Summon History
suoli
Type: Action
Cost: X blood
tem: Search your library and/or ash heap for an ally, retainer or
equipment whose cost is X or less. Put that card in play (on this
vampire and with starting life from the bank as needed).
TEM: Search your crypt and/or ash heap for a non-scarce vampire with
capacity X or less. Put that vampire in play, with no blood.
So, uhhh... WTF? Apparently the acting minion doesn't even have to
meet the requirements of the searched card so you can get Ankara
Citadel with the first Summoning and, I dunno, Renegade Garous that
cost 2 blood with the second? Free Tangles and Guarded Rubrics to go
with them? Assault rifle for 2 blood? War Ghoul for 1 blood?
Ponticulus and Talbot's Chainsaw for a total of 2 blood? Erebus Mask
if Tangle and that new Temporis stealth card isn't enough? Am I crazy
or is this broken?
Nikolaj "Lord of the Betrayers" Wendt
*droool*
Ivan .
Shopping.
Viking
Renegade Garou, Assault Rifle etc. cost pool, not blood.
suoli
Summon History costs X blood and puts a card that costs X on the
table. Doesn't matter whether the target card costs blood, pool,
convictions or potatoes, Summon History converts it into a blood cost.
suoli
> Please, if the new deck emerges from this, call it Trujah Goes
> Shopping.
Why even restrict it to Trujah when anyone with an Agent of Power or
Amulet of Temporal Perception can do it?
FVicentini
>
> - Show quoted text -
yea , its not an equip action and it does not force you per cardtext
to pay any cost apart from the cost of the actioncard.
Shockwave
>
> - Show quoted text -
Pending an LSJ confirmation, right now I'm inclined to agree with
suoli. Cards that specify costs have previously specified the type of
cost incurred. See Ankara Citadel, Kindred Segregation, etc etc. To my
mind, there's no inferred 'type' of cost, just because the card costs
blood. The card costs X blood, the card you place as a result has
nothing to do with it, aside from controlling the value of x.
Of course, pending me seeing a card itself, we've no way of being 100%
this text is accurate.
Side Comedy:
How about a Reanimated Corpse? (Okay, my mind fried a little there,
but it's kind of worth bringing up)
Ivan .
> Of course, pending me seeing a card itself, we've no way of being 100%
> this text is accurate.
would this convince you?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Summon-History-VTES-HttB_W0QQitemZ190370352332QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2c52f50ccc
Azel
this will only make Frederick the Weak decks stronger... ;)
yeah, this is one of those "things that make you go 'hmm?'" cards. i
still postulate that most CCG design goes through a few brainstorm
meetings, with a power gamer munchkin, rules lawyer, self-tortured
thespian, and a very beleaguered lead designer. thus no one gets any
time to recheck the creations and glaringly obvious head scratchers
like the above mentioned get through. though this might be true for
business reality in general... ;)
Ivan .
c'mon. It's not that drastic.
it's 0 stealth action. You block it. No biggie.
it can be used only by a True Brujah. It's not like Trujah swept the
tables at the tournaments. You have to throw a bone to a weakly
participating clan once in a while and refresh the field a little. I
think it will enable several interesting variants of this deck with
different equipment/retainer package and you'll have to think a bit to
see exactly what they are up to. I like it.
suoli
Maybe if the Trujah didn't just get a free stealth card as well. Or if
Gwyedd couldn't play it with a discount Beast Meld. Or if Ian couldn't
play it with free Under My Skin and Blithe Acceptance. But as it is, I
really, really believe that it's too good.
orianice
right now, I don't see why this would be better than tons of existing
decks that do not work (or at least are not big archetypes) such as
alastors or ankara citadels. Most obvious reasons why it is not going
to work regularly in tournaments are pentex subversion, card flow,
lack of defense to bleed/stealth and combat... Now the card remains
good, but I personnally would not focus on it in a deck, except if I
would find a combo far more broken than "renegade garou for 2 pools)
suoli
> right now, I don't see why this would be better than tons of existing
> decks that do not work (or at least are not big archetypes) such as
> alastors or ankara citadels. Most obvious reasons why it is not going
> to work regularly in tournaments are pentex subversion, card flow,
> lack of defense to bleed/stealth and combat... Now the card remains
> good, but I personnally would not focus on it in a deck, except if I
> would find a combo far more broken than "renegade garou for 2 pools)
I dunno. It's blood, not pool, Mata+War Ghouls have already won
tournaments and all you need is one card+stealth per turn. Allies and
equipment can be discarded and played from the ash heap. Even just
Talbot, Ponticulus and Pocket Out of Time seem pretty solid already.
orianice
> I dunno. It's blood, not pool, Mata+War Ghouls have already won
> tournaments and all you need is one card+stealth per turn.
-> Not sure what the common point with Mata + war ghouls might be,
since Mata can recruit ghouls directly, so card flow is better. On the
opposite, it uses pool, not blood, so definitely not much in common
-> You cannot get most of those cards without using the "summon
history" way so how do you manage to keep a steady amount of summon
history without hand jamming? It is just an open question
2 turns to get a trujah out, 1 turn to get ankara citadel, you start
recruiting on T4 at best if nothing bad happens. Then you have one
rush, and it's your predator's bleeding T5. If he has not killed you
by then, you can start playing... does not look weak, does not look
broken as you put it into your first message.
A broken card is "blessing of the beast". Summon history is a nice
card.
suoli
> > I dunno. It's blood, not pool, Mata+War Ghouls have already won
> > tournaments and all you need is one card+stealth per turn.
>
> -> Not sure what the common point with Mata + war ghouls might be,
> since Mata can recruit ghouls directly, so card flow is better. On the
> opposite, it uses pool, not blood, so definitely not much in common
I'm saying that paying with blood is better than paying with pool.
Yeah, not automatically true, but in this case I argue it is.
> -> You cannot get most of those cards without using the "summon
> history" way so how do you manage to keep a steady amount of summon
> history without hand jamming? It is just an open question
8 Summons and 8 or so Summonables in a 60-70 card deck? Hourglass of
the Mind and the usual suspects to help out? Card flow doesn't seem
like a problem to me.
> 2 turns to get a trujah out, 1 turn to get ankara citadel, you start
> recruiting on T4 at best if nothing bad happens. Then you have one
> rush, and it's your predator's bleeding T5. If he has not killed you
> by then, you can start playing... does not look weak, does not look
> broken as you put it into your first message.
If you're feeling threatened you could Summon Ponticulus/Wyk/
Asanbonsam Ghoul first, whatever works best. Or bring out a chump
blocker with your main vampire. Or, if you're using Nehemiah, you can
afford to include Majesty without jamming. Krassimir and Ian have
access to Deflection and are both g2.
Chaitan
Name: Tariq eats the world with his friends.
CRYPT
4x Tariq, The Silent
4x Tariq, The Silent ADV
4x Ellen Fence, the Tracker
MASTER
9x Agent of Power
1x Wider View
1x Perfectionist
1x The Barrens
1x Trophy: Domain
1x Trophy: Hunting Ground
1x Trophy: Revered
1x Celerity
ACTION
17x Summon History
3x Red List
2x Assault Rifle
2x Black Spiral Buddy
2x Renegade Garou
1x Flamethrower
1x Remnant of the Endless Storm
1x Harzomatuili
1x High Top
1x Ossian
1x Helicopter
1x Ankara Citadel, Turkey, The
1x Bowl of Convergence
1x Heart of Nizchetus
1x Amulet of Temporal Perception
ACTION MODIFIER
7x Forced March
4x Swallowed by the Night
2x Lost in Crowds
COMBAT
4x Blur
4x Flash
4x Sideslip
EVENT
3x The Unmasking
REACTION
5x Eyes of Argus
5x Telepathic Misdirection
Tariq quickly equip Ankara Citadel, untaps with forced march, equips
Helicopter, Next round... Heart of Nizchetus...
Heart and Barrens to cycle cards (doesn't matter if allies and
equipment is in ash heap, Summon History picks it up anyway).
Ellen Fence, the Tracker borrows an Assault Rifle and later on a Flame
Thrower.
Ellens job is to place red lists, borrow assault rifle/flame thrower
from tariq and send stuff to torpor so tariq can eat it.
Allies defend or jump forward depending on situation.
orianice
I am not even considering the fact that you're summoning at 0 stealth
every action with 6 stealth cards in all the deck. let's admit your
predator and your prey do not want to block Tariq.
>
> Tariq quickly equip Ankara Citadel, -> 1 blood left
untaps with forced march, equips
> Helicopter (because you are lucky you got it in your starting hand, sure, why not), -> 0 blood left
Next round... Heart of Nizchetus...
-> block the hunt before, end of the game
thanks, good deck. the best in this thread at least. :-p
Chaitan
> > Helicopter (because you are lucky you got it in your starting hand, sure, why not), -> 0 blood left
Cardtext: "Search your library and/or ash heap". Granted, initial
blood is an issue but that is also solvable... there are 17 Summon
History... How about adding a 0 cost Cooler... 4 blood should be
sufficient until Perfectionist or Trophy: Hunting Ground is in your
possession.
> Next round... Heart of Nizchetus...
> -> block the hunt before, end of the game
Sure, if 13 stealth cards (don't forget the +1 stealth from forced
march) isn't enough. Throw out an action or two (you don't really need
all those allies and you can remove of of the summons) and include
Ambulance, Malajit Chandramouli and/or Polaris Coach for some
permanent stealth.
orianice
> > -> block the hunt before, end of the game
>
> Sure, if 13 stealth cards (don't forget the +1 stealth from forced
> march) isn't enough. Throw out an action or two (you don't really need
> all those allies and you can remove of of the summons) and include
> Ambulance, Malajit Chandramouli and/or Polaris Coach for some
> permanent stealth.
I am not, tariq does not get +1 stealth from forced march, unless you
have 2 agent of powers in your hand and are willing to play both
you could play Drum of xipe topec to avoid that, though.
Sim
clan stuff like Ankara Citadel. I can see this as being able to pull
out 10-11 cap vamps every turn. If you can get past slow start, could
be as bad as any baby making deck but with every baby having 2-4 votes
to start. Look for vamps that have 2-4 votes and have any lvl of
obfuscate. Makes Dmitra Ilyanova + Lutz a little hot. Focus on
bloating, by the time first player is knocked off table (if its not
you, most be working) you will have a swarm of vote lock and +
bleeders. Vamp life would have become cheap as well.
librarian
best -
chris
Juggernaut1981
Yeah, I am potentially seeing something that goes like...
Zillah's Valley + 4 Transfers = 8 cap
8Cap uses 7 blood to bring out of Crypt a 7cap
7Cap uses 6 blood to bring out of Crypt a 6cap... Giant's Blood 8 Cap
There could be some massive shennanigans going on...
Meej
> Zillah's Valley + 4 Transfers = 8 cap
> 8Cap uses 7 blood to bring out of Crypt a 7cap
> 7Cap uses 6 blood to bring out of Crypt a 6cap... Giant's Blood 8 Cap
>
> There could be some massive shennanigans going on...
How did the 7-cap get any blood on him? There certainly were some
shenanigans in that scenario.
"TEM: Search your crypt and/or ash heap for a non-scarce vampire with
capacity X or less. Put that vampire in play, with no blood. "
- D.J.
Frederick Scott
news:dc66b63f-8481-40de...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
One little 'gotcha' in the inferior version: I notice you're not allowed
to play cards out of your hand. So if you were counting on playing
Summon History for, say, Ankara Citadel and then before the start of your
turn you draw your only copy of Ankara Citadel, then you have to figure
out a way to discard it before you can declare the Summon History action.
Be a REAL shame if you were to draw your only Ankara Citadel to replace
the Summon History itself...
Fred
Azel
> "suoli" <suoliruse...@gmail.com> wrote in message
i think the imbued have showed us that getting things into the ash
heap is pretty reliable tech now. and if Ankara is that critical, and
the combo so easily and obviously ruined by drawing 1 card, it would
be a glaring deck design flaw to leave it not addressed. i see what
you are saying, but i don't really buy it that it balances things out.
the big thing that strikes me from this card is how ridiculously open-
ended this card is and how it throws a nasty curve ball to costs as a
balancing tool. every set introduces at least some new allies,
retainers, and equipment, therefore every set potentially explodes the
power curve of this card. (compare to cards that grant just +1 stealth
or just S:CE; a fixed resource. though extremely useful, has little
chance to explode utility through gross combos). further, the card (as
written) circumvents just about all external cost balancing measures,
so trait and pool requirements would have to migrate into the text box
or be essentially looked with a jaundiced eye during design.
i understand upping the power curve, especially for a clan that needs
help. but w/ it's big effect at basic, and Agent of Power or the new
TEM equipment, it's opening dangerous doors. Tutor effects = very
strong, cost circumventers = worrisome setup for combos. with cost
dividers like Ankara around, very, very worrisome doors opened.
whether something grotesque comes through changes from an 'if' to a
'when'. open-ended effects have sent more than one CCG into a
tailspin; they are just so hard to balance.
i feel my concerns are warranted, even if they are premature.
technobabble66
you prefer and the lowest Salubri with OBE within that grouping.
Influence out both, in whatever order for best initial defence.
Start using Summon History to bring out the rest of the crypt (-
having selected a crypt of whichever vamps suit the angle you want =
bleed, combat, etc). Possibly include OBF in crypt to use Cloak or
Veil to gain additional 1-2 stealth.
After each SH, the salubri plays Renewed Vigor to recharge the Trujah,
or fill up the newly summoned vamps.
True this is not broken, but might offer some possibilities. Keep in
mind it's plausible to get some of the Trujah to act 4 times a turn...
Oh yeah, obviously you'd Ankara citadel out with the first SH. I think
it's safe to assume Ankara will automatically go into every deck that
has 1 or more SH ;-)
Another tactic,
Influence out Mikael Birkholm. SH out Ankara (plus other stuff - eg:
clotho's gift, etc). SH out AK47. SH Dog pack. Kill all minions on
table (Lapse, target vitals, target vitals). If bored, SH out Renegade
(just because you can!!)
V exciting to see Trujah FINALLY get at least ONE card that is
powerful, and vaguely reflects what Temporis can do. It s t o p s time
for god's sake!!
technobabble66
I think it's gr8 the Trujah get access to cards that may make them
slightly more playable, rather than novelty wallpaper for the last 10
yrs.
However, doing that and then making the most outstanding card awesome
at inferior is possibly going to benefit every other vamp in the game
almost as much (that whole powercurve thing). This is due to an
equipment card in the same expansion or Agent of Power or Spontaneous
power granting anyone inferior Temporis. Seems kind of strange given
virtually all other temporis cards suck at inferior and have potential
(maybe) at superior. Tho i hv to admit, the superior may prove to be
even more awesome.
It will be interesting to see how it goes given it replaces and
exceeds Magic of the Smith with the obvious necessity of giving a rare
discipline to a vamp first; and potentially can make any vamp into a
partial Mata Hari.
Maybe that means its a more powerful combo/strategy, but harder to
pull off. Maybe...
Btw, I should probably say also that the expansion generally looks
AWESOME for the Bloodline clans - maybe 75% of all the cards are
playable; maybe even 40-50% could be commonly used in (appropriate)
decks, even if only 1-2 copies. Much greater yield than many other
expansions. And much of it devoted to clans that have sucked for far
too long.
Ector
suoli wrote:
> Summon History
> Type: Action
> Cost: X blood
>
> tem: Search your library and/or ash heap for an ally, retainer or
> equipment whose cost is X or less. Put that card in play (on this
> vampire and with starting life from the bank as needed).
> TEM: Search your crypt and/or ash heap for a non-scarce vampire with
> capacity X or less. Put that vampire in play, with no blood.
>
> So, uhhh... WTF? Apparently the acting minion doesn't even have to
> meet the requirements of the searched card so you can get Ankara
> Citadel with the first Summoning and, I dunno, Renegade Garous that
> cost 2 blood with the second? Free Tangles and Guarded Rubrics to go
> with them? Assault rifle for 2 blood? War Ghoul for 1 blood?
> Ponticulus and Talbot's Chainsaw for a total of 2 blood? Erebus Mask
> if Tangle and that new Temporis stealth card isn't enough? Am I crazy
> or is this broken?
I'd like to get some answers from LSJ:
1). Can I search for a card that cost pool at inferior or not?
2). Can I search for a card with requirements that the acting vampire
doesn't correspond?
3). Do I understand it right that Summoned allies and vampires can act
on the same turn?
If all three answers would be "yes", then the card would really seems
to be a bit too powerful. It would allow to equip clan-specific allies
for a cheap price AND these allies would act immediately (neither
regular recruit action nor Piper allows that).
I guess the answer 2 should be "no" (which will probably require an
errata). The card will still remain powerful enough, but it wouldn't
allow to summon Ankara Citadel, Garous or War Ghouls without Amulet or
Clan Impersonation.
Gentlemen, why do you miss the *superior* ability of the card?
Summoning a 4-cap vampire will save roughly 8 transfers (4 transfers
to get the vampire + 4 more to influence it). A political PRE-weenie
based on Synesios will allow him to restore blood via Voter Caps. Such
deck could generate a huge swarm during the first 5-6 turns!
Frederick Scott
news:b3c00448-6051-45aa...@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> Gentlemen, why do you miss the *superior* ability of the card?
> Summoning a 4-cap vampire will save roughly 8 transfers (4 transfers
> to get the vampire + 4 more to influence it). A political PRE-weenie
> based on Synesios will allow him to restore blood via Voter Caps. Such
> deck could generate a huge swarm during the first 5-6 turns!
I'm confused. How do PRE-weenies help Synesios use Voter Caps to
restore blood? First of all, he'll never have the blood from his
starting cache to bring out more than one or two weenies - even if
you've managed to draw more than two Summon History cards that early.
Secondly, in order to win the votes with enough dominance to Voter
Cap up his blood, the weenies would have to call Crusades or Praxis
Seizures on themselves. Expect total resistance by every other vote
on the board.
I suppose you might expect to influence out one or two presence
weenies as well. But I still think the deck will start very slow,
frequently flounder on bad opening draws, and be extremely vulnerable
to a predator that can bring heavy bleed early and anyone on the
table who can rush or intercept and somehow get around whatever combat
defense you setup for Synesios.
These kinds of decks are a lot harder to actually build and play
effectively than they are to talk about.
Fred
Ector
Frederick Scott wrote:
> "Ector" <Ec...@mail.ru> wrote in message
> news:b3c00448-6051-45aa...@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> > Gentlemen, why do you miss the *superior* ability of the card?
> > Summoning a 4-cap vampire will save roughly 8 transfers (4 transfers
> > to get the vampire + 4 more to influence it). A political PRE-weenie
> > based on Synesios will allow him to restore blood via Voter Caps. Such
> > deck could generate a huge swarm during the first 5-6 turns!
>
> I'm confused. How do PRE-weenies help Synesios use Voter Caps to
> restore blood? First of all, he'll never have the blood from his
> starting cache to bring out more than one or two weenies - even if
> you've managed to draw more than two Summon History cards that early.
> Secondly, in order to win the votes with enough dominance to Voter
> Cap up his blood, the weenies would have to call Crusades or Praxis
> Seizures on themselves. Expect total resistance by every other vote
> on the board.
I'm talking about Crusades/Praxis Seizures/Justicars, for sure.
Theoretically, Synesios can play a voting action, refill with Voter
Cap, untap with Domain of Evernight and then play Summon History each
turn :) Actually, things aren't going to be so bright, but he will
Summon 3-4 weenies per game.
> I suppose you might expect to influence out one or two presence
> weenies as well. But I still think the deck will start very slow,
> frequently flounder on bad opening draws, and be extremely vulnerable
> to a predator that can bring heavy bleed early and anyone on the
> table who can rush or intercept and somehow get around whatever combat
> defense you setup for Synesios.
>
> These kinds of decks are a lot harder to actually build and play
> effectively than they are to talk about.
No decks can auto-win after they draw their hand. Please remember that
Synesious can summon some allies to help slowing the predator, and
voting decks are known for their pool generation.
Frederick Scott
> Frederick Scott wrote:
>> I suppose you might expect to influence out one or two presence
>> weenies as well. But I still think the deck will start very slow,
>> frequently flounder on bad opening draws, and be extremely vulnerable
>> to a predator that can bring heavy bleed early and anyone on the
>> table who can rush or intercept and somehow get around whatever combat
>> defense you setup for Synesios.
>>
>> These kinds of decks are a lot harder to actually build and play
>> effectively than they are to talk about.
>
> No decks can auto-win after they draw their hand.
Yea, but some decks have a lot better shot at surviving bad opening
draws than others. I believe this one is so slow and has so many
moving parts that it will survive a bad opening draw very poorly!
> Please remember that
> Synesious can summon some allies to help slowing the predator,
Well, assuming the problem isn't failure to draw any Summon History
cards or the stealth to get the 0-stealth Summon History cards past
a preditor, that may be true. And, in so doing, he'll have to pay
more blood for Carlton Van Wyck or whoever you throw out to delay.
And allies are notoriously bad for dealing with any amount of real
stealth.
> and voting decks are known for their pool generation.
They are. But this voting deck will take some time to setup to
get to that point, I think, and that's a big problem. Once you've
achieved voting dominance, you should be all right. Er, assuming
you can then draw your offensive votes...
Fred
LSJ
> suoli wrote:
> > Summon History
> > Type: Action
> > Cost: X blood
>
> > tem: Search your library and/or ash heap for an ally, retainer or
> > equipment whose cost is X or less. Put that card in play (on this
> > vampire and with starting life from the bank as needed).
> > TEM: Search your crypt and/or ash heap for a non-scarce vampire with
> > capacity X or less. Put that vampire in play, with no blood.
>
>
> 1). Can I search for a card that cost pool at inferior or not?
X pool (or less), sure. Quoted text: "whose cost is X or less".
> 2). Can I search for a card with requirements that the acting vampire
> doesn't correspond?
Yes.
> 3). Do I understand it right that Summoned allies and vampires can act
> on the same turn?
Yes.
Meej
> I'm talking about Crusades/Praxis Seizures/Justicars, for sure.
> Theoretically, Synesios can play a voting action, refill with Voter
> Cap, untap with Domain of Evernight and then play Summon History each
> turn :)
Looks to me like Summon History isn't the problem card in that chain,
though.
(Hint: it rhymes with "Motor Snap.")
- D.J.
Azel
thanks for the clarification. well, it's as strong as we feared it
would be. so...
who can create the most reliable and/or gross combo deck with this
card? let the Deus Ex Machina fun begin! :D
Anneke Stops Everything! Anneke, Agent of Power, Ankara, SH, Sniper/
Assault Rifle, and War Ghouls?
Arika Summons the Inner Circle. Arika, Agent + TEM equip/Spontaneous
Power, Ankara, SH, and IC members.
Nu Summons the Inner Circle. Nu, SH, Ankara, My Kin Against the World,
Voter Cap
let's get creative! :)
technobabble66
Arika, etc could be mighty scary tho ;-)
Ector
I guess it would be Nehemiah (for his ability to dig for combo parts)
or Lydia (for her great stealth and intercept abilities). Amulet is an
extra part that makes the deck too complicated. After all, you'll need
Ankara anyway :)
I'm completely amazed by the power of Summon History. Clan-specific
allies are generally designed to be better than average. Now you can
summon any of them (advantage!) for blood instead of pool
(advantage!), possibly for half blood with Ankara (advantage) and they
can act immediately (advantage!!!). Hope this card isn't going to be
banned :)
Neil
> Power, Ankara, SH, and IC members.
The TEM equipment won't work for this - it only allows a vampire to
play cards using basic Temporis, it doesn't actually give the vampire
any levels of Temporis (excluding draft). Infernal Pact, on the other
hand, should work, which allows one to add the missing Clan
Impersonation step.
librarian
>
>>>>> Summon History
>>>>>
Hope this card isn't going to be
> banned :)
Well, play it until it breaks, then see if it needs to be
banned. At this point, it looks "good on paper", I want to
see it fly in the real world...
best -
chris
Meej
Yeah, seriously.
I mean, folks do realize that sets get playtested, right? I'd assume,
based on the fact that very little that actually proves to be broken
gets released, that the playtesters actually do a decent job of
catching stuff. I suppose it remains to be seen whether this got
missed in playtest, or whether the Chicken Littles are just Chicken
Littles, but...
- D.J.
Rehlow
You'll need to play an Agent of Power every turn you want to play a
Summon History so I think it would be easier to have Anneke Alastor
equip to her friends and she can equip it back from them. Doesn't help
you get War Ghouls though.
> Arika Summons the Inner Circle. Arika, Agent + TEM equip/Spontaneous
> Power, Ankara, SH, and IC members.
So you'll have to spend 3 turns getting Arika out, then first action
is for Ankara once you spend even more of your pool on Spontaneous
Power and then you can finally get the combo rolling. Govern down,
Freak, Vote, Voter Cap repeat is probably a better way to summon some
friends.
> Nu Summons the Inner Circle. Nu, SH, Ankara, My Kin Against the World,
> Voter Cap
>
I think you would be better off with Synesios since he's easier to get
into play in 2 turns and the obf will come in handy for stealth (and
obf stealth vs tem stealth overlaps better weith your summoned ICs).
> let's get creative! :)- Hide quoted text -
>
Nehemiah looks like your man to put clan specific allies into play. If
you draw them early you can place them on the bottom your library
during your untap phase. If you can find a good source of blood bloat
for Nehemiah you might be better off skipping the Ankara Citadel step
and going straight to putting some strong allies into play.
I'll definitely make some sort of stupid Summon History deck, but I
don't expect to be tearing up the tournament scene with it.
Later,
~Rehlow
technobabble66
Trujah highcap SH's Ankara. Next turn SH's out Nergal. Tap heidelberg
to transfer a bit of blood to Nerg so he doesn't auto-hunt. Instead
Nergal plays call the great beast. Select TEM/OBF and either PRE or
OBE (or go a combat duo with TEM). Next turn SH out Nergal again with
the trujah. So 3 turns after ur first trujah emerges, you have 3 high
cap minions, 2 of which hv TEM.
From there, you can bring out any other vamps in the crypt and stuff
in the library, and either go combat, bleed or vote, or any combo that
takes ur fancy ;-)
Also could easily use the grp 6 vamps instead - all the trujah could
hv their uses, and The unnamed could be fun!
Another option - as above but bring out FoS's instead of Baali, and
fry a few of them w Khobar for some bloating...
The fun just doesn't stop!!
...
I'm guessing this card will be super super rare and v v v expensive ;-(
Ector
Rehlow wrote:
> Nehemiah looks like your man to put clan specific allies into play. If
> you draw them early you can place them on the bottom your library
> during your untap phase. If you can find a good source of blood bloat
> for Nehemiah you might be better off skipping the Ankara Citadel step
> and going straight to putting some strong allies into play.
>
> I'll definitely make some sort of stupid Summon History deck, but I
> don't expect to be tearing up the tournament scene with it.
>
> Later,
> ~Rehlow
Actually, I've changed my mind about the best Trujah for Summon
History. Al-Muntathir is the man.
AUS/FOR provides good defense and good synergy with !Ventrue, like
Neighbour John. Obfuscate provides stealth. Black Hand provides very
good cards for such deck: Drop Point Network can fetch a copy of
Summon History, and having to put too many SHs is bad. But the best
combo is Art of Memory. Can you imagine playing SH, stealth, then Art
of Memory to return SH back? :)
Blooded Sand
> suoli wrote:
> > Summon History
> > Type: Action
> > Cost: X blood
>
> > tem: Search your library and/or ash heap for an ally, retainer or
> > equipment whose cost is X or less. Put that card in play (on this
> > vampire and with starting life from the bank as needed).
> > TEM: Search your crypt and/or ash heap for a non-scarce vampire with
> > capacity X or less. Put that vampire in play, with no blood.
>
> > So, uhhh... WTF? Apparently the acting minion doesn't even have to
> > meet the requirements of the searched card so you can get Ankara
> > Citadel with the first Summoning and, I dunno, Renegade Garous that
> > cost 2 blood with the second? Free Tangles and Guarded Rubrics to go
> > with them? Assault rifle for 2 blood? War Ghoul for 1 blood?
> > Ponticulus and Talbot's Chainsaw for a total of 2 blood? Erebus Mask
> > if Tangle and that new Temporis stealth card isn't enough? Am I crazy
> > or is this broken?
>
> I'd like to get some answers from LSJ:
>
> 1). Can I search for a card that cost pool at inferior or not?
> 2). Can I search for a card with requirements that the acting vampire
> doesn't correspond?
> 3). Do I understand it right that Summoned allies and vampires can act
> on the same turn?
Yes this card is powerful. But the TEM level is hard to use as your
brand spanking new vamp is hunting for blood asap.
Renau Kint
Say if I summon History a War Ghoul, do i need to sac an ally or
retainer. Or is that cost part of the recruit parts and seizes to
exist when i play it with summon.
Might be important, otherwise i might have some rock solid deck in the
works.
LSJ
> One more question for LSJ;
>
> Say if I summon History a War Ghoul, do i need to sac an ally or
> retainer.
Card text: "When War Ghoul enters play, burn an ally or retainer you
control."
If you Summon History a War Ghoul, the War Ghoul enters play.
> Or is that cost part of the recruit parts and seizes to
> exist when i play it with summon.
Card text indicates it is not part of the recruit part.
Kevin Walsh
> Yes this card is powerful. But the TEM level is hard to use as your
> brand spanking new vamp is hunting for blood asap.
Concert Tour is the answer to this problem.
Kevin Walsh
The Lasombra
> > Yes this card is powerful. But the TEM level is hard to use as your
> > brand spanking new vamp is hunting for blood asap.
> Concert Tour is the answer to this problem.
I disagree. Renewed Vigor would be a much better answer to the
problem of a new vampire with 0 blood and lots of capacity.
Heidelburg should definitely also make an appearance. That way you
don't have to be summoning Qadir or Mata Hari or Daughters of
Cacophony.
I'd think that an end of predators turn Summon History (Enkil Cog)
followed up by a sacrifice to Khobar Towers/Golconda/etc. wouldn't be
completely unthinkable either.
House of Sorrows / The Coven will be a strong combo with this as will
Jake Washington (in quantity).
John Flournoy
> On Feb 9, 4:36 pm, Kevin Walsh wrote:
>
> > > Yes this card is powerful. But the TEM level is hard to use as your
> > > brand spanking new vamp is hunting for blood asap.
> > Concert Tour is the answer to this problem.
Concert Tour is of very limited use; the new vampire comes into play
and still has to hunt before they get a chance to play Concert Tour.
Yeah, it'll be useful next turn, but that still hasn't solved the 'I'm
a big vampire empty and hunting' issue.
> I disagree. Renewed Vigor would be a much better answer to the
> problem of a new vampire with 0 blood and lots of capacity.
> Heidelburg should definitely also make an appearance. That way you
> don't have to be summoning Qadir or Mata Hari or Daughters of
> Cacophony.
Heidleberg is a good answer. Renewed Vigor suffers the same "my
vampire must hunt asap and get Renewed Vigor'ed later" problem.
> House of Sorrows / The Coven will be a strong combo with this as will
> Jake Washington (in quantity).
The Coven's a great idea. Jake Washington less so, since presumably
the new vampire being brought in isn't likely to be both ready and
empty at the start of your next turn - not nearly as likely as he is
to have one blood. Still a viable solution though, since it's easy
enough to get 1 blood off of that vampire (via a Blood Doll, or other
means.)
Ideally, you want to have a way to immediately get blood onto that
vampire before he has to take his (immediate) mandatory hunt action;
Heidleberg and/or the Coven are the best options. Failing that, you'd
like to have some way (that costs 0 blood) to make sure that the hunt
doesn't immediately get blocked thus putting your free new vampire
into torpor.
-John Flournoy
Blooded Sand
> On Feb 9, 3:48 pm, The Lasombra <thelasom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 9, 4:36 pm, Kevin Walsh wrote:
>
> > > > Yes this card is powerful. But the TEM level is hard to use as your
> > > > brand spanking new vamp is hunting for blood asap.
> > > Concert Tour is the answer to this problem.
>
> Concert Tour is of very limited use; the new vampire comes into play
> and still has to hunt before they get a chance to play Concert Tour.
> Yeah, it'll be useful next turn, but that still hasn't solved the 'I'm
> a big vampire empty and hunting' issue.
>
> > I disagree. Renewed Vigor would be a much better answer to the
> > problem of a new vampire with 0 blood and lots of capacity.
> > Heidelburg should definitely also make an appearance. That way you
> > don't have to be summoning Qadir or Mata Hari or Daughters of
> > Cacophony.
>
> Heidleberg is a good answer. Renewed Vigor suffers the same "my
> vampire must hunt asap and get Renewed Vigor'ed later" problem.
So Heidelberg AND Renewed vigour did not occur to you?
>
> > House of Sorrows / The Coven will be a strong combo with this as will
> > Jake Washington (in quantity).
>
> The Coven's a great idea. Jake Washington less so, since presumably
> the new vampire being brought in isn't likely to be both ready and
> empty at the start of your next turn - not nearly as likely as he is
> to have one blood. Still a viable solution though, since it's easy
> enough to get 1 blood off of that vampire (via a Blood Doll, or other
> means.)
>
> Ideally, you want to have a way to immediately get blood onto that
> vampire before he has to take his (immediate) mandatory hunt action;
> Heidleberg and/or the Coven are the best options. Failing that, you'd
> like to have some way (that costs 0 blood) to make sure that the hunt
> doesn't immediately get blocked thus putting your free new vampire
> into torpor.
Well change oif target is good here, combined with maybe, um, renewed
vigour from your free saulot/enosh?
Enosh, btw, rocks. 2 free perma stealth on someone with obeah?
sweeeeeet!
>
> -John Flournoy
Rehlow
Need to find a non-scarce vamp with OBE though.
TEM: Search your crypt and/or ash heap for a *non-scarce* vampire
with
capacity X or less. Put that vampire in play, with no blood.
Later,
~Rehlow
The Lasombra
>Do we have to sac an ally or retainer when War ghoul gets summoned?
Yes.
>LSJ might confirm the yes or the no? just to make sure no discussions
>erupt for nothing.
You might re-read card text, it seems pretty clear from here.
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=Cardlist_W#War_Ghoul
"When War Ghoul enters play, burn an ally or retainer you control."
and for emphasis "enters play"
Not "is recruited", "enters play". No matter how the War Ghoul enters
play, you must burn an ally or retainer you control.
The Lasombra
>Need to find a non-scarce vamp with OBE though.
Not really. Your vampire that isn't doing the Summon History can be
brought into play normally. I would recommend Eurayle, if she matches
your grouping.
>TEM: Search your crypt and/or ash heap for a *non-scarce* vampire
>with
>capacity X or less. Put that vampire in play, with no blood.
The one with no blood is the one that needs to receive the Renewed
Vigor. (And the one playing the Summon History will need it too.)
Summon History on your predator's turn with Enkil Cog and some form of
blood movement (hunting ground, coven, etc., etc., etc.) followed up
by a Renewed Vigor or Political Action Awe/Voter Captivation looks
like a plan to me.
Rehlow
> On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:32:13 -0800 (PST), Rehlow wrote:
> >Need to find a non-scarce vamp with OBE though.
>
> Not really. Your vampire that isn't doing the Summon History can be
> brought into play normally. I would recommend Eurayle, if she matches
> your grouping.
>
Gotcha. If you were going to summon them you'd only need 1 in the
crypt, but 4 Trujah, 4 Eurayle/other OBE, 4 others would work as a
crypt. If you can summon more than 4 other vamps you probably already
won.
> >TEM: Search your crypt and/or ash heap for a *non-scarce* vampire
> >with
> >capacity X or less. Put that vampire in play, with no blood.
>
> The one with no blood is the one that needs to receive the Renewed
> Vigor. (And the one playing the Summon History will need it too.)
>
Sure, summoning someone with OBE doesn't help you play Renewed Vigor
on them. You'd still need something like Heidelburg to move blood back
and forth.
> Summon History on your predator's turn with Enkil Cog and some form of
> blood movement (hunting ground, coven, etc., etc., etc.) followed up
> by a Renewed Vigor or Political Action Awe/Voter Captivation looks
> like a plan to me.
Out of turn summoning does give you a longer window to summon a
vampire and then get it blood before it has to hunt. Now I need to get
some Enkil Cogs (still own 0) and more Summon History (opened 1 in 1
box). :(
Later,
~Rehlow