).
> I assume 2 is the card intent, but 1 or 3 could very easily be read,
> as the punctuation is not set to which will happen otherwise.
No, the punctuation is clear.
There are two clauses (you can tell by the two subject/predicate pairs).
The first predicate has three parts. The second has one.
Slytherin
> 3).
>
> > I assume 2 is the card intent, but 1 or 3 could very easily be read,
> > as the punctuation is not set to which will happen otherwise.
>
> No, the punctuation is clear.
>
> There are two clauses (you can tell by the two subject/predicate pairs).
> The first predicate has three parts. The second has one.
I agree that 3 is the most clear way to read it, but thanks for
clarification though. As such, my feeling is this card really will not
see play outside of a Sabbat BH red-list/trophy deck then (which
matches the set at least). Bit of a shame though that Non-Sabbat don't
get any benefit from this trophy. I was disappointed that some of the
Archetypes were related purely to a sect, and clearly this is the way
it will go with trophies. This is losing potential playability of a
"cardtype" to deckbuilding.
I don't expect all clans/sects to get something of everything, but a
Trophy or an Archetype is not something that I would have expected to
see be specific to a sect (or trophies to be Camarilla at least if you
were to play strictly to cannon) as anyone should be able to "win" and
gain a benefit from a Trophy, and anyone could potentially have a
particular archetype trait to their personality, regardless of what
clan/sect they belong to.
(Before anyone says, yes anyone can gain this trophy, and gain it's
benefit of becoming Sabbat, BH and gain 4 blood, but becoming Sabbat/
BH may be detrimental to your game plan, and you can't even use it in
a hosing way, as you could give it to a vampire (say Arika) controlled
by someone else, to make them Sabbat/BH, but they would then just say,
I'll burn the card instead).
Just a small rant, you can get back to normal service now.
Andy
JH
really cool to make a big bad Camarilla vampire, let's say Karsh, into
an Archon or Alastor and then give him that trophy to make him Sabbat.
After that you could make him also a Templar. Think of him with three
innate rushes and an Assault Rifle :)
as...@hotmail.com
Any chance of making cards that are easier to read?
LSJ
Given the space available and the limitations of printing technology, the cards
have to assume a knowledge of English grammar.
d
I can read this card fine, but in defense of the confused, it would be
much clearer if the two halves of the OR conjuction where switched
around.
So: When this card is moved to a vampire, that vampire can choose to
burn this card
or else that vampire gains 4 blood, becomes sabbat and untaps.
else is even shorter than instead.
real text:
Peter D Bakija
"d" <david.cor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I can read this card fine, but in defense of the confused, it would be
> much clearer if the two halves of the OR conjuction where switched
> around.
In further defense of the confused, I am a fairly well educated native
English speaker, and I'm not completely sure what the card is supposed
to do in an absolute sense. But then, I am well known to use double
negatives...
> So: When this card is moved to a vampire, that vampire can choose to
> burn this card
> or else that vampire gains 4 blood, becomes sabbat and untaps.
If this is what the card actually does (i.e. you can choose to have the
card either do A: Nothing or B: Gain you 4 blood, make you Sabbat, and
untap you), what possible reason is there to have option A on the card?
Aren't Trophies completely optional? In what circumstance would you burn
a Red List vampire, gain yourself Trophy: Chosen, and then just burn it?
On first read, I assumed that the card gave you 4 blood and then either
made you Sabbat and untapped you *or* it didn't (as you chose the "burn
this card" aspect instead of the "become Sabbat and untap" option). But
in either case, you gained 4 blood. Is this *not* how the card works?
Peter D Bakija
pd...@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6/vtes.html
d
> In article <1173538820.379453.184...@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> If this is what the card actually does (i.e. you can choose to have the
> card either do A: Nothing or B: Gain you 4 blood, make you Sabbat, and
> untap you), what possible reason is there to have option A on the card?
> Aren't Trophies completely optional? In what circumstance would you burn
> a Red List vampire, gain yourself Trophy: Chosen, and then just burn it?
LSJ confirms this is how it works above in the thread (ie. option 3).
You've possibly never seen more than 1 trophy deck at a table:
here's the rulebook:
"When any vampire burns a Red List minion in combat or as a (D) action
(including diablerie), the controller of the trophy may choose to move
the trophy to that vampire."
So someone else can reward your vamp-burning vampire with one of their
trophies (that they've already played, not from their library), fyi.
The Lasombra
<pd...@lightlink.com> wrote:
>Aren't Trophies completely optional?
Yes and no.
The controller of Trophy Master cards in play can apply them to a
vampire, or not, when the condition of burning a Red List minion in
combat or as a (D) action is fulfilled.
You (my grand-predator) burn the Red-Listed minion of my predator
(that I probably made Red List). I can give you my in-play Trophies
for that action. Or not. At my discretion. You, in this example,
have no choice in the matter. I can give you this Trophy that makes
your Inner Circle member Sabbat.
You can only turn down this wonderful promotion via card text.
Peter D Bakija
The Lasombra <TheLa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> You (my grand-predator) burn the Red-Listed minion of my predator
> (that I probably made Red List). I can give you my in-play Trophies
> for that action. Or not. At my discretion. You, in this example,
> have no choice in the matter. I can give you this Trophy that makes
> your Inner Circle member Sabbat.
>
> You can only turn down this wonderful promotion via card text.
Oh, ok. That makes sense then.
Peter D Bakija
"d" <david.cor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You've possibly never seen more than 1 trophy deck at a table:
> here's the rulebook:
> "When any vampire burns a Red List minion in combat or as a (D) action
> (including diablerie), the controller of the trophy may choose to move
> the trophy to that vampire."
Heh. I've never actually seen a single Trophy deck at a table, really.
But now that I realize that I can give you a Trophy, then the burn
option of Chosen makes sense.
as...@hotmail.com
I agree with "d" below. And I have to say that White Wolf should take
into account that very many players do not have english as native
language.
XZealot
Yes, it is especially good for making Independant Assimites into Black
Hand Assimtes. Can you say Thetmes with a Shakar?
Commments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
Scapelli, The Family "Mechanic"
perhaps a colon and semi colon could clearly separate them