LSJ: Playing Ishtarri Kholo on an Anarch
YY
an Anarch?
Is the answer:
1) Yes, and the Ishtarri becomes a Laibon Kholo, losing her Anarch
status
2) Yes, but the card has no effect while on the Ishtarri, except to
jump to a legal target at the first opportunity, as per the card text
of Ishtarri Kholo, or
3) No, the card cannot be played on the Anarch Ishtarri
Regards,
YY
Abdul alHazred
Since it´s a Laibon title. I would say "no".
___________
Ishtarri Kholo
Type: Action Modifier/Reaction
Required Clan: Ishtarri
Only usable during a referendum. Usable by a tapped vampire. Title.
Put this card on this Ishtarri to represent the unique Laibon title of
Ishtarri Kholo (worth 2 votes). Not usable if there are any older
ready untitled Ishtarri. Whenever this vampire is not a ready Ishtarri
or there is an older ready untitled Ishtarri, move this card to (one
of) the oldest ready untitled Ishtarri (if any).
LSJ
> On 26 Okt, 07:11, YY <the1andonl...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
>> Can I play Ishtarri Kholo on an Ishtarri vamp that has somehow become
>> an Anarch?
>>
>> Is the answer:
>> 1) Yes, and the Ishtarri becomes a Laibon Kholo, losing her Anarch
>> status
>> 2) Yes, but the card has no effect while on the Ishtarri, except to
>> jump to a legal target at the first opportunity, as per the card text
>> of Ishtarri Kholo, or
>> 3) No, the card cannot be played on the Anarch Ishtarri
>
Correct. (That's option 3 above).
"Only Laibon can hold the Laibon titles kholo and magaji." [10.3]
TTC
>
> > Since it´s a Laibon title. I would say "no".
>
> Correct. (That's option 3 above).
> "Only Laibon can hold the Laibon titles kholo and magaji." [10.3]
I control an Ishtarri who is a Kholo
I also control an Ishtarri of the same capacity
At my master phase, I play galaric's legacy and then a master: skill
potence on this other Ishtarri who becomes the older Ishtarri and who
is also an anarch.
What happens then?
LSJ
Nothing.
TTC
Ok thx for the insight
there is probably a rule point I don't get here but as long as I know
the correct ruling, I am fine
LSJ
The rule point in question is 10.3, quoted above.
TTC
>
> - Afficher le texte des messages précédents -
so if you have to move a card but the only target cannot receive it,
then you don't move the card.
Do I understand this correctly?
LSJ
> On 26 oct, 14:22, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>> TTC wrote:
>>> On 26 oct, 13:09, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>>>> TTC wrote:
>>>>>>> Since it�s a Laibon title. I would say "no".
>>>>>> Correct. (That's option 3 above).
>>>>>> "Only Laibon can hold the Laibon titles kholo and magaji." [10.3]
>>>>> I control an Ishtarri who is a Kholo
>>>>> I also control an Ishtarri of the same capacity
>>>>> At my master phase, I play galaric's legacy and then a master: skill
>>>>> potence on this other Ishtarri who becomes the older Ishtarri and who
>>>>> is also an anarch.
>>>>> What happens then?
>>>> Nothing.
>>> Ok thx for the insight
>>> there is probably a rule point I don't get here but as long as I know
>>> the correct ruling, I am fine
>>
>> - Afficher le texte des messages pr�c�dents -
>
> so if you have to move a card but the only target cannot receive it,
> then you don't move the card.
> Do I understand this correctly?
The Kholo card is a title card representing a Laibon title. It cannot be given
to, played on, or moved to a non-Laibon.
RoddPrime
> TTC wrote:
> > On 26 oct, 14:22, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> >> TTC wrote:
> >>> On 26 oct, 13:09, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> >>>> TTC wrote:
> >>>>>>> Since it´s a Laibon title. I would say "no".
> >>>>>> Correct. (That's option 3 above).
> >>>>>> "Only Laibon can hold the Laibon titles kholo and magaji." [10.3]
> >>>>> I control an Ishtarri who is a Kholo
> >>>>> I also control an Ishtarri of the same capacity
> >>>>> At my master phase, I play galaric's legacy and then a master: skill
> >>>>> potence on this other Ishtarri who becomes the older Ishtarri and who
> >>>>> is also an anarch.
> >>>>> What happens then?
> >>>> Nothing.
> >>> Ok thx for the insight
> >>> there is probably a rule point I don't get here but as long as I know
> >>> the correct ruling, I am fine
>
> >> - Afficher le texte des messages précédents -
>
> > so if you have to move a card but the only target cannot receive it,
> > then you don't move the card.
> > Do I understand this correctly?
>
> The Kholo card is a title card representing a Laibon title. It cannot be given
> to, played on, or moved to a non-Laibon
So if I already have a built in title and become Anarch does one lose
the title?
LSJ
Not sure what you mean by "so", but title handing is done as specified in
section 10 of the rules.
If you become independent (as is the case when you become anarch), you los the
benefit of any Cam-only, Sabbat-only, or Laibon-only title you had.
librarian
I think, if you played the Skill card first, then the title would move
to the Ishtarri, and then you couldn't Galarics onto it (Galaric's text
- the vamp would now be titled).
If you played the Galarics first, you couldn't move the Kholo to it
(Kholo text, with rule 10.3)
Galaric's Legacy
Type: Master
Master. Trifle.
Put this card on a ready non-titled, non-anarch vampire you control. The
vampire with this card is considered anarch (and independent). If this
vampire changes sects, burn this card.
Rarity: Anarchs:C/PAG4
Ishtarri Kholo
Type: Action Modifier/Reaction
Requires: Ishtarri
Only usable during a referendum. Usable by a tapped vampire. Title.
Put this card on this Ishtarri to represent the unique Laibon title of
Ishtarri Kholo (worth 2 votes). Not usable if there are any older ready
untitled Ishtarri. Whenever this vampire is not a ready Ishtarri or
there is an older ready untitled Ishtarri, move this card to (one of)
the oldest ready untitled Ishtarri (if any).
Rarity: LoB:PI
Juggernaut1981
LSJ> Why WOULDN'T the Kholo move? The Card Text requires that it moves
to the largest capacity untitled CLAN member, not moves to the largest
capacity LAIBON CLAN member. Wouldn't the card just migrate around
and become inert/active as the situation dictates?
Take this example. It seems perfectly logical based on the card text
and requires no additional info beyond "If you don't have the sect you
don't use the title" which is from the rules.
e.g. Vamp A is an 7cap Anarch Akunanse. Vamp B is a 9cap Laibon
Akunanse. Vamp C is a Titled 8cap Laibon Akunanse.
Vamp B gains Kholo during a referendum.
Vamp B goes to torpor. Kholo looks for eligible targets on the
table. Can't choose C, because C is titled. Kholo moves to A and
becomes inert because A is an Anarch.
Vamp B gets rescued. Kholo identifies an older clan member and moves,
activating again since B is a Laibon.
Robert Scythe
> LSJ> Why WOULDN'T the Kholo move? The Card Text requires that it moves
> to the largest capacity untitled CLAN member, not moves to the largest
> capacity LAIBON CLAN member.
Because the title Kholo is also sect oriented. Just as a Gangrel
Justicar political action cannot be called on Nadima, she is of the
proper clan but is independent so cannot gain the title to lie inert
until she becomes Cam.
LSJ
> On Oct 27, 4:39 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>> RoddPrime wrote:
>>> On Oct 26, 9:44 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>>>> The Kholo card is a title card representing a Laibon title. It cannot be given
>>>> to, played on, or moved to a non-Laibon
>>> So if I already have a built in title and become Anarch does one lose
>>> the title?
>> Not sure what you mean by "so", but title handing is done as specified in
>> section 10 of the rules.
>>
>> If you become independent (as is the case when you become anarch), you los the
>> benefit of any Cam-only, Sabbat-only, or Laibon-only title you had.
>
> LSJ> Why WOULDN'T the Kholo move? The Card Text requires that it moves
> to the largest capacity untitled CLAN member, not moves to the largest
> capacity LAIBON CLAN member. Wouldn't the card just migrate around
> and become inert/active as the situation dictates?
Because it's a title card.
Juggernaut1981
Robb> That prevents the card being played (she is not a Legal Target
for the Referendum). This card doesn't have that catch built in.
LSJ> Yes it is a title card, but titles when the sect doesn't match
the title become inert. You can't play it if you can't GAIN the
Laibon Title (i.e. you are a Laibon) but the MOVEMENT of the card
shouldn't preclude it going to an anarch and ending up inert... as per
the example.
LSJ
To respond to a post by LSJ, hit "reply" on that message.
Robert Scythe
> Robb> That prevents the card being played (she is not a Legal Target
> for the Referendum). This card doesn't have that catch built in.
And an anarch is not a Legal Target for the Laibon title of Kholo.
> LSJ> Yes it is a title card, but titles when the sect doesn't match
> the title become inert. You can't play it if you can't GAIN the
> Laibon Title (i.e. you are a Laibon) but the MOVEMENT of the card
> shouldn't preclude it going to an anarch and ending up inert... as per
> the example.
It needs a legal target to MOVE to. Why can't you move it to a younger
Ishtari? Because it has to move to an older one (card text). Why can't
you move it to a non-Laibon Ishtari? Because Kholo is a Laibon title
(card text).
Abdul alHazred
Gangrel Justicar is to my knowledge the only Justicar vote card that
specifies that you have to choose a camarilla vampire. The other
justicar votes just demands that you choose a vampire of the
corresponding clan. The condition to belong to the appropriate sect is
(i would assume) implied since its a camarilla title. Exactly like the
kholo cards.
floppyzedolfin
> The Kholo card is a title card representing a Laibon title. It cannot be given
> to, played on, or moved to a non-Laibon.
Just checking something here:
Suppose I control two 6-cap Laibon Ishtarris, one is Kholo and the
other has no title. Someone puts in play a 7-cap Anarch Ishtarri (for
instance, Go Anarch + Discipline skillcard on a 6-cap). Does Ishtarri
Kholo's cardtext allow me to move the card from my first Ishtarri to
the second ?
Thanks.
witness1
No, that's not the oldest ready untitled Ishtarri.
-witness1
LSJ
No. It's only looking for the presence of older Laibon Istarri with no titles.