Some Final Nights Questions
Marc Gabriele
1) Malleable Visage: Does playing Malleable Visage resolve the action as
blocked? If so, can Malleable Visage be played before Millicent Smith
activates? If so, which minion is affected, the original actor, or the one
playing Malleable Visage? Also, is there "time" to play further action
modifiers or reaction cards after Malleable Visage is played?
2) Puppeteer: Is there an effective way to use this card if you don't have
Shroud Mastery? The only options I could come up with are using OBF for
Cloak or Psychic Veil, or waiting until the target Meth. was tapped out,
grabbing someone, and Heidelburging everything away from it. Both of these
seem rather chancy, so I was wondering if anyone had some better ideas?
Marc Gabriele
LSJ
>
>1) Malleable Visage: Does playing Malleable Visage resolve the action as
>blocked? If so, can Malleable Visage be played before Millicent Smith
The action is blocked before Malleable Visage can be played.
>activates? If so, which minion is affected, the original actor, or the one
No.
>playing Malleable Visage? Also, is there "time" to play further action
The original actor, if he's a vampire, is burned by Millicent before
MV can be played.
>modifiers or reaction cards after Malleable Visage is played?
Obedience, etc. sure. Just like between Pshyce! combats.
[LSJ 19991025]
>2) Puppeteer: Is there an effective way to use this card if you don't have
>Shroud Mastery? The only options I could come up with are using OBF for
>Cloak or Psychic Veil, or waiting until the target Meth. was tapped out,
>grabbing someone, and Heidelburging everything away from it. Both of these
>seem rather chancy, so I was wondering if anyone had some better ideas?
Mask1K, Memories of Mortality.
Or just use it as block-bait (with dodge as appropriate).
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Marc Gabriele
> The action is blocked before Malleable Visage can be played.
>
So, just to make sure I understand, I can respond to a Dawn
Operation (superior) with a Malleable Visage, but not the other way
around.
> >modifiers or reaction cards after Malleable Visage is played?
>
> Obedience, etc. sure. Just like between Pshyce! combats.
> [LSJ 19991025]
>
Basically, any card that can be played "before combat begins",
right?
> >2) Puppeteer: Is there an effective way to use this card if you don't have
> >Shroud Mastery? The only options I could come up with are using OBF for
> >Cloak or Psychic Veil, or waiting until the target Meth. was tapped out,
> >grabbing someone, and Heidelburging everything away from it. Both of these
> >seem rather chancy, so I was wondering if anyone had some better ideas?
>
> Mask1K, Memories of Mortality.
Well, Mask isn't helpful since I can't Mask the stealing action
(as no other minion could perform it.)
> Or just use it as block-bait (with dodge as appropriate).
>
Hrm. Not a bad plan, but it just seems like a waste of potential.
I suppose there's always obf/ser/nec to try, though.
Marc Gabriele
LSJ
>On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, LSJ wrote:
>
>> The action is blocked before Malleable Visage can be played.
>>
> So, just to make sure I understand, I can respond to a Dawn
>Operation (superior) with a Malleable Visage, but not the other way
>around.
Dawn Op is played before the block (is successful), yes.
>> >modifiers or reaction cards after Malleable Visage is played?
>>
>> Obedience, etc. sure. Just like between Pshyce! combats.
>> [LSJ 19991025]
>>
> Basically, any card that can be played "before combat begins",
>right?
Right.
>> >2) Puppeteer: Is there an effective way to use this card if you don't have
>> >Shroud Mastery? The only options I could come up with are using OBF for
>> >Cloak or Psychic Veil, or waiting until the target Meth. was tapped out,
>> >grabbing someone, and Heidelburging everything away from it. Both of these
>> >seem rather chancy, so I was wondering if anyone had some better ideas?
>>
>> Mask1K, Memories of Mortality.
>
> Well, Mask isn't helpful since I can't Mask the stealing action
>(as no other minion could perform it.)
Right, sorry. That should have been "Malleable Visage".
Pat Ricochet
>>>> Shroud Mastery? The only options I could come up with are using OBF for
>>>> Cloak or Psychic Veil, or waiting until the target Meth. was tapped out,
>>>> grabbing someone, and Heidelburging everything away from it. Both of these
>>>> seem rather chancy, so I was wondering if anyone had some better ideas?
>>>
>>> Mask1K, Memories of Mortality.
>>
>> Well, Mask isn't helpful since I can't Mask the stealing action
>> (as no other minion could perform it.)
>
> Right, sorry. That should have been "Malleable Visage".
Which isn't as silly as it sounds, since both Andrea and Silvia Giovanni
have [vic]. Amusingly, they can also make Lobotomized Hordes or Puppeteers.
Maybe a Tzi/Giov WarGhoul/Hordes deck? Hmmm...
I mentioned this in the newsletter in passing, but one great thing to do
with the Puppeteer is *block*. It costs 1 pool to get, and can block a
bleed of 2 or more. It's also an ally, so it can block Daring the Dawn
actions, you can't Draw out its Beast, etc. It's not too odd to toss a few
Fake Outs into a Giovanni deck, especially since they're *still* the *only*
clan with no access via in-clan disciplines to a maneuver. (Excepting
Thrown Gate, but that commits them to a specific strike; pretty lousy for
maneuvering back to close for the Grapple.)
Anyway, I've gotten Leonardo, who also costs 1 pool, many a time for
just blocking. (Of course, his special ability is the bomb, too.) And, as
said before, you can go "attempt to take control" of a weenie just to get
them to tap out that last blocker. If your prey has no Wakes or untaps,
they might need to leave an *extra* blocker just to block the Puppeteer
action.
And then there's always the goofy Force of Will combo, of course. =)
--
Pat Ricochet
Soul Jar'rn Fool of Atlanta
kuquami
> with the Puppeteer is *block*. It costs 1 pool to get, and can block a
> bleed of 2 or more.
If you need a cheap blocker, Jake Washington is much better. Sure, he
costs a master phase action, but he doesn't need pool or actions to
come in play. Which is critical when you want an extra blocker. And he
can fake out too :)
I guess the Setites can make better use of the Puppeteer than the
Giovannis...
> It's also an ally, so it can block Daring the Dawn
> actions, you can't Draw out its Beast, etc. It's not too odd to toss a few
> Fake Outs into a Giovanni deck, especially since they're *still* the *only*
> clan with no access via in-clan disciplines to a maneuver. (Excepting
> Thrown Gate, but that commits them to a specific strike; pretty lousy for
> maneuvering back to close for the Grapple.)
> Anyway, I've gotten Leonardo, who also costs 1 pool, many a time for
> just blocking. (Of course, his special ability is the bomb, too.) And, as
> said before, you can go "attempt to take control" of a weenie just to get
> them to tap out that last blocker. If your prey has no Wakes or untaps,
> they might need to leave an *extra* blocker just to block the Puppeteer
> action.
>
> And then there's always the goofy Force of Will combo, of course. =)
The best Puppeteer use for the Giovannis =)
Pat Ricochet
>> I mentioned this in the newsletter in passing, but one great thing to do
>> with the Puppeteer is *block*. It costs 1 pool to get, and can block a
>> bleed of 2 or more.
>
> If you need a cheap blocker, Jake Washington is much better.
Well, Leonardo is much better than the Puppeteer, but you can have only
one Leonardo. Having both might be nice (2 blockers in one turn. =) And,
most importantly, you can drop Jake Washington on your first turn, with no
vampires out. Jake is THE MAN to make Ex Nihilo go. Burn the Ex Nihilo
with the vamp at 0 blood, burn Jake to put them at 4 blood, and then Summon
Soul for 2 more blood. (Or, if you're Isabel, just Ex Nihilo on the spot,
and resume bleeding with Scouting Mission and Bonding/Threats/Foreshadowing.
=)
Hm. Think I need to trade for more Jakes!
> Sure, he
> costs a master phase action,
Well, as I've ranted on before, that isn't trivial to me. Anything
effect I can get with an action instead of an MPA I consider to be MUCH
"cheaper." Much of that is opportunity cost; it's much easier to cycle
actions than masters.
> but he doesn't need pool or actions to
> come in play. Which is critical when you want an extra blocker. And he
> can fake out too :)
> I guess the Setites can make better use of the Puppeteer than the
> Giovannis...
Final Nights really makes me want to go and make decks around Dedefra.
=)
>> And then there's always the goofy Force of Will combo, of course. =)
>
> The best Puppeteer use for the Giovannis =)
Well, the most effective and evil, certainly. The huge amount of
"moving parts" makes it maybe not the "best." I still think the "best" use
is as a cheap blocker, but that's my personal experience (Leonardo has
blocked or thwarted quite a number of actions in my time but I hate having
to leave him untapped.)
The Fanboy
> Shroud Mastery? The only options I could come up with are using OBF for
> Cloak or Psychic Veil, or waiting until the target Meth. was tapped out,
> grabbing someone, and Heidelburging everything away from it. Both of these
> seem rather chancy, so I was wondering if anyone had some better ideas?
He works rather well in Setite decks (and there are three Setites and
a Setite ally with necromancy). Cloak if you need the stealth.
Fanboy