LSJ- blood weakens

[Reyda]

just to be sure the card works this way...

Blood Weakens
Gehenna. Do not replace until a vampire commits diablerie.
Cards that require any Disciplines to play are not replaced until the
end of the currrent action or until any Methuselah's hand is empty
(whichever comes first). Any vampire who commits diablerie is immune
to this effect until the next Gehenna card is played.

-about the "or until any Methuselah's hand is empty" clause : when a
methuselah empties his hand he replaces all the cards or only the last one
played ? what if the last one is a "do not replace" card ?

-about the "Any vampire who commits diablerie is immune to this effect until
the next Gehenna card is played." : After Blood weakens is put into play,
tariq diablerizes a vampire. He is now immune to the effect of blood
weakens. Then another event (say, the unmasking) is put into play, putting
an end to Tariq's immunity. Now Tariq diablerizes again (must be
compulsive!). Is he immune again until the next event is put into play, and
so on, diablerizing each time anew allowing him to avoid the effect of blood
weakens ?

[Rogar]

I think it was Reyda <true_...@hotmail.com>, who once wrote:
>
> Blood Weakens
> Gehenna. Do not replace until a vampire commits diablerie.
> Cards that require any Disciplines to play are not replaced until the
> end of the currrent action or until any Methuselah's hand is empty
> (whichever comes first). Any vampire who commits diablerie is immune
> to this effect until the next Gehenna card is played.

I'll add another question: It only mentions 'play' in the context of the
discipline requirements. Does this mean that cards discarded are also
affected? E.g. if I use The Barrens to discard an Immortal Grapple during
combat, do I wait until the end of the action to replace it?

Rogar

[LSJ]

Reyda wrote:
> just to be sure the card works this way...

More seeking of LSJ confirmation on simple stuff upon which a group
cannot agree? :-)

> Blood Weakens
> Gehenna. Do not replace until a vampire commits diablerie.
> Cards that require any Disciplines to play are not replaced until the
> end of the currrent action or until any Methuselah's hand is empty
> (whichever comes first). Any vampire who commits diablerie is immune
> to this effect until the next Gehenna card is played.
>
> -about the "or until any Methuselah's hand is empty" clause : when a
> methuselah empties his hand he replaces all the cards or only the last one
> played ?

"Cards that require ... are not replaced until X".

So those cards are not replaced until X happens.

> played ? what if the last one is a "do not replace" card ?

When a card has multiple "do not replace until" clauses, the longest one
wins out (since it is still in effect when the shorter one expires).

> -about the "Any vampire who commits diablerie is immune to this effect until
> the next Gehenna card is played." : After Blood weakens is put into play,
> tariq diablerizes a vampire. He is now immune to the effect of blood
> weakens. Then another event (say, the unmasking) is put into play, putting
> an end to Tariq's immunity. Now Tariq diablerizes again (must be
> compulsive!). Is he immune again until the next event is put into play, and
> so on, diablerizing each time anew allowing him to avoid the effect of blood
> weakens ?

Yes, by card text.

--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

[LSJ]

Rogar wrote:
> I'll add another question: It only mentions 'play' in the context of the
> discipline requirements. Does this mean that cards discarded are also
> affected? E.g. if I use The Barrens to discard an Immortal Grapple during
> combat, do I wait until the end of the action to replace it?

No. It says, as you note, "play".

[salem]

On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 10:49:18 GMT, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com>
scrawled:

>Rogar wrote:
>> I'll add another question: It only mentions 'play' in the context of the
>> discipline requirements. Does this mean that cards discarded are also
>> affected? E.g. if I use The Barrens to discard an Immortal Grapple during
>> combat, do I wait until the end of the action to replace it?
>
>No. It says, as you note, "play".

really? i read it's text as:
"[Item X] are not replaced until the end of the currrent action..."

Where Item X = Cards that require any Disciplines to play

This does not check to see whether you are playing them or not, just
what the requirement would be if you did want to play it.

Requirements obviously have meaning outside of being played, for
example:

Minion cards: When played, a split Discipline card counts as requiring
the Discipline being used (for effects that enhance or restrict cards
that require certain Disciplines). In the hand (or library or ash
heap), the card can be considered to require either Discipline (for
effects that retrieve cards that require certain Disciplines). [LSJ
20020510]

Al-Ashrad's ability, also.

salem
domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
"I like to play the field"-LSJ

[LSJ]

salem wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 10:49:18 GMT, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com>
> scrawled:
>>Rogar wrote:
>>>I'll add another question: It only mentions 'play' in the context of the
>>>discipline requirements. Does this mean that cards discarded are also
>>>affected? E.g. if I use The Barrens to discard an Immortal Grapple during
>>>combat, do I wait until the end of the action to replace it?
>>
>>No. It says, as you note, "play".
>
> really? i read it's text as:
> "[Item X] are not replaced until the end of the currrent action..."
>
> Where Item X = Cards that require any Disciplines to play
>
> This does not check to see whether you are playing them or not, just
> what the requirement would be if you did want to play it.

Yeah, OK. Fair point, but Blood Weakens is clearly refering to cards
the minions have played.

[hawk_the_demon]

salem wrote:
> really? i read it's text as:
> "[Item X] are not replaced until the end of the currrent action..."
>
> Where Item X = Cards that require any Disciplines to play
>
> This does not check to see whether you are playing them or not, just
> what the requirement would be if you did want to play it.

true, the exact text does not say anything about you having to play
the card.

'Any _vampire_ is immune...' does suggest that you need to play the
card.

it also refers to action as the scope for the effect, so what happens
if you discard a card that requires a discipline outside an action (no
action -> action can't end -> card not replaced until any methuselahs
hand is empty).

could have been worded more clearly.

I think we could use a ruling/clarification.