Grrrr...Subtle Functional Changes in CE
Halcyan 2
Am I the only one who's slightly annoyed that there are *several* cards that
have had some degree of functional changes (in some cases slight) but still
weren't listed in that Updated Reprints list?
For example:
Burst of Sunlight no longer limits its damage to just vampires. So if Blythe is
in combat with a Loyal Street Gang, she can play a Burst to do 2 agg to the
Gang and to herself. (Before, it would not affect non-vampires, barring cases
when Talaq or Rafastio Ghouls played it "as a vampire"). Well, at least there's
an easier way to kill Ambrosius now...
Cryptic Rider only auto passes the next referendum you successfully call *by a
vampire* this turn. Very corner-case but with the old Cryptic Rider, you could
auto-pass a vote called by the Herald of Topheth. Now you can't.
Superior Eagle's Sight now requires the vampire to attempt to block. Not too
much of a change (since you usually want to block) but it may limit cycling
attempts a bit (don't want to cycle on a 0-stealth action, etc.).
Charnas the Imp simply deals 1 damage during the untap phase (instead of
dealing 1 damage each time the vampire untapped). I like the old version better
because it held Freak Drive decks in check a bit. The only benefit is that in
the new version, the vampire can't just sit there untapped to avoid taking
damage.
Faceless Night taps the wanna-be-blockers right before resolving the action
(instead of "when the block succeeds or when that vampire's controller decides
not to block"). I actually like the new version better since it's more logical
especially with "action continues" type cards around. But it would have been
nice if White Wolf had made us aware of such a change.
Grammar/Spelling Correction: Superior Voter Captivation states "move up to 2 of
those blood counters to your pool instead of this vampire." It *should* say
"move up to 2 of those blood counters to your pool instead of <to> this
vampire."
Quick Question #1. (nothing to do with CE just something I recently noticed):
If a Methusaleh plays a card that would oust him but it is cancelled, what
happens? For example, a Methusaleh with 2 pool plays a Zoo Hunting Ground which
is then Sudden Reversal'ed. SR text indicates that the pool is retrieved which
makes one think that a time exists where the Methusaleh has 0 pool and is still
ousted. Is that correct?
#2. I've just noticed the card text to Major Boon. Major Boon is played when
the bleed is successful (so it makes one think that it is played during the
action resolution) but the text allows bleed modifiers to be played. How can
this be done if the action is already being resolved?
#3. How are events resolved with a Minor Boon (which now states that "combat
still ends, if any"). If a vampire in combat goes to torpor but is booned, can
a Psyche! or Telepathic Tracking still be played or is it a tiny bit too late?
But overall I am annoyed that there have been several subtle, functional
changes that have not been announced, and that many of us might only figure
that out at a crucial moment in the middle of a tournament! I'm sure there are
plenty of other minor changes, anyone found more?
[/Semi-Rant]
Halcyan 2
Nosferatu Stuff
"Halcyan 2" <halc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020822051616...@mb-mw.aol.com...
> [Semi-Rant]
>
> Am I the only one who's slightly annoyed that there are *several* cards
that
> have had some degree of functional changes (in some cases slight) but
still
> weren't listed in that Updated Reprints list?
No.
--
Aaron
The Nosferatu Stuff
Petri Wessman
Halcyan> [Semi-Rant] Am I the only one who's slightly annoyed that
Halcyan> there are *several* cards that have had some degree of
Halcyan> functional changes (in some cases slight) but still weren't
Halcyan> listed in that Updated Reprints list?
Well, haven't bought much CE yet (waiting for payday ;), but thanks
for the heads up on the changes. As long as everything that has
changed makes its way to the Card Text Migrations page at the WW VTES
site I'm ok with things... hopefully that will happen before the new
cards become tournament-legal.
//Petri
Xian
>
> Am I the only one who's slightly annoyed that there are *several* cards that
> have had some degree of functional changes (in some cases slight) but still
> weren't listed in that Updated Reprints list?
Not really annoyed, but a little confused.
Another examples is Dragon Breath Rounds. A little too tired to dig it out
right now, but I believe the text is changed to +2 agg each strike, and burn
this gun at the end of the combat. Neato.
Xian
LSJ
> Quick Question #1. (nothing to do with CE just something I recently noticed):
> If a Methusaleh plays a card that would oust him but it is cancelled, what
> happens? For example, a Methusaleh with 2 pool plays a Zoo Hunting Ground which
> is then Sudden Reversal'ed. SR text indicates that the pool is retrieved which
> makes one think that a time exists where the Methusaleh has 0 pool and is still
> ousted. Is that correct?
No. The SR will prevent him from being ousted.
> #2. I've just noticed the card text to Major Boon. Major Boon is played when
> the bleed is successful (so it makes one think that it is played during the
> action resolution) but the text allows bleed modifiers to be played. How can
> this be done if the action is already being resolved?
Card text. See also Form of Mist (which would allow modifiers to be played
after the action was "resolved").
> #3. How are events resolved with a Minor Boon (which now states that "combat
> still ends, if any"). If a vampire in combat goes to torpor but is booned, can
> a Psyche! or Telepathic Tracking still be played or is it a tiny bit too late?
Too late.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
LSJ
It is still "Burn the gun after strike resolution."
Xian
news:3D64DCB5...@white-wolf.com...
> Xian wrote:
[DBR]
> It is still "Burn the gun after strike resolution."
So it is. With the full text in front of me now (and a little less tired), I'm
curious...
"Ammo. Only usable before resolution of a gun's strike. That gun inflicts +2
aggravated damage **each strike** for the remainder of the combat. Burn the gun
after strike resolution. No more than 1 ammo card can be used on a gun each
combat."
(** emphasis mine, obviously)
This is the part that threw me. Are we to read the "...after strike resolution"
bit to mean "after *this* strike resolution", or "after *all* strike resolution"
this round of combat? I had always assumed it was the former, but since I
noticed the wording (which does not appear to have changed, so apparently I'm
not even as bright as a baboon today) in CE, it has led me to think it might be
the latter.
Xian
Michael Tomkins
<vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> > #3. How are events resolved with a Minor Boon (which now states that
> > "combat
> > still ends, if any"). If a vampire in combat goes to torpor but is
> > booned, can
> > a Psyche! or Telepathic Tracking still be played or is it a tiny bit
> > too late?
>
> Too late.
So a Rotschreck can be Psyched but a Minor boon cannot???
(because were the psyce successful the MB vamp would be in torpor,
certain bleed decks a plus)
--
I am a Bear of Very Michael F. Tomkins
Little Brain, and long m.tom...@student.canberra.edu.au
words bother me. University of Canberra, Australia.
- Winnie the Pooh http://student.canberra.edu.au/~u964617/
Johann
> [Semi-Rant]
>
> Am I the only one who's slightly annoyed that there are *several* cards that
> have had some degree of functional changes (in some cases slight) but still
> weren't listed in that Updated Reprints list?
>
>
Has anyone noticed in the brujah starter, Brachah now has POT CEL for
instead of PRE CEL for ??? is this a misprint? (I hope not) if not i'm
glad the brujah now have a raven template =) (jimmy dunn and brachah
yum)
johann
somewhere in Manila
Jason Liang
> But overall I am annoyed that there have been several subtle, functional
> changes that have not been announced, and that many of us might only
figure
> that out at a crucial moment in the middle of a tournament! I'm sure there
are
> plenty of other minor changes, anyone found more?
>
Trap has a new wording that is much more comprehensible. The first time I
read Trap (back during Jyhad) I was like "huh? does it do what I think it
does... or does it do the *opposite* of what I think it does?!?" Not sure if
the new one is functionally different, but it is much more precise. Of
course, I can't claim that I knew how Trap worked in the first place.
Cheers,
Jason in love with Helen(a)
> [/Semi-Rant]
>
> Halcyan 2
LSJ
It is a misprint.
Errata: Brachah has PRE and no Potence.
LSJ
>
> In article <3D64DC0A...@white-wolf.com>, LSJ
> <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>
> > > #3. How are events resolved with a Minor Boon (which now states that
> > > "combat
> > > still ends, if any"). If a vampire in combat goes to torpor but is
> > > booned, can
> > > a Psyche! or Telepathic Tracking still be played or is it a tiny bit
> > > too late?
> >
> > Too late.
>
> So a Rotschreck can be Psyched but a Minor boon cannot???
> (because were the psyce successful the MB vamp would be in torpor,
> certain bleed decks a plus)
Correct.
When Rotschreck ends combat, both combatants are still ready.
When Minor Boon ends combat, the target is not ready.
See also Left for Dead.
salem
> changes that have not been announced, and that many of us might only figure
> that out at a crucial moment in the middle of a tournament! I'm sure there are
> plenty of other minor changes, anyone found more?
i have!
old Absolution of the Diabolist text:
Absolution of the Diabolist [AH]
Master: out-of-turn.
Requires a <ready> justicar or Inner Circle member. This card is
playable during your minion phase. Only usable when a Blood Hunt <()>
has been called on a vampire. Cancel that Blood Hunt.
(as clipped from the WW page)
new absolution of the diabolist text:
Absolution of the Diabolist
master: out-of-turn
requires a ready justicar or inner circle member. this card is
playable during your minion phase. only usable when a vampire is about
to be burned by a blood hunt. cancel that bloodhunt.
so, with the new version, they have to be buring from the bloodhunt
for you to play it. before, you could play it even if they weren't
burning, making it a lot more cyclable (even though it would cost you
a pool).
do i win a cookie?
salem.
Flux
Yes, but...
With control of a Justicar/Inner Circle, you can vote _for_ the Blood
Hunt and therefore ensure your vampire is going to burn from the Blood
Hunt, so you can almost always play the AotD anyway, if you really want
to. :)
Flux
jspektr
*bump*
LSJ: I'd like an answer to this as well. How can it be "each strike"
and also burn after strike resolution, which is separate for each
strike?
JSpektr
salem
*brain hurting* but....if...but if you could control the results of
the bloodhunt just with your j/IC, why are you playing with absolution
of the diabolist?
i guess maybe if everyone else wants you to burn, and then you throw
your votes on top..hmmm....
i still think the best use of this card is for telling other people
"please, diablerise that vampire! i hate it! (probably amelia after
the quote on Bounty). if you do diablerise i can play absolution to
keep your vamp alive!"
or something. or maybe you should just play with tariq, etc.
oh wait...the topic....umm....the point is it's still a subtle
functional change. grrr.
O:)
salem.
"Gir! Unleash the monkey!"
(at least that's how i interpreted the line from the Zim episode...)
salem
>
> *bump*
>
> LSJ: I'd like an answer to this as well. How can it be "each strike"
> and also burn after strike resolution, which is separate for each
> strike?
each strike that it's around to be used for. which is usually one.
see White Phosphorus Grenade, which has the same "each strike" thingy.
salem.
"can i be a mongoose dog?"
LSJ
Right. If you only ever get one strike off, the weapon still did
whatever it does "each strike" for that one strike.
Joshua Duffin
salem wrote:
>
> halc...@aol.com (Halcyan 2) wrote
> >plenty of other minor changes, anyone found more?
>
>
> i have!
> old Absolution of the Diabolist text:
>
> Absolution of the Diabolist [AH]
> Master: out-of-turn.
> Requires a <ready> justicar or Inner Circle member. This card is
> playable during your minion phase. Only usable when a Blood Hunt <()>
> has been called on a vampire. Cancel that Blood Hunt.
>
> (as clipped from the WW page)
>
>
> new absolution of the diabolist text:
>
> Absolution of the Diabolist
> master: out-of-turn
> requires a ready justicar or inner circle member. this card is
> playable during your minion phase. only usable when a vampire is about
> to be burned by a blood hunt. cancel that bloodhunt.
>
> so, with the new version, they have to be buring from the bloodhunt
> for you to play it. before, you could play it even if they weren't
> burning, making it a lot more cyclable (even though it would cost you
> a pool).
>
> do i win a cookie?
This actually may not have been seen as a functional change.
If you're used to the old-school "blood hunt" terminology, you might
never have noticed, but in the recent rulebooks, a "blood hunt"
being called is described as meaning that the post-diablerie
referendum (on whether to burn the diablerist) has *passed* (and
the diablerist is therefore burning).
"When a vampire commits diablerie, any Methuselah may call for
a referendum to see if a blood hunt will be called on the
diablerist. If the referendum passes, a blood hunt is called,
and the diablerist is burned." [6.5.6 in the current rulebook,
and at least as far back as the Final Nights one, very possibly
Sabbat War]
Under that terminology, Absolution of the Diabolist was *already*
only playable when the blood hunt was "happening" (ie the vote
to burn had passed).
Although when Absolution of the Diabolist was first printed, I
think this wording of the blood hunt referendum didn't exist yet
and so it *was* playable any time during the referendum. I
think.
Josh
therefore i yam
Halcyan 2
>the bloodhunt just with your j/IC, why are you playing with absolution
>of the diabolist?
>i guess maybe if everyone else wants you to burn, and then you throw
>your votes on top..hmmm....
>i still think the best use of this card is for telling other people
>"please, diablerise that vampire! i hate it! (probably amelia after
>the quote on Bounty). if you do diablerise i can play absolution to
>keep your vamp alive!"
>
>or something. or maybe you should just play with tariq, etc.
Here's the situation. You have vote lock and an Absolution of the Diabolist in
your hand and you would REALLY like to cycle.
In the old days, you'd be able to diablerize with impunity (since you have vote
lock anyway) and then play Absolution.
Because the new version requires the diabolist to be about to be burned: when
you diablerize, you need to use your vote power to try to burn your own vamp
(so you can play the Absolution). This also means a single Sudden Reversal will
cause you to lose your diablerizing vampire whereas before, you didn't need to
take such a risk.
Halcyan 2