LSJ: Durga Syn + Shilmulo Deception
Frederick Scott
Deception. Does Durga Syn tap?
Yes, because Durga Syn is instructed to tap by card text
on Shilmulo Deception.
No, because Durga Syn becomes the blocking vampire by
card text on Shilmulo Deception and Durga Syn's own
card text requires that it not tap when blocking allies
or vampire with capacity less than 5.
This would seem to be an odd case where two card texts
directly contradict one another, never mind the normal
tap-for-blocking rule which is overridden.
Applicable card text:
Shilmulo Deception:
[chi] Only usable when a minion you control successfully
blocks (play before combat). Not usable if the blocking
minion played any reaction cards that this vampire could
not play. Do not tap the blocking minion; tap this
reacting vampire instead. Now this vampire is the blocking
vampire (and combat begins as normal).
[CHI] As above, and this vampire gets an option maneuver
during the first round of the resulting combat.
Durga Syn:
Independent: Durga Syn may steal equipment with first
strike as a strike that costs 1 blood. She does not
tap when blocking allies or vampires with capacity less
than 5.
Follow-up question on Shilmulo Deception: does the
restriction against using it if Hazimel had played
any reaction cards that Durga Syn hinge on whether
the card was played at superior or inferior? If
Hazimel had played Enhanced Sense at superior, would
Durga Syn then be unable to play Shilmulo Deception
later during the action?
Fred
LSJ
> Hazimel blocks Mariana Gilbert. Durga Syn plays Shilmulo
> Deception. Does Durga Syn tap?
>
> Yes, because Durga Syn is instructed to tap by card text
> on Shilmulo Deception.
Yes.
> No, because Durga Syn becomes the blocking vampire by
> card text on Shilmulo Deception and Durga Syn's own
> card text requires that it not tap when blocking allies
> or vampire with capacity less than 5.
Indeed, she still does not tap for blocking.
But card text has tapped her.
> This would seem to be an odd case where two card texts
> directly contradict one another, never mind the normal
> tap-for-blocking rule which is overridden.
They do not contradict.
> Applicable card text:
> Shilmulo Deception:
> [chi] Only usable when a minion you control successfully
> blocks (play before combat). Not usable if the blocking
> minion played any reaction cards that this vampire could
> not play. Do not tap the blocking minion; tap this
> reacting vampire instead. Now this vampire is the blocking
> vampire (and combat begins as normal).
> [CHI] As above, and this vampire gets an option maneuver
> during the first round of the resulting combat.
>
> Durga Syn:
> Independent: Durga Syn may steal equipment with first
> strike as a strike that costs 1 blood. She does not
> tap when blocking allies or vampires with capacity less
> than 5.
>
> Follow-up question on Shilmulo Deception: does the
> restriction against using it if Hazimel had played
> any reaction cards that Durga Syn hinge on whether
> the card was played at superior or inferior? If
Yes.
> Hazimel had played Enhanced Sense at superior, would
> Durga Syn then be unable to play Shilmulo Deception
> later during the action?
Assuming she doesn't have superior Auspex, yes.
Frederick Scott
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:0eB6j.69447$RX.6...@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...
> Frederick Scott wrote:
>> Hazimel blocks Mariana Gilbert. Durga Syn plays Shilmulo
>> Deception. Does Durga Syn tap?
>>
>> Yes, because Durga Syn is instructed to tap by card text
>> on Shilmulo Deception.
>
> Yes.
>
>> No, because Durga Syn becomes the blocking vampire by
>> card text on Shilmulo Deception and Durga Syn's own
>> card text requires that it not tap when blocking allies
>> or vampire with capacity less than 5.
>
> Indeed, she still does not tap for blocking.
> But card text has tapped her.
Well, actually, the card text on Durga Syn says, "She does
not tap *WHEN* blocking...", as opposed to "She does not
tap for *FOR* blocking. Those of us who confess to being
confused by language's ambiguities might take this to be a
requirement that Durga Syn not be allowed to tap when
conducting a block - because card text won't permit it.
But if you say her card text is a simple cancelation of the
clause in the rules which would otherwise cause Durga Syn to
tap whenever she blocks (under the given circumstances and
another effect notwithstanding) then I must surely see the
light! :-)
>> This would seem to be an odd case where two card texts
>> directly contradict one another, never mind the normal
>> tap-for-blocking rule which is overridden.
>
> They do not contradict.
>
>> Applicable card text:
>> Shilmulo Deception:
>> [chi] Only usable when a minion you control successfully
>> blocks (play before combat). Not usable if the blocking
>> minion played any reaction cards that this vampire could
>> not play. Do not tap the blocking minion; tap this
>> reacting vampire instead. Now this vampire is the blocking
>> vampire (and combat begins as normal).
>> [CHI] As above, and this vampire gets an option maneuver
>> during the first round of the resulting combat.
>>
>> Durga Syn:
>> Independent: Durga Syn may steal equipment with first
>> strike as a strike that costs 1 blood. She does not
>> tap when blocking allies or vampires with capacity less
>> than 5.
Fred
Bram Vink
> Frederick Scott wrote:
> > Hazimel blocks Mariana Gilbert. Durga Syn plays Shilmulo
> > Deception. Does Durga Syn tap?
>
> > Yes, because Durga Syn is instructed to tap by card text
> > on Shilmulo Deception.
>
> Yes.
>
> > No, because Durga Syn becomes the blocking vampire by
> > card text on Shilmulo Deception and Durga Syn's own
> > card text requires that it not tap when blocking allies
> > or vampire with capacity less than 5.
>
> Indeed, she still does not tap for blocking.
> But card text has tapped her.
>
> > This would seem to be an odd case where two card texts
> > directly contradict one another, never mind the normal
> > tap-for-blocking rule which is overridden.
>
> They do not contradict.
Okay, a followup question from me:
In this case it seems to me: Vampire A taps for blocking, so Durga Syn
is indeed tapped instead.
What if Durga Syn is the blocking minion to begin with, Vampire A
plays shilmulo deception, is he tapped? (to me the use of 'instead' in
shilmulo seems to indicate otherwise)
Cheers,
Bram
Bram Vink
>
> In this case it seems to me: Vampire A taps for blocking, so Durga Syn
> is indeed tapped instead.
> What if Durga Syn is the blocking minion to begin with, Vampire A
> plays shilmulo deception, is he tapped? (to me the use of 'instead' in
> shilmulo seems to indicate otherwise)
>
> Cheers,
> Bram
Ehm, On second count, it doesnt really indicate that.
So I assume he's tapped.
Cheers,
Bram
LSJ
Correct.
JJeff
If Vamp A (untapped) uses Fillip to allow a tapped younger vamp (vamp
B) to block, can Vamp A then use Shilmulo Deception to replace the
younger vampire in blocking? Sounds a bit wierd, but it's Vamp A that
used the reaction, not vamp B, and thus Vamp B did not use any
reactions that Vamp A could not have used (per Shilmulo Deception
requirements)?
Would it matter if Vamp A was tapped, Fillip-ed Vamp B, then used WWEF
to Shilmulo Deception?
Fillip
Requires a vampire. Usable by a tapped vampire.
Choose a younger tapped vampire you control. The chosen vampire can
play reaction cards and attempt to block as though untapped until the
current action is concluded. A vampire may play only one Fillip each
turn.
LSJ
> Question:
>
> If Vamp A (untapped) uses Fillip to allow a tapped younger vamp (vamp
> B) to block, can Vamp A then use Shilmulo Deception to replace the
> younger vampire in blocking? Sounds a bit wierd, but it's Vamp A that
> used the reaction, not vamp B, and thus Vamp B did not use any
> reactions that Vamp A could not have used (per Shilmulo Deception
> requirements)?
Sure.
> Would it matter if Vamp A was tapped, Fillip-ed Vamp B, then used WWEF
> to Shilmulo Deception?
No.