Mind Numb, Mind Rape, Carlak questions
thrill_k...@yahoo.com
Last Saturday we had a tournament and we had some misunderstandings.
1.) Blanche Hill was Mind Numbed by her predator and then the predator
was ousted. We ruled the Numb stays and Blanche will never untap as
normal. Then a huge war erupted on our forum whether this was right or
wrong. We found a ruling from 2003 here that Mind Numb's "your untap
phase" referred to the controller of the vampire, which the card is
on. But then, why does Mind Rape stay in play after the player playing
it is ousted? It explicitly states "you still control this card", so
it should be burned, when you are ousted. Please aid us in our great
misunderstanding :)
2.) Carlak states: "When votes are tallied during any referendum,
Carlak gains 1 blood for each Methuselah casting no votes in favor and
at least 1 vote against the referendum." A Methuselah can only gain
votes by discarding a political card from his hand, or by having some
"tap to gain vote" stuff or city gangrel connections. So does Carlak
gain blood for this kind of votes or does he gain blood for any
Methuselah who controls a vampire who voted against the referendum?
Thank you for your answers,
Péter Korsós
LSJ
> Hi!
>
> Last Saturday we had a tournament and we had some misunderstandings.
>
> 1.) Blanche Hill was Mind Numbed by her predator and then the predator
> was ousted. We ruled the Numb stays and Blanche will never untap as
> normal. Then a huge war erupted on our forum whether this was right or
> wrong. We found a ruling from 2003 here that Mind Numb's "your untap
> phase" referred to the controller of the vampire, which the card is
> on.
Correct. It is a minion card, so it is controlled by the controller of the
minion it is on. That's a rulebook rule; no ruling needed.
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/rulebook.html#sec1_6_3
> But then, why does Mind Rape stay in play after the player playing
> it is ousted?
It doesn't.
> It explicitly states "you still control this card", so
> it should be burned, when you are ousted.
It is removed from the game when its controller is ousted.
> Please aid us in our great
> misunderstanding :)
OK.
> 2.) Carlak states: "When votes are tallied during any referendum,
> Carlak gains 1 blood for each Methuselah casting no votes in favor and
> at least 1 vote against the referendum." A Methuselah can only gain
> votes by discarding a political card from his hand, or by having some
> "tap to gain vote" stuff or city gangrel connections. So does Carlak
> gain blood for this kind of votes or does he gain blood for any
> Methuselah who controls a vampire who voted against the referendum?
Yes. A Methuselah also gains votes by using the Edge or by controlling ready
vampires with titles or other votes, like Bewitching Oration votes.
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/rulebook.html#sec6_3_3
_angst_
> thrill_kill_c...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Hi!
>
> > Last Saturday we had a tournament and we had some misunderstandings.
>
> > 1.) Blanche Hill was Mind Numbed by her predator and then the predator
> > was ousted. We ruled the Numb stays and Blanche will never untap as
> > normal. Then a huge war erupted on our forum whether this was right or
> > wrong. We found a ruling from 2003 here that Mind Numb's "your untap
> > phase" referred to the controller of the vampire, which the card is
> > on.
>
> Correct. It is a minion card, so it is controlled by the controller of the
> minion it is on. That's a rulebook rule; no ruling needed.
>
> http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/rulebook.html#sec1_6_3
>
> > But then, why does Mind Rape stay in play after the player playing
> > it is ousted?
>
> It doesn't.
>
> > It explicitly states "you still control this card", so
> > it should be burned, when you are ousted.
>
> It is removed from the game when its controller is ousted.
>
> > Please aid us in our great
> > misunderstanding :)
>
> OK.
>
Wow, when was Mind Rape changed?
That is kinda huge.
I only just now realised that the card text on the KoT card had that
short but very important line "you still controll this card" which the
prior versions of the card lacks.
Was this changed by some kind of ruling prior to KoT or was it an
unannounced errata added when mind rape was reprinted in KoT?
Regards
Alex
Stone
"_angst_" <a...@student.chalmers.se> a �crit dans le message de
news:1b65d650-66a2-48e3...@b1g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
> Was this changed by some kind of ruling prior to KoT or was it an
> unannounced errata added when mind rape was reprinted in KoT?
>
it's yet another one of those ninja errata.
Stone
_angst_
> "_angst_" <a...@student.chalmers.se> a écrit dans le message denews:1b65d650-66a2-48e3...@b1g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Was this changed by some kind of ruling prior to KoT or was it an
> > unannounced errata added when mind rape was reprinted in KoT?
>
> it's yet another one of those ninja errata.
> Stone
I do like Ninjas...
But their sneaky ways are probably not the right ones when it comes to
errata.
Hopefully Scott can tell us about some sneaky NG ruling that happened
years ago that we all missed :)
I played a Rafael de Corazon - Mind Rape deck (stole the idea from
Orian Gissler who talked about it on the SiF forums) during this
weekends tourney and I only own old copies of MR. And considering how
I sometimes use MR's as a discouragement for my pred to oust me I
think I got lucky that this situation didn't come up during the
tournament.
I'm convinced that 6/6 judges would have ruled that the MR stays even
if I'm ousted.
Regards
Alex
LSJ
>>
>>> Was this changed by some kind of ruling prior to KoT or was it an
>>> unannounced errata added when mind rape was reprinted in KoT?
>> it's yet another one of those ninja errata.
>> Stone
>
> I do like Ninjas...
> But their sneaky ways are probably not the right ones when it comes to
> errata.
> Hopefully Scott can tell us about some sneaky NG ruling that happened
> years ago that we all missed :)
KoT card text. Stealth migration. Sorry for omitting that on the KoT page:
Mind Rape: is controlled by the Methuselah who played it. It will be removed if
that controlled is ousted.
_angst_
> _angst_ wrote:
> > On 12 Maj, 13:31, "Stone" <mc_judge_st...@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>
> >>> Was this changed by some kind of ruling prior to KoT or was it an
> >>> unannounced errata added when mind rape was reprinted in KoT?
> >> it's yet another one of those ninja errata.
> >> Stone
>
> > I do like Ninjas...
> > But their sneaky ways are probably not the right ones when it comes to
> > errata.
> > Hopefully Scott can tell us about some sneaky NG ruling that happened
> > years ago that we all missed :)
>
> KoT card text. Stealth migration. Sorry for omitting that on the KoT page:
>
> Mind Rape: is controlled by the Methuselah who played it. It will be removed if
> that controlled is ousted.
No worries Scott. Mistakes happen. I for one am good at making them.
Good thing this thread was created so players who didn't buy many KoT
cards gets updated..
Btw, what was the reasoning behind this change?
Regards
Alex
LSJ
> On 12 Maj, 13:59, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>> KoT card text. Stealth migration. Sorry for omitting that on the KoT page:
>>
>> Mind Rape: is controlled by the Methuselah who played it. It will be removed if
>> that controlled is ousted.
>
> No worries Scott. Mistakes happen. I for one am good at making them.
> Good thing this thread was created so players who didn't buy many KoT
> cards gets updated..
>
> Btw, what was the reasoning behind this change?
?
Proper function.
_angst_
Former function of the card was an interesting twist. It gave you the
option to threaten your pred forcing him/her not to oust you that
round. I'm not saying this change is a bad thing I'm only wondering
why change it at all. It's not like the old version was broken (well,
the really old version was but that's fixed way back :)).
Perhaps it's a language thing because I'm not 100% sure what you mean
by proper function. Is that one of those designers intent thingys that
hosed camille/raven?
Regards
Alex
Kevin M.
> Mind Rape: is controlled by the Methuselah who played it.
> It will be removed if that controlled is ousted.
Any reason that you didn't change Mind Numb in CE? This seems like
exactly the kind of change you would have made, and yet you didn't.
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.myminicity.com/
LSJ
> LSJ wrote:
>> Mind Rape: is controlled by the Methuselah who played it.
>> It will be removed if that controlled is ousted.
>
> Any reason that you didn't change Mind Numb in CE? This seems like
> exactly the kind of change you would have made, and yet you didn't.
Because it functions properly already. Mind Numb removes itself during its
controller's untap phase, even if the Methuselah who played it gets ousted
before then.
LSJ
> Perhaps it's a language thing because I'm not 100% sure what you mean
> by proper function. Is that one of those designers intent thingys that
> hosed camille/raven?
Heh. Assuming Camille the Raven has been hosed, then it's like that, sure. But
that's not a "designer's intent" thingy. It's a bigger thingy. Other examples:
target-based bleed bonuses, DNR clauses on non-combat cards, and Force of Will
being only one action.)
_angst_
:)
Thanks for the reply Scott.
I'm not 100% sure I understand but I'm guessing it's a matter of there
being some pre-set philosophies regarding proper function and that a
card with the properties of the SW version mind rape isn't a part of
these ideas.
Regards
Alex
Shockwave
> vampires with titles or other votes, like Bewitching Oration votes.
>
> http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/rulebook.html#sec6_3_3
For just a second, I thought LSJ was going to post 'No', and I was
going to actually cry, because Carlak is by far & away my favourite
Vampire in KoT. He's been having a field day in Manchester with a .44
and some Ashur Tablets. :)
librarian
Really? Would love to see decklist, even via e-mail.
best -
chris