[lsj] uncontrolled movement
salem
can you switch around the vampires in your uncontrolled region when no
one is looking? i seem to recall some sort of similar qn being asked a
fair while back but my complete inability to get google to give me the
posts i want means i can't find it.
an example would be say i have an uncontrolled vampire with 1 blood on
it. i also have a controlled vampire with 1 blood, who gets a nasty
case of Reality from my predator. while my predator looks at his hand
to find where he put that The Trick of the Danya card, can i swap the
two uncontrolled vamps around?
or is there some sort of "must not conceal public info" rule at work
here forbidding this?
thanks,
salem
James Coupe
<salem_ch...@yahoo.com> writes:
>hi,
>
>can you switch around the vampires in your uncontrolled region when no
>one is looking? i seem to recall some sort of similar qn being asked a
>fair while back but my complete inability to get google to give me the
>posts i want means i can't find it.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=9hhpeb%24j7c%244%40taliesin.netcom.
net.uk
>Also, if someone else looks at one of your four uncontrolled vampires,
>are you
>allowed to shuffle them around to confuse them?
Yes. There is no order to your hand or uncontrolled region.
[LSJ 20010629]
--
James Coupe
PGP 0x5D623D5D uk.* Committee Elections in progress
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2
13D7E668C3695D623D5D See uk.net.news.announce for more details
LSJ
>
> In message <293af2cc.02102...@posting.google.com>, salem
> <salem_ch...@yahoo.com> writes:
> >hi,
> >
> >can you switch around the vampires in your uncontrolled region when no
> >one is looking? i seem to recall some sort of similar qn being asked a
> >fair while back but my complete inability to get google to give me the
> >posts i want means i can't find it.
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=9hhpeb%24j7c%244%40taliesin.netcom.
> net.uk
>
> >Also, if someone else looks at one of your four uncontrolled vampires,
> >are you
> >allowed to shuffle them around to confuse them?
>
> Yes. There is no order to your hand or uncontrolled region.
>
> [LSJ 20010629]
You shouldn't do anything when "no one is looking", though.
You are free to shuffle/rearrange the cards in your uncontrolled region
(and hand, for that matter) at will, however.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
vermillian
> In message <293af2cc.02102...@posting.google.com>, salem
> <salem_ch...@yahoo.com> writes:
> >hi,
> >
> >can you switch around the vampires in your uncontrolled region when no
> >one is looking? i seem to recall some sort of similar qn being asked a
> >fair while back but my complete inability to get google to give me the
> >posts i want means i can't find it.
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=9hhpeb%24j7c%244%40taliesin.netcom.
> net.uk
>
> >Also, if someone else looks at one of your four uncontrolled vampires,
> >are you
> >allowed to shuffle them around to confuse them?
>
> Yes. There is no order to your hand or uncontrolled region.
>
> [LSJ 20010629]
My vampire, with a skill card, no blood, is reality (or banished) by
my grand predator. Its in my uncontrolled region, now, "marked" with a
skill card along with 3 other vampires with no counters on them.
My predator is holding a brainwash. Does he know which one of my
uncontrolled vampires is the one with the skill card on it? That is,
can I remove the skill card, and, when that vampire comes back into
play, put that skill card back on?
What if the vampire that was controlled was targetted by something
like Archon (which isn't placed on the vampire) instead of a skill
card. What then? Does my pred. know which one of my vampires had
archon played on it? I assume not, because archon is not specifically
placed on the vampire. Does it get archon back when it comes back into
play? If yes, read on.
Now I had vampire A in play, with archon, it got banished, and then
vampire A goes to uncontrolled. I have anohter copy of vamp A and two
others B and C. I transfer out vampire A (either one, they are
distinct)... but does it have Archon or not?
Confused?
~SV
LSJ
>
> James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message news:<c$uERNo$Amt9...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk>...
> > In message <293af2cc.02102...@posting.google.com>, salem
> > <salem_ch...@yahoo.com> writes:
> > >hi,
> > >
> > >can you switch around the vampires in your uncontrolled region when no
> > >one is looking? i seem to recall some sort of similar qn being asked a
> > >fair while back but my complete inability to get google to give me the
> > >posts i want means i can't find it.
> >
> > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=9hhpeb%24j7c%244%40taliesin.netcom.
> > net.uk
> >
> > >Also, if someone else looks at one of your four uncontrolled vampires,
> > >are you
> > >allowed to shuffle them around to confuse them?
> >
> > Yes. There is no order to your hand or uncontrolled region.
> >
> > [LSJ 20010629]
>
> My vampire, with a skill card, no blood, is reality (or banished) by
> my grand predator. Its in my uncontrolled region, now, "marked" with a
> skill card along with 3 other vampires with no counters on them.
>
> My predator is holding a brainwash. Does he know which one of my
> uncontrolled vampires is the one with the skill card on it?
Yes. The cards/counters stacked on it are public information.
> That is,
> can I remove the skill card, and, when that vampire comes back into
> play, put that skill card back on?
No.
> What if the vampire that was controlled was targetted by something
> like Archon (which isn't placed on the vampire) instead of a skill
> card. What then?
Nothing.
> Does my pred. know which one of my vampires had
> archon played on it?
No.
> I assume not, because archon is not specifically
> placed on the vampire. Does it get archon back when it comes back into
> play? If yes, read on.
Yes.
> Now I had vampire A in play, with archon, it got banished, and then
> vampire A goes to uncontrolled. I have anohter copy of vamp A and two
> others B and C. I transfer out vampire A (either one, they are
> distinct)... but does it have Archon or not?
If you transfer out the one who was an Archon, he is an Archon again.
If you transfer out the other one, he doesn't become an Archon.
salem
[SNIP]
> You shouldn't do anything when "no one is looking", though.
well, except pick your nose or scratch your butt...
> You are free to shuffle/rearrange the cards in your uncontrolled region
> (and hand, for that matter) at will, however.
can you conceal them whilst rearranging? or should an observant
opponent be allowed to watch the rearrangement and thus keep an eye on
which vampire is which?
also, just to be clear, say it was ranjan who got reality/banished,
and i have gideon already uncontrolled, and they both have 1 blood.
if my predator says "sasha miklos trick of danya's ranjan, and i
choose my pool as the destination of the stolen pool", can i say "no,
you must choose one of these vampire backs. none of them have their
name exposed. you have to point to one of the card backs"? rather than
allow them to choose a name?
if they are allowed to choose a name, and i had _another_ copy of
ranjan in my uncontrolled region already with 2 blood on it, could i
take a counter off that ranjan instead? O:)
thanks,
salem.
LSJ
>
> LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3DB69192...@white-wolf.com>...
> [SNIP]
>
> > You shouldn't do anything when "no one is looking", though.
>
> well, except pick your nose or scratch your butt...
>
> > You are free to shuffle/rearrange the cards in your uncontrolled region
> > (and hand, for that matter) at will, however.
>
> can you conceal them whilst rearranging? or should an observant
> opponent be allowed to watch the rearrangement and thus keep an eye on
> which vampire is which?
Cards must be visible at all times.
> also, just to be clear, say it was ranjan who got reality/banished,
> and i have gideon already uncontrolled, and they both have 1 blood.
> if my predator says "sasha miklos trick of danya's ranjan, and i
> choose my pool as the destination of the stolen pool", can i say "no,
> you must choose one of these vampire backs. none of them have their
> name exposed. you have to point to one of the card backs"? rather than
> allow them to choose a name?
Of course.
vermillian
> vermillian wrote:
> >
> > James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message news:<c$uERNo$Amt9...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk>...
> > > In message <293af2cc.02102...@posting.google.com>, salem
> > > <salem_ch...@yahoo.com> writes:
> > > >hi,
> > > >
> > > >can you switch around the vampires in your uncontrolled region when no
> > > >one is looking? i seem to recall some sort of similar qn being asked a
> > > >fair while back but my complete inability to get google to give me the
> > > >posts i want means i can't find it.
> > >
> > > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=9hhpeb%24j7c%244%40taliesin.netcom.
> > > net.uk
> > >
> > > >Also, if someone else looks at one of your four uncontrolled vampires,
> > > >are you
> > > >allowed to shuffle them around to confuse them?
> > >
> > > Yes. There is no order to your hand or uncontrolled region.
> > What if the vampire that was controlled was targetted by something
> > like Archon (which isn't placed on the vampire) instead of a skill
> > card. What then?
>
> Nothing.
>
> > Does my pred. know which one of my vampires had
> > archon played on it?
>
> No.
>
> > I assume not, because archon is not specifically
> > placed on the vampire. Does it get archon back when it comes back into
> > play? If yes, read on.
>
> Yes.
>
> > Now I had vampire A in play, with archon, it got banished, and then
> > vampire A goes to uncontrolled. I have anohter copy of vamp A and two
> > others B and C. I transfer out vampire A (either one, they are
> > distinct)... but does it have Archon or not?
>
> If you transfer out the one who was an Archon, he is an Archon again.
> If you transfer out the other one, he doesn't become an Archon.
So, someone banishes my empty vamp A with archon. Its uncontrolled
with 3 other vamps another A one B and a C. I shuffle my crypt as per
your previous post allows. My predator brainwashes a vamp A I have in
my crypt. Which vampire A is it? Is it the one with archon or the one
without? You see the problem? I don't know which vampire is the one
with archon played on it, as I shuffled my crypt, and as the vampires
are no longer distinct (non-marked) there's no way of knowing.
Solution? Perhaps we shouldn't allow shuffling of cards in your
uncontrolled region if one has been targetted by a card that does not
mark him...
~SV
LSJ
> > > Now I had vampire A in play, with archon, it got banished, and then
> > > vampire A goes to uncontrolled. I have anohter copy of vamp A and two
> > > others B and C. I transfer out vampire A (either one, they are
> > > distinct)... but does it have Archon or not?
> >
> > If you transfer out the one who was an Archon, he is an Archon again.
> > If you transfer out the other one, he doesn't become an Archon.
>
> with 3 other vamps another A [A2] one B and a C. I shuffle my [uncontrolled
> region] as per your previous post allows. My predator brainwashes a vamp A
> without?
It is whichever one it is. There are physical cards. One is A1, the other
is A2. If the Brainwash is on A1, then it is on A1. If it is on A2, then it
is on A2.
> You see the problem? I don't know which vampire is the one
> with archon played on it, as I shuffled my crypt, and as the vampires
> are no longer distinct (non-marked) there's no way of knowing.
You should know. Take care when "shuffling" so as to retain that
knowledge, or, after shuffling, if you have forgotten and can no
longer tell which one is A1, then designate one to be A1.
> Solution? Perhaps we shouldn't allow shuffling of cards in your
> uncontrolled region if one has been targetted by a card that does not
> mark him...
Solution: mark the card somehow (post-it note on the face, whatever),
or "reassign" the designation "A1" vs. "A2" if the distinction is
lost.
reyda
>> Solution? Perhaps we shouldn't allow shuffling of cards in your
>> uncontrolled region if one has been targetted by a card that does
>> not mark him...
>
> Solution: mark the card somehow (post-it note on the face,
> whatever), or "reassign" the designation "A1" vs. "A2" if the
> distinction is lost.
why is this the case ? shouldn't be all information about the game public ?
why can't i put "post-its" on my prey's banished vampires to remember who is
who ?
LSJ
> why is this the case ? shouldn't be all information about the game public ?
Identity of the cards in a player's hand and uncontrolled region is not public.
Darky
in your crypt, shuffle them, and put the counters back as they were
before you shuffled (as in, on the same vampires) and if you can do
so, do you have to announce it so a judge can be called to prevent you
from cheating or something?
LSJ
The counters remain on the card.
As always call the judge over if you want to do something and the
other players question your ability to keep things straight.
vermillian
> vermillian wrote:
> > LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
> > > vermillian wrote:
> > > > Now I had vampire A in play, with archon, it got banished, and then
> > > > vampire A goes to uncontrolled. I have anohter copy of vamp A and two
> > > > others B and C. I transfer out vampire A (either one, they are
> > > > distinct)... but does it have Archon or not?
> > >
> > > If you transfer out the one who was an Archon, he is an Archon again.
> > > If you transfer out the other one, he doesn't become an Archon.
> >
> > So, someone banishes my empty vamp A [A1] with archon. Its uncontrolled
> > with 3 other vamps another A [A2] one B and a C. I shuffle my [uncontrolled
> > region] as per your previous post allows. My predator brainwashes a vamp A
> > I have in my crypt. Which vampire A is it? Is it the one with archon or the one
> > without?
>
> It is whichever one it is. There are physical cards. One is A1, the other
> is A2. If the Brainwash is on A1, then it is on A1. If it is on A2, then it
> is on A2.
>
> > You see the problem? I don't know which vampire is the one
> > with archon played on it, as I shuffled my crypt, and as the vampires
> > are no longer distinct (non-marked) there's no way of knowing.
>
> You should know. Take care when "shuffling" so as to retain that
> knowledge, or, after shuffling, if you have forgotten and can no
> longer tell which one is A1, then designate one to be A1.
But do other people know this designation, or is it a designation only
I can differentiate?
> > Solution? Perhaps we shouldn't allow shuffling of cards in your
> > uncontrolled region if one has been targetted by a card that does not
> > mark him...
>
> Solution: mark the card somehow (post-it note on the face, whatever),
> or "reassign" the designation "A1" vs. "A2" if the distinction is
> lost.
So, the solution is that a vampire with archon in your uncontrolled
region IS marked. Am I getting this correctly?
Sorry to resurrect an old topic (I've been ill for a few days).
~SV
LSJ
> LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3DB7F82D...@white-wolf.com>...
> > You should know. Take care when "shuffling" so as to retain that
> > knowledge, or, after shuffling, if you have forgotten and can no
> > longer tell which one is A1, then designate one to be A1.
>
> But do other people know this designation, or is it a designation only
> I can differentiate?
One can't differentiate the cards from the backs, so it doesn't matter.
> > > Solution? Perhaps we shouldn't allow shuffling of cards in your
> > > uncontrolled region if one has been targetted by a card that does not
> > > mark him...
> >
> > Solution: mark the card somehow (post-it note on the face, whatever),
> > or "reassign" the designation "A1" vs. "A2" if the distinction is
> > lost.
>
> So, the solution is that a vampire with archon in your uncontrolled
> region IS marked. Am I getting this correctly?
You either mark it or keep track of it some other way (like the
reassignment noted above).
vermillian
> You either mark it or keep track of it some other way (like the
> reassignment noted above).
Thank you for the clarification.
So essentially, as you answered to my original inquirey (I believe)
that archon doesn't mark a vampire while its in play, but when it hits
the uncontrolled region again for some reason, it gets marked, or
designated (same thing in my opinion).
~SV
Flux
But Archon does mark a vampire while in play. You don't have to mark it
physically, but he is designated as an Archon (which is the same thing,
as you say yourself). For example, if someone else contests the vampire,
he's still an Archon if he comes back, but not if his second copy enters
play. Clearly, one copy is 'marked' as an Archon, though in most cases
you don't need any help to know which.
OTOH, if I understood LSJ correctly, designating an uncontrolled vampire
as Archon does not have to be made publicly. For example, if you put a
mark on the card's face and then suffle it only you will know which one
is the Archon. If you somehow lose track of which card is the Archon,
you designate one as the Archon, but you don't have to announce it to
the remaining players, just keep it to yourself (and the judge - you can
also put it in a bit of paper in case someone wants to check afterwards).
Likewise, you don't have to announce if any of your uncontrolled
vampires is a Prince, Primogen, or anything about their special
abilities (even if they have been controlled before), unless some effect
specifically asks for it.
Flux
LSJ
>
> LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3DBE81F9...@white-wolf.com>...
>
> > You either mark it or keep track of it some other way (like the
> > reassignment noted above).
>
> Thank you for the clarification.
>
> So essentially, as you answered to my original inquirey (I believe)
> that archon doesn't mark a vampire while its in play,
It does.
> but when it hits
> the uncontrolled region again for some reason, it gets marked, or
> designated (same thing in my opinion).
And it remains marked in the uncontrolled region, yes.