Vidal Jarbeaux, master of Striga?
Rehlow
card requiring Striga? Can he only play it at "inferior"? If he can
play a card requiring Striga; "inferior" Striga and "superior" Striga
sound like different requirements to me, so Vidal could play Striga
twice a game as long as it is at different levels, correct?
Or is Striga an infernal vampire trait? The only existing card to
grant Striga can only be played on an infernal vampire, but I'm not
sure that makes Striga an infernal trait.
Thanks.
Later,
~Rehlow
Vidal can meet the clan, sect, or non-infernal vampire trait (e.g.
anarch) requirement to play any card. He can meet a given requirement
only once each game. +1 bleed.
Sim
Striga is not a discipline and is not specifically infernal.
Striga does state that it goes away if the Vampire is not infernal on
the "discipline" card but that card is not being used here.
I can't see any reason why it would not work.
John Flournoy
Scott, presumably you had some text to add and posted without it
inadvertantly...
-John
LSJ
> Since Vidal can play a card requiring flight once a game can he play a
> card requiring Striga?
No. Neither Striga nor Maleficia are vampire traits.
Jozxyqk
If, in some future set, a vampire were printed that had Maleficia (much as
there are vampires printed with Flight), would it then be a "non-infernal
vampire trait"?
simcof
Is there a list somewhere of all vampire traits? How do we know if
something is a trait?
Chris Berger
This.
If Flight is a trait (it is a trait, right?), and Striga and Maleficia
are not traits and also not disciplines, then where is the list of
things that are (or are not) traits?
Haze
If Aye and Orun are not vampire traits, and Conviction is not an
Imbued trait, then we can simply make a list of everything in the game
that is not a trait.
.44 Magnum - NOT trait
AK-47 - NOT trait
Aaron's Feeding Razor - NOT trait (ok let's assume all equipment from
now on are not traits)
Abbot - NOT trait
Ablative Skin - NOT trait
Abombwe - NOT trait, it's a discipline
Aching Beauty - NOT trait
Akunanse Kholo - NOT trait, it's a title
Alastor - NOT trait
Anachronism - NOT trait
Antithesis - NOT trait
Archon - NOT trait
this is gonna take a while :(
Obtenebration
then?
The rulebook doesn't mention how to handle Striga since it is not a
discipline. The only cards that tell you how to play them are the
Striga master cards. So if I don't have a Striga master in play what
tells me my vampire can or can not play that card? Flight cards used
to say, ...requires a minion with flight. But current versions seem
to have lost that text, and if I open the rulebook to figure out how
to play any Flight/Striga ect it gives me no guidence.
---
"1.6.3
... In many cases, a minion card will have a Discipline symbol, a clan
symbol and/or a blood cost; in these cases, the card can only be
played by a vampire who meets the requirements."
"
1.5.3 ...Rules for clan requirements...
1.5.4
Disciplines: These are supernatural powers that vampires possess. The
Disciplines possessed by the vampire are represented by the group of
symbols at the bottom of the attribute bar. The vampire's Disciplines
determine which library cards he can play. If a library card requires
a Discipline (noted by a Discipline symbol on the attribute bar of the
library card), then only vampires who have that Discipline can play
it.
Each of a vampire's Discipline symbols is in the shape of either a
square or a diamond. A square-shaped Discipline symbol means that the
vampire has one level of that Discipline, the basic level; he can use
only the basic (plain text) effect listed on a card that requires that
Discipline. A Discipline symbol within a diamond signifies that the
vampire has an additional level of that Discpline, the superior level,
and therefore may opt to use either the basic (plain text) or the
superior (bold) effect listed on the card (but not both)."
---
Those are the only references in the rulebook that I can find saying
who can play cards that have requirements. Since Striga specifically
says it is not a discipline, then you can not use the rules in the
Disciplines section to govern who can play them without extra text or
a clarification in the rulebook.
LSJ
wrote:
> What is preventing a vampire from playing a Striga(+Maleficia) card
> then?
Usually a failure to meet the requirements printed on the card.
Obtenebration
> > then?
>
> Usually a failure to meet the requirements printed on the card.
Except there is no requirement printed on the card. That symbol is
not a discpline listed in the rules, and card text even clarifies
that. It means as much to gameplay as the expansion symbol. Flight
used to work because every card said it required Flight.
The rulebook doesn't say Flight, Striga, and Maleficia are
requirements to play a card, so that doesn't work.
Take this scenario:
A player attempts to play any Striga card using a Striga level on it.
An illegal play as design intended obviously. But where in the rules
is this defined as an illegal play? Where do you point to say that is
a requirement and that requirement is defined in a rulebook?
LSJ
wrote:
> > > What is preventing a vampire from playing a Striga(+Maleficia) card
> > > then?
>
> > Usually a failure to meet the requirements printed on the card.
>
> Except there is no requirement printed on the card. That symbol is
> not a discpline listed in the rules, and card text even clarifies
> that. It means as much to gameplay as the expansion symbol. Flight
> used to work because every card said it required Flight.
>
> The rulebook doesn't say Flight, Striga, and Maleficia are
> requirements to play a card, so that doesn't work.
Whatever you say.
If you've convinced yourself that this is a valid line, then there's
nothing I can say to fix that, sorry.
Chris Berger
> On Feb 25, 10:00 pm, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 25, 9:34 pm, simcof <sim...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 26, 1:20 pm, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote:
>
> > > > LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Feb 25, 3:44 pm, Rehlow <newsgr...@rehlow.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Since Vidal can play a card requiring flight once a game can he play a
> > > > > > card requiring Striga?
> > > > > No. Neither Striga nor Maleficia are vampire traits.
>
> > > > If, in some future set, a vampire were printed that had Maleficia (much as
> > > > there are vampires printed with Flight), would it then be a "non-infernal
> > > > vampire trait"?
>
> > > Is there a list somewhere of all vampire traits? How do we know if
> > > something is a trait?
>
> > This.
>
> > If Flight is a trait (it is a trait, right?), and Striga and Maleficia
> > are not traits and also not disciplines, then where is the list of
> > things that are (or are not) traits?
>
> If Aye and Orun are not vampire traits, and Conviction is not an
> Imbued trait, then we can simply make a list of everything in the game
> that is not a trait.
>
Different. The Maleficia card says that the vampire may play cards
requiring inferior (and superior with condition) Maleficia. Obviously
Maleficia is a game concept outside of just the name of a card. High
Aye requires that a vampire have 3 Aye cards. Evil Eye requires
inferior (or superior) Maleficia, and the "skill card" says that they
can meet that requirement. The cards don't say "requires a vampire
with one Maleficia card... As above, but requires 2 Maleficia
cards." Which may be just for space reasons, but that's basically the
reason for traits in the first place - to save space instead of
spelling out re-used verbiage on multiple cards. The use of the
symbols effectively means "requires Maleficia / requires superior
Maleficia", which if not a discipline, is... what exactly?
LSJ
Yeah, weird. I wrote a reply and hit send. But my connection must've
hiccupped, cause when I came back to the window, it was still waiting.
I hit send again, but didn't notice that it apparently was on the next
post (the one after the one I had originally replied).
Thanks.
LSJ
> The use of the
> symbols effectively means "requires Maleficia / requires superior
> Maleficia", which if not a discipline, is... what exactly?
A Discipline-less Discipline. (Like Caitiff is a clan-less clan.)
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=Checklist_HeirsToTheBlood
Chris Berger
So, I'm assuming, add Caitiff to the list of "things" that a vampire
can be that are not traits. Obviously Clan, Discipline, and Name are
not traits, because those fit in another category. I don't recall if
a title is a trait or not (or whether "titled" is a trait, but
"Bishop" is a Title and not a trait...), though I think that's been
answered elsewhere, so I could search for that at some point.
So, to recap, Maleficia is a Discipline that is not a Discipline. Or
a No-Discipline. Being not-a-discipline is basically its own
classification, because it can't be classified as a trait, or anything
else. Very Zen. Or put another way, the set of categories that
Maleficia falls into seems to be a null set, which is the same null
set that Striga falls in, but a different null set from Caitiff... If
we have a set of all things that are not what they are (e.g. a
Discipline that is not a Discipline), would that set be a member of
itself? =)
LSJ
> On Feb 26, 8:28 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 26, 9:21 am, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>
> > > The use of the
> > > symbols effectively means "requires Maleficia / requires superior
> > > Maleficia", which if not a discipline, is... what exactly?
>
> > A Discipline-less Discipline. (Like Caitiff is a clan-less clan.)
>
> >http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=Checklist_HeirsToTheBlood
>
> So, I'm assuming, add Caitiff to the list of "things" that a vampire
> can be that are not traits. Obviously Clan, Discipline, and Name are
> not traits, because those fit in another category. I don't recall if
> a title is a trait or not (or whether "titled" is a trait, but
> "Bishop" is a Title and not a trait...), though I think that's been
> answered elsewhere, so I could search for that at some point.
Recap:
Google: "Vidal author:LSJ"
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/bf2c20f4858fc1ce
Vidal can mimic Caitiff (like he can mimic clans).
Vidal cannot mimic Striga (like he cannot mimic Disciplines).
> So, to recap, Maleficia is a Discipline that is not a Discipline. Or
> a No-Discipline. Being not-a-discipline is basically its own
> classification, because it can't be classified as a trait, or anything
> else. Very Zen. Or put another way, the set of categories that
> Maleficia falls into seems to be a null set, which is the same null
> set that Striga falls in, but a different null set from Caitiff... If
> we have a set of all things that are not what they are (e.g. a
> Discipline that is not a Discipline), would that set be a member of
> itself? =)
I suppose. If you play loose with the definitions of null sets and
such.
Basically Striga:Discipline :: Caitiff:clan
Kevin M.
> Chris Berger wrote:
>> The use of the symbols effectively means
>> "requires Maleficia / requires superior Maleficia",
>> which if not a discipline, is... what exactly?
>
> A Discipline-less Discipline. (Like Caitiff is a clan-less clan.)
> http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=Checklist_HeirsToTheBlood
But the rulebook states that Caitiff are a clanless-clan, in [10.1].
It says nothing about a disciplineless-discipline. Why couldn't this
be put on, say, pg.52, where there is a great deal of white space?
This thinking could also be used to put the five Imbued rules into
the rulebook, too, which would do nothing but help the game.
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.myminicity.com/
Please buy my cards! http://shop.ebay.com/kjmergen/m.html
Kevin M.
> LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>> Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
>>> The use of the symbols effectively means
>>> "requires Maleficia / requires superior Maleficia",
>>> which if not a discipline, is... what exactly?
>>
>> A Discipline-less Discipline. (Like Caitiff is a clan-less clan.)
>> http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=Checklist_HeirsToTheBlood
>
> So, I'm assuming, add Caitiff to the list of "things" that a vampire
> can be that are not traits. Obviously Clan, Discipline, and Name are
> not traits, because those fit in another category. I don't recall if
> a title is a trait or not (or whether "titled" is a trait, but
> "Bishop" is a Title and not a trait...), though I think that's been
> answered elsewhere, so I could search for that at some point.
As far as I can tell, the following are traits. LSJ?
Anarch
Advanced
[Base]
Black Hand
Blood Cursed
Caitiff
<City> Circle
<Clan> Slave
Cold Iron Vulnerability
Flight
Infernal
Merged
Red List
Seraph
Scarce
Sterile
True Faith
Jozxyqk
> As far as I can tell, the following are traits. LSJ?
> Anarch
> Advanced
> [Base]
> Black Hand
> Blood Cursed
> Caitiff
> <City> Circle
> <Clan> Slave
> Cold Iron Vulnerability
> Flight
> Infernal
> Merged
> Red List
> Seraph
> Scarce
> Sterile
> True Faith
As far as I understand it, individual title-types are also traits,
and can be "checked off" separately for cards that require "a titled
vampire", for Vidal's ability. For example, he can call Reinforcements
"as a cardinal", and then again "as a baron", and then again "as a
prince", and then again "as a 'has 1 vote' vampire"... effectively an
infinite number of times.
The reason I say title-types and not titles is that he couldn't count
"prince of Boston" and "prince of Las Vegas" separately. That's just
"prince".
LSJ
> As far as I can tell, the following are traits. LSJ?
>
> Anarch
> Advanced
> [Base]
> Black Hand
> Blood Cursed
> Caitiff
> <City> Circle
> <Clan> Slave
> Cold Iron Vulnerability
> Flight
> Infernal
> Merged
> Red List
> Seraph
> Scarce
> Sterile
> True Faith
Those seem to have already been covered already
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/bf2c20f4858fc1ce
If there are some on that list not already covered on the checklist
page or on the more detailed list linked above, let me know.
James Coupe
>For example, he can call Reinforcements
>"as a cardinal", and then again "as a baron", and then again "as a
>prince", and then again "as a 'has 1 vote' vampire"... effectively an
>infinite number of times.
The "has 1 vote" trait is actually "has unnamed independent title"
trait.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/25f005d44b16acfe
--
James Coupe
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Daneel
wrote:
Such a deep meaning.
I feel enlightened, and see
A cherry blossom.
--
Regards,
Daneel