Shadow Court Satyr with Heaven's Gate Question
Rehlow
discipline requiring cards from LoB and their interactions with allies
playing them. While not a lingering effect, it looks like a Shadow
Court Satyr could get some mileage out of Heaven's Gate. Please let me
know if any of my below assumptions are incorrect.
A Gangrel Antitribu recruits a Shadow Court Satyr successfully and I
choose to put a Heaven's Gate from hand on the SCS (its a combat card,
so all should be fine here).
Now SCS says "... once during combat, Satyr may use the ability of that
card ..." but does not say it has to be a combat he is involved in, so
I can use Heaven's Gate if the SCS is ready, untapped and not involved
in the combat (requirements of Heaven's Gate) to save a different ally,
correct?
If that other combat involved a different SCS I controlled and it was
burned, but I used the [obe] effect of Heaven's Gate on to prevent the
burning, that SCS never left play, so it is also not coming into play,
so I do not choose a combat card to put on the saved SCS, correct?
If a SCS burns his last life to pay for Heaven's Gate, the Heaven's
Gate effect is cancelled because the SCS becomes an ally with no life
and burns, interrupting the effect, correct?
I was going to have some more questions about whether an ally saved by
Heaven's Gate could take an action they already took this turn because
their memory was wiped by being burned or could not because of the
instead of burning on Heaven's Gate, but Heaven's Gate puts the ally in
the uncontrolled region, so it doesn't matter.
Thanks.
Shadow Court Satyr (Changeling)
Changeling with 3 life. 1 strength, 1 bleed.
When Shadow Court Satyr comes into play, you may
put a combat card from your hand on him. Once during
combat, Satyr may use the ability of that card as if that
card had been played from your hand. If the card has a
cost, he pays its cost in life to use its ability. If the card
requires a Discipline, he may only use the basic ability
of that card as a vampire with a capacity of 1. If the
ability would give him blood, give him life instead.
Heaven`s Gate, Combat, 1 blood, Obeah/Necromancy
Only usable by a ready untapped vampire not involved in combat.
[nec] prevent 1 damage to an ally in combat.
[obe] Only usable when an ally is burned in combat. Move that ally to
his or her controller`s uncontrolled region (controlled, but not ready)
instead. Put 1 life on the ally from the blood bank if he or she has no
life.
[OBE] As [obe] above, but add up to 2 life to the ally, not to exceed
his or her starting amount.
Later,
~Rehlow
LSJ
> All this lingering effects talk got me thinking about the new
> discipline requiring cards from LoB and their interactions with allies
> playing them. While not a lingering effect, it looks like a Shadow
> Court Satyr could get some mileage out of Heaven's Gate. Please let me
> know if any of my below assumptions are incorrect.
>
> A Gangrel Antitribu recruits a Shadow Court Satyr successfully and I
> choose to put a Heaven's Gate from hand on the SCS (its a combat card,
> so all should be fine here).
Yep.
> Now SCS says "... once during combat, Satyr may use the ability of that
> card ..." but does not say it has to be a combat he is involved in, so
> I can use Heaven's Gate if the SCS is ready, untapped and not involved
> in the combat (requirements of Heaven's Gate) to save a different ally,
> correct?
No. He has to be in combat. That's the "during combat" part.
> If that other combat involved a different SCS I controlled and it was
> burned, but I used the [obe] effect of Heaven's Gate on to prevent the
> burning, that SCS never left play, so it is also not coming into play,
> so I do not choose a combat card to put on the saved SCS, correct?
Correct.
> If a SCS burns his last life to pay for Heaven's Gate, the Heaven's
> Gate effect is cancelled because the SCS becomes an ally with no life
> and burns, interrupting the effect, correct?
Moot, but no. The effect is paid for, so it would have gone off (if it
were legal).
Joshua Duffin
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
news:1146599891.5...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Rehlow wrote:
>> All this lingering effects talk got me thinking about the new
>> discipline requiring cards from LoB and their interactions with allies
>> playing them. While not a lingering effect, it looks like a Shadow
>> Court Satyr could get some mileage out of Heaven's Gate. Please let me
>> know if any of my below assumptions are incorrect.
>>
>> A Gangrel Antitribu recruits a Shadow Court Satyr successfully and I
>> choose to put a Heaven's Gate from hand on the SCS (its a combat card,
>> so all should be fine here).
>
> Yep.
>
>> Now SCS says "... once during combat, Satyr may use the ability of that
>> card ..." but does not say it has to be a combat he is involved in, so
>> I can use Heaven's Gate if the SCS is ready, untapped and not involved
>> in the combat (requirements of Heaven's Gate) to save a different ally,
>> correct?
>
> No. He has to be in combat. That's the "during combat" part.
Matt has actually misquoted Shadow Court Satyr, I think. Text from the
online file:
"When Shadow Court Satyr comes into play, you may put a combat card from
your hand on him. Once each combat, Satyr may use the ability of that card
as if that card had been played from your hand."
His card text doesn't say "once each combat he's involved in". I would
think the text of Heaven's Gate would override that usual rule for him as
much as it does for vampires with Obeah or Necromancy who are not in combat
but want to play Heaven's Gate.
Josh
you'd think the gates of hell would be more relevant
LSJ
> "When Shadow Court Satyr comes into play, you may put a combat card from
> your hand on him. Once each combat, Satyr may use the ability of that card
> as if that card had been played from your hand."
>
> His card text doesn't say "once each combat he's involved in".
Nor does it need to.
Just like "Prevent 1 damage" doesn't say "done to this minion".
Joshua Duffin
That's not the same. By default, combat effects like "prevent 1 damage" can
only be played by - and only affect - the minion in combat. But card text
can override this, and in the case of Heaven's Gate, does. I can't see any
compelling reason, under his current card-text, to limit Shadow Court Satyr
in this way. Certainly Alia, God's Messenger, ought to be able to play
Heaven's Gate, right?
Reanimated Corpse should be able to play Shared Strength, too, given its
wording: "The corpse can play combat cards that require basic Fortitude
[for] as a vampire." None of these abilities have additional restrictions
written into them, so they should behave just as vampires do in these
situations: they can normally only play combat cards in their own combats,
unless the combat card has text saying otherwise.
Josh
shadow court tennis player
davey
On Wed, 3 May 2006, at 1:07pm, Joshua Duffin wrote:
> "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
> news:1146668903.0...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> > Joshua Duffin wrote:
> > > "When Shadow Court Satyr comes into play, you may put a combat card
> > > from your hand on him. Once each combat, Satyr may use the ability
> > > of that card as if that card had been played from your hand."
> > >
> > > His card text doesn't say "once each combat he's involved in".
> >
> > Nor does it need to.
> > Just like "Prevent 1 damage" doesn't say "done to this minion".
>
> That's not the same. By default, combat effects like "prevent 1 damage"
> can only be played by - and only affect - the minion in combat.
By default (or by extensive precedent,) "each combat" means "each combat
this minion is involved in." When a card wishes to mean otherwise, it's
pretty explicit.
> But card text can override this, and in the case of Heaven's Gate, does.
Right -- Heaven's Gate has text to say when it can be played, BUT Shadow
Court Satyr doesn't care, because (for one thing) he doesn't actually play
the card. He uses the ability of the card as if it had been played from
your hand. Regardless of when the card could be played, SCS can only use
the card's ability "once each combat" -- meaning once each combat he's
invovled in.
> I can't see any compelling reason, under his current card-text, to limit
> Shadow Court Satyr in this way.
See above -- it comes right from the wording, when you factor in that
"once each combat" always requires the minion's involvement. If it didn't
say "once each combat," then I'd say it would work.
> Certainly Alia, God's Messenger, ought to be able to play Heaven's Gate,
> right?
Yes, the limitation has nothing to do with SCS's status as an ally.
> Reanimated Corpse should be able to play Shared Strength, too, given its
> wording: "The corpse can play combat cards that require basic Fortitude
> [for] as a vampire."
Yup, that works.
> None of these abilities have additional restrictions written into them,
> so they should behave just as vampires do in these situations: they can
> normally only play combat cards in their own combats, unless the combat
> card has text saying otherwise.
Right, except that the Satyr DOES have an additional restriction -- "once
each combat."
I thought it was a good deck idea, too.
lod-aut
Heaven`s Gate, Combat, 1 blood, Obeah/Necromancy
combat.
Does SCS be able to use the <b>ability</b> not the <b>card</b> the fact
that he is no vampire?
In another thread it has been stated he cannot use "Diversion" as it
requires an Anarch So why shall he be able to use the ability of
Heaven's Gate that requires a vampire - he is an ally.
Diversion
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Celerity/Fortitude/Thaumaturgy
<b>Requires a ready anarch.</b>
[cel] Gain one additional strike.
[for] Prevent up to 2 damage.
[tha] Strike: ranged. Steal 1 blood with an optional maneuver.
Salem
> I am bit confused - Heaven's Gate says:
> Heaven`s Gate, Combat, 1 blood, Obeah/Necromancy
> Only <b>usable</b> by a ready untapped <b>vampire</b> not involved in
> combat.
>
> Does SCS be able to use the <b>ability</b> not the <b>card</b> the fact
> that he is no vampire?
>
> In another thread it has been stated he cannot use "Diversion" as it
> requires an Anarch So why shall he be able to use the ability of
> Heaven's Gate that requires a vampire - he is an ally.
I'm going to take a stab at this and guess it's because of.....card text!
From Shadow Court Satyr's text:
" If the card requires a Discipline, he may only use the basic ability
of that card as a vampire with a capacity of 1. "
--
salem
http://users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/vtes/
(replace 'hotmail' with 'yahoo' to email)
LSJ
> I am bit confused - Heaven's Gate says:
> Heaven`s Gate, Combat, 1 blood, Obeah/Necromancy
> Only <b>usable</b> by a ready untapped <b>vampire</b> not involved in
> combat.
For USENET, use asterisks for bold. e.g.:
Only *usable* by a ready untapped *vampire* not involved in combat.
> Does SCS be able to use the <b>ability</b> not the <b>card</b> the fact
> that he is no vampire?
SCS can, once per combat he's in, use the ability of the card as if he
were a vampire.
> In another thread it has been stated he cannot use "Diversion" as it
> requires an Anarch So why shall he be able to use the ability of
> Heaven's Gate that requires a vampire - he is an ally.
Card text: "If the card requires a Discipline, he may only use the
basic ability of that card as a *vampire* with a capacity of 1."
Joshua Duffin
> lod-aut wrote:
>> Does SCS be able to use the <b>ability</b> not the <b>card</b> the fact
>> that he is no vampire?
>
> SCS can, once per combat he's in, use the ability of the card as if he
> were a vampire.
>
>> In another thread it has been stated he cannot use "Diversion" as it
>> requires an Anarch So why shall he be able to use the ability of
>> Heaven's Gate that requires a vampire - he is an ally.
>
> Card text: "If the card requires a Discipline, he may only use the
> basic ability of that card as a *vampire* with a capacity of 1."
Just in case anyone was starting to get the wrong idea, Shadow Court Satyr
*cannot* use the ability of the card Heaven's Gate, because he can only use
combat cards while he is himself involved in the combat. As recently
clarified.
He can use most other discipline-requiring combat cards, though, even if
they mention requiring vampires.
Josh
has no ability