Late, latest and last Giovanni Newsletter
Orpheus
This Newsletter will come as follows :
1. Edito : My Black Hand in your Face
2. Fiction : The Third Plague of Marseille Part III
3. Vampires of the Month : Igniazio Giovanni, Archbishop Vasquez
4. Card of the Month : Chill of Oblivion
5. Other Black Hand cards of interest
6. Deck of the Month : Chill of Evernight
7. What will come next...
1. Edito : My Black Hand in your Face
So, here it comes at last : Black Hand. And most surprisingly, there is ONE
independent vampire and he is Giovanni (did you notice that the Giovanni are
the ONLY Clan with no Sabbat or Camarilla vampire ?!) ; and there is one
Necro card, not to mention (yet) a few other goodies. I don't know if it
will bear fruits, but the obvious Intent of the game designers here is to
allow for a fighting strategy for the Giovanni. Time will tell.
2. Fiction : The Third Plague of Marseille Part III
"- Chambellan, will you please tell me what happened during my short leave ?
- Certainly Prince. Let's see."
The Ventrue Chambellan Pierre de Brouillet went through his notes. They were
numerous and quite thorough. Still, he was able to find the information he
was looking for, while still standing in front of his Prince, who sat behind
his massive oaken desk and stared at the artificial fireplace.
".So we had a complaint from the staff of Messire Villon, stating that one
of his envoyée, name of Antoinette, went missing on the night of September,
the 21th. The night after that, Gary "The Eye" and a young assamite named
Rafik were reported missing. That same night, we had reports of a strange
disturbance in the Vieux Port neighborhood. Meanwhile, the Tremere Régis
began to plot secretly against you, with the help of the Followers of Set,
and put a number of their pawns in place instead of Marc's Lasombra
influences. Your "aunt" called, and said that a major thinning of the veil
was occuring on your Praxis. Werewolves have been spotted on the edge of
town, making a move for the hills of Luminy. You received a package from
your Boston cousin, a letter from Emiliano the Prince of Rome, an invitation
from the Prince of Barcelona, a death threat from some Brujah Ancilla, and a
plea for haven from the ex-Prince of Grenoble, who got pushed out of service
and would like to settle for a while in Aix-en-Provence. Oh, yes, I almost
forgot : your chief of security resigned and had to be permanently put out
of service - which Lya, your new chief of security, did marvelously.
- How long was I away, Pierre ?
- A Month, my Prince.
- A month only ? Well, I will never get used to this Information Age. Things
go so fast, these nights ! All right. First, send a letter to his Medieval
Poetry.
- Excuse me, Sir ?
- Well, you know, Pierre, the bullchaser who fancies himself Prince of all
France ? That little effeminate fifth generation poseur who allegedly wrote
"La Ballade des Pendus" and now is good for nothing but ruling a crowd of
bootlicking leeches ?
- Urm, you must mean his Majesty Villon ?
- Yes, him. Send him a letter. Tell him we know nothing about his envoy, nor
do we care. Tell him that we cannot guarantee the safety of someone on our
territory if we are not aware of her presence.
- But sir, we were !
- He doesn't have to know that, nor can he prove it. Tell him that, had we
known of her wereabouts, we would have had her brought to us and
interrogated, for she would surely have been a pawn of the sabbatics - a
truthful member of the Camarilla always following the procedure, as we all
know. And that my Ravnos Scourge will be punished for not learning of her
presence on my territory.
- Adrien ? But why.
- Adrien will not be punished, of course. But Villon loves the Ravnos, and
the grinding of his teeth will be heard in all his Elyseum while reading
these lines. I may even send a spirit spy to tell me the face he will make
while reading these lines. Oh, one last detail : make sure the letter is
given to him personnaly by Nicolas. He wants to get in my good favors.
- But the bringer of such a message will certainly be destroyed !!
- Will he ? Well, these are barbaric times. I thought these strange customs
had been forlorn since the Roman Empire. Well, at least, if he survives, he
will have proven himself worthy of it, for once. Then, there is the matter
of these other disparitions. Gary was useful to me, in ways nobody - and
especially not him - could have understood. This is bad. Tell Adrien to make
a very serious enquiry on that subject. I need all the details about the
Vieux Port troubles. Have Mohammed check the edges of town for werewolf
presence, and gather his Gangrels if necessary : they are not to act, but
will await my direct orders and report only to him, and him to me. Do you
have all this ?
- Yes, my Prince.
- Good. Then, I'll read the mail and check the package. Have Lya sent to my
office in fifteen minutes. As for the Setites and Tremere, I'm sure the
Assamites and Lasombra will repay them in kind, once supplied with the right
information. We'll deal with this in the nights to come. Oh, and Pierre ?
- Yes, Sir ?
- Good work. You still need to toughten a little bit, to put your conscience
aside while dealing with business. But you certainly are my most valuable
asset. I am certain you wouldn't disappoint me, would you Pierre ?
- Certainly not, my Prince.
- Good. You can go. And give my regards to your lovely wife.
- Yes Sir".
The Ventrue couldn't repress a little shudder. A chill passed through his
spine, as if someone had stepped on his grave, and maybe that had been the
case - who knows, when you're dealing with Necromancers ? Soon, he would
have his part to play in the struggle versus Paris and their Belgian allies,
and the message was quite clear : he wouldn't fail and live to tell about
it.
In his office, ¨Prince Orpheus let the poker mask slip from his face. He was
worried. Very worried. All these signs looked like bad omens, portents he
couldn't fathom but could only fear.
He opened the package from Boston : it was the head of an american who had
crossed his way recently. He now owed a favor to Harold Milliner. He would
kill him rather than having to repay this witless brute for his service.
He read the letter from Roma. The news were bad. There was talk of ill wind,
of a lost ship sailing back to its old harbor, of babies kept in
formaldehyde, and other coded sentences. What if really meant was so
incredible and scary that even the centuries-old vampire couldn't help but
feeling a sense of inevitable doom pending upon him, his city, and maybe
much more.
The ring from the interphone sprang him back from his reverie.
"- Yes ?
- Sir, it's Céline. Lya is here to see you, should I let her in ?
- Yes, please do so. Also arrange for a video conference with the Vienna
Tremere chantry Elder as soon as possible. And tell Antoine to organise an
emergency meeting of the Council in the Crypt for 2 o'clock.
- But sir, this is in only three hours ! If I may say so, wouldn't it be
easier to call this meeting tomorrow night ?
- My dear, if we do not act very, very fast, and with the precision and
efficiency that are required, there may very well never be a tomorrow night.
Not one that we could see, anyway."
3. Vampires of the Month : Igniazio Giovanni, Archbishop Vasquez.
Everyone has instantly recognized Igniazio for what he was : the new
Giovanni Fighting Machine. But he isn't the only new vampire with NEC, and
we'll take a look at our new Archbishop too. Interestingly enough, both are
9-Caps (not my favourite cost.). Let's see :
Igniazio Giovanni (sang to the tune of the Fernandel song.)
9-Cap : obf DOM FOR NEC POT ; Group 3.
Independent: Ignazio can enter combat with a vampire of capacity less than 7
controlled by your predator or prey as a (D) action. +1 strength.
So what can this guy do ? More exactly, where does he fit ?
- He is obviously Sylvia's little brother. That is, in a deck where she
doesn't use her ANI (if she does, we will prefer either Marty or Julio
Martinez). Such a deck would also include Vittorio, and possibly some small
pot/for/dom (Earl, Charice Fontaigne and Truman seem to be the best ones for
their cost) or some small Giovanni (Regina would only be a parody of Sylvia
here). Nice Freak rush/bleed/ash heap toolbox, with Deflects. Include some
rush possibilities for the ones bigger than 6 or if Igniazio gets into
trouble (or if you want him to multi-rush), or just orient the deck as a
bruise'n' bleed with some inherent rush option (don't forget your
Graverobbings).
- He makes for one more Gio with Obf, and this one can fight : good option
in a Krassimir Bruise'n'bleed ; add Carlotta for her naughty special,
Igniazio puts Pochtli out of work ; some small bruisers will fit in nicely
(and no, Chas doesn't ; I tried many times but his weakness is just too
great : sometimes you need his to act too !!). Another nice combo is :
Domain of Evernight at inf Temporis with Chill of Oblivion, verrrrry nice in
a Krass B'n'B, and Igniazio will lend a very appreciated hand.
So anyway we are in a fight-oriented configuration.
We might want to study what we can do with Pot / For / Dom / Nec.
Pot / For is pretty obvious, and pretty lethal too. It does have one great
weakness, though (ask the Blood Brothers.) : no manoeuver !! We won't count
Thrown Gates, because we'll prefer IG to Thoughts Betrayed for obvious
reasons. So you'll want to pack some Fake Out, IR Goggles or Unflinching
Persistence (for those who have FOR). Once at close, everyone will suffer
from your IG / big strike / reduce / disarm combo. Of course, Freak Drive
and Graverobbing come right next, in the best of worlds.
Dom comes for Graves, bleed and Deflects, all right.
And what the Hell will Necro be used for ???
Let's take a peek at http://necrobones.free.fr/necromancy.htm and see what
we can use.
If you decapitate : Daemonic Possession ; still, I prefer Graverobbing when
possible.
Ex Nihilo would go completely a contrario from our strategy, so let's forget
it.
Masquer can be nice, especially if you have a Path in play (but it isn't
worth including one for so little).
Possession is for losers. Or is it ? If you graverob at inf and get
diablerized, of diablerize yourself, it's one more minion back in play.
Soul Stealing could be nice, but it requires burning a vampire ; might as
well play some Taste of Vitae in our deck.
Torment the Soul is a bad joke. So what ? If you use it by surprise at
second round (press from the IG), some people may not laugh right away.
If you want stealth / Intercept, you may put some Spectral Divinations. Call
of the Hungry Dead will probably be a worthless waste of space.
So we must get to the (usual) conclusion : Nec won't be much use here. Just
a fight deck with some Giovanni in it (which gives some advantages you
shouldn't forget, like Leonardo, the Acquired Ventrue Assets etc). Well, a
few cards will be useful, but.
Of course, we now have Chill of Oblivion. But what use, says you, if we can
reduce damage altogether ?
Well, in a B'n'B strategy, with some Dawn Ops, it will nicely replace the
Skin of Nights. SO this is a variant of the Krassimir trick, only. without
Krassimir ! Thank you Igniazio.
Now, on to our new friend with the longest name :
Marino Reymundo Vasquez
9-Cap : ani AUS DOM NEC THA ; Group 3 Tremere Antitribu
Sabbat Archbishop of Barcelona: +1 bleed
This guy has 2 votes, and +1 Bleed is nice if we want to include much fight
and few bleed modifiers.
Now with the disciplines :
Ani will marginally interest us (sure, he could fit with Enzo and Sylvia,
but without Pot.).
So we're stuck with AUS/DOM/NEC/THA. We will regret the absence of Pot for
the Disarm, but if we want that we have Oliver. So what will we use this guy
for ?
His most obvious mates are : Valois Sang, Marianna, Oliver Thrace, Lille
Haake and Ambrogino. Lille will probably be uninteresting for us : I'll
trade her vote and her special for Marino's or Oliver anytime !! If we only
need inf Nec, we can include Ian Forrestal. The least to say is that these
aren't precisely small vampires !! We'll probably want to surround them with
lesser minions.
So now, what can we do with these guys ?
Miscellaneous ideas are :
- A "you don't do me nothing" multi-rush (Nose of the Hound / Haven
Uncovered, Rutor's Hand for multi), based on the Chill of Oblivion / Ex
Nihilo combination. As nothing can hurt you, you'll Betray the Thoughts,
Trap, and steal blood. Will do nicely with a few Baleful Dolls and some
Society of Leopold. Only trouble is the high cost in blood (you'll probably
want to pack some Summon Soul, a few Leonardo, and some Golcondas just in
case.). Difficult one to pull, given the size of the vampires, but could be
nice.
- A Perfect Clarity Necrobleed deck ? Sure, why not. But with such big
vampires, you'll be dead before you can say "I equip with a Pulse.". Well,
mybe not if you pack enough deflections, so who knows ? And you know who
would fight right into this deck, even without Tha ? Sure, our friendly
neighbour Le Din Tho, of course !!
- You can now give the Tremere and Anti some new Nec options : Baleful
Dolls, Shambling Hordes (nicely repaid by some rush / steal blood), maybe
even puppeteers. Yeah, ok, I know. We still need a few more interesting Nec
cards. Well, say that to Santa (Wolf) Claws, all right ?!
So, will they become the basis for many new decks, or be very soon forgotten
? Time will tell.
4. Card of the Month : Chill of Oblivion
Chill of Oblivion : +1 stealth action. [nec] Put this card on a ready
vampire. This vampire may burn this card in combat to treat aggravated
damage as normal for the remainder of combat. A vampire can have only one
Chill of Oblivion. [NEC] As above, and this acting vampire untaps during
your next discard phase.
So, is it really an interesting card ? What's its real use, in which decks
is it worth including ?
The options that immediately appear to my sick necromancing mind are :
- avoid aggravated damage in a fight deck without damage prevention (a Pot /
Thau deck for example)
- build a bruise'n'bleed around it : if you block me, you will get
aggravated damage, not me (perfect in a Krassimir deck in conjunction with
Domain of Evernight, possible in a Giovanni / For B'n'B, but less
interesting as For will mostly take care of damage - still useful when the
soak cards come missing or against environmental damage for instance).
- Build a stupid trick deck that will never work around Ex Nihilo and Chill
: YOU CAN'T HURT ME !! Needless to say, this idea is unprobable enough to
appeal to me. ;)
5. Other Black Hand Cards of interest
Many cards would be great for the Giovanni (Capitalist, a very Giovanni
name, although I'd prefer Creepshow Casino.) but can't be used as they are
Sabbat only. And no way are they useful enough to justify becoming Sabbat
IMO. Too bad. Well, the Harbingers and necromancing Kyasid can still benefit
from them, though.
So, what is left for us ?
Not much. Let's see.
Flaming Candle [BH:R]
Equipment.
The vampire with this equipment may burn 1 blood when he or she declares an
action. If he or she does so, vampires cannot block this action, and the
candle is burned. Only one Flaming Candle can be played in a game.
Shouldn't be useful for the Giovanni, but one never knows (sometimes people
stay totally untapped to resist you, and you don't have your Anarch
Troublemakers in game.).
Inscription [BH:U]
Equipment.
[tha] Put this equipment on a ready vampire and put a card that requires
Thaumaturgy from your hand on it (this acting vampire pays the cost of that
card). The vampire with this equipment can burn this equipment to use the
basic Thaumaturgy ability of that card.
[THA] As above, but the vampire can use the superior Thaumaturgy ability of
the card.
I find this card utterly worthless in most decks, and certainly not
interesting for us : if we want to give some Tha to our vamps, we'll put
some Venificorum Artum Sanguis and the cards we want, basta.
Kaymakli Barrier [BH:R]
Requires a ready vampire. Unique.
(D) Put this card on a younger ready vampire. You still control this card.
This vampire cannot block undirected actions. (D) actions cost this vampire
an additional blood.
Great card if your deck is based upon indirected actions (voting, recruiting
etc.). Put 2 in any Necroallies deck.
Mesmerize [BH:R]
+1 stealth action.
[dom] (D) Steal equipment from an ally.
[DOM] (D) Steal equipment from a younger vampire.
What do you think we are ? Ravnos ? Put this card back where it belongs : in
your trading folder.
Mistrust [BH:R]
Master.
Burn a scarce vampire in torpor or move a ready scarce vampire to his or her
controller's uncontrolled region, with all cards and counters on him or her
(which are out of play as long as the vampire remains out of play).
Man, do I hate Hoser cards !!! Could be a real bother to us, now that we
have the Nagaraja, Krassimir ans sometimes Matthias to help so often ! But
then, I think (and hope) few people will waste a Master space for it. Still
: don't forget your Sudden Reversals.
Path of Death and the Soul
Nice name, but alas no use to us at all (and what is it really worth anyway
?).
Social Ladder [BH:R]
Master.
Put this card on a ready vampire you control. During your next influence
phase, remove this vampire from the game and move all the blood counters
from that vampire to an older vampire in your uncontrolled region.
Now, here's a card you'll want to play anytime you need a very big vampire
to do things right, but want to deflect in the meantime. Yes, I'm thinking
of a Sylvia / Igniazio deck, why ?
Specialization [BH:R]
Unique master.
Put this card in play. During your untap phase, you may tap this card and
discard two copies of the same card from your hand to gain 1 pool. Draw back
up to your hand size afterward.
If your deck is very monomaniacal (bleed, fight, Shamblings.), you NEED to
include one copy of this ! Might even be better than in Dreams in some
decks.
Vox Domini [BH:R]
Master: out-of-turn.
Only usable during the referendum of a political action. Not usable on a
referendum that is automatically
passing. The referendum fails. Each Methuselah may play only one Vox Domini
each game.
Could save you from the fatal Protect Thine Own. Still, I think I'll prefer
a Direct Intervention or Delaying Tactics (especially with Le Din Tho)
instead.
In short : not much for us in Black Hand. Still, THE card and the two
vampires may make - or not - a difference. Time will tell.
6. Deck of The Month : Chill of Evernight
Just a slight variation on my Krassimir bruise toolbox, now including a few
Chill of Oblivion, and some Igniazio Giovanni (a little expensive, but he
can rush, has Obf, and his +1 strength should come in handy for placing a
few disarms. loads better than Pochtli !!). I haven't tested this variation
yet, so it won't be optimised, nor fit for big tournament scenes. It also
relies heavily on getting Carlotta to fetch what you need.
Crypt :
Krassimir x 4
Carlotta Giovanni x 3
Ignazio Giovanni x 2
Francesca Giovanni
Isabel Giovanni
Chas Giovanni Tello (for blocking / redirecting)
24 Actions :
4 Bum'Rush
4 Chill of Oblivion
8 Govern the Unaligned
5 Conditionning
3 Graverobbing
16 Reactions :
7 Deflections
6 Wake With Evening's Freshness
3 Delaying Tactic
15 Masters :
4 Blood Dolls
1 Minion Tap
4 Haven Uncovered
1 Morgue H.G.
1 Tabriz Assembly
2 Direct Intervention
2 Sudden Reversal
24 Combat :
5 Disarm
9 Lapse
10 Thrown Gates
9 Action Modifiers : Domain of Evernight
1 Ally : Leonardo, the Mortician
1 Equipement : Sargon Fragment
Obviously not the greatest or easiest deck ever, requires lots of planning,
but enormous fun to play (even without the Black Hand additions).
7. What will come next.
Ok, so this (late.) newsletter should be the last of its ilk. I have the
great pleasure and privilege to announce that the next time you will witness
the birth of the NECROMANCING NEWSLETTER !!
This will regroup the Giovanni, Harbingers of Skulls, Nagaraja and Samedi
newsletters. Depending on available time and subjects, we will either
alternate or regroup these Clans. Redactors should include Tobias op den
Brouw, Nagaraja and myself (other persons, including past redactors, are
welcome to contribute).
Until then, may you Rest in Peace.
Orpheus, from his Mausoleum, Massilia.
The Lasombra
<orph...@DEADSPAMfree.fr> wrote:
>4. Card of the Month : Chill of Oblivion
>Chill of Oblivion : +1 stealth action. [nec] Put this card on a ready
>vampire. This vampire may burn this card in combat to treat aggravated
>damage as normal for the remainder of combat. A vampire can have only one
>Chill of Oblivion. [NEC] As above, and this acting vampire untaps during
>your next discard phase.
>So, is it really an interesting card ? What's its real use, in which decks
>is it worth including ?
>The options that immediately appear to my sick necromancing mind are :
>- avoid aggravated damage in a fight deck without damage prevention (a Pot /
>Thau deck for example)
>- build a bruise'n'bleed around it : if you block me, you will get
>aggravated damage, not me (perfect in a Krassimir deck in conjunction with
>Domain of Evernight, possible in a Giovanni / For B'n'B, but less
>interesting as For will mostly take care of damage - still useful when the
>soak cards come missing or against environmental damage for instance).
>- Build a stupid trick deck that will never work around Ex Nihilo and Chill
>: YOU CAN'T HURT ME !! Needless to say, this idea is unprobable enough to
>appeal to me. ;)
Already been done, see the following:
Deck Name: Giovanni
Created By: David Tatu
Description:
Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 14, Max: 28, Avg: 5.42)
----------------------------------------------
2 Isabel Giovanni DOM NEC pot 5, Giovanni:2
1 Carlotta Giovanni dom NEC obf POT 7, Giovanni:2
1 Lia Milliner dom nec 3, Giovanni:3
1 Stefano Giovanni DOM nec pot pre 6, Giovanni:2
2 Gillespi Giovanni aus DOM NEC POT 7, Giovanni:2
2 Andrea Giovanni DOM NEC pot vic 7, Giovanni:2
1 Gloria Giovanni DOM nec 4, Giovanni:2
1 Marciana Giovanni dom 2, Giovanni:2
1 Le Dinh Tho aus dom NEC 5, Nagaraja:2
Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (14 cards)
1 Acquired Ventrue Assets
3 Blood Doll
1 Creepshow Casino
1 Dominate
1 Dreams of the Sphinx
1 Giant`s Blood
1 Jake Washington (Hunter)
1 KRCG News Radio
1 Mausoleum, Venice, The
1 Metro Underground
1 Morgue Hunting Ground
1 Path of Bone, The
Action (14 cards)
2 Chill of Oblivion
6 Ex Nihilo
3 Scouting Mission
3 Whispers from the Dead
Action Modifier (22 cards)
5 Call of the Hungry Dead
2 Conditioning
4 Foreshadowing Destruction
5 Seduction
2 Sleeping Mind, The
4 Threats
Reaction (15 cards)
5 Deflection
3 Obedience
1 Redirection
6 Wake with Evening`s Freshness
Combat (10 cards)
1 Pushing the Limit
9 Spiritual Intervention
Ally (2 cards)
1 Brigitte Gebauer (Wraith)
1 Leonardo, Mortician
Retainer (4 cards)
4 Zombie
Equipment (3 cards)
2 Cooler
1 Monocle of Clarity
Combo (6 cards)
6 Spectral Divination
This deck was last saved at 11:17:43 AM on 1/18/2004
Orpheus
Chill
> >: YOU CAN'T HURT ME !! Needless to say, this idea is unprobable enough to
> >appeal to me. ;)
>
> Already been done, see the following:
Interesting. Dave had told me about it (you should know I know all about
Necromacers worldwive !!). ;-)
But I'm not convinced that 2 Chill of Oblivion really qualify as the focus
of the strategy (it looks like a "just in case" combo with the Ex Nihilo).
Yours,
--
Orpheus, from his Mausoleum, Massilia
salem
<orph...@DEADSPAMfree.fr> scrawled:
>> >- Build a stupid trick deck that will never work around Ex Nihilo and
>Chill
>> >: YOU CAN'T HURT ME !! Needless to say, this idea is unprobable enough to
>> >appeal to me. ;)
but they can hurt you :D
ex nihilio
+1 stealth action. [nec] Put this card on this vampire. The vampire
with this card gets +1 stealth. Damage inflicted by this vampire in
combat is reduced to 0, and this vampire is immune to non-aggravated
damage. This vampire cannot gain blood; any blood this vampire gains
goes to the blood bank instead. During your master phase, this vampire
burns 1 blood or is burned. You may choose to burn this card during
your untap phase. [NEC] As above, but you may burn this card during
any Methuselah's untap phase.
Chill of Oblivion
+1 stealth action. [nec] Put this card on a ready vampire. This
vampire may burn this card in combat to treat aggravated damage as
normal for the remainder of combat. A vampire can have only one Chill
of Oblivion. [NEC] As above, and this acting vampire untaps during
your next discard phase.
So, if someone is doing aggravated damage to you, you will not be
immune to it (ex nihilio). You may burn the Chill to treat it as
normal, but it is still agg damage. so you'll burn 1 blood to heal
each point of agg-as-normal damage, or go to torpor if you have no
blood.
See threads on superior Resilience and Skin of Night.
salem
domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm
Orpheus
> >Chill
> >> >: YOU CAN'T HURT ME !! Needless to say, this idea is unprobable enough
to
> >> >appeal to me. ;)
>
> but they can hurt you :D
> immune to it (ex nihilio). You may burn the Chill to treat it as
> normal, but it is still agg damage. so you'll burn 1 blood to heal
> each point of agg-as-normal damage, or go to torpor if you have no
> blood.
>
> See threads on superior Resilience and Skin of Night.
All right. Still, people who do aggravated seldom do lots of damage, so it's
still a pretty good defense. Just less good.
Orpheus
hawk_the_demon
>
> ex nihilio
>
> Chill of Oblivion
> '... burn this card in combat to treat aggravated damage as normal ...'
there are only two types of damage defined in the rulebook: aggravated
and normal (sometimes called non-aggravated damage or regular damage).
if you treat aggravated damage as normal damage and are immune to
non-aggravated (which equals being immune to normal damage), then you
are surely immune to aggravated damage that is treated as normal
(non-aggravated) damage.
salem
scrawled:
>salem <salem_ch...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> but they can hurt you :D
>>
>> ex nihilio
>> '... and this vampire is immune to non-aggravated damage ...'
>>
>> Chill of Oblivion
>> '... burn this card in combat to treat aggravated damage as normal ...'
>
>there are only two types of damage defined in the rulebook: aggravated
>and normal (sometimes called non-aggravated damage or regular damage).
correct.
>if you treat aggravated damage as normal damage and are immune to
>non-aggravated (which equals being immune to normal damage), then you
>are surely immune to aggravated damage that is treated as normal
>(non-aggravated) damage.
Nup.
see:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=922f1j%247fl%241%40nnrp1.deja.com
and
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3FC3504B.8030700%40white-wolf.com
which are, respectively:
****
From: LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com>
Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad
Subject: Re: Skin of night+resillence Qustion.
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 15:06:29 GMT
Organization: Deja.com
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <922f1j$7fl$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
References: <921m4e$n9c$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
take...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Skin of night allows to treat agg gamage like normal. So, can I play it
> and then play Superior Resillence to prevent 3 agg damage?
No. Superior Resilience will only prevent normal (non-agg) damage.
Skin of Night allows you to treat the damage as normal (that is,
you can burn a blood to heal it and it won't burn you if your
wounded), but the damage is still aggravated.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
From: LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com>
Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad
Subject: Re: [LSJ] Flesh of Marble & Skin of Night Q
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 07:51:23 -0500
Organization: White Wolf, Inc.
Lines: 30
Message-ID: <3FC3504B...@white-wolf.com>
References: <690c2085.03112...@posting.google.com>
<lef6sv86icqdck4ku...@4ax.com>
salem wrote:
> athosg...@gmx.at (Angus, the Unruled) scrawled:
>>Vampire A and Vampire B are in combat.
>>Vampire B plays Flesh of Marble at inferior.
>>Vampire A strikes for 3 aggravated.
>>Vampire B plays Skin of Night at inferior.
>>
>>Does Vampire B have to pay 3 blood (the Flesh of Marble not kicking in
>>because it is aggravated damage),
>
> this one.
>
>>or only 1 (Flesh of Marble
>>preventing the other 2 due to Skin of Night "treating them" as normal
>>damage)?
>
> The damage is still aggravated. inferior Flesh of Marble won't
> prevent/reduce it. It's just treated as normal damage when you're
> resolving it (due to the skin of night).
>
> Same for Resilience (sup: prevent 3 non-agg) and Skin of Night. it
> doesn't work.
Correct.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
****
Hollowboy
> in a Krassimir Bruise'n'bleed ; add Carlotta for her naughty special,
> Igniazio puts Pochtli out of work ; some small bruisers will fit in nicely
> (and no, Chas doesn't ; I tried many times but his weakness is just too
> great : sometimes you need his to act too !!). Another nice combo is :
> Domain of Evernight at inf Temporis with Chill of Oblivion, verrrrry nice in
> a Krass B'n'B, and Igniazio will lend a very appreciated hand.
If you are playing Chas in an obf deck, a possibility is to give Chas
a skill card, and use Mask of 1000 Faces so that he takes actions over
halfway. It gets around his special disability, and lets both vampires
play Command of the Beast, if you are into that sort of thing :-)
I have seen this done in a fairly dangerous trick deck.
Ability: When Chas announces an action, any other Methuselah can
discard a master card as an out-of-turn master to cause the action to
fail. Chas gets +1 strength when in combat with a titled vampire.
Mask: Untap the acting minion and tap this vampire instead. Now this
vampire is the acting minion. The action resumes where it left off.
hawk_the_demon
> >if you treat aggravated damage as normal damage and are immune to
> >non-aggravated (which equals being immune to normal damage), then you
> >are surely immune to aggravated damage that is treated as normal
> >(non-aggravated) damage.
>
> Nup.
<snip quotes from LSJ regarding skin of night and resilience>
that is an entirely different scenario (which I read already btw.).
that scenario:
obviously, if a card (resilience: can't prevent agg at superior) can't
prevent aggravated damage, then, well..., it can't, no matter how you
treat it.
this scenario:
on the other hand, if aggravated damage is treated as normal because
of a card text, and you are immune to normal damage, then you must be
immune to all damage that you treat as normal.
of course LSJ has the final saying on how this works, but IMO this is
the only logical way (based on card text) to handle this scenario.
LSJ
> on the other hand, if aggravated damage is treated as normal because
> of a card text, and you are immune to normal damage, then you must be
> immune to all damage that you treat as normal.
Correct.
The vampire treats the incoming unprevented aggravated damage as if
it were normal damage.
If this vampire is immune to normal damage (via Ex Nihilo for example),
then the incoming damage which he treats as normal will be ignored.
salem
scrawled:
>hawk_the_demon wrote:
>> on the other hand, if aggravated damage is treated as normal because
>> of a card text, and you are immune to normal damage, then you must be
>> immune to all damage that you treat as normal.
>
>Correct.
>
>The vampire treats the incoming unprevented aggravated damage as if
>it were normal damage.
but he can't prevent it with a superior resilience? because, while he
is treating it like normal damage, that 'treatment' comes after damage
prevention, at which point the damage still is (and always will be)
aggravated?
>If this vampire is immune to normal damage (via Ex Nihilo for example),
>then the incoming damage which he treats as normal will be ignored.
at what point does the immunity kick in?
does 'immunity':
a)make the minion not have it (the damage) applied to him
b)prevent it all
c)he takes the damage, it is just not resolved
d)it resolves, but the resolution inolves not burning blood or being
wounded at all.
e)something else.
from the above ex nihilio + chill of oblivion ruling, i guess it has
to be c, d, or e.
hawk_the_demon
> at what point does the immunity kick in?
> does 'immunity':
> a)make the minion not have it (the damage) applied to him
> b)prevent it all
> c)he takes the damage, it is just not resolved
> d)it resolves, but the resolution inolves not burning blood or being
> wounded at all.
> e)something else.
>
> from the above ex nihilio + chill of oblivion ruling, i guess it has
> to be c, d, or e.
the immunity doesn't really need to kick in, it's just there. the
damage is always aggravated, the minion just treats it as normal,
which he is immune to (treats as it is no damage at all). resilience
simply can't prevent agg at superior, no matter how the minion treats
it.
LSJ
>>it were normal damage.
>
> but he can't prevent it with a superior resilience? because, while he
Superior resilience cannot prevent aggravated damage, by card text.
> is treating it like normal damage, that 'treatment' comes after damage
> prevention, at which point the damage still is (and always will be)
> aggravated?
Resilience doesn't care how the minion will handle the unprevented
damage, correct.
>>If this vampire is immune to normal damage (via Ex Nihilo for example),
>>then the incoming damage which he treats as normal will be ignored.
>
> at what point does the immunity kick in?
It is always on.
> does 'immunity':
> a)make the minion not have it (the damage) applied to him
> b)prevent it all
> c)he takes the damage, it is just not resolved
> d)it resolves, but the resolution inolves not burning blood or being
> wounded at all.
> e)something else.
>
> from the above ex nihilio + chill of oblivion ruling, i guess it has
> to be c, d, or e.
d) The damage is inflicted but ignored (and so it is not "successfully"
inflicted, for cards that care about such things).