The Akunanse Letters - Amavi
Wanderer's Counsel
The dead are not under the earth.
They are in the fire that is dying;
They are in the grasses that weep;
They are in the whimpering rocks;
They are in the forest; they are in the house.
The dead are not dead.
-Amavi, Akunanse
Amavi
Akunanse
8 capacity
Presence, Protean, superior Abombwe, superior Animalism, superior
Fortitude
+1 bleed
Laibon
Group 4
The Akunanse can pursue many strategies. Amavi is built to bring out
the best in our ability to bleed our prey out of the game. With all
three of the in-clan skills at superior and a built in +1 bleed, she
will be the focus of this first letter and the first deck. As the clan
does not possess any bleed disciplines across a wide range of vampires
(with only Amavi and Nkule Galadima having presence, and no Akunanse
having dominate), Computer Hacking will be our bleed action of
preference, with Force of Will being our only other bleed action
option. To suplement Computer Hacking, and to give the appearance of a
slower deck, bleed retainers and equipment will be added to give the
deck a long reach, and a powerful end game. There are a number of
permanent bleed options that must be considered when building the best
Akunanse bleed deck.
First is the retainer group:
J.S. Simmons, Esq.
Robert Carter
Tasha Morgan
The second is master card based:
Ancestor Spirit
Legendary Vampire
The third is equipment based:
Eye of Hazimel
Inveraray, Scotland
Kduva's Mask
Laptop Computer
Reliquary: Akunanse Remains
Seal of Veddartha
Stolen Police Cruiser
The last is action based:
Tier of Souls
Some of these will be removed based upon their large or repeating
costs. Robert Carter and Eye of Hazimel will not go in the primary
version of this deck. Their continuous costs are prohibitive in a deck
that is not dedicated to regaining blood and pool, and we will be
focusing on bleeding in this version.
Some of these will not go into the deck because of the extra actions
required to set them up. Stolen Police Cruiser and Inveraray, Scotland
will not appear in the first version of the deck inspite of our clans
facility with Fortitude and ability to Freak Drive.
Predator's Mastery is our only action modifier that can add to the
amount of our bleed. This card will make up a significant portion of
our deck. Predator's Transformation is our primary stealth card,
giving our actions 1 stealth when they are announced. It will be used
in moderation, as the block fails options of Predator's Mastery and
Devil-Channel: Throat will allow us bleed a little more responsibly,
when our prey has bleed bounce. The key to our bleeding responsibly
will be to delicately inform our grand-prey that they will need to keep
a vampire at least the age of our oldest vampire untapped or available
to block. This may not be possible for them, and we will take it into
consideration when playing the deck.
The Akunanse do not have access to pool regaining actions or actions
that put counters on
uncontrolled vampires. This will cause us to be very careful with our
pool, and we will avoid the nine and ten capacity vampires in the bleed
deck. We will drop Meno Ngari, as his inferior level of Abombwe will
not help us in our primary concern, bleeding, and our other vampires
will also be better defenders. This leaves us with 8 different
Akunanse vampires. We will have three copies of Amavi, because she is
the focus of this first deck, and we will duplicate Nkule Galadima and
Uchenna, as their capacity will work very well with our action modifer
block fails cards.
Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 18, Max: 32, Avg: 6.50)
----------------------------------------------
3 Amavi pre pro ABO ANI FOR 8, Akunanse:4
1 Dolie abo ani 3, Akunanse:4
1 Hasani for ABO 4, Akunanse:4
1 Jubal for pot ABO ANI 6, Akunanse:4
1 Kikiyaon abo ani FOR 5, Akunanse:4
2 Nkule Galadima ani aus pre ABO FOR 8, Akunanse:4, magaji
1 Sanjo abo chi ANI FOR 6, Akunanse:3
2 Uchenna ABO ANI FOR 7, Akunanse:4, magaji
Three of our distinct vampires are eligible targets for Legendary
Vampire out of the box, and Sanjo can also receive it if he gets
Abombwe as a trifle immediately before. This is a definite include.
All but 2 members of our crypt can be targetted by Ancestor Spirit, so
it is another definite. Three members of our crypt can benefit from
Abombwe, and the difference between basic and superior is significant
for the cards we are using, so we will add five copies to the deck to
ensure we get them early. As we plan to acquire permanent bleed
modifiers, a copy of Heidelburg Castle, Germany will need to make an
appearance so that we get the most bang for our actions. Pool gain /
regain will be an issue, so Blood Dolls and our Jungle Hunting Ground
will make appearances as well. As all of our vampires are Laibon,
Mbare Market, Harare will go in as well to help us for the long term.
We do not have access to bleed bounce, so 2 copies of Major Boon will
help defend our pool. Fame should always be on our prey's vampires and
not our own, so we will include one to contest or protect our vampires.
Master [20]
5x Abombwe
2x Ancestor Spirit
5x Blood Doll
1x Fame
1x Heidelberg Castle, Germany
1x Jungle Hunting Ground
2x Legendary Vampire
2x Major Boon
1x Mbare Market, Harare
For our actions, we will primarily be recruiting and equipping, but we
will have 4 Computer Hacking and 2 Force of Will to improve our bleed
performance. We will include 4 rush actions to help keep minions that
might bounce our bleeds empty and out of our way. We would like to
include Sense Death, as it is at stealth, and requires Animalism, but
the younger vampire restriction is likely to trip us up when our
largest vampires are the ones we want taking the bleed actions. We
will avoid Tier of Souls in the first build, as we do not want to
defend it.
Action [10]
4x Computer Hacking
2x Force of Will
4x Bum's Rush
We will have one of each of the increased bleed retainers. We will
also put in 4 copies of Raven Spy to help build our defense.
Retainer [6]
1x J.S. Simmons, Esq.
1x Tasha Morgan
4x Raven Spy
We will start with one of each of the most appropriate equipment cards,
and avoid duplication. This will enable us to get the most out of each
piece of equipment when we transfer it around with Heidelburg Castle.
Equipment [4]
1x Kduva's Mask
1x Laptop Computer
1x Reliquary: Akunanse Remains
1x Seal of Veddartha
For action modifiers, we will want stealth, unblockability, and plus
bleed.
Action Modifier [20]
4x Devil-Channel: Throat
4x Freak Drive
7x Predator's Mastery
4x Predator's Transformation
1x Strange Day
At this point, we have dedicated 60 cards to our primary strategy. The
remaining thirty cards will be devoted to keeping us in the game long
enough to let our strategy work. Carrion Crows and Invoking the Beast
have wonderful symmetry. When these two are combined with a few
Devil-Channel: Hands, our combat package will be complete.
Combat [15]
5x Carrion Crows
3x Devil-Channel: Hands
5x Invoking the Beast
2x Skin of Steel
Our remaining fifteen cards will go to untap and intercept cards for
our defense. Predator's
Communion fills both needs well, and we will supplement it with Cats'
Guidance. Terra Incognita will complete our bleed and bleed bounce
defense.
Reaction [15]
8x Predator's Communion
4x Cats' Guidance
3x Terra Incognita
Future letters will explore other strategies open to the Akunanse, and
this letter will close with a recap of the deck all in one place.
Deck Name : Amavi Shakes Her Money Maker
Author : Wanderer's Counsel
Description : Akunanse Letters - Amavi
Crypt [12 vampires] (Min: 18, Max: 32, Avg: 6.50)
------------------------------------------------------------
3x Amavi 8 ABO ANI FOR pre pro Akunanse:4
2x Nkule Galadima 8 ABO FOR ani aus pre magaji Akunanse:4
2x Uchenna 7 ABO ANI FOR magaji Akunanse:4
1x Jubal 6 ABO ANI for pot Akunanse:4
1x Sanjo 6 ANI FOR abo chi Akunanse:3
1x Kikiyaon, The 5 FOR abo ani Akunanse:4
1x Hasani 4 ABO for Akunanse:4
1x Dolie 3 abo ani Akunanse:4
Library [90 cards]
------------------------------------------------------------
Action [10]
4x Bum's Rush
4x Computer Hacking
2x Force of Will
Action Modifier [16]
4x Devil-Channel: Throat
4x Freak Drive
7x Predator's Mastery
1x Strange Day
Action Modifier/Combat [4]
4x Predator's Transformation
Combat [15]
5x Carrion Crows
3x Devil-Channel: Hands
5x Invoking the Beast
2x Skin of Steel
Equipment [4]
1x Kduva's Mask
1x Laptop Computer
1x Reliquary: Akunanse Remains
1x Seal of Veddartha
Master [20]
5x Abombwe
2x Ancestor Spirit
5x Blood Doll
1x Fame
1x Heidelberg Castle, Germany
1x Jungle Hunting Ground
2x Legendary Vampire
2x Major Boon
1x Mbare Market, Harare
Reaction [15]
4x Cats' Guidance
8x Predator's Communion
3x Terra Incognita
Retainer [6]
1x J. S. Simmons, Esq.
4x Raven Spy
1x Tasha Morgan
stinkycat
> The Akunanse do not have access to pool regaining actions or actions
> that put counters on
> uncontrolled vampires.
They do but it requires a Magaji, it's called Belonging Grants
Protection.
There's also the master card Mbare Market, Harare that adds a counter
to an uncontrolled laibon.
We will drop Meno Ngari, as his inferior level of Abombwe will
> not help us in our primary concern, bleeding, and our other vampires
> will also be better defenders.
Meno is actually a good early bleeder. If you're using Computer
Hacking, he can bleed for 3 pool at +1 stealth by using Predator's
Mastery and Predator's Transformation.
He can help rescue your vamps from torpor, and is an excellent chump
(expendable) blocker =)
I would put 1 copy of him in your crypt. (he can even do your recuit
actions and then just transfer them later using heidelburg)
CthuluKitty
steps of deck design piece by piece. Some more general strategy
discussion might do well in future Letters. Do you intend to or have
you already registered this project as the VEKN Akunanse newsletter?
> Three of our distinct vampires are eligible targets for Legendary
> Vampire out of the box, and Sanjo can also receive it if he gets
> Abombwe as a trifle immediately before. This is a definite include.
I used to really like Legendary Vampire, but it's been years since I've
played with it. In my view, the 2 pool cost and strict timing
requirement make this card less than awesome.
> All but 2 members of our crypt can be targetted by Ancestor Spirit, so
> it is another definite.
This is much better. If it weren't unique I'd recommend that you ditch
the LV for another copy.
>Three members of our crypt can benefit from
> Abombwe, and the difference between basic and superior is significant
> for the cards we are using, so we will add five copies to the deck to
> ensure we get them early.
5 might be too many, and you might clog on them later in the game. The
fact that they're trifles is great, but if there are no legal targets
for them they'll stick. I think 3-4 is a more appropriate number.
>As we plan to acquire permanent bleed
> modifiers, a copy of Heidelburg Castle, Germany will need to make an
> appearance so that we get the most bang for our actions. Pool gain /
> regain will be an issue, so Blood Dolls and our Jungle Hunting Ground
> will make appearances as well. As all of our vampires are Laibon,
> Mbare Market, Harare will go in as well to help us for the long term.
> We do not have access to bleed bounce, so 2 copies of Major Boon will
> help defend our pool. Fame should always be on our prey's vampires and
> not our own, so we will include one to contest or protect our vampires.
All of this sounds good to me.
> Master [20]
> 5x Abombwe
> 2x Ancestor Spirit
> 5x Blood Doll
> 1x Fame
> 1x Heidelberg Castle, Germany
> 1x Jungle Hunting Ground
> 2x Legendary Vampire
> 2x Major Boon
> 1x Mbare Market, Harare
2 copies of those unique masters is a bit sketchy I think. It looks
like you might be rather master-heavy anyhow, so just taking them out
for other card types isn't a bad idea.
> Action [10]
> 4x Computer Hacking
> 2x Force of Will
> 4x Bum's Rush
This looks good for the most part. Given your combat package, Harass
might be better than Bum's Rush (presses are very helpful for you).
Its targetting restrictions tend to become pretty negligible as the
game wears on.
> We will have one of each of the increased bleed retainers. We will
> also put in 4 copies of Raven Spy to help build our defense.
Always a good idea when you've got ani kicking around.
> Equipment [4]
> 1x Kduva's Mask
> 1x Laptop Computer
> 1x Reliquary: Akunanse Remains
> 1x Seal of Veddartha
All of these are good. You might even get some use out the FOR that
SoV eventually provides (though not if you Heidelburg it around).
> For action modifiers, we will want stealth, unblockability, and plus
> bleed.
>
> Action Modifier [20]
> 4x Devil-Channel: Throat
> 4x Freak Drive
> 7x Predator's Mastery
> 4x Predator's Transformation
> 1x Strange Day
This looks pretty good, though it might be too many AMs for the deck.
> At this point, we have dedicated 60 cards to our primary strategy. The
> remaining thirty cards will be devoted to keeping us in the game long
> enough to let our strategy work. Carrion Crows and Invoking the Beast
> have wonderful symmetry. When these two are combined with a few
> Devil-Channel: Hands, our combat package will be complete.
Hmmm...the more deck lists I see online the more I wonder if I live in
a weird alternate reality. If you like, you can take my comments here
as indicative of my personal taste and metagame considerations:
> Combat [15]
> 5x Carrion Crows
> 3x Devil-Channel: Hands
> 5x Invoking the Beast
> 2x Skin of Steel
This seems like an absurdly small number of combat cards for this deck,
and it lacks most profoundly in what is probably the most
important--damage prevention. If I were building this deck I would
find room for about twice as many red cards. What you have here is a
good start, so I'd add Indomitability (lots), Drawing out the Beast,
and DC: Back, just to name what comes to me off hand. 15 just doesn't
look like enough with the amount of blocking you're prepared for, let
alone including 4 rush cards.
> Reaction [15]
> 8x Predator's Communion
> 4x Cats' Guidance
> 3x Terra Incognita
These are good reactions, but I think 8xPC is too many. You can't use
it for both untap and intercept in the same action, so I think it would
be better to diversify a bit. Perhaps 4xPC, 2xForced/Wake,
2xInstinctive Reaction?
So yeah...all in all I liked this newsletter, and I think you have the
start of a good deck here. Since you're already talking in terms of
gearing up and gritting your teeth for a nasty endgame, you might find
it worthwhile to move further in that direction. This would would mean
more combat, as I already suggested, and the possible inclusion of some
Resorations and/or Ablative Skins to keep your vampires healthy for the
long haul. Unfortunately, you might have to cut some of your bleed
package to do this. Then again, if you were looking to make a good
bleed deck you'd be writing about the Malkavians, right?
Jesse
Wanderer's Counsel
> > The Akunanse do not have access to pool regaining actions or actions
> > that put counters on uncontrolled vampires.
> They do but it requires a Magaji, it's called Belonging Grants
> Protection.
> There's also the master card Mbare Market, Harare that adds a counter
> to an uncontrolled laibon.
Master cards are not actions.
Mbare Market, Harare is already included in the deck.
Belonging Grants Protection will appear in the Magaji focused deck.
Wanderer's Counsel
>> 8x Predator's Communion
>> 4x Cats' Guidance
>> 3x Terra Incognita
>These are good reactions, but I think 8xPC is too many. You can't use
>it for both untap and intercept in the same action, so I think it would
>be better to diversify a bit. Perhaps 4xPC, 2xForced/Wake,
>2xInstinctive Reaction?
I plan on leaving the first vampire with a Raven Spy pretty much
untapped for the rest of the game. The first block it has to make will
tap it, and then the Cat's Guidance or Predator's Communion will untap
it for the next block.
Stopping the actions is important. Damaging my predator's minions is
less so. Combat ends is particularly prevalent currently, (with the
influx of all the new presence clans, Guruhi and Ishtarri) so
additional combat will be more important later on than it is now. The
deck is expected to change and mature as the playgroup adjusts.
brokenstep
> Stopping the actions is important. Damaging my predator's minions is
> less so. Combat ends is particularly prevalent currently, (with the
> influx of all the new presence clans, Guruhi and Ishtarri) so
> additional combat will be more important later on than it is now. The
> deck is expected to change and mature as the playgroup adjusts.
I have had second thoughts about playing Ishtarri in the "strike: combat
ends" mindset sort of present in the starter.
with celerity and fortitude they should be able to survive adequately with
simple damage prevention, stutter steps, guns and additional strikes, so on.
really they are better fighters than Toreador so as long as you can get some
intercept (rooftop shadow maybe, news radio type things) they might be
better suited for gun deck than toreador are.
CthuluKitty
>untapped for the rest of the game. The first block it has to make will
>tap it, and then the Cat's Guidance or Predator's Communion will untap
>it for the next block.
Does noone ever get more than +1 stealth? Various wake cards would do
just as well for this purpose, and the diversity would allow you to
play multiple reactions when necessary.
>Stopping the actions is important. Damaging my predator's minions is
>less so. Combat ends is particularly prevalent currently, (with the
>influx of all the new presence clans, Guruhi and Ishtarri) so
>additional combat will be more important later on than it is now. The
>deck is expected to change and mature as the playgroup adjusts.
Alright. That's a pretty good justification for the size of your
combat package. When I suggested more combat it was less with the
intent of wasting enemy minions and more pointed in the direction of
surviving against real combat decks. If no such decks are present in
the metagame I suppose there's no reason to worry.
The Lasombra
wrote:
>>I plan on leaving the first vampire with a Raven Spy pretty much
>>untapped for the rest of the game. The first block it has to make will
>>tap it, and then the Cat's Guidance or Predator's Communion will untap
>>it for the next block.
>Does noone ever get more than +1 stealth?
Nope, never.
Of course they do, that's why the untap cards chosen also give
intercept.
>Various wake cards would do just as well for this purpose, and the diversity would allow you to
>play multiple reactions when necessary.
No, they wouldn't.
See also: Ahrimanes.
CthuluKitty
>>play multiple reactions when necessary.
>No, they wouldn't.
>See also: Ahrimanes.
They wouldn't what? Note that when I said they would work just as
well, the purpose I was referring to was the limited case of untapping
and blocking with the inherent +1 intercept of a Raven Spy. I wasn't
arguing against using these cards at all; I just think a more
diversified selection of reactions would help. Currently, I use 2 or 3
copies of Instinctive Reaction, alongside a larger number of Cats, in
animalism decks that want to block because the possibility of stacking
one more intercept is often very useful (also, minions with only basic
ani can get intercept, which will often catch people off guard if
they're planning to get around Cats). My point is that you can use
Predator's Communion to untap, and IR for intercept or use Forced
Awakening to "untap" and PC for intercept. You can't use 2xPC for wake
and intercept. Disciplineless wakes are also, well, disciplineless,
and they can come from anywhere.
The Lasombra
wrote:
>Currently, I use 2 or 3
>copies of Instinctive Reaction, alongside a larger number of Cats, in
>animalism decks that want to block
The deck described does not want to block.
It wants to discourage its predator from taking actions.
An untapped vampire with a Raven Spy is remarkably convenient for
doing that. It will block a few times, but the point of the deck is
bleeding.
CthuluKitty
> It wants to discourage its predator from taking actions.
>
> An untapped vampire with a Raven Spy is remarkably convenient for
> doing that. It will block a few times, but the point of the deck is
> bleeding.
I didn't mean that blocking was the point of the deck, but obviously it
does want/need to block, especially since it lacks bounce and any
appreciable amount of bloat. If it were only trying to discourage its
predator via untapped vampires with Raven Spy, why would Predator's
Communion be in the deck at all? And what kind of predator is this
going to actively discourage? Heavy stealth? Not likely. Bruise/rush
combat? Again, not likely (unless you can pretend that you have the
kind of heavy combat package one might expect from the Akunanse, but
that won't last long). Weenies/Untap/Swarm? Well, yeah ok. All the
untap should do pretty well against those types of offenses.
The "doesn't want to block" line is meaningless semantics. The deck
contains 15 reaction cards. 8 of them are Predator's Communion. For
the reasons outlined previously, I personally would prefer a greater
diversity within those 8 cards (such as a 4/2/2 or 6/1/1 split). I'm
sure there are good arguments for not doing it that way, but points
about what the deck "wants" to do are irrelevant when the question is
between an equal number of very similar cards.
Wanderer's Counsel
CthuluKitty wrote:
> I didn't mean that blocking was the point of the deck, but obviously it
> does want/need to block, especially since it lacks bounce and any
> appreciable amount of bloat. If it were only trying to discourage its
> predator via untapped vampires with Raven Spy, why would Predator's
> Communion be in the deck at all?
To enable that first round of block like activity.
To enable more than one block attempt.
To give the appearance of a different deck.
> And what kind of predator is this going to actively discourage?
Ventrue Law Firm.
Weenie anything.
Any vote without additional stealth.
'don't block my blood doll hunting and I won't bleed you this turn'
Toreador antitribu Palla Grande / Foundation Exhibit.
Heavy stealth is meaningless to attempt to block. Offense always wins.
> The "doesn't want to block" line is meaningless semantics.
So is your entire commentary.
Build the deck.
Play it.
Then come back with some real appreciation for what could be changed or
improved.
> The deck contains 15 reaction cards. 8 of them are Predator's Communion. For
> the reasons outlined previously, I personally would prefer a greater
> diversity within those 8 cards (such as a 4/2/2 or 6/1/1 split).
One copy of a card in a deck ensures you will not see it in time to use
it.
I see no reason to include 1 copy of any non-unique card, and most
unique cards that are essential to your strategy should be duplicated.
> I'm sure there are good arguments for not doing it that way, but points
> about what the deck "wants" to do are irrelevant when the question is
> between an equal number of very similar cards.
Did you have a point?
The cards are not similar.
Untap cards that are not Predator's Communion cannot double as
intercept for the Abombwe clan.
Wait for the Jubal letter when you will see what the Akunanse can do
with Intercept as a strategy. The intercept and untap in the Amavi
deck are there to toolbox it up and to keep it from looking as
dangerous as it actually is.
CthuluKitty
> > predator via untapped vampires with Raven Spy, why would Predator's
> > Communion be in the deck at all?
>
> To enable that first round of block like activity.
> To enable more than one block attempt.
> To give the appearance of a different deck.
None of these things fall into the "only..." category that the Lasombra
suggested. They're all good reasons for the card of course, and it's
an all-round great card. That doesn't mean a diversification of
reactions wouldn't or couldn't help.
> > And what kind of predator is this going to actively discourage?
>
> Ventrue Law Firm.
> Weenie anything.
> Any vote without additional stealth.
> 'don't block my blood doll hunting and I won't bleed you this turn'
> Toreador antitribu Palla Grande / Foundation Exhibit.
Agreed. That's pretty much exactly the conclusion I posted (if you
include Ventrue Law Firm/low-stealth vote in the "untap" category,
which seems reasonable).
> Heavy stealth is meaningless to attempt to block. Offense always wins.
Oh. That must be why Jay Kristoff's Sabbatspex took the EC by storm.
> > The "doesn't want to block" line is meaningless semantics.
>
> So is your entire commentary.
> Build the deck.
> Play it.
> Then come back with some real appreciation for what could be changed or
> improved.
This level of nastiness is just unwarranted. I responded to your post
very positively, and only got a bit snappish when Jeff dismissed my
comments off hand, and presented lines of argument that did not address
what I was saying at all. Though I might like to, I'm not going to
build and play this deck because:
a) I don't have all the cards.
b) I play a limited number of games and I have my own decks to play and
improve.
c) Even if I did, it wouldn't help the discussion because our metagames
and playstyles are so vastly different. My guess is that I would
probably end up saying exactly what I already did, though probably with
greater specificity.
If you don't welcome comments on your decks, why post them on the
internet? You can't expect everyone who reads the post to go try the
deck. And again, my comments were primarily positive, so what's the
big deal?
> One copy of a card in a deck ensures you will not see it in time to use
> it.
> I see no reason to include 1 copy of any non-unique card, and most
> unique cards that are essential to your strategy should be duplicated.
I simply don't agree with you here. One copy of a conditionally useful
card can save your game if you hold it for the right moment. For
example, in a recent game I held onto a Rapid Healing (the only copy in
the deck) for what might have been up to 5 turns, and I literally could
not have won without it. More than one in the deck would likely be
excessive, and I would probably end up discarding one of them. It's
also frequently very useful to have small numbers of cards your
opponent might not see coming. Being too predictable can get you in
trouble.
The real question at hand is whether by diversifying as I've suggested
you would be more likely to:
a) Have a wake/IR in hand when you need the opposite reactive effect;
or
b) Come across a situation where you can use 2 reaction cards to wake
and gain additional intercept.
It's ultimately rather difficult to settle this kind of calculation,
and it's going to be dependent on metagame and play style. If you're
willing/able to sit on cards until the right time, the latter option
becomes much more viable, but if you're forced to play cards as fast as
possible it becomes harder to pull off.
> Did you have a point?
>
> The cards are not similar.
>
> Untap cards that are not Predator's Communion cannot double as
> intercept for the Abombwe clan.
The cards are similar in that they share half of their effect with
eachother. You're only going to use each Predator's Communion for one
of its two effects, not both. If you manage your hand well you may be
able to mitigate the disadvantage (less flexibility) while maximizing
the advantage (stackabillity). You might even find yourself in a
situation where IR's incidental maneuver helps you, or where PC won't
help because your opponents are acting with allies.
> Wait for the Jubal letter when you will see what the Akunanse can do
> with Intercept as a strategy. The intercept and untap in the Amavi
> deck are there to toolbox it up and to keep it from looking as
> dangerous as it actually is.
I look forward to it. Like I said, I really enjoyed the newsletter.
If I hadn't, I wouldn't have replied. Unfortunately, the way you've
responded makes me wonder if you actually want people to engage with
what you're writing.
tigernat1
prevent both the main minion's strike and the winged second's strike?
Or does 1 Rolling with the Punches at Superior prevent both strikes?
I am really questioning how the two phrases "treeat this as a strike
from AN opposing minion" and "prevent all damage from THE opposing
minion's strikes" interact.
relevent card text:
Winged Second
FLIGHT] Only usable when another minion you control enters combat with
a minion without flight. Tap this minion. In that combat, this minion
may make a hand or melee weapon strike (with or without a strike card)
on the opposing minion during normal strike resolution (as if at close
range). Dodge will avoid this strike, and damage prevention effects can
treat this as a strike from an opposing minion. This minion may be the
target of effects that inflict damage or steal blood as a retainer
could be.
Rolling with the Punches
This vampire burns 1 blood to prevent all damage from the opposing
minion's strikes this round of combat
thanks, gNat
Wanderer's Counsel
> > Heavy stealth is meaningless to attempt to block. Offense always wins.
> Oh. That must be why Jay Kristoff's Sabbatspex took the EC by storm.
Do you understand the difference between his dedicated intercept deck
and this bleed deck that we are discussing in this letter and thread?
Please notice of the focus of the responses by Lasombra and myself.
All about this deck.
Not about the game, not about your personality, about this deck.
> If you don't welcome comments on your decks, why post them on the
> internet?
I do welcome comments on the deck.
I don't welcome comments that say build a completely different deck
when the article was intended to address how this deck that bleeds as
it only means of ousting its prey should be built.
> You can't expect everyone who reads the post to go try the
> deck. And again, my comments were primarily positive, so what's the
> big deal?
Where do you see a big deal?
> > One copy of a card in a deck ensures you will not see it in time to use
> > it.
> > I see no reason to include 1 copy of any non-unique card, and most
> > unique cards that are essential to your strategy should be duplicated.
> I simply don't agree with you here.
Not a problem.
My experience does not match yours.
> The real question at hand is whether by diversifying as I've suggested
> you would be more likely to:
> a) Have a wake/IR in hand when you need the opposite reactive effect;
> or
> b) Come across a situation where you can use 2 reaction cards to wake
> and gain additional intercept.
Adding wakes to this deck removes strategy decisions that you can make
during play.
If you see a need to keep multiple minions untapped and expect them to
gain intercept, you can do so with Predator's Communion in hand.
You cannot make that strategic decision with a Wake in hand.
Best expected results for the deck, 1 vampire with 2 Raven Spy
retainers untapped at the end of your turn to discourage your predator
from actions they are not positive they can succeed on. More intercept
than that requires a different deck and a different play style. This
deck is meant to go forward, as hard and as fast as it can, while
gaining permanent effects that speed up its momentum as players are
removed.
> It's ultimately rather difficult to settle this kind of calculation,
> and it's going to be dependent on metagame and play style. If you're
> willing/able to sit on cards until the right time, the latter option
> becomes much more viable, but if you're forced to play cards as fast as
> possible it becomes harder to pull off.
I am not willing to sit on cards until the right time in this deck.
This decks best bet for staying in the game long enough to win is to
gain 6 pool by ousting its prey. Holding an Instinctive Reaction or
Wake is not going to help that.
One to two intercept from the permanent Raven Spy will be sufficient
for what this deck wants to do.
LSJ
> Does a minion need to play 2 Rolling with the Punches at superior to
> prevent both the main minion's strike and the winged second's strike?
Yes.
> Or does 1 Rolling with the Punches at Superior prevent both strikes?
No. RwP only prevents the damage from one minion's strikes.
floppyz...@netscape.net
It's easy, if you listen carefully.
17 Amavi 8 ABO ANI FOR pre pro Akunase +1 Bleed
Master
3 Dreams of the Sphinx
Action
10 Embrace
10 Dual Form
10 Force of Will
Action Modifier
18 Freak Drive
10 Daring the Dawn
10 Aire of Ellation
Equipment
10 Reliquary: Akunase Remains
7 Soul Gem of Etrius
Combat
2 Form of Mist
Some choices are not optimal. The other way of playing it is
[Lameth's version]
14x Amavi 8 ABO ANI FOR pre pro Akunanse:4
Action [24]
14x Dual Form
10x Force of Will
Action Modifier [40]
10x Aire of Elation
10x Daring the Dawn
6x Day Operation
14x Freak Drive
Equipment [18]
10x Reliquary: Akunanse Remains
8x Soul Gem of Etrius
Master [4]
4x Dreams of the Sphinx
It's easy.
Amavi finds a gem. It belonged to an old guy. Etrius, some call him.
She, excited, continues her searches, and finds some ancient artifact,
a reliquary.
She's so excited, she decides to have children.
But her end seems close, and she decides to die in a final blow,
calling her twin sister Amavi to come.
In Lameth's version, you loose blood by becoming Anarch.
For my version, here's the blood countdown:
Dual Form : 6 blood left
Equip Reliquary: 6 blood left
Freak Drive: 5 blood left
Embrace: 3 blood left
Force of will 2 blood left + 1 aggravated damage
Aire of Elation 1 blood left + 1 aggravaated damage.
Daring the dawn : 1 blood left + 3 aggravated damage.
So she burns, and a new one, with the same Soul Gem, come into play.
Form of Myst are against Carter.
The Lasombra
>It's easy.
>Amavi finds a gem. It belonged to an old guy. Etrius, some call him.
>She, excited, continues her searches, and finds some ancient artifact,
>a reliquary.
>She's so excited, she decides to have children.
>But her end seems close, and she decides to die in a final blow,
>calling her twin sister Amavi to come.
>In Lameth's version, you loose blood by becoming Anarch.
>For my version, here's the blood countdown:
>Dual Form : 6 blood left
The Dual Form vampire will burn when Amavi burns.
Consider Devil-Channel: Throat and Those Who Endure Judge as alternate
blood removing cards that can be played on any of the actions Amavi's
takes. Also consider Neutral Guard and Earth Control for those last
minute blood removal necessities.
floppyz...@netscape.net
play.
Dual Forms makes her
- untap
- burn 2 blood (necessary)
- able to untap once again this turn.
Devil Channel: Throat is a good idea, but it requires a block attempt.
Those who endure Judge, Neutral Guard is not a that interesting,
because it won't make a blocker think again about it.
I don't think this deck really needs an Earth control. If Carter tries
to block you, he will. But he'll only catch you once.
All you have to know is that, once the first turn of the turbo is
shown, every one knows which card you'll play after each of your cards.
And, even worse, they all know wich card you HAVE to play after any
card. So they know what to do, and what not to do. Including Those who
endure jduge is a way of adding a problem to the deck : if your prey
denies any block, maybe he'll die. But you'll have a hand full of
DCT... And no way to use them.
Adding cards to the deck will slow it down. I can remove the Dual Forms
and choose the Lameth's version. But i've allways thought that be able
to untap at any moment - even when blocked, at the end of the combat -
is a great thing.
CthuluKitty
> and this bleed deck that we are discussing in this letter and thread?
Of course I understand the difference, but the text I responded didn't
make the distinction at all. It just said "offense always wins".
> I do welcome comments on the deck.
>
> I don't welcome comments that say build a completely different deck
> when the article was intended to address how this deck that bleeds as
> it only means of ousting its prey should be built.
We're talking about 2-4 cards here. I hardly see how that constitutes
building a completely different deck.
--snip--
> I am not willing to sit on cards until the right time in this deck.
> This decks best bet for staying in the game long enough to win is to
> gain 6 pool by ousting its prey. Holding an Instinctive Reaction or
> Wake is not going to help that.
>
> One to two intercept from the permanent Raven Spy will be sufficient
> for what this deck wants to do.
If you think that will work then go for it. The main thing I would
worry about is the possibility that even with this much focus, the deck
just won't be fast enough to accomplish this goal, especially with the
emphasis on gearing up. If that turns out to be totally off base then
you can ignore my suggestions. If you do have this kind of problem,
one available option is going more in the direction of a
fighty/toolboxy/bleedy strategy--a direction the deck alright points
in. If you decide to do that, then my comments might be useful. If
not, that's fine too.
What gets on my nerves is when responses take the general shape of "no,
you're wrong" with very little apparent consideration of what I
actually said, and that's how several of those posts in this thread
looked to me.
CthuluKitty
> and this bleed deck that we are discussing in this letter and thread?
Of course I understand the difference, but the text I responded didn't
make the distinction at all. It just said "offense always wins".
> I do welcome comments on the deck.
>
> I don't welcome comments that say build a completely different deck
> when the article was intended to address how this deck that bleeds as
> it only means of ousting its prey should be built.
We're talking about 2-4 cards here. I hardly see how that constitutes
building a completely different deck.
--snip--
> I am not willing to sit on cards until the right time in this deck.
> This decks best bet for staying in the game long enough to win is to
> gain 6 pool by ousting its prey. Holding an Instinctive Reaction or
> Wake is not going to help that.
>
> One to two intercept from the permanent Raven Spy will be sufficient
> for what this deck wants to do.
If you think that will work then go for it. The main thing I would
Loadquo
>
> In Lameth's version, you loose blood by becoming Anarch.
> For my version, here's the blood countdown:
>
> Dual Form : 6 blood left
> Equip Reliquary: 6 blood left
> Freak Drive: 5 blood left
> Embrace: 3 blood left
> Force of will 2 blood left + 1 aggravated damage
> Aire of Elation 1 blood left + 1 aggravaated damage.
> Daring the dawn : 1 blood left + 3 aggravated damage.
>
> So she burns, and a new one, with the same Soul Gem, come into play.
> Form of Myst are against Carter.
I had a simpler Turbo ideas for Nkule Galadima and The Eldest Command
Undeath.... without the progeny/protean angle
So it would be
Equip Reliquary: 8 blood left -1 pool
Freak Drive: 7 blood left
The Eldest Command Undeath: 0 Blood left and One of your preys vamps 6
or under burnt
Bribes: +1 pool canceling out the Reliquary Cost enabling proper
infinite Turboness
Force of will at Inf 0 blood left + 2 aggravated damage
This is minimum combo I could think of to be infinite, add some tension
in the ranks or + bleed for more damage. The bribes isn't ideal as it
will allow everyone else with Titled Vampires to gain pool as well. The
lack of superior presence hampers pool gain...
Another possibility for pool gain is belonging grants protection. Less
than ideal, because it is another action so another freak drive needed
and requires you to have a transfer phase in which to actually gain
pool.
Nkule also sets up the second vote as when you sucessfully bleed the
first time you can burn the Edge on the second iteration to gain 3
votes.
It is worth noting that you shouldn't burn your preys last vampire
below 6, by voting against with Nkule or the edge (if you can?, can't
check the rules at the moment), so that there is still a valid target
for the vote.
If anyone builds this sort of deck I would be interested in how it
goes. I don't have the cards and I am really focussing on the Ishtarri
at the moment.
The Lasombra
>This is minimum combo I could think of to be infinite, add some tension
>in the ranks or + bleed for more damage.
Tension in the Ranks destroys turbo decks as you are constantly
burning a controlled vampire.
I would recommend not including Tension in the Ranks.
Loadquo
> burning a controlled vampire.
> I would recommend not including Tension in the Ranks.
Hmm, my n00bness is showing. I hadn't thought that far ahead... thanks
for the catch.
Fabio 'Sooner' Macedo
Loadquo escreveu:
> I had a simpler Turbo ideas for Nkule Galadima and The Eldest Command
> Undeath.... without the progeny/protean angle
> So it would be
> Equip Reliquary: 8 blood left -1 pool
> Freak Drive: 7 blood left
> The Eldest Command Undeath: 0 Blood left and One of your preys vamps 6
> or under burnt
> Bribes: +1 pool canceling out the Reliquary Cost enabling proper
> infinite Turboness
> Force of will at Inf 0 blood left + 2 aggravated damage
Force of Will costs a blood. Not a big problem, you'd just have to low
down your vampire burnination range to 5-caps.
And how will you pass the vote with an Akunanse deck? As far as I
recall, they have only two Magajis and inferior Presence (unless you
use Ugadja, since he's a undercover Akunanse inbetween the Guruhi
anyway). Bribes doesn't seem to be a good plan when you're calling a
vote that burns vampires, unless your grandprey has a lot of votes also
and you choose the "right" vampire to burn.
I still think the best ways to "abuse" (with all due quoting) are...
- Giant's Blood, The Coven, Perfectionist and a plethora of other
effects to avoid hunting next turn (Perfectionist is better, since you
can Force of Will immediately if you have [for])
- Mata Hari with an Ankara Citadel and then Freak Drive + Concert Tour
- Una goes Laibon and then calls it, Freak Drives for free, hunts for 3
with Excellent Thirst, Freak Drives for free, calls a Restoration,
Freak Drives for free... You get the idea
best,
Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
Loadquo
>down your vampire burnination range to 5-caps.
Another flaw in my plan... dammit. It might be worth spinkling in a few
daring the dawns, so you can TECU them and burn after to burn the
larger vampires. If there is some blood gain actions in there you could
burn an 7-cap or below.
So this set of actions would be
Equip Reliquary: 8 blood left -1 pool (Now a 9 cap)
Freak Drive: 7 blood left
Gain 2 blood some how: 9 blood
Freak Drive: 8 blood
The Eldest Command Undeath: 0
+ Act mod Bribes: +1 pool
Daring the Dawn +2 Agg damage
Don't get the edge for the next iteration, but it may be worth it to
get rid of a large voter.
>And how will you pass the vote with an Akunanse deck? As far as I
>recall, they have only two Magajis and inferior Presence (unless you
>use Ugadja, since he's a undercover Akunanse inbetween the Guruhi
>anyway). Bribes doesn't seem to be a good plan when you're calling a
>vote that burns vampires, unless your grandprey has a lot of votes also
>and you choose the "right" vampire to burn.
The one I was thinking of using was
Nkule Galadima 8 ABO FOR ani aus pre magaji Akunanse:4
Laibon magaji: Lasombra cannot cast votes in referendums called by
Nkule (including in the prisci sub-referendum). While he is ready, if
you burn the Edge for a vote, you gain an additional 2 votes.
It has to be proper Akunanse because of the reliquary.
Reliquary: Akunanse Remains
Type: Equipment
Requires: Akunanse
Cost: 1 pool
Unique equipment.
During your untap phase, choose Abombwe [abo], Animalism [ani], or
Fortitude [for]. Until your next untap phase, the Akunanse with this
equipment has an additional level of the chosen Discipline. The
Akunanse with this equipment gets +1 bleed and gains 1 capacity: he or
she is one generation older.
Else I would have had Ugadja for his large Cap burniness potential. I
don't fancy adding in clan impersonates in...
Bribes was simply in there to offset the pool cost of the reliquary,
giving a pool to yourself, else you are bleeding yourself for one every
time you equip with it. Which is hopefully many times in a turn....
We could use new Akunanse tech to pass the vote, such as Wanderer's
Counsel. Gives an extra vote or could be used to get an extra blood in
a hunt pre Commanding undeath, bringing burnination back up to 6 caps.
Or Bewitching Orations. As I mentioned second vamp TECUs should be
easyish with 6 votes if you burn the edge, without action modifiers.
> I still think the best ways to "abuse" (with all due quoting) are...
> - Giant's Blood, The Coven, Perfectionist and a plethora of other
> effects to avoid hunting next turn (Perfectionist is better, since you
> can Force of Will immediately if you have [for])
I am a little confused.... The point of the deck, like the one I
replied to was to have the vampire burn, to bring out a new one with
the Soul Gem. So next turn doesn't matter so much.
> - Mata Hari with an Ankara Citadel and then Freak Drive + Concert Tour
This does sound like a fine plan. She has the OBF to get the first
action through as well.
> - Una goes Laibon and then calls it, Freak Drives for free, hunts for 3
> with Excellent Thirst, Freak Drives for free, calls a Restoration,
> Freak Drives for free... You get the idea
I shall beware Una going laibon from now on :)
antero
Loadquo wrote:
>
> > - Una goes Laibon and then calls it, Freak Drives for free, hunts for 3
> > with Excellent Thirst, Freak Drives for free, calls a Restoration,
> > Freak Drives for free... You get the idea
>
> I shall beware Una going laibon from now on :)
That's easy. Just bring your no Secrets+Concealed .44 deck and see how
many +1 stealth actions Una can do.
It just seems to me that No Secrets was made against Una or some other
multiaction,
-Antero
quetzalcoatl
Most weenie decks rely on +1 stealth swarming, No Secrets lets the one
vampire block like crazy.
D
quetzalcoatl
Wanderer's Counsel
> Amavi only has inferior protean, so there's no new Dual Form coming in play.
> Dual Forms makes her
> - untap
> - burn 2 blood (necessary)
> - able to untap once again this turn.
Aside from the inability to beg, borrow, or steal 10 copies of one of
the most wanted rares from Kindred Most Wanted, the Turbo player on a
budget can try this version, with rares from Jyhad/VTES/Camarilla and
Legacies of Blood required.
Deck Name : Turbo Amavi
Author : Wanderer's Counsel
Description : A variant of Turbo Arika / Turbo Lucita using Amavi.
Crypt [14 vampires] Capacity min: 8 max: 8 average: 8
------------------------------------------------------------
14x Amavi 8 ABO ANI FOR pre pro Akunanse:4
Library [90 cards]
------------------------------------------------------------
Action [20]
10x Embrace, The
10x Force of Will
The Embraces serve a multiple functions.
1) Remove two blood from Amavi.
2) Diablerize her if something horrible happens during your Turbo turn.
3) Serve as an end-game swarm with your last copy of Amavi.
Action Modifier [49]
10x Aire of Elation
3x Approximation of Loyalty
10x Daring the Dawn
3x Devil-Channel: Throat
16x Freak Drive
3x Neutral Guard
1x Strange Day
3x Those Who Endure Judge
Approximation of Loyalty, Neutral Guard, Those Who Endure Judge, and
Strange Day are included simply to remove blood from Amavi consistently
throughout the turn. Alternate possibilities for losing blood include
going Anarch.
Equipment [16]
9x Reliquary: Akunanse Remains
7x Soul Gem of Etrius
Reliquary increases Amavi's capacity by one, allowing the Soul Gem
combo to go off correctly.
Master [5]
3x Dreams of the Sphinx
1x Elder Library
1x Fragment of the Book of Nod
You will have two turns of transfers (at minimum) before you can begin
your Turbo actions. All of the above masters will help improve your
odds of seeing the combo continue past the first few actions.
Crafted with : Anarch Revolt Deck Builder. [Tue Dec 13 07:08:42 2005]
The Lasombra
Re: Turbo Nkule Galadima
>Equip Reliquary: 8 blood left -1 pool
>Freak Drive: 7 blood left
>The Eldest Command Undeath: 0 Blood left and One of your preys vamps 6
>or under burnt
Unless the Eldest Command Undeath always fails, you are unlikely to
continue with your Turbo turn successfully.
Nkule is 8 capacity.
That allows your prey time to bring out 3 minions of 4 capacity or
less (with you going 4th), possibly 4. It is very unlikely that you
will prey on the weenie deck every time you play the deck.
If you want to Turbo Nkule, you will want to use multiple different
votes and Awe. That way one copy of Delaying Tactics doesn't stop
your turn cold.
I would go with 10 votes, 1 of each, being the following:
Kine Resources Contested
Conservative Agitation
Banishment
Consanguineous Condemnation
Kindred Segregation
Peace Treaty
Year of Fortune
And these three if you choose not to use Embrace:
Anarchist Uprising
Ancilla Empowerment
Domain Challenge
If you do choose to use Embrace, then these three:
Consanguineous Boon
The Eldest Command Undeath
The Final Nights
Loadquo
The Lasombra wrote:
> On 12 Dec 2005 17:20:39 -0800, "Loadquo" <loa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Re: Turbo Nkule Galadima
> >Equip Reliquary: 8 blood left -1 pool
> >Freak Drive: 7 blood left
> >The Eldest Command Undeath: 0 Blood left and One of your preys vamps 6
> >or under burnt
>
> Unless the Eldest Command Undeath always fails, you are unlikely to
> continue with your Turbo turn successfully.
Nkule was going to vote against it before your prey ran out of eligible
minions. I was mainly
using as a way of reducing the number of cards in the combo, the
burning your preys minions was a bit of a side issue. Maybe not the
most efficient forward pressure wise, but that was what the Force of
Will is for.
> Nkule is 8 capacity.
> That allows your prey time to bring out 3 minions of 4 capacity or
> less (with you going 4th), possibly 4. It is very unlikely that you
> will prey on the weenie deck every time you play the deck.
>
> If you want to Turbo Nkule, you will want to use multiple different
> votes and Awe. That way one copy of Delaying Tactics doesn't stop
> your turn cold.
True. I would be tempted to go with Amavi in this situation as the +
bleed on the force of will would add up and the awes will give a bit of
vote push that is needed. Another variant would be to use mob rule
instead (as you would gain more votes that way) and let everyone else
empty themselves of blood if they want to stop the vote.
Daneel
wrote:
> One copy of a card in a deck ensures you will not see it in time to use
> it.
> I see no reason to include 1 copy of any non-unique card, and most
> unique cards that are essential to your strategy should be duplicated.
This statement is pretty much false. If your deck's main strategy relies
on repetitious use of a certain card or cards, then including multiples
is indeed beneficial for the deck. However, 1 of a card that is not part
of the main strategy, for example, is a very valid inclusion in a deck
that can greatly benefit from it.
Some no-brainer non-unique cards that can easily contrubute to a deck's
success even when would include Archon Investigation, Ally-stealing
effects, Location-burning or stealing effect, some permanent resources
for the endgame (like a .44 or Bike), or any conditional effect which
overall will net you a bigger swing when used than the opportunity cost
of having to use a DPA to discard it in games when it is not used
(getting rid of a dead card instead of spending the DPA on optimising
your hand).
There are countless specific examples when a deck I played was enhanced
by adding a single copy of a card to it.
--
Bye,
Daneel
CthuluKitty
>There are countless specific examples when a deck I played was enhanced
>by adding a single copy of a card to it.
Thanks for supporting my viewpoint on this one. I think this question
boils down to a very great extent one of a philosophy of the game.
Many players these days are leaning in the direction of
uber-streamlined decks that are intended to produced reliable results
with limited room for flexibility. In my view, it's much more fun
(yes, fun matters, even in competitive games) and even at times more
effective to be able to surprise other players, and be surprised
yourself.
Daneel
While I don't disagree with this, I also refer to competitive play.
I put 1× Ambrosius, the Ferryman in a Powerbleed deck, and he has
proven to be a worthy inclusion despite the fact that the deck didn't
use retainers, nor had ways to utilise Ambrosius for anything except
to block 0-stealth actions. We're talking about a tier-1 competitive
deck concept, and in a number of games Ambrosious contributed to my
VPs far more than the nth Govern, Conditioning, Seduction, Call of
the Hungry Dead or Deflection would have. Sometimes I had to discard
him for lack of action, pool or (most likely) appropriate environment,
but all in all I never regretted having him in that deck.
In a Malkavian Antitribu stealth bleed deck (another tier 1 competitive
deck concept) 1 put cards like 1× Lunatic Eruption, 1× Patterns in the
Chaos, 1× Restructure. The first two cards actually won me a table
each! I never regretted including these cards in the deck. When they
came up in the right time, they had far greater swing than the 16th
Kindred Spirits would have.
I have numerous examples even just from competitive play.
--
Bye,
Daneel
CthuluKitty
As opposed to games of Jyhad where the players aren't trying to win?
The distinction between casual/serious is, I feel, pejoritive. The game
is always competetive.
In any case, I was arguing from the grounds of competitive
effectiveness as well. Having more interesting games is a possible
side benefit.
>....We're talking about a tier-1 competitive
> deck concept....
Since Jyhad is a multiplayer game I'm really not sure that such a thing
as "tiers" can be said to exist. A deck that one might consider "tier
1" at some given event might be crap in a different metagame. Of
course, some concepts are just bad, but among those that "work" I think
it's very hard to pick the best ones indepedent of some specific
metagame.
I'm not meaning to disagree with your point here (since I completely
agree with it). I just have problems with some of the terminology.