Siren's Lure + Hidden Lurker
Blooded Sand
Type: Action Modifier
Requires: Melpominee/Celerity
[cel] This vampire burns 2 blood to get +1 stealth.
[mel] Only usable by an untapped ready vampire other than the acting
minion when a minion attempts to block. That minion cannot block this
action. Tap this vampire and that minion. Once the action resolves,
this vampire enters combat with that minion.
[MEL] As [mel] above, but do not tap this modifying vampire.
Hidden Lurker
Type: Action Modifier
Requires: Obfuscate
Only usable by a ready untapped vampire other than the acting minion.
Only usable after a combat between the acting minion you control and a
blocking minion.
[obf] Tap this vampire. This vampire enters combat with the blocking
minion. The first round of this new combat, the blocking minion cannot
strike.
[OBF] As above, with an optional press.
Vampire A, with OBF and MEL plays Sirens lure at MEL while Vamp B is
acting. Vamp C blocks successfully.
Can B play both HL and SL?
ie enter combat twice?
LSJ
> Vampire A, with OBF and MEL plays [Siren's Lure] at MEL while Vamp B is
> acting. Vamp C blocks successfully.
>
No. You cannot queue a combat while there is a combat already queued.
Google: Siren's Lure Lurker author:LSJ
Blooded Sand
Did Hidden Lurker Siren Lure, got nothing.... Funny.
So is the cannot while queued a specific ruling?
And would it make any difference if the Sirens Lure was played, Vamp A
played Form of mist at PRO, then B played HL?
LSJ
> On Mar 23, 6:14 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>> Blooded Sand wrote:
>>> Vampire A, with OBF and MEL plays [Siren's Lure] at MEL while Vamp B is
>>> acting. Vamp C blocks successfully.
>>> Can B play both [Hidden Lurker] and SL?
>> No. You cannot queue a combat while there is a combat already queued.
>>
>> Google: Siren's Lure Lurker author:LSJ
>
> Did Hidden Lurker Siren Lure, got nothing.... Funny.
>
> So is the cannot while queued a specific ruling?
It's a general ruling.
> And would it make any difference if the Sirens Lure was played, Vamp A
> played Form of mist at PRO, then B played HL?
No. B cannot play HL (nor a Psyche! nor a Fast Reaction) while there is a
pending combat.
Blooded Sand
Okay....
So, Vamp A acting Via Madness network/Enkil Cog, is bleeding my prey.
Vamp C attempts to block, Vamp B plays Sirens lure
During combat A threatens agg, i play Rothschreck. C cannot now play
Psyche as there is already a pending combat?
LSJ
> On Mar 24, 11:27 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>> Blooded Sand wrote:
>>> So is the cannot while queued a specific ruling?
>> It's a general ruling.
>>
>>> And would it make any difference if the Sirens Lure was played, Vamp A
>>> played Form of mist at PRO, then B played HL?
>> No. B cannot play HL (nor a Psyche! nor a Fast Reaction) while there is a
>> pending combat.
>
> Vamp C attempts to block, Vamp B plays Sirens lure
>
> During combat A threatens agg, i play Rothschreck. C cannot now play
> Psyche as there is already a pending combat?
Right. It's a general ruling.
Blooded Sand
You mean to say you are not gonna scuttle my super sneaky underhanded
uber Malk and Duaghters out of turn Rotshit rush deck?
Wooooooooooohoooooooooo!
:)
Jozxyqk
I actually thought Siren's Lure was ruled differently.
Since Siren's Lure's timing is "once the action resolves", which is after
all queued combats _during_ the action would happen, it's a little bit
different from playing psyche/hidden lurker during the action.
The conversation about this seems very familiar, although I can't find
the magical google groups search that comes up with a result that supports
this memory....
Jozxyqk
> I actually thought Siren's Lure was ruled differently.
> Since Siren's Lure's timing is "once the action resolves", which is after
> all queued combats _during_ the action would happen, it's a little bit
> different from playing psyche/hidden lurker during the action.
> The conversation about this seems very familiar, although I can't find
> the magical google groups search that comes up with a result that supports
> this memory....
Here, I found a vague reference to this while searching my IRC logs:
***
<Jozxyqk> i was also trying to explain to someone off-list, why you can play Psyche after
siren's lure was played, but not after blissful
<Jozxyqk> in that, sirens lure happens after all other combats, at the end of the action
<Jozxyqk> chain up as many combats as you like, the siren's lure combat is still going to
happen after those
<LSJ> Right.
<LSJ> Siren't Lure's combat isn't in the same "pending" class as the normal pending ones.
<LSJ> It's delayed.
***
I could keep searching for more solid references, though.
LSJ
> I actually thought Siren's Lure was ruled differently.
> Since Siren's Lure's timing is "once the action resolves", which is after
> all queued combats _during_ the action would happen, it's a little bit
> different from playing psyche/hidden lurker during the action.
>
> The conversation about this seems very familiar, although I can't find
> the magical google groups search that comes up with a result that supports
> this memory....
Yeah. I had the same vague memory. But found nothing to back it up.
LSJ
Nice work. I've got this on the RT review list (to make it solid). If you turn
up something solid, I'll happily remove from the list.
Blooded Sand
So does this change anything? Is my mighty dabchick of dooooooom being
scuttled?
Juggernaut1981
It seems to initially be suggesting this:
If you trigger a combat from an action, a Siren's Lure Combat is put
into the queue at the end. However it seems that if you put a Siren's
Lure Combat into the list you've effectively "finalised the list of
combats" and can't add into the middle of the list. If you Psyche! to
continue after the Siren's Lure combat, then you're making a new list.
So possibly you can Rush, HL, Siren's Lure, Psyche! but you can't
Rush, SL, HL because SL closes the end of the queue of combats and HL
would happen before that closure.
LSJ> Is there a General Ruling on Sequencing Combats? i.e. "You may
only initiate a combat during an action with an action modifier or
card-text ability once (or once per successful block)"
Thereby meaning you can get HL or SL but not both, however Form of
Mist + Block + HL is still valid if you haven't used HL or SL yet. Or
in the second case that you can only get one HL/SL combat per
successful block.
Blooded Sand
My question is more along the lines of if there is a combat queued by
SL, can the opposing minion play Psyche?