Play it Again, Carlotta
Lupus Australis
Here's a question which I cannot remember being raised before, though I
suppose it must have been.
A handful of cards have text saying that "Only one [card title] can be
played in a game."
I can think of four:
Giant's Blood
Ancient Influence
Political Stranglehold
Out of Control
Now suppose I play Ancient Influence, and am then forced to take it back
into my hand due to Delaying Tactics. Is the card now unplayable for the
rest of the game? Or can I play it in the grounds that I will
still have played only one Ancient Influence, albeit two times.
Lupus Australis
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Richard D. Zopf
>Here's a question which I cannot remember being raised before, though I
>suppose it must have been.
>A handful of cards have text saying that "Only one [card title] can be
>played in a game."
>I can think of four:
> Giant's Blood
> Ancient Influence
> Political Stranglehold
> Out of Control
>Now suppose I play Ancient Influence, and am then forced to take it back
>into my hand due to Delaying Tactics. Is the card now unplayable for the
>rest of the game? Or can I play it in the grounds that I will
>still have played only one Ancient Influence, albeit two times.
Based on the fact that DT cancels the referendum, and that the minion
that called the political action cannot attempt another under no
repeat actions, I'd guess that card text has been fufilled, and the
card has been "played" once. Thus it can't be played again
As far as a Sudden Reversal"ed" Giant's Blood goes, though, the line
"burn a master card played by another Meth with no effect" inclines me
to think that the GB has had _all_ of it's effects cancelled,
including the part that limits future Giant's Bloods from generating
their effect. In this case, I'd say that you can play another GB for
it's refill effect.
IANALSJ...
Regards,
R. David Zopf
guenh...@mindspring.com
Atom Weaver
Lupus Australis
> Lupus Australis <jbwh...@dorsai.org> wrote:
>
> >Here's a question which I cannot remember being raised before, though I
> >suppose it must have been.
>
> >A handful of cards have text saying that "Only one [card title] can be
> >played in a game."
>
> >I can think of four:
>
> > Giant's Blood
> > Ancient Influence
> > Political Stranglehold
> > Out of Control
>
> >Now suppose I play Ancient Influence, and am then forced to take it back
> >into my hand due to Delaying Tactics. Is the card now unplayable for the
> >rest of the game? Or can I play it in the grounds that I will
> >still have played only one Ancient Influence, albeit two times.
>
> Based on the fact that DT cancels the referendum, and that the minion
> that called the political action cannot attempt another under no
> repeat actions, I'd guess that card text has been fufilled, and the
> card has been "played" once. Thus it can't be played again
You misunderstand the thrust of my question. It is certain that the card
has been played once. But card text does not say that that the card can
only be played once. It says you can only play one such card.
It is still the same (one) card. It is not another copy. Even if you
recover it to your hand and play it a zillion times, you will still have
only played the one card.
I'm fairly sure that LSJ will tell us that it does not matter, because the
game does not maintain a memory of whether cards in the hand are or are
not the same copy as a card previously in your ash heap. But I just
thought I'd check anyway.
> As far as a Sudden Reversal"ed" Giant's Blood goes, though, the line
> "burn a master card played by another Meth with no effect" inclines me
> to think that the GB has had _all_ of it's effects cancelled,
> including the part that limits future Giant's Bloods from generating
> their effect. In this case, I'd say that you can play another GB for
> it's refill effect.
No, because the Giant's Blood *has* been played. Its card text has no
effect, but that will not change the fact that the next Giant's Blood will
be unplayable because of its own card text.
I'm more intersted in a case where the *same* copy of Giant's Blood, after
being played (whether successfully or not) is recovered to your hand by
Carlotta.
Richard D. Zopf
>On Sun, 22 Nov 1998, Richard D. Zopf wrote:
>> Lupus Australis <jbwh...@dorsai.org> wrote:
>>
>> >Here's a question which I cannot remember being raised before, though I
>> >suppose it must have been.
>>
>> >A handful of cards have text saying that "Only one [card title] can be
>> >played in a game."
>>
>> >I can think of four:
>>
>> > Giant's Blood
>> > Ancient Influence
>> > Political Stranglehold
>> > Out of Control
>>
>> >Now suppose I play Ancient Influence, and am then forced to take it back
>> >into my hand due to Delaying Tactics. Is the card now unplayable for the
>> >rest of the game? Or can I play it in the grounds that I will
>> >still have played only one Ancient Influence, albeit two times.
>>
>> Based on the fact that DT cancels the referendum, and that the minion
>> that called the political action cannot attempt another under no
>> repeat actions, I'd guess that card text has been fufilled, and the
>> card has been "played" once. Thus it can't be played again
>You misunderstand the thrust of my question. It is certain that the card
>has been played once. But card text does not say that that the card can
>only be played once. It says you can only play one such card.
Oohh, this is English language semantical loophole Lupus, instead of
inquisitive needs to know for his edification Lupus ;-) Okay...
>It is still the same (one) card. It is not another copy. Even if you
>recover it to your hand and play it a zillion times
or a kazillion times, or a bazillion times
>, you will still have
>only played the one card.
Yes. But it only has the potential to generate its effect the first
time it is played.
While your loophole interpretation make a stellar idea for a Carlotta
Giovanni Deck (Recycling Giant's Bloods and Ancient Influences,
whee!!!), I'm pretty certain that card text will be interpreted to be
limiting the number of instances in which the card can be played for
its effect, and not which particular copy of the card is being used.
>I'm fairly sure that LSJ will tell us that it does not matter, because the
>game does not maintain a memory of whether cards in the hand are or are
>not the same copy as a card previously in your ash heap. But I just
>thought I'd check anyway.
Good call.
>> As far as a Sudden Reversal"ed" Giant's Blood goes, though, the line
>> "burn a master card played by another Meth with no effect" inclines me
>> to think that the GB has had _all_ of it's effects cancelled,
>> including the part that limits future Giant's Bloods from generating
>> their effect. In this case, I'd say that you can play another GB for
>> it's refill effect.
>No, because the Giant's Blood *has* been played. Its card text has no
>effect, but that will not change the fact that the next Giant's Blood will
>be unplayable because of its own card text.
I suppose it matters whether the card text is considered to be
nullified by the SR or not... It'll be interesting to see what LSJ
says....
LSJ
> Lupus Australis <jbwh...@dorsai.org> wrote:
> > Richard D. Zopf wrote:
> >> Lupus Australis <jbwh...@dorsai.org> wrote:
> >> >A handful of cards have text saying that "Only one [card title] can be
> >> >played in a game."
> >> > Ancient Influence
> >> > Political Stranglehold
> >> > Out of Control
> >>
> >> >Now suppose I play Ancient Influence, and am then forced to take it back
> >> >into my hand due to Delaying Tactics. Is the card now unplayable for the
> >> >rest of the game? Or can I play it in the grounds that I will
> >> >still have played only one Ancient Influence, albeit two times.
> >>
> >> Based on the fact that DT cancels the referendum, and that the minion
> >> that called the political action cannot attempt another under no
> >> repeat actions, I'd guess that card text has been fufilled, and the
> >> card has been "played" once. Thus it can't be played again
>
> >You misunderstand the thrust of my question. It is certain that the card
> >has been played once. But card text does not say that that the card can
> >only be played once. It says you can only play one such card.
>
>
> >I'm fairly sure that LSJ will tell us that it does not matter, because the
> >game does not maintain a memory of whether cards in the hand are or are
> >not the same copy as a card previously in your ash heap. But I just
> >thought I'd check anyway.
>
> Good call.
Right. So the effect is the same as if it had said "can only be played
once".
> >> As far as a Sudden Reversal"ed" Giant's Blood goes, though, the line
> >> "burn a master card played by another Meth with no effect" inclines me
> >> to think that the GB has had _all_ of it's effects cancelled,
> >> including the part that limits future Giant's Bloods from generating
> >> their effect. In this case, I'd say that you can play another GB for
> >> it's refill effect.
>
> >No, because the Giant's Blood *has* been played. Its card text has no
> >effect, but that will not change the fact that the next Giant's Blood will
> >be unplayable because of its own card text.
>
> I suppose it matters whether the card text is considered to be
> nullified by the SR or not... It'll be interesting to see what LSJ
> says....
No, it doesn't matter.
SR does, in fact, nullify the entirety of card text.
But the next Giant's Blood (or Out of Control) has its own
(un-nullified) card text that says "Only one ... can be played
in a game." These cards restrict themselves - they do not
restrict the copy (or re-playment) of themselves.
--
L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules:
http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html