Deck Backers?
HVKreiter
I just started making Deck Backers for one of my other games that I
work on. Does the VTES crowd ever use them, or have any interest in
them? If so, how many cards are there in a deck?
Thanks in advance!
Heather
PS. I'd still love more reference pics if anyone wants to send 'em to
me!
The Lasombra
>Hi Folks,
>I just started making Deck Backers for one of my other games that I
>work on. Does the VTES crowd ever use them, or have any interest in
>them? If so, how many cards are there in a deck?
Deck sleeves are very popular in Europe, and in specific locales in
the US.
90 cards in the library.
12 cards in the crypt.
Usually you want the 90/12 to be different.
Peteo
> Hi Folks,
>
> I just started making Deck Backers for one of my other games that I
> work on. Does the VTES crowd ever use them, or have any interest in
> them? If so, how many cards are there in a deck?
>
> Thanks in advance!
Lots of the VTES crowd use card sleeves (which is what I assume you
are talking about).
The typical deck has 102 cards in it. 12 Crypt cards and 90 Library
cards. Many players sleeve all of the cards, most of time using two
kinds of sleeves to easily tell them apart. Some only sleeve the 12
Crypt cards since they see the most use in the game.
I'm sure people would love to have some of your art to use for card
sleeves. I would.
Peteo
andreas.s...@gmail.com
I would buy a stock of Liquefy the Mortal Coil as sleeves in an
instant! :)
HVKreiter
to go in the sleeves behind the actual card so that you would see
artwork instead of the back of the card. They would be the same size
as the cards (2.5" x 3.5") and have the artwork cropped to fit the
sleeves.
Also, would it matter if the orientation was horizontal or vertical?
Thanks for all the advice so far!
Heather
devil_in_the_p...@yahoo.com
The vast majority of the sleeves avalaible are opaque, so deckbackers
might not be a worthwile investment of your time. In fact, a lot of
the CCG gamers I know would never use clear sleeves (Vtes, MtG and L5R
players).
Janne Hägglund
And VTES has a problem with card backs. Older players have lots of
Jyhad-edition cards, which have different backs. And 3rd Edition backs were
printed upside down.
So instead of clear sleeves, VTES players tend to use opaque ones, because
they eliminate the problems with card backs.
HG
Meej
So do the "card backers" Heather is talking about - they make a clear
sleeve essentially opaque but with custom art. I think it's a fine
idea, personally - as a former L5R player, "mon"-backing a deck was a
really big trend. Getting good-quality clear sleeves can be a bit of
a pain, though.
Also, Heather, they'd almost certainly want to be vertical, the way
the game is set up.
- D.J.
HVKreiter
Well, IF anyone is interested, I'd be happy to make a batch for you.
It wouldn't be a problem if you wanted different images for the Crypt
and Library cards too.
Thanks again,
Heather
devil_in_the_p...@yahoo.com
How much would charge for them?
BobbyDoc
> Well, IF anyone is interested, I'd be happy to make a batch for you.
Count me in !!
Keep us updated.
Great stuff!
Regards
Robert
coincoi...@hotmail.com
???
You would buy opaque sleeves with heather artworks but would not buy
clear sleeves + deck backers with heather artworks? -> Does it seem
logical to you?
90 clear sleeves cost less than 1€. I don't buy them at the moment but
I would if Heather was creating something to make them useful and not
too expensive.
James Coupe
.com>, coincoi...@hotmail.com writes:
>You would buy opaque sleeves with heather artworks but would not buy
>clear sleeves + deck backers with heather artworks? -> Does it seem
>logical to you?
Many of the clear sleeves I've used/have seen have been significantly
lower quality than the opaque sleeves - flimsy and easily ripped.
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
sul...@aol.com
This does seem to be the most salient point. Since people could
easily switch to clear sleeves with inserts.
While it's true that there are more options for opaque sleeves, there
are plenty of people who use clear sleeves. It might be changing, but
there seems to be a slight preference for clear sleeves around here.
Hard to say when people often borrow my decks and I only use clear
sleeves since I buy them by the 10,000.
HVKreiter
$29.99. A set of 102 cards would be $49.99. Shipping in the United
states would be either $2 for first class or $5 for priority.
International shipping would be $6
Meej
What weight paper/stock are they printed onto? Comparable to a game
card, thinner, thicker? glossy finish, or matte?
- D.J., just full of questions. :-)
HVKreiter
> - D.J., just full of questions. :-)
Happy to answer all of them! They are printed on Konica Photo Glossy
Heavy weight (10.4 mil/ 66lb) paper using archival inks (Epson R1800
printer). I'd say they're slightly thinner than a game card. If you
have a preference for matte over glossy, it's not a problem to print
on either type of paper. The matte paper I'd be using is Epson
Premium Presentation Paper (9 mil / 44 lb). Also please keep in mind,
that I'm not sending these out to be done. I will be doing all the
printing, cutting, packaging, etc. all by my little self =0)
nys...@cs.com
I don't expect anyone will be using these for the larger "Library"
deck. Most players play with the tournament legal maximum of about 90
cards. Put these in thin, fragile, clear card sleeves, and they
become a rather bulky pile. If you put them in the more substantial
card sleeves, of the opaque sort, then they 90 cards becomes a rather
imposing pile that is starting to threaten to topple over. Some
people (including me) often play with the opaque sleeves anyway, but
90 cards already reaches a level of bulk that is almost too unwieldy
for convenient shuffling.
Even contained with the thinner sort of clear sleeve, I think the 90
card-backs plus 90-cards plus 90 sleeves would result in a pile that
is even bulkier than the barely manageable opaque-sleeved deck.
Moreover, I know from experience that the thinner sleeves are not
designed to hold 2 cards at once -- they are even more likely to tear
and split than usual. So you would need clear sleeves of the bulkier,
more durable type. So by now, the 90 cards have become an absurdly
tall and precariously balanced tower. Nor do I think using the
thinner matte paper you describe would be enough to solve the problem.
Then there is the trouble of putting all those cards and backs
together in the 90 sleeves.
However, for the smaller "crypt" deck, which rarely contains more than
12 cards, none of this is a problem. The increased bulk actually
makes shuffling easier. In the past, I used to double-back crypt
cards in bulky clear sleeves, and found the result rather appealing.
If however,
Frederick Scott
news:088c389f-bce9-4944...@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> I don't expect anyone will be using these for the larger "Library"
> deck. Most players play with the tournament legal maximum of about 90
> cards. Put these in thin, fragile, clear card sleeves, and they
> become a rather bulky pile. If you put them in the more substantial
> card sleeves, of the opaque sort, then they 90 cards becomes a rather
> imposing pile that is starting to threaten to topple over. Some
> people (including me) often play with the opaque sleeves anyway, but
> 90 cards already reaches a level of bulk that is almost too unwieldy
> for convenient shuffling.
Pile shuffle! It takes a moment or two longer but combined with a
few cuts beforehand, I'm pretty sure one pile shuffle does a great
job randomizing and I'm confident enough of two pile shuffles (with
a frew extra cuts in between the two pile shuffles) that I use only
that for randomizing a completely ordered deck or between games when
like cards could easily be piled up in my discard pile. I don't
trust riffle-shuffling a sleeved deck further than I could levitate
myself but pile shuffling is just fine.
I do agree, though, about the thickness. 90 sleeved cards are reasonable
enough to play with except when the sleeves are brand new and slippery.
But I wouldn't want to try playing with substantially thicker cards.
I might be talked into using these things for my crypts, though, if I
liked the art well enough and I could get lots small enough not to have
to crypt lots of decks with the same art in order to avoid paying a Disarm
and Disleg. Assorted lots might make it worthwhile to where she could
print enough to get her own costs down and earn a buck while we would
could get some variation in our crypt art. And unlike opaque sleeve art,
these things shouldn't wear out - if the clear sleeves gets gunky or splits,
just replace it and keep the backer.
(further down...
> However, for the smaller "crypt" deck, which rarely contains more than
> 12 cards, none of this is a problem.
Yup.
Fred
Kevin M.
> The Deck Backers that I'm making aren't the sleeves, but they're meant
> to go in the sleeves behind the actual card so that you would see
> artwork instead of the back of the card. They would be the same size
> as the cards (2.5" x 3.5") and have the artwork cropped to fit the
> sleeves.
Heather,
I wouldn't be interested in the deck backs you are talking about, since
the thickness would make me unhappy, but have you talked to a company
about putting your art onto sleeves and selling those? I know several
players that would pay decent money to have their VTES cards with VTES
sleeves.
Since we use 90 card decks, if you ordered 10,000 sleeves with your
various VTES art, it would only take you ~100 sales to go through the lot,
which I bet you could sell very quickly. I personally would buy several
of 'em! :)
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
devil_in_the_p...@yahoo.com
price point on set of 102 is prohibitively expensive for me because
a)that's a lot of money that I'm not sure I could even use in a
sanctioned tournament b) I can buy almost 5 boxes of Dragonshield
sleeves (the best sleeves on the market) for that price c) I'd rather
just spend that much on more cards. I'd love to see your [Heather]
art work on some Dragonshields and would definitely buy them.
Two side notes:
I think a lot of people are equating cheap clear sleeves with low
quality. Dragonshield and Ultra Pro both put out a high quality clear
sleeve. The Ultra Pro sleeves that are 100 for a dollar are obviously
of poor quality.
What do you guys think about a sleeve that WW would put out with the
correct vtes card back as the artwork?
Jadasc
> I think a lot of people are equating cheap clear sleeves with low
> quality. Dragonshield and Ultra Pro both put out a high quality clear
> sleeve. The Ultra Pro sleeves that are 100 for a dollar are obviously
> of poor quality.
I wouldn't say "obviously." They're okay for storage purposes, and for
cards that need protection from fingerprints and grease but won't be
rigorously shuffled. They're good to put on before you slide a card in
a hard top loader. You can fit about ten cards in one, which makes
them good for shipping and presenting as gifts.
Jason
HVKreiter
> price point on set of 102 is prohibitively expensive for me
Yea I know....I almost hated dropping that number as it seems high to
me too. A set of 12 for the Crypt cards would be easier for me to
produce too and I would sell those for about $4.99.
I think it was Ultra Pro that approached Drew Baker about his L5R
deckbackers. I *think* it's them that produces deck sleeves with
holographic images of his art on them.
Thanks anyway everyone, I appreciate the feedback =0)
Heather
devil_in_the_p...@yahoo.com
James Coupe
s.com>, HVKreiter <shamanso...@gmail.com> writes:
>Yea I know....I almost hated dropping that number as it seems high to
>me too. A set of 12 for the Crypt cards would be easier for me to
>produce too and I would sell those for about $4.99.
If it were me, I might look at 15 a pack. 15 is enough for pretty much
all standard crypts (a few go up to 13 or 14) with maybe a spare for
when the dog eats one. And 6 * 15 = 90 is easy for a player to buy for
a library.
HVKreiter
Heather
JH
12 backers for $4.99 sounds like a bargain. And to Heather, White Wolf
and players around: what if WW would publish a set of 15+100 VTES
sleeves (some extras for probable wear and tear) either as separate
product or in a similar set as the third edition player's kit? If they
would be published as a separate product how many pre-orders it would
require for such a publication be feasible?
HVKreiter
for it, if they'd like to put my art on actual deck sleeves =0). For
anyone on this forum, feel free to email me
(hea...@shamansoulstudios.com) if you'd like the 15 Crypt deck
backers for $4.99. I'm offering this price to you guys only, since
that's what I initially said and I don't like to go back on my word.
Anywhere else, I'll be selling them for $7.99/15 pack as that's a bit
more even with what I'm selling the L5R backers for.
Heather