Need decklists for: DOC trophy deck
Martin Tibor Major
I've just read in a thread before that somebody played a DOC trophy
deck. That caught my attention. Please share your decklist with me if
you are willing to (and have a deck like that).
Thank you in advance!
by: Mephistopheles
Mirumo
wrote:
I can't provide you exact deck list, but from what I remember crypt
includes:
5x Scout Youngwood
3x Hillanvale
2x Harlan Graves
2x Janet Langer
Library:
Few copy of red list and a lot of Shattering Crescendo (between 10-12
I believe)
1x Trophy Hunting Ground
1x Trophy Revered
1x Trophy Diablerie
6x Trophy Progeny
6x Ashur Tablets
2x Parthenon
2x Conductor
1x Paris Opera House
1x Bastille Opera House
bunch of stelf cards (Forgoten, Lost, Elder impersonation, Veil the
legion, Faceless)
a few copy of Freak Drives
bunch of Consagineaus boon
Some KRC/Lily Prelude
1x Concert Tour
1x Narrow Minds
Some cards may be different but i think you should get the Idea.
Martin Tibor Major
Thanks a lot!
Chaitan
How does it activate the trophies by burning a vampire through
diablerie (without burning from blood hunt) or as a (D) action?
Sacrificial Lamb? White Nights Massacre? Lay Low?
_angst_
Diablerie with 1x Trophy Diablerie. Thus the problem with Carlton.
//Alex
Izaak
>Diablerie with 1x Trophy Diablerie. Thus the problem with Carlton.
Allies should actually enter play (fron the uncontrolled region) at the end
of your turn instead of just being there "as a reminder they can't act this
turn".
Blooded Sand
I would be totally happy with this. it gives you the opportunity of
one turn to rush carlton. swinging it a small bit back to combat decks
that are currently at most tier 1.8 ;)
Izaak
>one turn to rush carlton. swinging it a small bit back to combat decks
>that are currently at most tier 1.8 ;)
Not to mention the fact that Carlton can only use his special on vampires
that commited diablerie since his controller's last turn. Ie, vampires that
committed diablerie while Carlton was ACTUALLY ON THE TABLE.
Janne Hägglund
Seems a bit overkill to use a *rules* change to fix something that can be
fixed by changing the text of a *single* *card*...
Just change this:
"Carlton can strike for 1R damage, and he may dodge as a strike once each
combat. Carlton has +1 intercept when blocking vampires. During your
*discard* phase, you may burn Carlton to burn a vampire who has committed
diablerie since your last turn."
Into this:
"Carlton can strike for 1R damage, and he may dodge as a strike once each
combat. Carlton has +1 intercept when blocking vampires. During your
*untap* phase, you may burn Carlton to burn a vampire who has committed
diablerie since your last turn."
No need to use a shotgun when a fly swatter will do.
HG
Blooded Sand
thats good too, in fact better
_angst_
Or just not change something that clearly isn't broken to begin with ;)
Blooded Sand
a single card negates an entire deck archetype. is that not a wee bit
overpowered?
_angst_
Well, if you choose diablerie over killing Caiphas you will have to
take the risk of getting bolted with Carlton. It doesn't negate the
archetype (is trophies really an archetype, it just seems like worse
versions of regular decks) it just makes an approach to the archetype
harder to pull off.
Izaak
> fixed by changing the text of a *single* *card*...
Well, maybe...
It always struck me as rather odd that allies have some sort of imposed
"summoning sickness" that is handled by an unneccesary trip to the
uncontrolled region. SURELY there must be some clever thought behind it that
I have always failed to see, because if the intention would have been
exactly the situation we have now, the rules would have been a million times
clearer if they just said "allies cannot perform any actions they turn they
enter play" instead of the goofy thing we have now with the "as a reminder
bla bla".
As an aside, Carlton being able to use his special (or Vagabond Mystic and
Warghouls for that matter) the turn they are recruited is rather odd in the
grand scheme of things.
> Just change this:
>
> "Carlton can strike for 1R damage, and he may dodge as a strike once each
> combat. Carlton has +1 intercept when blocking vampires. During your
> *discard* phase, you may burn Carlton to burn a vampire who has
> committed
> diablerie since your last turn."
>
> Into this:
>
> "Carlton can strike for 1R damage, and he may dodge as a strike once each
> combat. Carlton has +1 intercept when blocking vampires. During your
> *untap* phase, you may burn Carlton to burn a vampire who has committed
> diablerie since your last turn."
>
>
> No need to use a shotgun when a fly swatter will do.
Well, normally I'd agree, but in this case I'd rather see rules become more
intuitive instead of errata'ing a specific card.
I know someone will come it with some argument that the rules are fine and
working etc, but this whole thing of allies passing through the uncontrolled
region, while actually being controlled (and ready!) just "as a reminder
they cannot act" but they can actually use special abilities is FAR from
intuitive.
Janne Hägglund
Wrong.
See:
- I diablerize someone with my Big Star.
- My turn ends
- Someone else, let's say my prey, takes a turn and brings out the Carlton
they've been saving for this occasion.
- My Big Star has committed diablerie since their last turn, which means...
- Bye-bye, Big Star of mine.
HG
Izaak
""Janne Hägglund"" <h...@iki.fi> schreef in bericht
news:m3r5hbp...@nothung.homelinux.net...
> "Izaak" <nom...@usenet.plz> writes:
>
>> >I would be totally happy with this. it gives you the opportunity of
>> >one turn to rush carlton. swinging it a small bit back to combat decks
>> >that are currently at most tier 1.8 ;)
>>
>> Not to mention the fact that Carlton can only use his special on vampires
>> that commited diablerie since his controller's last turn. Ie, vampires
>> that
>> committed diablerie while Carlton was ACTUALLY ON THE TABLE.
>
>
> Wrong.
Um... right.
If you'd read all the posts in this particular part of the thread you'd see
that I'm responding to one of the effects that would occur if my proposed
change would go along.
Paraphrased
Me: "Allies should come into play at end of turn"
Blooded Sand: "Ye good idea, so you get a shot at rushing him first!"
Me: "Well actually, then he wouldn't be able to use his special unless the
diab was comitted while he was on the table"
Janne: "Wrong".
No?
> See:
>
> - I diablerize someone with my Big Star.
> - My turn ends
> - Someone else, let's say my prey, takes a turn and brings out the Carlton
> they've been saving for this occasion.
> - My Big Star has committed diablerie since their last turn, which
> means...
> - Bye-bye, Big Star of mine.
>
Yes, I know exactly how it works, thank you. I'm the one here proposing
changes because it's a stupid mechanic.
Janne Hägglund
> ""Janne Hägglund"" <h...@iki.fi> schreef in bericht
> news:m3r5hbp...@nothung.homelinux.net...
> > "Izaak" <nom...@usenet.plz> writes:
> >
> >> >I would be totally happy with this. it gives you the opportunity of
> >> >one turn to rush carlton. swinging it a small bit back to combat decks
> >> >that are currently at most tier 1.8 ;)
> >>
> >> Not to mention the fact that Carlton can only use his special on vampires
> >> that commited diablerie since his controller's last turn. Ie, vampires
> >> that
> >> committed diablerie while Carlton was ACTUALLY ON THE TABLE.
> >
> >
> > Wrong.
>
> Um... right.
>
> If you'd read all the posts in this particular part of the thread you'd see
> that I'm responding to one of the effects that would occur if my proposed
> change would go along.
Yes, you're right. I thought I was responding to a conversation about how
Carlton actually works now. I guess it was because you wrote "Carlton can"
instead of "Carlton could".
(Now *please* could everyone just quote enough of the conversation in their
replies, so that the context of the conversation is preserved...?)
HG
Juggernaut1981
> changes because it's a stupid mechanic.
+1 to this.
I've always thought that this interpretation of Carlton's Text is out
of whack. Then again IANLSJ...
James Coupe
<snip - changes to ally recruitment that would nerf Carlton somewhat>
>Paraphrased
>
>Me: "Allies should come into play at end of turn"
>Blooded Sand: "Ye good idea, so you get a shot at rushing him first!"
>Me: "Well actually, then he wouldn't be able to use his special unless the
>diab was comitted while he was on the table"
>Janne: "Wrong".
For completeness, it should probably be mentioned that out-of-turn
recruitment (Enkil Cog, Madness Network) would allow you to recruit
Carlton after the diablerie and then to use it on your turn.
e.g.
I commit diablerie with Evil Jensen on my turn.
You (my prey) recruit Carlton on my turn using Madness Network.
Carlton comes into play at the end of my turn.
You burn Carlton during your discard phase.
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
Martin Tibor Major
If you are so afraid to loose your big star than play some DI's and
save them for something that could kill your star. Problem solved.
Blooded Sand
wrote:
Funnily enough, the same argument against PTO was "Use some DI's.
duh."
strange isn't it?
Martin Major
It was a damn good argument. Every deck type has its own big weakness
or counter-card. This is the way a card game works. I think it is
necessary that certain cards can stop something. This is also the
reason why DI, Dark Influence and Delaying Tactics do exist.
James Coupe
>On szept. 3, 11:24, Blooded Sand <sandm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 3, 10:54 am, Martin Tibor Major <major.martin.ti...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > If you are so afraid to loose your big star than play some DI's and
>> > save them for something that could kill your star. Problem solved.
>>
>> Funnily enough, the same argument against PTO was "Use some DI's.
>> duh."
>> strange isn't it?
>
>It was a damn good argument.
No, it's not. It obfuscates the real issue.
At a very basic level, game design regarding DI (and DI2) breaks down
into two possible beliefs.
1) No card in the game is ever a problem, because you can DI it.
2) A card in the game might be a problem, even though you can DI it.
Problem is quite a vague term, intentionally so. The card might help
you win too easily. The card might make me lose by completely screwing
me over, but doesn't directly make you win. The card might be
disruptive to the game in some way.
Now, 1) is a perfectly valid point of view. It's not one I agree with,
but it's something that someone could reasonably believe. However, it's
pretty much not one that V:TES subscribes to. RtoI, if not PTO, is
better off banned. And V:TES has pretty much always tried to create
balanced cards that are well-costed with appropriate requirements, while
not being toothless.
Shouting "You can DI it!" at every potential problem card therefore
means that you're not examining whether it has actually reached the
threshold for 2). Return to Innocence was, rightly in my view, banned.
It caused a massive, massive shift of pool in one go, with too few
defences - even in the rewritten version. Stamping your foot and saying
"You can DI it!" misses the point that when you *can't* DI it - a bad
shuffle, for example - it's too powerful and too disruptive. And so a
small number of cards, relative to the whole, are changed or banned - if
they reach a high enough threshold.
"You can DI it!" is not a magic totem that prevents every minion card
from being a problem.
Further, on a game design level, you don't - in general - want decks to
have to start fearing cards so much that it needs to pack 5 DI, 5 Wash,
5 Not To Be/Uncoiling, and so on. Two reasons: 1) It restricts deck
design generally. 2) Garfield didn't want V:TES to have necessary land
cards.
>Every deck type has its own big weakness
>or counter-card. This is the way a card game works.
"You can DI it!" isn't the way V:TES works for assessing problems,
however.
Martin Major
Agreed. What I actually wanted to say is that I think it is good that
decks face problems (cards) that they can't solve (with cards)! Like
Carlton in the above example. Or like No Secrets kills a tap and
bleed. This is great, because this will lead to the conclusion that
you have to face such problems in another way: like table talk, littel
deals long term planing or whatever.
Abdul alHazred
>
> - Visa citerad text -
Something thats slightly annoying imho is that Carlton is a card that
turns up at most tables since he is so fantastic even without the burn
a diablerist"-effect and he has no pre-requisit as opposed to No
secrets. Carlton is basically an ally who is too good since even if
the deck doesnt really benefit from him he may very well be in the
deck with his "+1 intercept dodge"- block and as a sidenote he
destroys an entire type of deck. More even he makes an entire sets
mechanic (KMW) alot harder to use. Whereas No secrets gets hosed by
among others pentex which is also a card that you arent suprised to
see in a tournament-deck.
cheers
Tomas