[LSJ] Venenation, Mask and Change of Target
Andy Brown
This came up yesterday in the tournament in Watford, and everyone just
wanted official clarification on the rulings.
My deck (and Adrian Deacons) was based around corrupting minions using
I bleed
U block
I play venenation, mask, venenation, mask......venenation, change of
target.
No-one had a problem with this, but in order to try to oust my prey, and
leaving me in a position that would have lost me a vampire,
after playing venenation, mask I failed to draw another venenation
or change of target. I asked Dave if I could then use stealth, and
he ruled that I could. Was this OK?
If not, would the ruling still have held that I couldn't use superior
mask for +1 stealth either?
If I could use the stealth, would I be able to leave the corruption
counter on the minion, or as it is now not blocked, have to remove it?
Thanks
Andy
VEKN Setite Ruler of Cambridge
Halcyan 2
>leaving me in a position that would have lost me a vampire,
>after playing venenation, mask I failed to draw another venenation
>or change of target. I asked Dave if I could then use stealth, and
>he ruled that I could. Was this OK?
I don't think so. Venenation (and Change of Target) are used when you have
already been blocked. By that time, it's too late to try to add additional
stealth. (If you're still playing stealth, you haven't been blocked yet and
can't play Venenation yet).
>If not, would the ruling still have held that I couldn't use superior
>mask for +1 stealth either?
Correct. "Blocking is required by explicit card text on Venenation."
(From: LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com)
Subject: Re: Coupla Questions about Setite corruption [LSJ]
Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad
View this article only
Date: 2001-08-03 07:48:50 PST )
>If I could use the stealth, would I be able to leave the corruption
>counter on the minion, or as it is now not blocked, have to remove it?
Moot. You can't use the Venenation until you've been blocked (which is after
the time you can play additional stealth, assuming the action is continued via
Form of Mist, etc.).
Halcyan 2
LSJ
>
> >No-one had a problem with this, but in order to try to oust my prey, and
> >leaving me in a position that would have lost me a vampire,
> >after playing venenation, mask I failed to draw another venenation
> >or change of target. I asked Dave if I could then use stealth, and
> >he ruled that I could. Was this OK?
>
> I don't think so. Venenation (and Change of Target) are used when you have
> already been blocked. By that time, it's too late to try to add additional
> stealth. (If you're still playing stealth, you haven't been blocked yet and
> can't play Venenation yet).
Correct.
> >If not, would the ruling still have held that I couldn't use superior
> >mask for +1 stealth either?
>
> Correct. "Blocking is required by explicit card text on Venenation."
Correct.
> (From: LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com)
> Subject: Re: Coupla Questions about Setite corruption [LSJ]
> Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad
> View this article only
> Date: 2001-08-03 07:48:50 PST )
>
> >If I could use the stealth, would I be able to leave the corruption
> >counter on the minion, or as it is now not blocked, have to remove it?
>
> Moot. You can't use the Venenation until you've been blocked (which is after
> the time you can play additional stealth, assuming the action is [not]
> continued via Form of Mist, etc.).
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Marty
Does this mean I can sing the 'I told you so' song now :)
This also came up yesterday - somebody tried to Cloak another of their
minions actions from torpor. Surely this isn't allowed, right?
Marty
LSJ
> This also came up yesterday - somebody tried to Cloak another of their
> minions actions from torpor. Surely this isn't allowed, right?
A ready vampire can cloak a torporous acting vampire.
A torporous vampire cannot cloak anyone but himself.
CurtAdams
>My deck (and Adrian Deacons) was based around corrupting minions >using
>I bleed
>U block
>I play venenation, mask, venenation, mask......venenation, change of
>target.
I think this runs into legalistic aspects of the current Mask wording.
To Mask, a minion must be able to have legally played all previous
modifiers. So after venenation #2, nobody can perform a further
Mask as nobody can have legally played 2 venenations.
Curt Adams (curt...@aol.com)
"It is better to be wrong than to be vague" - Freeman Dyson
LSJ
>
> a...@sanger.ac.uk writes:
>
> >My deck (and Adrian Deacons) was based around corrupting minions >using
> >I bleed
> >U block
> >I play venenation, mask, venenation, mask......venenation, change of
> >target.
>
> I think this runs into legalistic aspects of the current Mask wording.
> To Mask, a minion must be able to have legally played all previous
> modifiers. So after venenation #2, nobody can perform a further
> Mask as nobody can have legally played 2 venenations.
No problem there.
The wording of the ruling is "any", not "all".
There are no action modifiers played that could not have been played
by the Masking minion. He coul've played any of the Venenations
since he didn't play any of the other Venenations.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Luis Duarte
> > I think this runs into legalistic aspects of the current Mask wording.
> > To Mask, a minion must be able to have legally played all previous
> > modifiers. So after venenation #2, nobody can perform a further
> > Mask as nobody can have legally played 2 venenations.
> No problem there.
> The wording of the ruling is "any", not "all".
> There are no action modifiers played that could not have been played
> by the Masking minion. He coul've played any of the Venenations
> since he didn't play any of the other Venenations.
The following situation:
Minion A: Govern the Unaligned, Command of the Beast (3 bleed)
Opposing Minion Blocks
Minion B: Mask1kFaces, Command of the Beast (4 bleed,1 stealth)
Opposing Minion adds 1 intercept
Minion C: Mask1kFaces, Command of the Beast (5 bleed,2 stealth)
Opposing Minion adds 1 intercept
Minion C: Elder Impersonation unblock, Conditioning (8 bleed,2 stealth)
Is this legal?
.- Luis Duarte
- - -
Powerbase:Lisbon-[http://planeta.clix.pt/vampire]
--
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LSJ
> Minion A: Govern the Unaligned, Command of the Beast (3 bleed)
That's "4 bleed" unless the actor starts with a -1 bleed (Gangrel
Atavism, anyone?)
I'll also assume that CotB is being played at superior each time...
> Opposing Minion [attempts to block]
> Minion B: Mask1kFaces, Command of the Beast (4 bleed,1 stealth)
> Opposing Minion adds 1 intercept
> Minion C: Mask1kFaces, Command of the Beast (5 bleed,2 stealth)
> Opposing Minion adds 1 intercept
> Minion C: Elder Impersonation unblock, Conditioning (8 bleed,2 stealth)
>
> Is this legal?
Yes, assuming you've got that many DOM/OBF vampires ready and
untapped waiting to Mask the action.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.