Dabbler Question: LSJ
John Whelan
Dabbler
Master: archtype: trifle
Put this card on a vampire you control. Once each turn when this
vampire uses 3 or more Disciplines to play cards during an action, he
or she may gain one blood from the blood bank or burn 1 blood to untap
(after the action is resolved). A vampire can have only one archtype.
Question:
Sheldon is a Dabbler. It is his predator's durn. A minion bleeds.
Sheldon plays Read the Winds followed by Thrown Gate. A second minion
hunts. A 3rd minion now bleeds.
May Sheldon now burn one blood to untap, since he used 3 disciples to
play cards during one earlier action? Or must he make that decision
at the point where that action resolved?
Satrapa
IMHO since it is stated "after the action is resolved" you may untap
after the combat, or if this minion uses card (for example form of
mist) to continue this action, after it is resolved.
John Whelan
That, in the example, is what Sheldon is trying to do. Question is,
how long after. Must it be more-or-less immediately?
An action modifier or reaction card, with similar wording, would take
place during a very narrow window, during the action but after
resolution. No such restriction is explicit here, but it may be
implied.
LSJ
> Satrapa wrote:
> > On 10 Lut, 05:39, John Whelan <jwjbwhe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Card Text:
>
> > > Dabbler
> > > Master: archtype: trifle
> > > Put this card on a vampire you control. Once each turn when this
> > > vampire uses 3 or more Disciplines to play cards during an action, he
> > > or she may gain one blood from the blood bank or burn 1 blood to untap
> > > (after the action is resolved). A vampire can have only one archtype.
>
> > > Question:
>
> > > Sheldon is a Dabbler. It is his predator's durn. A minion bleeds.
> > > Sheldon plays Read the Winds followed by Thrown Gate. A second minion
> > > hunts. A 3rd minion now bleeds.
>
> > > May Sheldon now burn one blood to untap, since he used 3 disciples to
> > > play cards during one earlier action? Or must he make that decision
> > > at the point where that action resolved?
>
> > IMHO since it is stated "after the action is resolved" you may untap
> > after the combat, or if this minion uses card (for example form of
> > mist) to continue this action, after it is resolved.
>
> That, in the example, is what Sheldon is trying to do. Question is,
> how long after. Must it be more-or-less immediately?
That seems to be what the reply addressed: he can do so only when
stated (i.e., more or less immediately). It does not grant a lingering
ability to use at some point in the future.
cf. all other uses of "after". (discard afterward, As the Crow, etc.)
> An action modifier or reaction card, with similar wording, would take
> place during a very narrow window, during the action but after
> resolution. No such restriction is explicit here, but it may be
> implied.
It is just as explicit as the action modifier cases.
John Whelan
Then "when stated" is the point when a minion uses 3 or more
disciplines to play cards during an action; but there is no such point
since one may normally use a maximum of 2 disciplines at once. We can
read it as the point when a minion HAS used 3 or more disciplines to
play cards during the action, but the parenthetical text says it does
not occur at that point, but at some time thereafter.
There are two other clues as to timing. We know it occurs during the
same turn, and that it occurs after the action resolves. Two possible
interpretations are possible. I merely asked which was correct.
> > An action modifier or reaction card, with similar wording, would take
> > place during a very narrow window, during the action but after
> > resolution. No such restriction is explicit here, but it may be
> > implied.
>
> It is just as explicit as the action modifier cases.
No. The action modifier cases are supported by the rulebook which
states that they may only be played during an action, and rulings
about when actions resolve or are considered successful. This Master
card faces no such limitation.
You could have simply said "yes, it must be more or less immediately"
and I would have been fine with the ruling. But if you are going to
tell me I should not have been confused, I am going to argue with you.
LSJ
> > > > > Dabbler
> > > > > Master: archtype: trifle
> > > > > Put this card on a vampire you control. Once each turn when this
> > > > > vampire uses 3 or more Disciplines to play cards during an action, he
> > > > > or she may gain one blood from the blood bank or burn 1 blood to untap
> > > > > (after the action is resolved). A vampire can have only one archtype.
> You could have simply said "yes, it must be more or less immediately"
The answer is: "Yes, more or less immediately after resolving the
action."
The card allows a blood gain or blood-to-untap at a specified time,
contingent on a certain criteria being met during the action.
That is, when you meet the criteria, you gain the ability either to
gain a blood after or to spend a blood to untap. That ability is
applied (or not -- it is optional) after the action is resolved.
ira...@gmail.com
So, is this a correct play:
I play Read the Winds. Combat occurs. Play Thrown Gate.
At this point, I say, "I'm triggering the Dabbler ability to gain 1
blood after the action is resolved."
Then the combat ends, then the action resolves, then my vamp gains 1
blood.
Is this also correct:
So, is this a correct play:
I play Read the Winds. Combat occurs. Play Thrown Gate.
At this point, I say, "I'm triggering the Dabbler ability to burn 1
blood to untap after the action is resolved."
Then the combat ends, then the action resolves, then my vamp burns 1
blood to untap?
On a related but different note, if my Thrown Gate gets DI'ed, does
Dabbler still trigger? I think the answer is "yes" since the Thrown
Gate was still played.
Thanks,
Ira
LSJ
> On Feb 10, 7:13 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 10, 9:34 am, John Whelan <jwjbwhe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > Dabbler
> > > > > > > Master: archtype: trifle
> > > > > > > Put this card on a vampire you control. Once each turn when this
> > > > > > > vampire uses 3 or more Disciplines to play cards during an action, he
> > > > > > > or she may gain one blood from the blood bank or burn 1 blood to untap
> > > > > > > (after the action is resolved). A vampire can have only one archtype.
> > > You could have simply said "yes, it must be more or less immediately"
>
> > The answer is: "Yes, more or less immediately after resolving the
> > action."
> > The card allows a blood gain or blood-to-untap at a specified time,
> > contingent on a certain criteria being met during the action.
>
> > That is, when you meet the criteria, you gain the ability either to
> > gain a blood after or to spend a blood to untap. That ability is
> > applied (or not -- it is optional) after the action is resolved.
>
> So, is this a correct play:
> I play Read the Winds. Combat occurs. Play Thrown Gate.
> At this point, I say, "I'm triggering the Dabbler ability to gain 1
> blood after the action is resolved."
> Then the combat ends, then the action resolves, then my vamp gains 1
> blood.
You decide after the action resolves whether to use it and, if you
decide to use it, in which manner you use it.
> On a related but different note, if my Thrown Gate gets DI'ed, does
> Dabbler still trigger? I think the answer is "yes" since the Thrown
> Gate was still played.
Yes.
ira...@gmail.com
> On Feb 10, 6:23 pm, "ira...@gmail.com" <ira...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Feb 10, 9:34 am, John Whelan <jwjbwhe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > Dabbler
> > > > > > > > Master: archtype: trifle
> > > > > > > > Put this card on a vampire you control. Once each turn when this
> > > > > > > > vampire uses 3 or more Disciplines to play cards during an action, he
> > > > > > > > or she may gain one blood from the blood bank or burn 1 blood to untap
> > > > > > > > (after the action is resolved). A vampire can have only one archtype.
If a vampire with Dabbler plays Keystone Kine (with all 3
disciplines), does Dabbler activate?
I think the answer is, "Yes, regardless of whether or not an ally is
burned."
Thanks,
Ira
ira...@gmail.com
Hello LSJ,
I never saw an answer to the question above, and would love
confirmation.
Thanks,
Ira
ira...@gmail.com
Hello LSJ,
Any answer on this one?
Thanks,
Ira
LSJ
Confirmed: if you use three Disciplines to play Keystone Kine, you've
used three Disciplines.