[LSJ] Spell of life
agzocgud
Is there any way to contest them?
Can you put two copies of the same crypt cards as mummies in to play?
tony...@gmail.com
No. The name of the crypt card is unique to that "mummie".
Therefore illegal to have two copies of the same vampire pop out as
mummies due to self contesting.
LSJ
Correct.
Alex Ek
Is the name of the cards unique as Mummies or is it unique when
considering all cards. Meaning, will a mummy contest with a vampire that
has the same name?
Also, another question at our release. The strike with bundi that is
both a hand and a melee strike. Does it work under immortal grapple (the
fact that it's also a melee strike confused me)? Can you use claws with
bundi?
//Alex
LSJ
> LSJ skrev:
>> tony...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On 30 Sep, 17:07, agzocgud <per_math...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Spell of life states that unique mummys are created.
>>>> Is there any way to contest them?
>>>> Can you put two copies of the same crypt cards as mummies in to play?
>>>
>>> No. The name of the crypt card is unique to that "mummie".
>>> Therefore illegal to have two copies of the same vampire pop out as
>>> mummies due to self contesting.
>>
>> Correct.
>
> Is the name of the cards unique as Mummies or is it unique when
> considering all cards. Meaning, will a mummy contest with a vampire that
> has the same name?
Yes.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/fd1518b5bd58b116
> Also, another question at our release. The strike with bundi that is
> both a hand and a melee strike. Does it work under immortal grapple (the
> fact that it's also a melee strike confused me)? Can you use claws with
> bundi?
Yes.
echia...@yahoo.com
> >>>> Is there any way to contest them?
> >>>> Can you put two copies of the same crypt cards as mummies in to play?
>
> >>> No. The name of the crypt card is unique to that "mummie".
> >>> Therefore illegal to have two copies of the same vampire pop out as
> >>> mummies due to self contesting.
>
> >> Correct.
>
> > Is the name of the cards unique as Mummies or is it unique when
> > considering all cards. Meaning, will a mummy contest with a vampire that
> > has the same name?
>
What if the Mummy is a crypt card that normally does not contest (e.g.
Aabbt Kindred, Fida'i, Tupdog, Hermanas Hambrienta, and Jimmy Dunn
though his case differs a bit)? So could an Aabbt Kindred use Spell of
Life to bring out an Aabbt Kindred mummy? Spell of Life says the
mummies are Unique but card text of the Aabbt in play says they do not
contest so which effect would take precedence?
LSJ
?
Answered directly in the linked article.
Oortje
>
> > What if the Mummy is a crypt card that normally does not contest (e.g.
> > Aabbt Kindred, Fida'i, Tupdog, Hermanas Hambrienta, and Jimmy Dunn
> > though his case differs a bit)? So could an Aabbt Kindred use Spell of
> > Life to bring out an Aabbt Kindred mummy? Spell of Life says the
> > mummies are Unique but card text of the Aabbt in play says they do not
> > contest so which effect would take precedence?
do not contest take precedence over unique.
I dont have the LotN cards yet. what does the card say (card text?)
gpett...@gmail.com
wrote:
Not contesting is a special ability of the vampire. The mummy has no
such special ability. They contest.
--
- Gregory Stuart Pettigrew
François
> >>> On 30 Sep, 17:07, agzocgud <per_math...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Spell of life states that unique mummys are created.
> >>>> Is there any way to contest them?
> >>>> Can you put two copies of the same crypt cards as mummies in to play?
>
> >>> No. The name of the crypt card is unique to that "mummie".
> >>> Therefore illegal to have two copies of the same vampire pop out as
> >>> mummies due to self contesting.
>
> >> Correct.
>
> > Is the name of the cards unique as Mummies or is it unique when
> > considering all cards. Meaning, will a mummy contest with a vampire that
> > has the same name?
>
>
If I control a Nefertiti mummy, can my Aabbt Kindred vampires perform
D actions ?
When can I burn the five spells of life ? Anytime since this is an
option allowed by a card in play, or when I resolve a spell of Life
action (similar to burning corruption counters only when the
Corruption action resolves) ?
Thank you,
Francois
LSJ
> If I control a Nefertiti mummy, can my Aabbt Kindred vampires perform
> D actions ?
Yes. The ready mummmy Nefertiti is a ready Nefertiti.
> When can I burn the five spells of life ? Anytime since this is an
> option allowed by a card in play, or when I resolve a spell of Life
> action (similar to burning corruption counters only when the
> Corruption action resolves) ?
Any time. Each is a card in play.
Jozxyqk
> >> Yes.http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/fd15...
> >
> >
> >
> > What if the Mummy is a crypt card that normally does not contest (e.g.
> > Aabbt Kindred, Fida'i, Tupdog, Hermanas Hambrienta, and Jimmy Dunn
> > though his case differs a bit)? So could an Aabbt Kindred use Spell of
> > Life to bring out an Aabbt Kindred mummy? Spell of Life says the
> > mummies are Unique but card text of the Aabbt in play says they do not
> > contest so which effect would take precedence?
> ?
> Answered directly in the linked article.
So, to confirm:
If a Jimmy Dunn Mummy ("Mummy Dunn") comes into play via Spell of Life,
and there's a ready Jimmy Dunn vampire, then the Jimmy vampire burns by his
own card text?
François
> François wrote:
> > If I control a Nefertiti mummy, can my Aabbt Kindred vampires perform
> > D actions ?
>
> Yes. The ready mummmy Nefertiti is a ready Nefertiti.
>
Nice !
Another question : does an Aabbt vampire card text ("Aabbt kindred are
not unique and do not contest" allow Aabbt mummies not to contest each
other ? I am not sure I understand correctly your answer on the
Presence forum.
Thank you again,
Francois
LSJ
> Another question : does an Aabbt vampire card text ("Aabbt kindred are
> not unique and do not contest" allow Aabbt mummies not to contest each
> other ? I am not sure I understand correctly your answer on the
> Presence forum.
?
The post on the NG that referenced the Presence article and the Presence article
itself are each unequivocal on that point.
Presence: http://presence.vekn.org/viewtopic.php?p=15808#15808
LSJ wrote:
> Merlin wrote:
>> The way the card is worded it would seem that 5x Aabbt
>> mummified would self-contest and therefore burn down to one.
>
> Correct. Well, except the "burned down to one" part. Since they would
> self-contest, you are not allowed to bring them all out -- you can bring
> out only one.
>
> And note that unique Aabbt mummies would not contest with non-unique
> Aabbt vampires in play.
Newsgroup:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/fd1518b5bd58b116
> LSJ wrote:
>> deadsl...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> I think, their special/text of "not unique" do not apply, and so Mummy
>> Aabbts contests each other, but not the Vampire Aabbts.
>
> Correct.
François
> François wrote:
> > Another question : does an Aabbt vampire card text ("Aabbt kindred are
> > not unique and do not contest" allow Aabbt mummies not to contest each
> > other ? I am not sure I understand correctly your answer on the
> > Presence forum.
>
> ?
>
> The post on the NG that referenced the Presence article and the Presence article
> itself are each unequivocal on that point.
I am sorry, english being not my native language, I am always afraid
to misunderstand.
The sentence I was not sure of was :
>
> LSJ wrote:
>
> > And note that unique Aabbt mummies would not contest with non-unique
> > Aabbt vampires in play.
that I misread : "And note that unique Aabbt mummies would not
contest (with each other) with (=if there is also) non-unique Aabbt
vampires in play."
But I understand now that it means an Aabbt mummy does not contest an
Aabbt vampire and only that.
I was wondering if, since Aabbt Kindred card text on uniqueness refer
to all Aabbt Kindred in play ("Aabbt Kindred are not unique"), and
since Aabbt mummies and Aabbt vampires are all Aabbt Kindred (same as
Nefertiti vampire and Nefertiti mummy being both Nefertitis), an Aabbt
Kindred vampire being in play made all Aabbt Kindred (vampires and
mummies) non unique (and allowed to control several Aabbt mummies) ?
Francois
Blooded Sand
with an Advanced vampire?
LSJ
> If Nefertiti Mummy allows Aabt to act, can a basic version mummy merge
> with an Advanced vampire?
>
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/rulebook.html#sec1_5 describes the rules
on merging.
Thrall of Arika
> I was wondering if, since Aabbt Kindred card text on uniqueness refer
> to all Aabbt Kindred in play ("Aabbt Kindred are not unique"), and
> since Aabbt mummies and Aabbt vampires are all Aabbt Kindred (same as
> Nefertiti vampire and Nefertiti mummy being both Nefertitis), an Aabbt
> Kindred vampire being in play made all Aabbt Kindred (vampires and
> mummies) non unique (and allowed to control several Aabbt mummies) ?
>
> Francois
No, a closer look at the Unique and Contesting rules is needed to see
how these types of cards interact. By default, all vampires are
considered Unique. Aabbt Kindred and the like have over-riding card
text that states that this particular vampire isn't Unique, and thus
do not contest. (The 'do not contest' text is reminder text. See
Tupdog, which does not have such text.)
Spell of Life brings 5 crypt cards into play and each one is
considered a Unique Mummy ally. They do not retain their special text.
And so the Aabbt Mummy has no text stating that it is not Unique,
unlikely all the Aabbt vampires.
Contesting only happens when a second, unique copy of the card comes
into play. Since all the Aabbt vampires are not unique, they do not
contest with the unique Aabbt mummy.
>From 4.1 of the rulebook:
"Some of the cards in the game represent unique resources, such as
specific locations, equipment or people. These cards will be
identified as "unique" in their card text. In addition, all vampire
cards represent unique vampires. If more than one copy of a unique
card is brought into play, that means control of the card is being
contested. "
On Oct 1, 6:57 am, Blooded Sand <sandm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If Nefertiti Mummy allows Aabt to act, can a basic version mummy merge
> with an Advanced vampire?
As the rules LSJ quoted state, Nefertiti Mummy is not a vampire, so
you cannot merge them.
>From rule 1.5:
"In addition, if you already control the advancement or the associated
regular "base" vampire and the other version of the vampire is in your
uncontrolled region, then you can spend 4 transfers and 1 pool to move
the vampire card from your uncontrolled region to the controlled
vampire card ..."
Chris, Thrall of Arika
witness1
wrote:
> On Oct 1, 6:57 am, Blooded Sand <sandm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > If Nefertiti Mummy allows Aabt to act, can a basic version mummy merge
> > with an Advanced vampire?
>
> As the rules LSJ quoted state, Nefertiti Mummy is not a vampire, so
> you cannot merge them.
>
> >From rule 1.5:
>
> "In addition, if you already control the advancement or the associated
> regular "base" vampire and the other version of the vampire is in your
> uncontrolled region, then you can spend 4 transfers and 1 pool to move
> the vampire card from your uncontrolled region to the controlled
> vampire card ..."
>
> Chris, Thrall of Arika
There go my hopes of seeing Carlton Van Wyk (Hunter) [Advanced] :(
witness1
floppyzedolfin
situations could clear things up.
1/ My prey controls 1 mummified Aabt Kindred, and 1 Aabt Kindred
vampire.
In this easy case, mummified Aabt Kindred will not contest Aabt
Kindred vampire, and Aabt Kindred Vampire will not contest mummified
Aabt Kindred, because of Aabt Kindred vampire's card text.
2/ My prey controls 1 mummified Aabt Kindred.
I play enough Spell of Life to get an mummified Aabt Kindred. There
are no other Aabt Kindred at the table.
Those two Aabt Kindred do contest each other.
These two examples are explained above, I hope I've got that part
correct :)
3/ My prey controls 1 mummified Aabt Kindred, and 1 Aabt Kindred
vampire.
I play enough Spell of Life to get an mummified Aabt Kindred.
Which one is correct :
a - Aabt Kindred do contest one another, whether an Aabt Kindred
vampire is in play or not, since mummified Aabt Kindred are unique,
and nothnig is specified about mummified Aabt Kindred contesting
another mummified Aabt Kindred.
b - Aabt Kindred vampire 's cardtext "Aabt Kindred do not contest"
applies to all Aabt Kindred, including both vampires and mummified
Aabt Kindred, hence mummified Aabt Kindred do not contest one another.
-----
Additional questions coming through my mind :
4 - My prey plays Chain of Command on 1 vampire from her crypt. That
vampire is Black Lotus. At that moment, I decide to burn 5 of my Spell
of Life to bring someone from my uncontrolled to play. I chose Black
Lotus, putting in play a Black Lotus mummified.
Of course, there should be a contest.
What happens :
a - Black Lotus vampire and mummified Black Lotus do contest. If
mummified Black Lotus is yielded, Black Lotus vampire will enter play
during my prey's untap phase, and immediately go under the crypt.
b - Black Lotus vampire and mummified Black Lotus would contest. But
if that happened, Black Lotus vampire would meet Chain of Command's
requirements to go back to the crypt, so Black Lotus vampire goes
immediately back under the crypt. Mummified Black Lotus is not "out of
game" due to contest.
c - Black Lotus vampire and mummified Black Lotus do contest, but as
soon as contest begins, Black Lotus vampire meets Chain of Command's
requirements to go back under the crypt, and there she goes. Mummified
Black Lotus will come back to the game during my untap phase.
Now, let's see things under an other angle.
5 - Can I play Chain of Command on Black Lotus if my prey controls a
ready mummified Black Lotus ? (Chain of Command reads "You cannot
choose any unique vampires already in play.")
If yes,
6 -
a - same as 4- a
b - same as 4 - b
c - same as 4 - c
-----
Dumb questions *will* follow.
Thrall of Arika
> I am as much puzzled as François is, maybe having "concrete"
> situations could clear things up.
>
> 1/ My prey controls 1 mummified Aabt Kindred, and 1 Aabt Kindred
> vampire.
> In this easy case, mummified Aabt Kindred will not contest Aabt
> Kindred vampire, and Aabt Kindred Vampire will not contest mummified
> Aabt Kindred, because of Aabt Kindred vampire's card text.
>
satisfy the rules needed to contest the unique Aabbt Kindred mummy.
> 2/ My prey controls 1 mummified Aabt Kindred.
> I play enough Spell of Life to get an mummified Aabt Kindred. There
> are no other Aabt Kindred at the table.
> Those two Aabt Kindred do contest each other.
>
> These two examples are explained above, I hope I've got that part
> correct :)
>
Yes, both Aabbt Kindred mummies are unique allies, and thus would
contest.
> 3/ My prey controls 1 mummified Aabt Kindred, and 1 Aabt Kindred
> vampire.
> I play enough Spell of Life to get an mummified Aabt Kindred.
> Which one is correct :
> a - Aabt Kindred do contest one another, whether an Aabt Kindred
> vampire is in play or not, since mummified Aabt Kindred are unique,
> and nothnig is specified about mummified Aabt Kindred contesting
> another mummified Aabt Kindred.
> b - Aabt Kindred vampire 's cardtext "Aabt Kindred do not contest"
> applies to all Aabt Kindred, including both vampires and mummified
> Aabt Kindred, hence mummified Aabt Kindred do not contest one another.
>
Option a) Aabbt Kindred mummies contest, and are put out of play as
per contesting rules. Aabbt Kindred vampire does not contest, per its
own card text.
It all comes down to the card text over-riding the default rules of
the game. We start with the Unique concept, where a second Unique card
of the same name will contest the first. Aabbt Kindred vampire over-
rides that rule with its own card text, stating that Aabbt Kindred are
not Unique, and thus do not contest. Spell of Life then over-rides the
card text of Aabbt Kindred by making them a unique ally, and removing
the orginal card text.
> -----
>
> Additional questions coming through my mind :
>
> 4 - My prey plays Chain of Command on 1 vampire from her crypt. That
> vampire is Black Lotus. At that moment, I decide to burn 5 of my Spell
> of Life to bring someone from my uncontrolled to play. I chose Black
> Lotus, putting in play a Black Lotus mummified.
> Of course, there should be a contest.
> What happens :
> a - Black Lotus vampire and mummified Black Lotus do contest. If
> mummified Black Lotus is yielded, Black Lotus vampire will enter play
> during my prey's untap phase, and immediately go under the crypt.
> b - Black Lotus vampire and mummified Black Lotus would contest. But
> if that happened, Black Lotus vampire would meet Chain of Command's
> requirements to go back to the crypt, so Black Lotus vampire goes
> immediately back under the crypt. Mummified Black Lotus is not "out of
> game" due to contest.
> c - Black Lotus vampire and mummified Black Lotus do contest, but as
> soon as contest begins, Black Lotus vampire meets Chain of Command's
> requirements to go back under the crypt, and there she goes. Mummified
> Black Lotus will come back to the game during my untap phase.
A bit of a mind bender. It would seem to me that you follow the steps
of what happens.
Chained Black Lotus comes into play.
You activate the Spell of Life, and bring out a Mummified Black Lotus.
Since both Black Lotuses are unique, they contest, and are flipped
over and put out of play.
Chain of Command is finish, as now all the chained vampires that could
bleed have done so (in this case none, as Chained Black Lotus is out
of play). Chained Black Lotus goes to the bottom of your prey's crypt.
During your next untap phase, you control the only unique Black Lotus,
and so Mummified Black Lotus comes back into play.
So option c)
> Now, let's see things under an other angle.
> 5 - Can I play Chain of Command on Black Lotus if my prey controls a
> ready mummified Black Lotus ? (Chain of Command reads "You cannot
> choose any unique vampires already in play.")
> If yes,
> 6 -
> a - same as 4- a
> b - same as 4 - b
> c - same as 4 - c
Nothing in card text seems to deny this. As you said, Chain of Command
just states you cannot choose unique vampires in play. The Mummified
Black Lotus isn't a vampire, she is a mummy ally. But whether this
would be a useful action for you to take, is another thing.
Following the steps of play:
You bring out Chained Black Lotus.
Chained Black Lotus contests with Mummified Black Lotus. Both are
turned over and put out of play.
If she was the only chained vampire, Chain of Command finishes, and
Chained Black Lotus goes to bottom of your crypt. Otherwise, resolve
the other bleed actions, then when finished those, Chained Black Lotus
goes to the bottom of your crypt.
During your prey's untap phase, there is no contested Black Lotus, so
their copy comes back into play.
About the only sticking point I see is the effect of being out of play
has on the ending of Chain of Command. I can see an argument made that
an out of play card isn't affected by cards/effects in the game. I
presume the stipulation that you couldn't pick a unique vampire in
play on Chain of Command was to avoid this kind of situation. The only
sort of parallel I can think of is Descent into Darkness, which places
your vampire out of play. Though this suggests to me that as the out
of play vampire is still 'targetted' by Descent, then likewise chained
vampires are by Chain of Command.
> Dumb questions *will* follow.
The only 'dumb' questions are those not asked.
Chris, Thrall of Arika
LSJ
Correct.
Hmm, no. Contested Black Lotus vampire is out of play so the CoC can't find her.
The Black Lotus vampire escapes the threshing floor of the CoC and sticks around
until yielded or won. If Black Lotus vampire wins the contest, she's a real
vampire and sticks around (the CoC effect isn't lingering on the corner waiting
for the contest to end).
>> Now, let's see things under an other angle.
>> 5 - Can I play Chain of Command on Black Lotus if my prey controls a
>> ready mummified Black Lotus ? (Chain of Command reads "You cannot
>> choose any unique vampires already in play.")
>> If yes,
>> 6 -
>> a - same as 4- a
>> b - same as 4 - b
>> c - same as 4 - c
Same as above -- contesting begins, shielding vampire Black Lotus from the CoC.
dvorax
Mind Numb, etc., which set their own burning at some time, too? An
example: I play Khabar: Glory with my vampire, then I banish him and
do not bring him out in my influence phase. On my next turn I bring
him out with Khabar: Glory still attached. My "next untap phase" since
reseolving K:G, already passed. What happens with K:G?
a) it burns immediately
b) it burns at my next untap phase, when it is in play
c) it never burns
Thanks,
dvorax.
LSJ
> Does this "escape from burning" apply to cards like Khabar: Glory,
> Mind Numb, etc., which set their own burning at some time, too? An
> example: I play Khabar: Glory with my vampire, then I banish him and
> do not bring him out in my influence phase. On my next turn I bring
> him out with Khabar: Glory still attached. My "next untap phase" since
> reseolving K:G, already passed. What happens with K:G?
> a) it burns immediately
> b) it burns at my next untap phase, when it is in play
> c) it never burns
B.
Salem
Some related questions (which are pretty much a question about the same
effect):
From the rules on advanced vampires:
"The advanced vampire (merged or not) will contest other copies of the
same vampire (advanced or not) in play, as usual."
Since the mummies are not vampires, can i have a mummy nefertiti, and
also a mummy nefertiti (advanced) without self-contesting?
Would my nefertiti mummy contest my prey's nefertiti (advanced) vampire?
--
salem
(replace 'hotmail' with 'yahoo' to email)
witness1
Any unique card named Nefertiti contests any other unique card named
Nefertiti (advanced or not).
witness1
Archibald Zimonyi
>
> - Visa citerad text -
Why? There could always be an avanced (or alternate) version of the
same card which under normal rules is either burned or contests.
However cardtext takes precedence over rules and the Advanced version
could say something like "if you already control Carlton, this copy
merges with the other copy where the cardtext of both cards apply yada
yada".
No problem there if you ask me.
Archie
Archibald Zimonyi
I would say no as the name of the card is the same, Nefertiti. The
symbol that shows if a vampire is an Advanced version of the same does
not affect the name of the card.
Archie
witness1
Putting all that text on the card takes up all the space you'd want to
use giving it abilities worth merging for. It'd be pretty wonky to
change the rules and allow a crypt card generically to merge with any
same-named card in play without screwing up Spell of Life. (It's still
be easy enough to add "imbued" to the list of mergeable card types,
but that doesn't help this case).
> No problem there if you ask me.
I'll settle for a Carlton "Doctor119" Van Wyk that doesn't contest
because he has a different name :)
(And Wendell "Crusader17" Delburton, and Jake "Bookworm55" Washington)
> Archie