Block success and block failure declarations, and Babble
ira...@gmail.com
Does a player actively declare that a block is successful/unsuccessful
when he has the impulse, or is success/failure of a block
automatically calculated by gamestate after all meths have passed
impulse? I think it must be the latter.
To ensure I understand the correct rules, here's an example:
Seating is A > B > C. Minion A (controlled by Meth A) bleeds. Minion
B wants to play Deflection. Minion C wants to play Babble at DEM on
Minion A prior to blocks being declined, in the hopes of top-decking a
Direct Intervention to cancel the upcoming bounce.
In this case, Minion C is able to play the Babble prior to the
Deflection, because blocks aren't actually declined until all Meths
pass impulse, and Deflection is played after blocks are declined.
Right?
If Meth C waited until after the Deflection was played, can he play
Babble, redraw a DI, then DI the Deflection? I think "No", since DI
"Cancels a minion card as it is played." But, now that I write that,
I'm confused why that's logical when combined with the following two
questions:
Is it possible to play Babble and then Terra Incognita the
Deflection? I don't know the answer. I guess "Yes", but that's
really 50-50.
Is it possible to play Wake with Evening's Freshness and then Terra
Incognita the Deflection? I'm almost certain the answer is Yes.
Thanks,
Ira
Babble
Reaction
Dementation
[dem] Give another ready minion +1 intercept.
[DEM] Tap this vampire to untap another ready minion. Not usable by a
blocking minion.
Direct Intervention
Master
[1 Pool]
Master: out-of-turn.
Cancel a minion card as it is played. No cost is paid. (If it was an
action card, the acting minion doesn't tap. If it was a strike card,
the minion chooses another strike.)
Terra Incognita
[Reaction] Reaction
Requires a ready Laibon. Not usable if you control any ready non-
Laibon vampires.
Reduce a bleed against you made by a non-Laibon controlled by your
predator by 1, or burn a blood to cancel a card that would retarget a
bleed to you played by a non-Laibon as it is played (no cost is paid).
Wake with Evening's Freshness
Reaction
Do not replace until your next untap phase.
Only usable by a tapped vampire. This reacting vampire can play
reaction cards and attempt to block as though untapped until the
current action is concluded.
LSJ
> Hello LSJ,
>
> Does a player actively declare that a block is successful/unsuccessful
> when he has the impulse, or is success/failure of a block
> automatically calculated by gamestate after all meths have passed
> impulse? I think it must be the latter.
The acting player can declare a block successful when he or she has the impulse
(i.e., when she would otherwise "pass" during a currently-succeeding block
attempt, she declare the block successful).
A block attempt fails only when all pass on a currently-failing block attempt.
> To ensure I understand the correct rules, here's an example:
>
> Seating is A > B > C. Minion A (controlled by Meth A) bleeds. Minion
> B wants to play Deflection. Minion C wants to play Babble at DEM on
> Minion A prior to blocks being declined, in the hopes of top-decking a
> Direct Intervention to cancel the upcoming bounce.
>
> In this case, Minion C is able to play the Babble prior to the
> Deflection, because blocks aren't actually declined until all Meths
> pass impulse, and Deflection is played after blocks are declined.
> Right?
Correct.
> If Meth C waited until after the Deflection was played, can he play
> Babble, redraw a DI, then DI the Deflection? I think "No", since DI
> "Cancels a minion card as it is played." But, now that I write that,
Right. Babble is not an "as some other card is played" card, so it cannot be
played in the "as Deflection is played" window. In order for it to be played
after Deflection, that "as played" window must have closed.
Also, "as played" limits everyone to cards in hand at the time of the
to-be-canceled card's play (before any cards, including the one to replace the
played card, are drawn).
> I'm confused why that's logical when combined with the following two
> questions:
>
> Is it possible to play Babble and then Terra Incognita the
> Deflection? I don't know the answer. I guess "Yes", but that's
> really 50-50.
Babble is not an "as played" card. It cannot be played in the "as played window".
> Is it possible to play Wake with Evening's Freshness and then Terra
> Incognita the Deflection? I'm almost certain the answer is Yes.
Yes. Wakes are playable in the "as played" window.
Ira Fay
OK. Can you explain how players know what cards and effects are in
the "as played" window, without the "as played" card text? As far as
I can tell, the answer is "because LSJ defined them as such," which is
actually an acceptable definition IMO, because LSJ is a clear
communicator and regularly available to answer questions.
I just want to know the entire list of cards that are in that window
(without having the "as played" card text.) Or, if an explicit list
isn't possible, then some definition I can use to deduce them for
myself.
I believe it's these cards only:
Wake with Evening's Freshness
Forced Awakening
On the Qui Vive
Fillip
Eyes of Argus at AUS
Gracetius
And if there were ever a reaction card printed that required Auspex
and canceled another card as it was played, then Helena, too.
Is it possible to tap or untap a card in play during the "as played"
window? I think the answer is no, for all cases (unless the effect
specifically states it's in the "as played" window.) We already know
that we can't tap the Erciyes Fragments to get a Sudden Reversal and
play it immediately (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-
cards.jyhad/msg/ea2cfbf09bfb8ccf) I believe it's also illegal to tap
Erciyes Fragments to get a Wake to play Touch of Clarity. Similarly
illegal to use Tattoo Signal or Zillah's Tears to play Touch of
Clarity. Right?
Is Rat's Warning or Guard Dogs in the "as played" window? I think
"no." Have I missed other cards? Hopefully not.
Therefore, I think the list of cards in the "as played" window,
without "as played" text, is limited to the list of 6 cards above.
Right?
Thanks,
Ira
Touch of Clarity
Action Modifier
Reaction
Dementation
[1 Blood]
Usable by an acting minion or any untapped ready minion.
[dem] Cancel a non-combat card that requires Dementation, Dominate
[dom] or Presence [pre] as it is played (no cost is paid). Tap this
vampire.
[DEM] As above, but do not tap this vampire.
Zillah's Tears
Action
+1 stealth action. Requires a ready Sabbat vampire.
Put this card on this acting vampire and move 1 blood from the blood
bank to this vampire. This Sabbat vampire can burn this card any time
after this turn ends to untap. A vampire can have only one Zillah's
Tears.
The Erciyes Fragments
Master
Unique master.
Put this card in play. Tap this card to move a library card from your
prey's ash heap to this card, face down. You may look at that card at
any time. You may play the card from the Fragments as if playing it
from your hand (requirements and cost, if any, apply as normal). When
that card is burned, remove it from the game instead. Only 1 card can
be on this card at a time. Any vampire with a capacity above 4 can
steal the Fragments (and any card on it) for his or her controller as
a (D) action.
Eyes of Argus
Reaction
Auspex
[aus] Only usable during a (D) action directed at you (or a card you
control). +2 intercept.
[AUS] Only usable by a tapped vampire. This vampire can play reaction
cards and attempt to block as though untapped until the current action
is concluded.
Fillip
Reaction
Requires a vampire. Usable by a tapped vampire.
Choose a younger tapped vampire you control. The chosen vampire can
play reaction cards and attempt to block as though untapped until the
current action is concluded. A vampire may play only one Fillip each
turn.
Forced Awakening
Reaction
Only usable by a tapped vampire.
This reacting vampire can attempt to block and play reaction cards as
though untapped. If he or she does not successfully block this action,
he or she burns an additional blood.
On the Qui Vive
Reaction
Only usable by a tapped minion. This reacting minion can play reaction
cards and attempt to block as though untapped until the current action
is concluded. If this minion is an ally, he or she does not untap as
normal during his or her next untap phase. A minion may play only one
On the Qui Vive between his or her untap phases.
Tattoo Signal
Action
[Burn Option]
+1 stealth action. Requires a Seraph.
Put this card on this acting Seraph. This ready Seraph may tap this
card to untap another Black Hand vampire. A minion may have only one
Tattoo Signal.
Helena
[obf] [pre] [tha] [AUS] [CEL][DOM]
Toreador
Capacity: 10
Group: 3
Camarilla: If Helena is tapped and ready, she can burn a blood to be
able to attempt to block and/or play reaction cards that require
Auspex as if untapped for the remainder of the action. +1 bleed.
Gracetius
[ANI] [CEL] [POT] [PRE] [QUI]
Brujah
Capacity: 10
Group: 5
Camarilla: While you have the Edge, Gracetius may play reaction cards
and attempt to block as if untapped. +1 strength.
jwnew...@bellsouth.net
> On Apr 30, 4:05 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> > Yes. Wakes are playable in the "as played" window.
>
> OK. Can you explain how players know what cards and effects are in
> the "as played" window, without the "as played" card text? As far as
> I can tell, the answer is "because LSJ defined them as such," which is
> actually an acceptable definition IMO, because LSJ is a clear
> communicator and regularly available to answer questions.
>
> I just want to know the entire list of cards that are in that window
> (without having the "as played" card text.) Or, if an explicit list
> isn't possible, then some definition I can use to deduce them for
> myself.
My understanding of the situation is that any card containing the
*explicit* text of "this vampire may play reaction cards as if..." can
be played whenever any other reaction card may be played.
Merely untapping the vampire without that specific text is
insufficient.
-witness1
LSJ
> On May 1, 10:32 pm, Ira Fay <ira...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Apr 30, 4:05 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>>> Yes. Wakes are playable in the "as played" window.
>> OK. Can you explain how players know what cards and effects are in
>> the "as played" window, without the "as played" card text?
>
> My understanding of the situation is that any card containing the
> *explicit* text of "this vampire may play reaction cards as if..." can
> be played whenever any other reaction card may be played.
Correct.
Well, "this <minion> may play reaction cards as if..." would do.
Ira Fay
OK, so just to ensure I've understood it correctly:
It is not possible to tap, untap, or burn counters or a card in play
during the "as played" window. Correct?
All of these are illegal plays:
Tap Erciyes Fragments to get a Touch of Clarity and play it
immediately.
Tap Tattoo Signal to untap, then play Touch of Clarity.
Burn Zillah's Tears to untap, then play Touch of Clarity.
Burn all the counters on a Temptation to untap, then play Touch of
Clarity.
Thanks for all the help and clarifications, LSJ - I really appreciate
it!
Ira
LSJ
> On May 3, 7:28 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>> jwnewqu...@bellsouth.net wrote:
>>> On May 1, 10:32 pm, Ira Fay <ira...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Apr 30, 4:05 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>>>>> Yes. Wakes are playable in the "as played" window.
>>>> OK. Can you explain how players know what cards and effects are in
>>>> the "as played" window, without the "as played" card text?
>>> My understanding of the situation is that any card containing the
>>> *explicit* text of "this vampire may play reaction cards as if..." can
>>> be played whenever any other reaction card may be played.
>> Correct.
>>
>> Well, "this <minion> may play reaction cards as if..." would do.
>
> OK, so just to ensure I've understood it correctly:
>
> It is not possible to tap, untap, or burn counters or a card in play
> during the "as played" window. Correct?
If there were some card that your could burn to (or that collected counters and
could burn a counter to) allow the play of reaction cards as if untapped, then
that would be usable during "as played".
> All of these are illegal plays:
> Tap Erciyes Fragments to get a Touch of Clarity and play it
> immediately.
> Tap Tattoo Signal to untap, then play Touch of Clarity.
> Burn Zillah's Tears to untap, then play Touch of Clarity.
> Burn all the counters on a Temptation to untap, then play Touch of
> Clarity.
Correct.
jwnew...@bellsouth.net
> On May 3, 7:28 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>
> > jwnewqu...@bellsouth.net wrote:
> > > On May 1, 10:32 pm, Ira Fay <ira...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> On Apr 30, 4:05 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> > >>> Yes. Wakes are playable in the "as played" window.
> > >> OK. Can you explain how players know what cards and effects are in
> > >> the "as played" window, without the "as played" card text?
>
> > > My understanding of the situation is that any card containing the
> > > *explicit* text of "this vampire may play reaction cards as if..." can
> > > be played whenever any other reaction card may be played.
>
> > Correct.
>
> > Well, "this <minion> may play reaction cards as if..." would do.
>
> OK, so just to ensure I've understood it correctly:
>
> It is not possible to tap, untap, or burn counters or a card in play
> during the "as played" window. Correct?
_No_ effect is playable in that window without text that allows it.
"<minion> may play reaction cards as if..." is considered to be text
that allows it, regardless of whether the card does or does not do any
of the things you list.
> All of these are illegal plays:
> Tap Erciyes Fragments to get a Touch of Clarity and play it
> immediately.
> Tap Tattoo Signal to untap, then play Touch of Clarity.
> Burn Zillah's Tears to untap, then play Touch of Clarity.
> Burn all the counters on a Temptation to untap, then play Touch of
> Clarity.
All correct.
-witness1