Some Hand, Uncontrolled, and Ash Heap Questions
Halcyan 2
uncontrolled region, and ash heap. They're a bit weird but they've been
bothering me for a while...
#1.) Are you allowed to shuffle your hand and cards in your uncontrolled region
whenever you want? For example after Fortune Teller 1 looks at a card in your
hand, can you shuffle your hand before Fortune Teller 2 looks at another card?
Also, if someone else looks at one of your four uncontrolled vampires, are you
allowed to shuffle them around to confuse them?
#2.) I know that in general you are allowed to shuffle about cards in your ash
heap (since order doesn't matter). Does that mean you can look through your ash
heap and organize the cards? You know, put the 5 Bondings together and the 4
Cloaks together so that you know exactly how many you have left of each?
#3.) I know that other Methusalehs are allowed to look at your ash heap. Are
they allowed to mess with the order of your ash heap? (And can you change the
order of theirs?)
#4.) I'm just curious as to how most people are going to deal with Grasp the
Ghostly. I know a lot of the time people discard things without telling others
so who knows whether or not someone discards a valuable piece of equipment. So
do you suggest people checking everyone else's ash heap every few turns? (If
so, it would take an awful lot of time). Or would it be reasonable (or
enforcable) for someone to ask someone else what's in the ash heap? And since
asking/checking only when you have a Grasp would sort of reveal your hand so to
speak, wouldn't it be a good idea to ask/check every once in a while to keep
everyone else on their toes?
Thanks!
Halcyan 2
LSJ
>Okay I have a handful of questions concerning your hand (no pun intended),
>uncontrolled region, and ash heap. They're a bit weird but they've been
>bothering me for a while...
>
>#1.) Are you allowed to shuffle your hand and cards in your uncontrolled region
>whenever you want? For example after Fortune Teller 1 looks at a card in your
>hand, can you shuffle your hand before Fortune Teller 2 looks at another card?
>Also, if someone else looks at one of your four uncontrolled vampires, are you
>allowed to shuffle them around to confuse them?
Yes. There is no order to your hand or uncontrolled region. You've got
to keep the counters with their respective cards in your uncontrolled
region, though.
>#2.) I know that in general you are allowed to shuffle about cards in your ash
>heap (since order doesn't matter). Does that mean you can look through your ash
>heap and organize the cards? You know, put the 5 Bondings together and the 4
>Cloaks together so that you know exactly how many you have left of each?
Sure.
>#3.) I know that other Methusalehs are allowed to look at your ash heap. Are
>they allowed to mess with the order of your ash heap? (And can you change the
>order of theirs?)
Sure. I don't see the point here, though - they'd be free to rearrange
the stack back. This may end up with a judge being called over to
determine stalling.
>#4.) I'm just curious as to how most people are going to deal with Grasp the
>Ghostly. I know a lot of the time people discard things without telling others
? Most players around here pay close attention to everyone's discards.
That information is valuable by itself.
>so who knows whether or not someone discards a valuable piece of equipment. So
>do you suggest people checking everyone else's ash heap every few turns? (If
>so, it would take an awful lot of time). Or would it be reasonable (or
>enforcable) for someone to ask someone else what's in the ash heap? And since
Sure. If she declines to tell you, you're free to look at her ash heap
yourself.
>asking/checking only when you have a Grasp would sort of reveal your hand so to
>speak, wouldn't it be a good idea to ask/check every once in a while to keep
>everyone else on their toes?
It'd be a very good idea to keep up with everyone's discard in
general. That information is useful for things beyound simple
necromancy.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
LSJ
>
> Okay I have a handful of questions concerning your hand (no pun intended),
> uncontrolled region, and ash heap. They're a bit weird but they've been
> bothering me for a while...
>
> #1.) Are you allowed to shuffle your hand and cards in your uncontrolled region
> whenever you want? For example after Fortune Teller 1 looks at a card in your
Yes.
> hand, can you shuffle your hand before Fortune Teller 2 looks at another card?
Yes.
> Also, if someone else looks at one of your four uncontrolled vampires, are you
> allowed to shuffle them around to confuse them?
Yes.
> #2.) I know that in general you are allowed to shuffle about cards in your ash
> heap (since order doesn't matter). Does that mean you can look through your ash
> heap and organize the cards? You know, put the 5 Bondings together and the 4
> Cloaks together so that you know exactly how many you have left of each?
Yes.
> #3.) I know that other Methusalehs are allowed to look at your ash heap. Are
> they allowed to mess with the order of your ash heap? (And can you change the
> order of theirs?)
Possibly, but I see no purpose in this. At any rate, the ash heap is unordered,
so there's no real rule regarding the re-ordering of it.
> #4.) I'm just curious as to how most people are going to deal with Grasp the
> Ghostly. I know a lot of the time people discard things without telling others
> so who knows whether or not someone discards a valuable piece of equipment. So
? Most players around here pay close attention to what other players are
discarding - that's valuable information for anyone, not just necromancers.
> do you suggest people checking everyone else's ash heap every few turns? (If
> so, it would take an awful lot of time). Or would it be reasonable (or
> enforcable) for someone to ask someone else what's in the ash heap? And since
> asking/checking only when you have a Grasp would sort of reveal your hand so to
> speak, wouldn't it be a good idea to ask/check every once in a while to keep
> everyone else on their toes?
It's a good idea just because it keeps you informed as to what's going on with
their deck.
Halcyan 2
>>they allowed to mess with the order of your ash heap? (And can you change
>the
>>order of theirs?)
>
>Sure. I don't see the point here, though - they'd be free to rearrange
>the stack back. This may end up with a judge being called over to
>determine stalling.
One might want to rearrange someone else's ash heap to get a better idea of
what cards have been played (and so what cards are left). In cases where you
know what's in the other player's deck (or even with Pre-constructed starters)
and especially in any sort of CL environment it might be helpful to know how
many bleed modifiers or stealth (and how many of each type) has been played.
>>#4.) I'm just curious as to how most people are going to deal with Grasp the
>>Ghostly. I know a lot of the time people discard things without telling
>others
>
>? Most players around here pay close attention to everyone's discards.
>That information is valuable by itself.
Really? Well most people I know discard rather discreetly. And it's hard to
sort of peer across the table to see what card someone cross-table just
discarded.
>>so who knows whether or not someone discards a valuable piece of equipment.
>So
>>do you suggest people checking everyone else's ash heap every few turns? (If
>>so, it would take an awful lot of time). Or would it be reasonable (or
>>enforcable) for someone to ask someone else what's in the ash heap? And
>since
>
>Sure. If she declines to tell you, you're free to look at her ash heap
>yourself.
>
If she doesn't "decline," is she obligated to tell the truth? (If not, then one
might as well look at the heap oneself each and every time).
Halcyan 2
LSJ
>
> >>#3.) I know that other Methusalehs are allowed to look at your ash heap. Are
> >>they allowed to mess with the order of your ash heap? (And can you change
> >the
> >>order of theirs?)
> >
> >Sure. I don't see the point here, though - they'd be free to rearrange
> >the stack back. This may end up with a judge being called over to
> >determine stalling.
>
> One might want to rearrange someone else's ash heap to get a better idea of
> what cards have been played (and so what cards are left). In cases where you
> know what's in the other player's deck (or even with Pre-constructed starters)
> and especially in any sort of CL environment it might be helpful to know how
> many bleed modifiers or stealth (and how many of each type) has been played.
That's what counting's for. Since they can rearrange the stack as soon as
you're done (the ash heap has no order), there's not much point here.
> >>#4.) I'm just curious as to how most people are going to deal with Grasp the
> >>Ghostly. I know a lot of the time people discard things without telling
> >others
> >
> >? Most players around here pay close attention to everyone's discards.
> >That information is valuable by itself.
>
> Really? Well most people I know discard rather discreetly. And it's hard to
> sort of peer across the table to see what card someone cross-table just
> discarded.
It'd be a good habit to get into, I assure you. I'd suggest asking about
every discard "what was that?" if you can't see it.
> >>so who knows whether or not someone discards a valuable piece of equipment.
> >So
> >>do you suggest people checking everyone else's ash heap every few turns? (If
> >>so, it would take an awful lot of time). Or would it be reasonable (or
> >>enforcable) for someone to ask someone else what's in the ash heap? And
> >since
> >
> >Sure. If she declines to tell you, you're free to look at her ash heap
> >yourself.
> >
>
> If she doesn't "decline," is she obligated to tell the truth? (If not, then one
> might as well look at the heap oneself each and every time).
Yes. See the V:EKN rules regarding misrepresentation of public information.