LSJ- Enkil Cog/Madness Network Etiquette
XZealot
etiquette for taking a Enkil Cog/Madness Network actions. Do does the
player whose minion phase it is have to ask the player controllling
Enkil Cog/Madness Network if he wants to take an action after each of
his actions or does the Enkil Cog/Madness Network player have to
annouce that he wants to take an action after the current action?
Madness Network
Type: Master
Requires: Malkavian
Unique master.
Put this card in play. Untapped Malkavians can take actions in any
Methuselah's minion phase (follow normal sequencing rules). Any minion
can burn this card as an action that any untapped Malkavian (in
addition to the normally eligible blockers) can attempt to block.
Enkil Cog
Type: Action Modifier
Requires: capacity 10
Requires a vampire of capacity 10 or more. Unique.
Only usable when this vampire successfully bleeds your prey (play
after resolution). Put this card on this vampire. During any
Methuselah's minion phase, this vampire may tap this card to attempt
an action. This vampire has +1 bleed.
Chris Berger
> Now that Madness Network has be given new language, what is the proper
> etiquette for taking a Enkil Cog/Madness Network actions. Do does the
> player whose minion phase it is have to ask the player controllling
> Enkil Cog/Madness Network if he wants to take an action after each of
> his actions or does the Enkil Cog/Madness Network player have to
> annouce that he wants to take an action after the current action?
>
LSJ
Oh, I'm sure I could count that high.
Anyway, the sequencing rules given in the rulebook provide the framework to
handle this sequencing issue:
Player whose minion phase it is: A.
Player controlling The Madness Cog: B.
The opportunity to play an effect or pass: impulse.
A's turn.
Minion phase.
Time to declare an action.
A has the impulse.
A has minion W take an action.
...
Action resolves.
Between-action (Heidelberg)
A has the impulse.
A passes. All pass.
Time to declare an action.
A has the impulse.
(repeat until A passes the opportunity to declare the next action).
...
Time to declare an action.
A has the impulse.
A passes.
B has the impulse.
B has minion X take an action.
...
Action resolves.
Between-action (Heidelberg)
A has the impulse.
A passes. All pass.
Time to declare an action.
A has the impulse.
(repeat until A passes the opportunity to declare the next action).
And so on until "all pass", ending A's minion phase.
John Flournoy
> etiquette for taking a Enkil Cog/Madness Network actions. Do does the
> player whose minion phase it is have to ask the player controllling
> Enkil Cog/Madness Network if he wants to take an action after each of
> his actions or does the Enkil Cog/Madness Network player have to
> annouce that he wants to take an action after the current action?
Neither; the player whose minion phase it is doesn't have to ask that
question until he is done taking as many actions as he wants.
It doesn't matter if the EC/MMN wants to take an action after the
acting player's first action; they're not allowed to take it until the
acting player is done taking however many actions they want before
passing the opportunity along.
(Think of it like playing before-range cards in a combat - the acting
player plays as many as he wants, and then everybody else gets an
opportunity, and if anybody makes a single play the acting minion gets
to play as many more as he likes, etc.)
-John Flournoy
malcol...@gmail.com
> On Jan 23, 2:02 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > Now that Madness Network has be given new language, what is the proper
> > player whose minion phase it is have to ask the player controllling
> > his actions or does theEnkilCog/Madness Network player have to
> > annouce that he wants to take an action after the current action?
>
> Neither; the player whose minion phase it is doesn't have to ask that
> question until he is done taking as many actions as he wants.
>
> It doesn't matter if the EC/MMN wants to take an action after the
> acting player's first action; they're not allowed to take it until the
> acting player is done taking however many actions they want before
> passing the opportunity along.
>
> (Think of it like playing before-range cards in a combat - the acting
> player plays as many as he wants, and then everybody else gets an
> opportunity, and if anybody makes a single play the acting minion gets
> to play as many more as he likes, etc.)
>
> -John Flournoy
That sounds like a contradiction of what LSJ just said:
--------------------------------------------------------
The opportunity to play an effect or pass: impulse.
Between-action (Heidelberg)
A has the impulse.
A passes. All pass.<-----------------
Time to declare an action.
A has the impulse.
(repeat until A passes the opportunity to declare the next action).
---------------------------------
It seems like everyone gets a chance between every action to play
effects(starting with A who has impulse, and going around). So It
would seem that after A's first action, and after any effects A wants
to lay after that action, that B could tap his cog, or activate his
network.
LSJ
> That sounds like a contradiction of what LSJ just said:
> --------------------------------------------------------
> The opportunity to play an effect or pass: impulse.
>
> Between-action (Heidelberg)
> A has the impulse.
> A passes. All pass.<-----------------
>
> Time to declare an action.
> A has the impulse.
> (repeat until A passes the opportunity to declare the next action).
>
> ---------------------------------
> It seems like everyone gets a chance between every action to play
> effects(starting with A who has impulse, and going around). So It
> would seem that after A's first action, and after any effects A wants
> to lay after that action, that B could tap his cog, or activate his
> network.
No, John has it right.
You're overlooking the fact that declaring an action is, by definition, not a
between-actions effect.
So A can't declare an action in the "between-actions" phase (in an attempt to
keep B from using Heidelberg Castle, for example).
And B can't tap the Cog to declare an action in the "between-actions" phase.
Tapping the Cog can only be done when it's time to declare an action.
Similarly declaring an action via the Madness Network can only be done when it's
time to declare an action.
floppyzedolfin
So, supposing the situation to be : C is afraid of B's action, and
doesn't want to use his Heidelberg until he gets the impulse to
declare an action.
Time to declare an action.
A has the impulse.
A passes.
B has the impulse.
B passes.
Can C use his Heidelberg right there? I think not, but I'm really not
sure.
If he can, who has the impulse to declare an action afterwards? Is it
A or C?
If he can, I suppose the answer to this one must be A - this is why :
Otherwise, supposing all but E pass, A could tap his Heidelberg to
moove all blood from an untapped vampire to any other, and then if E
still has the impulse, and passes, A would've ended his minion phase
with an untapped ready vampire with no blood.
LSJ
> So, supposing the situation to be : C is afraid of B's action, and
> doesn't want to use his Heidelberg until he gets the impulse to
> declare an action.
>
> Time to declare an action.
> A has the impulse.
> A passes.
> B has the impulse.
> B passes.
>
> Can C use his Heidelberg right there? I think not, but I'm really not
> sure.
"No" is correct.
Blooded Sand
Could I ask for reasoning please? Heidelberg may not be used during an
action, does this mean there is no space after the passing of the
impulse, before the taking of an Enkil/MN action to tap it in?
LSJ
C passed during the "use Heidelberg" window (as did everyone else).
Now we're up to "declare an action". Using HC is not an action.